---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/24/08: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:09 AM - Re: Oil Leak (John Porter) 2. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Oil Leak (linn Walters) 3. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Oil Leak (Paul Rice) 4. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Oil Leak (rv4ross) 5. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Oil Leak (Paul Rice) 6. 08:37 AM - IMC - What If??? Analysis (Valovich, Paul) 7. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Oil Leak (linn Walters) 8. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Oil Leak (Charles Kuss) 9. 08:53 AM - RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? (Matt Dralle) 10. 09:24 AM - Re: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? (Terry Watson) 11. 09:32 AM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (HCRV6@comcast.net) 12. 10:24 AM - Re: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? (Michael W Stewart) 13. 10:50 AM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (Tim Bryan) 14. 11:02 AM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (bert murillo) 15. 11:33 AM - Re: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? (Carlos Hernandez) 16. 11:51 AM - Mud Shield - was Wheel pants too low? (Ralph E. Capen) 17. 02:33 PM - on wheel pants (bert murillo) 18. 02:45 PM - Re: on wheel pants (Carl Froehlich) 19. 02:50 PM - Re: IMC - What If??? Analysis (Bruce Gray) 20. 03:22 PM - Re: IMC - What If??? Analysis (SteinAir, Inc.) 21. 04:05 PM - Re: IMC - What If??? Analysis (Bruce Gray) 22. 05:54 PM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (HCRV6@comcast.net) 23. 11:11 PM - Re: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? (Dan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:08 AM PST US From: "John Porter" Subject: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak Paul, Yep, that's exactly what I'm getting. I have a Lycoming AEIO-360 and it's just enough to get my attention. I'm going to pull my pump as well and use some permetex on it and we torque everything. I can't stand seeing oil on the outside of something. (Now when the new "radial" RV comes out, that will be another story, ha,ha) Oh, Van swore me to secrecy on that.................darn. Thanks for the input, glad (I guess) that I'm not the only one with this issue. John N802RJ "Rockin' Robin" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:34 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak OK guys ...... where exactly is the oil coming out??? Lead me to it just like a progressive taxi ;-) Linn do not archive John Porter wrote: > Paul, > Yep, that's exactly what I'm getting. I have a Lycoming AEIO-360 > and it's just enough to get my attention. I'm going to pull my pump > as well and use some permetex on it and we torque everything. I can't > stand seeing oil on the outside of something. (Now when the new > "radial" RV comes out, that will be another story, ha,ha) Oh, Van > swore me to secrecy on that.................darn. > Thanks for the input, glad (I guess) that I'm not the only one with > this issue. > > John > N802RJ > "Rockin' Robin" > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:07 AM PST US From: Paul Rice Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak The oil leaks out between the parts of the oil pump itself=2C not the flang between the pump and the engine. The pump is made up of three sections=2C the upper is has screw head bolts attaching it to the middle section=2C an d the lower has hex heads with rubber gaskets between. They go thru a comp ression ring around the bottom=2C I can remember the top right now=2C so yo u can only tighten them up so much. I seems over tightening will just crus h the rubber gasket out of the sides causing more of a leak. I don't know about taking it apart and using the permetex=2C I really don't want to take my pump apart if I can help it. Paul Rice RV8 100 hours Flying Siren> Date: Wed=2C 24 Sep 2008 10:20:10 -0400> From: pitts_pilot@be llsouth.net> To: rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak> > OK guys ...... where exactly is the oil coming out??? Lead me to it > ju st like a progressive taxi =3B-)> Linn> do not archive> > John Porter wrote :> > Paul=2C> > Yep=2C that's exactly what I'm getting. I have a Lycoming A EIO-360 > > and it's just enough to get my attention. I'm going to pull my pump > > as well and use some permetex on it and we torque everything. I ca n't > > stand seeing oil on the outside of something. (Now when the new > > "radial" RV comes out=2C that will be another story=2C ha=2Cha) Oh=2C Van > > swore me to secrecy on that.................darn.> > Thanks for the inp ut=2C glad (I guess) that I'm not the only one with > > this issue.> > > > ====================> > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:36 AM PST US From: "rv4ross" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak Paul, You mean fuel pump and not oil pump, right? Ross Scroggs RV4 tail and wings done waiting on Fus kit Locust Grove, GA. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Rice To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak The oil leaks out between the parts of the oil pump itself, not the flang between the pump and the engine. The pump is made up of three sections, the upper is has screw head bolts attaching it to the middle section, and the lower has hex heads with rubber gaskets between. They go thru a compression ring around the bottom, I can remember the top right now, so you can only tighten them up so much. I seems over tightening will just crush the rubber gasket out of the sides causing more of a leak. I don't know about taking it apart and using the permetex, I really don't want to take my pump apart if I can help it. Paul Rice RV8 100 hours Flying Siren > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:20:10 -0400 > From: pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak > > > OK guys ...... where exactly is the oil coming out??? Lead me to it > just like a progressive taxi ;-) > Linn > do not archive > > John Porter wrote: > > Paul, > > Yep, that's exactly what I'm getting. I have a Lycoming AEIO-360 > > and it's just enough to get my attention. I'm going to pull my pump > > as well and use some permetex on it and we torque everything. I can't > > stand seeing oil on the outside of something. (Now when the new > > "radial" RV comes out, that will be another story, ha,ha) Oh, Van > > swore me to secrecy on that.................darn. > > Thanks for the input, glad (I guess) that I'm not the only one with > > this issue. > > > > John > > N802RJ > > "Rockin' Robin" > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:50 AM PST US From: Paul Rice Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak Sorry guys=2C yes I mean the fuel pump not the oil pump. From: rv4ross@charter.netTo: rv-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil LeakDate: Wed=2C 24 Sep 2008 10:49:56 -0400 Paul=2C You mean fuel pump and not oil pump=2C right? Ross Scroggs RV4 tail and wings done waiting on Fus kit Locust Grove=2C GA. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Rice Sent: Wednesday=2C September 24=2C 2008 10:43 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak The oil leaks out between the parts of the oil pump itself=2C not the flang between the pump and the engine. The pump is made up of three sections=2C the upper is has screw head bolts attaching it to the middle section=2C an d the lower has hex heads with rubber gaskets between. They go thru a comp ression ring around the bottom=2C I can remember the top right now=2C so yo u can only tighten them up so much. I seems over tightening will just crus h the rubber gasket out of the sides causing more of a leak. I don't know about taking it apart and using the permetex=2C I really don't want to take my pump apart if I can help it. Paul RiceRV8 100 hoursFlying Siren> Dat e: Wed=2C 24 Sep 2008 10:20:10 -0400> From: pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> To: rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak> > --> RV-List me ssage posted by: linn Walters > > OK guys ...... where exactly is the oil coming out??? Lead me to it > just like a progres sive taxi =3B-)> Linn> do not archive> > John Porter wrote:> > Paul=2C> > Y ep=2C that's exactly what I'm getting. I have a Lycoming AEIO-360 > > and i t's just enough to get my attention. I'm going to pull my pump > > as well and use some permetex on it and we torque everything. I can't > > stand see ing oil on the outside of something. (Now when the new > > "radial" RV come s out=2C that will be another story=2C ha=2Cha) Oh=2C Van > > swore me to s ecrecy on that.................darn.> > Thanks for the input=2C glad (I gue ss) that I'm not the only one with > > this issue.> > > > John> > N802RJ> > "Rockin' Robin"> > *> >> >> > *> > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:38 AM PST US From: "Valovich, Paul" Subject: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis FWIW - I spent a lot of time analyzing panel options for my -8A, and so far have found no major issues with the conclusions I reached. Here's a summar y: Requirement 1: IMC capability (if I choose to go there) - including ILS. ( Pilot instrument experience not an issue - I'm a retired Naval aviator). Requirement 2: Electric panel - no vacuum pumps. Requirement 3: Multiple redundancy - fidelity can vary. Final instrument configuration: AFS-3500 with AOA; TruTrac ADI II; Sl 40; Garmin 496; ICOM Radio; GTX-327; PMA-7000B; Separate altimeter, airspeed, V SI; Heated pitot tube. Electrical System: B&C 40 amp alternator; SD-8 alternator; self-contained b ackup batteries in 3500 and 496; regular ship's battery. In IMC - What ifs? (Normal ops - everything works and power is from main bu s) 1. AFS-3500 failure - use ADI II for attitude info; if unsure of atti tude, select a heading and altitude hold mode. Use AS / Altimeter / VSI ste am gages. 2. AFS-3500 and ADI II failure - use rough attitude functions of 496 to get back to approximate level flight (a real emergency) 3. AFS-3500, ADI II and 496 failure - partial panel with the AS / Alt and VSI; but realistically, sometimes it just ain't your day. 4. Alternator failure - endurance bus powered by SD-8 (3500, SL-40, A DI II are on it) 5. Alternator and SD-8 failure - endurance bus powered by main batter y 6. Alternator, SD-8 and main battery failure - 3500 and 496 powered b y internal backup batteries 7. Alternator, SD-8, main battery and backup battery failures - see ( 3) above 8. Pitot static failure - 496 and AOA attitude reference (if AOA is below stall you are at least somewhat in control and may have additional ti me to sort things out) 9. Icing - Get the hell out of there asap Panel configuration is a very personal decision. However, some version of t he "What ifs???" should be used in every analysis. The above is just one gu y's opinion. Be interested in hearing from folks who think I'm off on a tan gent or missed something. Booger N192NM Reserved - Again ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:40 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak I went out to the shop and looked at the pump on my IO-540. There are four sections, the top, a 1/4" ring, a 1/2" ring with the fuel ports in it, and the bottom. There are diaphragms separating the four parts. The 1/4" ring is the flow path for fuel if that diaphragm cracks, and oil if the other one cracks. If the oil is seeping out next to the diaphragm (the top one), that would indicate loose fasteners, or a deterioration of the diaphragm itself. Permatex may 'fix' the latter ..... for a while, but only prolongs the inevitable ..... getting it fixed. My vote would be to try and tighten the screws on the top flange to see if that eliminates the leak. All this supposes that the leak is where you think it is!!! Linn do not archive Paul Rice wrote: > The oil leaks out between the parts of the oil pump itself, not the > flang between the pump and the engine. The pump is made up of three > sections, the upper is has screw head bolts attaching it to the middle > section, and the lower has hex heads with rubber gaskets between. > They go thru a compression ring around the bottom, I can remember the > top right now, so you can only tighten them up so much. I seems over > tightening will just crush the rubber gasket out of the sides causing > more of a leak. I don't know about taking it apart and using the > permetex, I really don't want to take my pump apart if I can help it. > > Paul Rice > RV8 100 hours > Flying Siren ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:45 AM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak Paul, Those aren't "rubber gaskets". They are the rubber diaphragms which do the pumping of the fuel. If the screws which retain the sections are reasonably tight, it means that one of the diaphragms has failed. In that case you will need a new or rebuilt fuel pump. Charlie Kuss --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Paul Rice wrote: > From: Paul Rice > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Oil Leak > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 10:43 AM > The oil leaks out between the parts of the oil pump itself, > not the flange between the pump and the engine. The pump is > made up of three sections, the upper is has screw head bolts > attaching it to the middle section, and the lower has hex > heads with rubber gaskets between. They go thru a > compression ring around the bottom, I can remember the top > right now, so you can only tighten them up so much. I seems > over tightening will just crush the rubber gasket out of the > sides causing more of a leak. I don't know about taking > it apart and using the permetex, I really don't want to > take my pump apart if I can help it. > > Paul Rice > RV8 100 hours > Flying Siren> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:20:10 -0400> > From: pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> To: > rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Oil > > > OK guys ...... > where exactly is the oil coming out??? Lead me to it > > just like a progressive taxi ;-)> Linn> do not > archive> > John Porter wrote:> > Paul,> > > Yep, that's exactly what I'm getting. I have a > Lycoming AEIO-360 > > and it's just enough to get > my attention. I'm going to pull my pump > > as > well and use some permetex on it and we torque everything. I > can't > > stand seeing oil on the outside of > something. (Now when the new > > "radial" RV > comes out, that will be another story, ha,ha) Oh, Van > > > swore me to secrecy on that.................darn.> > > Thanks for the input, glad (I guess) that I'm not > the only one with > > this issue.> > > > > ====================> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:11 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? Greetings, I sat in a friend's RV-8 this weekend and was testing out the various ergonomic aspects. One thing that struck me was the pilot's control stick placement. It seemed a bit far away and definitely way too low. The top of the stick cleared the bottom of the instrument panel by maybe an inch or less, so it was definitely about as long as it could be. The seat cushion didn't seem abnormally thick. When I ordered my seats from Classic Aero Designs, one of the questions they asked me was if I had the "Curved Stick Option". I didn't think about it much at the time but now I'm intrigued. Is this something that could give me more stick height without impacting the instrument panel? Does Van's sell it? Part number? Pros and cons? Pictures? Thanks, Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res.) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:27 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? And another thing! Mike Robbins has an interesting and apparently very functional stick grip offset that I think was built by Rocket builder Larry James. Either of them could probably tell you about it or maybe send a photo. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:53 AM Subject: RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? Greetings, I sat in a friend's RV-8 this weekend and was testing out the various ergonomic aspects. One thing that struck me was the pilot's control stick placement. It seemed a bit far away and definitely way too low. The top of the stick cleared the bottom of the instrument panel by maybe an inch or less, so it was definitely about as long as it could be. The seat cushion didn't seem abnormally thick. When I ordered my seats from Classic Aero Designs, one of the questions they asked me was if I had the "Curved Stick Option". I didn't think about it much at the time but now I'm intrigued. Is this something that could give me more stick height without impacting the instrument panel? Does Van's sell it? Part number? Pros and cons? Pictures? Thanks, Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res.) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:14 AM PST US From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? Walt, Did you install a bulkhead in the rear half of the wheel pants to prevent crud from collecting back there? -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, flying - 517 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: rveighta > > This seems to be a universal problem with the Van's tail draggers. My 8 is the > same; I taxi across about 100' of grass to get to my airpark's runway and I get > a collection of grass inside the rear half of the pants everytime. > > Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? From: Michael W Stewart Matt, RV Woody 4606 107th Street Mukilter, WA 98275 ATTN Todd Rudberg This is the guy that was making them for builders, usually in batches. Dont know if this is still the case. I have attached the low res drawing. Yo u can see the dimentions. Best, Mike, (See attached file: bentstick.jpg) Matt Dralle To Sent by: rv-list@matronics.com owner-rv-list-ser cc ver@matronics.com Subj ect RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control 09/24/2008 11:52 Stick" Option...? AM Please respond to rv-list@matronics .com Greetings, I sat in a friend's RV-8 this weekend and was testing out the various ergonomic aspects. One thing that struck me was the pilot's control st ick placement. It seemed a bit far away and definitely way too low. The t op of the stick cleared the bottom of the instrument panel by maybe an inc h or less, so it was definitely about as long as it could be. The seat cush ion didn't seem abnormally thick. When I ordered my seats from Classic Aero Designs, one of the questions they asked me was if I had the "Curved Stick Option". I didn't think a bout it much at the time but now I'm intrigued. Is this something that coul d give me more stick height without impacting the instrument panel? Does Van's sell it? Part number? Pros and cons? Pictures? Thanks, Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res.) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:11 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? Interesting, what tail wheel system are you using? I understand there are some available that raise the tail slightly and maybe that would be enough to correct it also. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Danielson Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 6:59 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? My wheel pants also had the same problem, couldn=92t clear the angle on the bottom of my door. I ended up always backing my plane in by lifting the tail to clear. When I finally wore the original tire out, I replaced them with retreads and the tires just happen to be taller by =BD=94 to =BE=94. This allowed the rear of the wheel pants to clear the angle. John L. Danielson _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard McBride Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? George, My -8 wheel pants are the same way. No way will a 2x4 fit behind the tire. Mine seem to be lower in the back compared to most others I've looked at. I have flown on grass strips many, many times with no problem. The only issue I have is getting into hangars that have steel angle installed on the floor as a door track. The back of my pant can't clear these tracks without putting down some type of ramp. I've scarred the bottom rear of my pants numerous times. Rick McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: George Inman 204 287 8334 Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? I installed the wheel pants on my RV-8 per Van's directions,but I think they may be too low. I cannot get a 2X4 underneath the back for a wheel chock when the plane is down on the tail. I will be using a grass strip so have concerns.Do others have their wheel pants this low? -- George H. Inman http://www.matronics.nbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com nbsp; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ==== =========== http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:06 AM PST US From: bert murillo Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? Harry::: - What is this??? please tell me I should have done that?- I did not see th at on the plans.... I have the rv6a,-- please explain... I am now worried I am missing that?? how is it done etc... - bert --- On Wed, 9/24/08, HCRV6@comcast.net wrote: From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? Walt, Did you install a bulkhead in the rear half of the wheel pants to prevent c rud from collecting back there? -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, flying - 517 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: rveighta > > This seems to be a universal problem with the Van's tail draggers. My 8 is the > same; I taxi across about 100' of grass to get to my airpark's runway and I get > a collection of grass inside the rear half of the pants everytime. > > Walt Shipley =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:16 AM PST US From: Carlos Hernandez Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? Yeah he's not doing it any more. Here's what he says from his web site www.rvwoody.com /"LAST BATCH EVER: March 1, 2007. Due to customer complaints about the six week lead time, this service is terminated. If you want a stick done, better get it to me by March 1. Sticks received after March 1 will be returned to sender." /Bummer cause I was wanting one when I get there in my build./ / Carlos in AZ Michael W Stewart wrote: > > Matt, > RV Woody > 4606 107th Street > Mukilter, WA 98275 > ATTN Todd Rudberg > > This is the guy that was making them for builders, usually in batches. > Dont know if this is still the case. I have attached the low res > drawing. You can see the dimentions. > Best, > Mike > > /(See attached file: bentstick.jpg)/ > > > Inactive hide details for Matt Dralle ---09/24/2008 12:31:33 PM-----> > > > *Matt Dralle * > Sent by: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > 09/24/2008 11:52 AM > Please respond to > rv-list@matronics.com > > > > To > > rv-list@matronics.com > > cc > > > Subject > > RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? > > > > > > > Greetings, > > I sat in a friend's RV-8 this weekend and was testing out the various > ergonomic aspects. One thing that struck me was the pilot's control > stick placement. It seemed a bit far away and definitely way too low. > The top of the stick cleared the bottom of the instrument panel by > maybe an inch or less, so it was definitely about as long as it could > be. The seat cushion didn't seem abnormally thick. > > When I ordered my seats from Classic Aero Designs, one of the > questions they asked me was if I had the "Curved Stick Option". I > didn't think about it much at the time but now I'm intrigued. Is this > something that could give me more stick height without impacting the > instrument panel? Does Van's sell it? Part number? Pros and cons? > Pictures? > > Thanks, > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res.) > > > ==================================== > tor?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ==================================== > FORUMS - > tp://forums.matronics.com > ==================================== > Site - > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ==================================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Checked by AVG. > -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:30 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RV-List: Mud Shield - was Wheel pants too low? I did it for all three of mine too - mine are from SamJames they had explicit instructions to do so - not as good on how though..... Here's what I did: Lay up three layers of BID on alternating angles. Cut out rough shape so it fits one inch behind the tire. Trim corners so it fits tightly all the way around. Using two layers of BID to glue the edges in place. Drill a small hole on the bottom of the pant behind the shield to allow pressure to bleed off and condensation to drain. Have a cold one..... -----Original Message----- >From: bert murillo >Sent: Sep 24, 2008 1:59 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? > >Harry::: > >What is this??? please tell me I should have done that? I did not see that >on the plans.... I have the rv6a, please explain... I am now worried I am >missing that?? how is it done etc... > >bert > >--- On Wed, 9/24/08, HCRV6@comcast.net wrote: > >From: HCRV6@comcast.net >Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 12:31 PM > > >Walt, > >Did you install a bulkhead in the rear half of the wheel pants to prevent crud >from collecting back there? > >-- >Harry Crosby >RV-6 N16CX, flying - 517 hours > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: rveighta >> >> This seems to be a universal problem with the Van's tail draggers. My >8 is the >> same; I taxi across about 100' of grass to get to my airpark's >runway and I get >> a collection of grass inside the rear half of the pants everytime. >> >> Walt Shipley > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:11 PM PST US From: bert murillo Subject: RV-List: on wheel pants Hello: - I just received the new brackets, for the nose geat wheel pants, from Van's Now the big question, for some one very talented.... only.... - The pants I have are the old type non transparents, and they are painted wh ite of course... - How AQm I going to measured?, some kind of jig magic.. etc... to align the new brackets, in order to drill, and install ???? - I only came with one solution, but I am sure, there must be an easier one.. .. I do not want to have littles wholes all over, then I have to patch them up .. - One shot, and a precise one, lt has to be.....ANY ONE WANTS TO TAKE THIS CHALLENGE/// - -Thanks for those brave ones, that respond... - Bert - rv6a - do not archive=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:40 PM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV-List: on wheel pants Sand the gel coat (and paint) off in the area where the brackets will be attached. Attach the brackets to the nose gear fork. Using a bright light on the inside of the pant you will now be able to see though the fiberglass to drill into the bracket holes. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (450 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bert murillo Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:32 PM Subject: RV-List: on wheel pants Hello: I just received the new brackets, for the nose geat wheel pants, from Van's Now the big question, for some one very talented.... only.... The pants I have are the old type non transparents, and they are painted white of course... How AQm I going to measured?, some kind of jig magic.. etc... to align the new brackets, in order to drill, and install ???? I only came with one solution, but I am sure, there must be an easier one... I do not want to have littles wholes all over, then I have to patch them up.. One shot, and a precise one, lt has to be.....ANY ONE WANTS TO TAKE THIS CHALLENGE/// Thanks for those brave ones, that respond... Bert rv6a do not archive D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:04 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis To play the devils advocate, You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More than likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving you false information. What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - several times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical systems and their backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all EFIS certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put out false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only displays quasi pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down commands. Now, the big question is - are you willing to bet your life that you addled and confused brain is going to be able to sort out the conflicting and non standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? Needle, ball, and airspeed tie breaker? I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC and am well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis FWIW - I spent a lot of time analyzing panel options for my -8A, and so far have found no major issues with the conclusions I reached. Here's a summary: Requirement 1: IMC capability (if I choose to go there) - including ILS. (Pilot instrument experience not an issue - I'm a retired Naval aviator). Requirement 2: Electric panel - no vacuum pumps. Requirement 3: Multiple redundancy - fidelity can vary. Final instrument configuration: AFS-3500 with AOA; TruTrac ADI II; Sl 40; Garmin 496; ICOM Radio; GTX-327; PMA-7000B; Separate altimeter, airspeed, VSI; Heated pitot tube. Electrical System: B&C 40 amp alternator; SD-8 alternator; self-contained backup batteries in 3500 and 496; regular ship's battery. In IMC - What ifs? (Normal ops - everything works and power is from main bus) 1. AFS-3500 failure - use ADI II for attitude info; if unsure of attitude, select a heading and altitude hold mode. Use AS / Altimeter / VSI steam gages. 2. AFS-3500 and ADI II failure - use rough attitude functions of 496 to get back to approximate level flight (a real emergency) 3. AFS-3500, ADI II and 496 failure - partial panel with the AS / Alt and VSI; but realistically, sometimes it just ain't your day. 4. Alternator failure - endurance bus powered by SD-8 (3500, SL-40, ADI II are on it) 5. Alternator and SD-8 failure - endurance bus powered by main battery 6. Alternator, SD-8 and main battery failure - 3500 and 496 powered by internal backup batteries 7. Alternator, SD-8, main battery and backup battery failures - see (3) above 8. Pitot static failure - 496 and AOA attitude reference (if AOA is below stall you are at least somewhat in control and may have additional time to sort things out) 9. Icing - Get the hell out of there asap Panel configuration is a very personal decision. However, some version of the "What ifs???" should be used in every analysis. The above is just one guy's opinion. Be interested in hearing from folks who think I'm off on a tangent or missed something. Booger N192NM Reserved - Again ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:58 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis MessageHi Bruce, You know I agree with you historically on some of your points, but I have to jump in here just a little bit - nothing personal, just want to re-direct a few facts. Your understanding of the TruTrak ADI is not just a little bit off....it's just flat wrong. Who told you it uses GPS information for vertical information? They use GPS to show a track in the little LCD window...it has nothing to do with the flight display. You do of course realize that it has solid state gyros inside of it and shows instantaneous pitch and bank information as well? Naturally you also know that it has a Pitot and Static connection on the back of it to sense pitot/satic info? Of course some of the EFIS mfgrs out there use GPS as an aiding function to offset the accelerometer drift, etc.., but I'm not aware of any other than the little "instrument page" of the Garmin handhelds that do anything of the sort. Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate on what should be used when and where nor if the ADI is for you or not...just want to make sure people don't think it uses GPS to display any flight information. I do agree that there is a BIG question on lower cost EFISes knowing whether they are ill or not. The certified stuff has a ton of software in it for that very purpose, and will paint a big red "X" over any portion of the instrument it thinks doesn't has perfect information. Most of the really low cost EFISes will not alert you to anything being wrong, because the EFIS itself doesn't know it's sick. It's what I try to tell people over and over. There is a MUCH larger difference between EFISes than just plain cost. There is a lot of other unseen functionality that comes with the higher priced units other than their name on the faceplate. Of course every EFIS mfgr will tell you their stuff is the same as the certified Garmin or what is in the Boeings while standing in the booth at OSH (I actually heard a rep from a low cost EFIS mfgr repeatedly tell people their stuff was as good or better than the Garmin certified stuff)....hopefully people realize that's just not the case and couldn't be farther from the truth. Does that mean the low cost EFISes are bad? Heck no! They are a marvel of technology as long as you use them for what they are. FYI...most of the heavy iron is going to solid state peanut backups as well....but they aren't anything like our low cost EFISes (nor the price)! Again, nothing personal and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with premise in general, just some of the details. The whole "tie breaker" discussion gets really interesting really fast in some of these configurations. There are a number of historical crashes of airliners because of the fight between pilot/copilot and the "tie breaker" of instruments indications. Overall I could ramble on and on about this stuff, as well as the whole AHRS theory, but in the end we're all entitled to our own opinions. Like I said, no necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just putting out a few facts. Cheers, Stein -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:50 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis To play the devils advocate, You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More than likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving you false information. What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - several times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical systems and their backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all EFIS certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put out false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only displays quasi pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down commands. Now, the big question is - are you willing to bet your life that you addled and confused brain is going to be able to sort out the conflicting and non standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? Needle, ball, and airspeed tie breaker? I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC and am well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. Bruce www.Glasair.org ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:47 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis Hmmm, I could be wrong but.... The TruTrak website says the roll is instantaneous gyro and the pitch is enhanced VSI. Perhaps we're both right. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, Inc. Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:22 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis Hi Bruce, You know I agree with you historically on some of your points, but I have to jump in here just a little bit - nothing personal, just want to re-direct a few facts. Your understanding of the TruTrak ADI is not just a little bit off....it's just flat wrong. Who told you it uses GPS information for vertical information? They use GPS to show a track in the little LCD window...it has nothing to do with the flight display. You do of course realize that it has solid state gyros inside of it and shows instantaneous pitch and bank information as well? Naturally you also know that it has a Pitot and Static connection on the back of it to sense pitot/satic info? Of course some of the EFIS mfgrs out there use GPS as an aiding function to offset the accelerometer drift, etc.., but I'm not aware of any other than the little "instrument page" of the Garmin handhelds that do anything of the sort. Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate on what should be used when and where nor if the ADI is for you or not...just want to make sure people don't think it uses GPS to display any flight information. I do agree that there is a BIG question on lower cost EFISes knowing whether they are ill or not. The certified stuff has a ton of software in it for that very purpose, and will paint a big red "X" over any portion of the instrument it thinks doesn't has perfect information. Most of the really low cost EFISes will not alert you to anything being wrong, because the EFIS itself doesn't know it's sick. It's what I try to tell people over and over. There is a MUCH larger difference between EFISes than just plain cost. There is a lot of other unseen functionality that comes with the higher priced units other than their name on the faceplate. Of course every EFIS mfgr will tell you their stuff is the same as the certified Garmin or what is in the Boeings while standing in the booth at OSH (I actually heard a rep from a low cost EFIS mfgr repeatedly tell people their stuff was as good or better than the Garmin certified stuff)....hopefully people realize that's just not the case and couldn't be farther from the truth. Does that mean the low cost EFISes are bad? Heck no! They are a marvel of technology as long as you use them for what they are. FYI...most of the heavy iron is going to solid state peanut backups as well....but they aren't anything like our low cost EFISes (nor the price)! Again, nothing personal and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with premise in general, just some of the details. The whole "tie breaker" discussion gets really interesting really fast in some of these configurations. There are a number of historical crashes of airliners because of the fight between pilot/copilot and the "tie breaker" of instruments indications. Overall I could ramble on and on about this stuff, as well as the whole AHRS theory, but in the end we're all entitled to our own opinions. Like I said, no necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just putting out a few facts. Cheers, Stein -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:50 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis To play the devils advocate, You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More than likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving you false information. What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - several times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical systems and their backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all EFIS certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put out false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only displays quasi pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down commands. Now, the big question is - are you willing to bet your life that you addled and confused brain is going to be able to sort out the conflicting and non standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? Needle, ball, and airspeed tie breaker? I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC and am well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. Bruce www.Glasair.org ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:38 PM PST US From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:43 PM PST US From: Dan Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? I wanted one of the bent stick too,-I e-mailed him about a year ago, with no response?? I still want one, Dan --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Carlos Hernandez wrote: From: Carlos Hernandez Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? Yeah he's not doing it any more. Here's what he says from his web site www.rvwoody.com /"LAST BATCH EVER: March 1, 2007. Due to customer complaints about the six week lead time, this service is terminated. If you want a stick done, better get it to me by March 1. Sticks received after March 1 will be returned to sender." /Bummer cause I was wanting one when I get there in my build./ / Carlos in AZ Michael W Stewart wrote: > > Matt, > RV Woody > 4606 107th Street > Mukilter, WA 98275 > ATTN Todd Rudberg > > This is the guy that was making them for builders, usually in batches. > Dont know if this is still the case. I have attached the low res > drawing. You can see the dimentions. > Best, > Mike > > /(See attached file: bentstick.jpg)/ > > > Inactive hide details for Matt Dralle ---09/24/2008 12:31:33 PM-----> > > > *Matt Dralle * > Sent by: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > 09/24/2008 11:52 AM > Please respond to > rv-list@matronics.com > > > > To > > rv-list@matronics.com > > cc > > > Subject > > RV-List: RV-8 "Curved Control Stick" Option...? > > > > > > > Greetings, > > I sat in a friend's RV-8 this weekend and was testing out the various > ergonomic aspects. One thing that struck me was the pilot's control > stick placement. It seemed a bit far away and definitely way too low. > The top of the stick cleared the bottom of the instrument panel by > maybe an inch or less, so it was definitely about as long as it could > be. The seat cushion didn't seem abnormally thick. > > When I ordered my seats from Classic Aero Designs, one of the > questions they asked me was if I had the "Curved Stick Option". I > didn't think about it much at the time but now I'm intrigued. Is this > something that could give me more stick height without impacting the > instrument panel? Does Van's sell it? Part number? Pros and cons? > Pictures? > > Thanks, > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res.) > > > ======================== ============ > tor?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ======================== ============ > FORUMS - > tp://forums.matronics.com > ======================== ============ > Site - > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ======================== ============ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Checked by AVG. > -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. 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