---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/29/08: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:50 AM - Re: IMC - What If??? (N395V) 2. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: IMC - What If??? (Bruce Gray) 3. 06:32 AM - Running AOA tubing in RV-6A (Don Mack) 4. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: rivets working (Jack Hilditch) 5. 07:33 AM - RV-6 / 6a kits for sale (Scott Kuebler) 6. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: IMC - What If??? (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_W?=) 7. 07:46 AM - Re: Save me from UGLY! (David Schaefer) 8. 07:49 AM - Re: IMC - What If??? (Valovich, Paul) 9. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: rivets working (mr.gsun@gmail.com) 10. 08:37 AM - Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A (Ralph E. Capen) 11. 08:39 AM - Re: IMC - What If??? (Bruce Gray) 12. 08:53 AM - Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A (Sam Buchanan) 13. 09:59 AM - Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A (John Fasching) 14. 10:26 AM - Re: IMC - What If??? (Charles Kuss) 15. 10:33 AM - Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A (Ralph E. Capen) 16. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Oil leak (Christopher Stone) 17. 11:36 AM - Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A (Sam Buchanan) 18. 12:08 PM - Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A (Ralph E. Capen) 19. 12:12 PM - Re: Save me from UGLY! (rwhittier) 20. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: Oil leak (JFLEISC@aol.com) 21. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Save me from UGLY! (David Schaefer) 22. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: rivets working (Hedrick) 23. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: rivets working (Hedrick) 24. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: rivets working (Hedrick) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:33 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? From: "N395V" Its not only the EFIS or its programming you need to worry about. My F1 was all electric. 2 different EFISs. All went black when the solenoid failed. You need to plan backup into the sytems of the aircraft also. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6712#206712 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:41 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? That's why my ADI backup is Vacuum. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? Its not only the EFIS or its programming you need to worry about. My F1 was all electric. 2 different EFISs. All went black when the solenoid failed. You need to plan backup into the sytems of the aircraft also. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6712#206712 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:52 AM PST US From: "Don Mack" Subject: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A Hello, I am trying to add an AOA to my Dynon on my 6A. It connects to the Dynon Pitot. I am attempting to run the tubing behind the tank and in front of the spar. I am trying to do this without removing the tank. I can not get the tube to go through. It feels like it is going to the end of the tank and being blocked. I shined a flashlight down the space at the wing root in a dark hanger and could not see any light when I looked from the wingtip to the tank. I do not see anything on the plans that would indicate something is there. Does anyone know if there is something there or a suggesting for running the tube? Don Mack ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:10 AM PST US From: "Jack Hilditch" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Good morning, There's an excellent discussion on the engineering tips forum on rivets and replacement (albeit on much heavier airframes) but it is certainly worth a read. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349 &page=6 I would also guess that you could get a specific answer there as well. Regards, Jack Riviting my RV-9A Fuselage at the moment. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Working rivets, sometimes called "Smokin Rivets" can be the result of flight induced stress and strain from flight forces, airframe design technique and riveting technique. Often, the removed rivets have "Fretted" in their respective holes. Fretting is a form of corrosion. The removal and re-riveting is one method of remediation. Installing the replaced rivets "Wet" is another. There are lots of RV6 guys who should pipe in as to whether this is a reasonably common incident. I have completed a Pre-purchase Inspection and then subsequent Conditional Inspection on a 9 year old, 900 hour 6A without such a finding on a base white topcoat. Cracks which developed early in the flight life have been followed without apparent growth. We measured each and documented them for quantitative comparison next January. These are valued issues to discuss. The original owner moved onto an RV-10 and is now tackling an RV-3 project. John Cox From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hedrick Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more rivets. Is this a common thing in older rv's, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I stop it and how do I fix the damage ? Thanks Keith Hedrick 64DK @ 3LF Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:41 AM PST US From: "Scott Kuebler" Subject: RV-List: RV-6 / 6a kits for sale RV-6 / 6a kits for sale. Empennage: Complete except for fiberglass tips. Includes electric elevator trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Marhyde primer. Wings & Phlogiston Spar: Both skeletons fully assembled. Top skins riveted. Both tanks are complete and sealed. Flaps and ailerons complete, but not fitted. Includes electric aileron trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Deft epoxy primer (Mil-P-23377G). Both kits are the pre-punched versions purchased in 1997 & 1998 by myself. Construction is excellent. Preview plans and Orndorff videos are included for both kits. Detailed photos are available upon request. Must sell. The first $3750 takes it all. Buyer arranges transportation. If all items were purchased separately the price would be more than $6500 for the unassembled kits. Regards, Scott Kuebler Buffalo, NY 716-510-0318- cell scottam65@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:59 AM PST US From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_W?= Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? Thought I'd add my 2 cents - Both my AFS 3400/3500 have internal batteries, 1/2 hr each. Plus a portable VHF and a portable GPS. Michle RV8 - trying to get it finished. -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Bruce Gray Envoy: lundi 29 septembre 2008 15:07 : rv-list@matronics.com Objet: RE: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? That's why my ADI backup is Vacuum. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? Its not only the EFIS or its programming you need to worry about. My F1 was all electric. 2 different EFISs. All went black when the solenoid failed. You need to plan backup into the sytems of the aircraft also. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6712#206712 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:59 AM PST US From: "David Schaefer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Save me from UGLY! That's the plan. I'm working on a mount to attach to the baggage compartment wall and move the unit forward about 12" into the canopy. The unit already has the option to remotely turn on and it will feed my GRTs. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done it yet! Thanks... DWS On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Greg Young wrote: > You can remote mount the current unit if you have a TIS compatible > display like a 396/496. There's an internal jumper mod they can do to > allow it to power up without having to press a front panel button. I had a > long conversation with Zane (the ZA of Zaon) and he said they do the mod for > sailplane installations. You still have to put the antenna somewhere it's > not seriously blocked. He did say you could adjust the gain of each quadrant > separately to deal with some location issues. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David Schaefer > *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:23 PM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Save me from UGLY! > > Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have dumped > the idea prior to OSH this year. > > Thanks.... > DWS > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > >> >> Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision avoidance >> system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and probably a >> 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to be feeding an >> EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on the panel as >> control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon Support some email >> and ask them about their "panel mount" version and when it will be >> available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel mount version for my >> RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding a 3.125" is going to be >> tough... >> >> Matt Dralle >> RV-8 #82880 >> >> >> At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: >> >I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. >> However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to >> mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the >> baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy >> and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the >> passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the >> way with the display sent to my EFIS units. >> > >> >Any other thoughts where to mount this? >> > >> >Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? >> > >> >Thanks..... >> > >> >-- >> >David W. Schaefer >> >RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" >> >TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS >> >www.n142ds.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email >> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > David W. Schaefer > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > www.n142ds.com > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:38 AM PST US From: "Valovich, Paul" Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Since I started this thread with what I thought was a straight-forward pres entation of the analysis I used in determining my panel configuration, perh aps an addition of a not-mentioned analysis factor will provide additional fuel to this debate. That factor is the reliability of vacuum -powered ins truments in the days before glass cockpits. While the focus of recent posts has been on EFIS failure what ifs, it was m y understanding that the weak link of pre-EFIS IFR flight was vacuum pump r eliability. Is that a correct statement? If it is correct, then the pre-EFIS analogy to EFIS failure is IMC flight w ith no vacuum pump. What if??????????? Seems like the challenges would be the same - establishing controlled fligh t in an upright attitude and having enough confidence in the tools and proc edures available in that mode to get it on the ground. So what do you old guys have to say? Booger ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:21 AM PST US From: mr.gsun@gmail.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: rivets working Since there are just a few rivets that are somewhat loose in the hole, how about a little clear epoxy forced down into the hole and squeegied off the painted surface before it dries? I remember flying a lot of hours in an Grumman American Yankee that was held together with epoxy. Wouldn't that work fine until there are a significant number of loose rivets in the same area? do not archive On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:03 AM, Jack Hilditch wrote: > Good morning, > > > There's an excellent discussion on the engineering tips forum on rivets and > replacement (albeit on much heavier airframes) but it is certainly worth a > read. > > http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349&page=6 I would also > guess that you could get a specific answer there as well. > > > Regards, > > > *Jack * > > *Riviting my RV-9A Fuselage at the moment.*** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Cox > *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:31 PM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working > > > Working rivets, sometimes called "Smokin Rivets" can be the result of > flight induced stress and strain from flight forces, airframe design > technique and riveting technique. Often, the removed rivets have "Fretted" > in their respective holes. Fretting is a form of corrosion. > > > The removal and re-riveting is one method of remediation. Installing the > replaced rivets "Wet" is another. There are lots of RV6 guys who should > pipe in as to whether this is a reasonably common incident. > > > I have completed a Pre-purchase Inspection and then subsequent Conditional > Inspection on a 9 year old, 900 hour 6A without such a finding on a base > white topcoat. Cracks which developed early in the flight life have been > followed without apparent growth. We measured each and documented them for > quantitative comparison next January. These are valued issues to discuss. > The original owner moved onto an RV-10 and is now tackling an RV-3 project. > > > John Cox > > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedrick > *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:33 PM > *To:* 'Hedrick'; rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: RE: rivets working > > > Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer > in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have > noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more > rivets. > > > Is this a common thing in older rv's, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it > was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I > stop it and how do I fix the damage ? > > > Thanks > > > Keith Hedrick > > 64DK > > @ 3LF > > > Checked by AVG. > 9/27/2008 1:11 PM > > > Checked by AVG. > 9/27/2008 1:11 PM > > > Checked by AVG. > 9/27/2008 1:11 PM > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > * * > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:11 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A Don, IIRC, there is a double rib just outboard of the tank which I drilled through and put in a set of grommets. To carry the line, I removed a few of the nutplates for the top attach screws and put an angle bracket under them for an additional nutplate which fastened an adel clamp....about three places. I have pictures at home...if you want 'em. I think I can state with confidence that the tank will need to come off - unless you snake the hose through the lightening hole in the double rib - but it'll probably rub there. Ralph RV6AQB Slider N822AR @ N06 - getting my final airworthiness application paperwork reviewed..... -----Original Message----- >From: Don Mack >Sent: Sep 29, 2008 9:29 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A > > >Hello, > >I am trying to add an AOA to my Dynon on my 6A. It connects to the Dynon >Pitot. I am attempting to run the tubing behind the tank and in front of the >spar. I am trying to do this without removing the tank. I can not get the >tube to go through. It feels like it is going to the end of the tank and >being blocked. I shined a flashlight down the space at the wing root in a >dark hanger and could not see any light when I looked from the wingtip to >the tank. I do not see anything on the plans that would indicate something >is there. Does anyone know if there is something there or a suggesting for >running the tube? > >Don Mack > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:03 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? True, but we've flown behind the standard six-pack for decades and it's failure modes are well known and recognized. EFIS failures are more insidious and, unless the screen goes dark, not easy to discern. Vac pump failure is the weak link but with proper maintenance (or a wet vac pump), system reliability can be high. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:49 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Since I started this thread with what I thought was a straight-forward presentation of the analysis I used in determining my panel configuration, perhaps an addition of a not-mentioned analysis factor will provide additional fuel to this debate. That factor is the reliability of vacuum -powered instruments in the days before glass cockpits. While the focus of recent posts has been on EFIS failure what ifs, it was my understanding that the weak link of pre-EFIS IFR flight was vacuum pump reliability. Is that a correct statement? If it is correct, then the pre-EFIS analogy to EFIS failure is IMC flight with no vacuum pump. What if??????????? Seems like the challenges would be the same - establishing controlled flight in an upright attitude and having enough confidence in the tools and procedures available in that mode to get it on the ground. So what do you old guys have to say? Booger ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:30 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A No need to remove a tank! I added an LRI AOA to my flying RV-6 and the probe lines are routed through the wing rib lightning holes. Just use commons sense for securing the tubing to the ribs. I slipped a short length of rubber hose over the tubing at the ribs, drilled a 1/4" hole near the edge of a lightning hole, and secured the tubing to the rib with a zip tie. Other simple methods will work as well, no need to get complicated. If you have a wiring conduit in the wing, you may be able to snake the tubing down the conduit. Sam Buchanan ======================== Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > Don, > > IIRC, there is a double rib just outboard of the tank which I drilled > through and put in a set of grommets. > > To carry the line, I removed a few of the nutplates for the top > attach screws and put an angle bracket under them for an additional > nutplate which fastened an adel clamp....about three places. I have > pictures at home...if you want 'em. > > I think I can state with confidence that the tank will need to come > off - unless you snake the hose through the lightening hole in the > double rib - but it'll probably rub there. > > Ralph RV6AQB Slider N822AR @ N06 - getting my final airworthiness > application paperwork reviewed..... > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Don Mack Sent: Sep 29, 2008 9:29 AM To: >> rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> I am trying to add an AOA to my Dynon on my 6A. It connects to the >> Dynon Pitot. I am attempting to run the tubing behind the tank and >> in front of the spar. I am trying to do this without removing the >> tank. I can not get the tube to go through. It feels like it is >> going to the end of the tank and being blocked. I shined a >> flashlight down the space at the wing root in a dark hanger and >> could not see any light when I looked from the wingtip to the tank. >> I do not see anything on the plans that would indicate something is >> there. Does anyone know if there is something there or a suggesting >> for running the tube? >> >> Don Mack ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:31 AM PST US From: "John Fasching" Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A Sam is right, I cut a slit in the flex conduit in the wings and ran the tubes from the LRI into it and pushed them to the fuselage...works just fine. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:59 AM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Paul, Another way to improve reliability with vacuum attitude instruments is to use a "wet" vacuum pump, rather than a dry (oil-less) unit. Charlie Kuss --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Valovich, Paul wrote: > From: Valovich, Paul > Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? > To: "rv-list@matronics.com" > Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 10:49 AM > Since I started this thread with what I thought was a > straight-forward presentation of the analysis I used in > determining my panel configuration, perhaps an addition of a > not-mentioned analysis factor will provide additional fuel > to this debate. That factor is the reliability of vacuum > -powered instruments in the days before glass cockpits. > > While the focus of recent posts has been on EFIS failure > what ifs, it was my understanding that the weak link of > pre-EFIS IFR flight was vacuum pump reliability. Is that a > correct statement? > > If it is correct, then the pre-EFIS analogy to EFIS failure > is IMC flight with no vacuum pump. What if??????????? > > Seems like the challenges would be the same - establishing > controlled flight in an upright attitude and having enough > confidence in the tools and procedures available in that > mode to get it on the ground. > > So what do you old guys have to say? > Booger ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:59 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A John and Sam may be right about being able to run it without removing the tank by using the flex tubing - I recall my tubing being aft of the spar and Don is trying to go forward of the spar. Depending on where the Dynon computer is mounted, you may have to cross the spar eventually. -----Original Message----- >From: John Fasching >Sent: Sep 29, 2008 12:57 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A > > >Sam is right, I cut a slit in the flex conduit in the wings and ran the >tubes from the LRI into it and pushed them to the fuselage...works just >fine. > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:54 AM PST US From: Christopher Stone Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil leak Thanks for the further explination. Have you had any problem with the breather coking up from the heat of the exhaust? How far upstream is the breather intersection from the end of the exhaust outlet? Thanks, Chris Stone RV-8 Newberg, OR > > >Chris, > I would be glad to help but the right angle is relative to your installation. The goal though is simple; you want to create at the very least a neutral pressure effect and optimally a little negative pressure for positive crankcase ventilation. What I did for mine was to find a spot on one of the exhaust tubes that is relatively close to the end but free of interference from engine and airframe and not so close the oil doesnt get a chance to burn. I cut a hole in it and then fitted the tube to fit at about a 45 degree angle back and flush with the inside of the exhaust tube gound to fit the curvature. Now some have shown to extend the tube into the exhaust to create a greater effect. I believe with a single tube that would cause restrictions, but with the 4 into 1 collector you could probably get by with it. I really wish I had a dyno an extra engine and some vacuum gauges to put it to science, but I dont. > >Like anything getting close to or into the exhaust there is the risk of fire. So one should be careful to have enough tube coming out of the exhaust (about 3 to 4 inches depending on airflow) to keep the heat from burning the breather tube and you should replace the breather tube with high temp hose. I used the blue hose from AC spruce and so far no discoloration or sign of stress, so I guess it is OK. > >I hope that helps. Summit racing and other race shops sell kits to do such a thing and one I found had a screw in weldment which I used on the acrosport. But I did grind off some of the screw in tube to keep it from protruding too much into the exhaust pipe. SO it might be worth looking into too. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6418#206418 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:16 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > John and Sam may be right about being able to run it without removing > the tank by using the flex tubing - I recall my tubing being aft of > the spar and Don is trying to go forward of the spar. Depending on > where the Dynon computer is mounted, you may have to cross the spar > eventually. The tubing has to go to the panel to be connected to the Dynon. The spar can be crossed at the same place as all the stuff going to the back of the airplane. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:57 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A Agreed! -----Original Message----- >From: Sam Buchanan >Sent: Sep 29, 2008 2:34 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A > > >Ralph E. Capen wrote: >> >> >> John and Sam may be right about being able to run it without removing >> the tank by using the flex tubing - I recall my tubing being aft of >> the spar and Don is trying to go forward of the spar. Depending on >> where the Dynon computer is mounted, you may have to cross the spar >> eventually. > >The tubing has to go to the panel to be connected to the Dynon. The spar >can be crossed at the same place as all the stuff going to the back of >the airplane. > >Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:39 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Save me from UGLY! From: "rwhittier" I am struggling with the same dilemma. I would really like to do the same but worry the performance will suffer by metal shielding signals - either inbound or outbound. Please post pictures of what you decide. Thanks. [quote="n142ds(at)gmail.com"]That's the plan. I'm working on a mount to attach to the baggage compartment wall and move the unit forward about 12" into the canopy. The unit already has the option to remotely turn on and it will feed my GRTs. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done it yet! Thanks... DWS On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Greg Young wrote: > You can remote mount the current unit if you have a TIS compatible display like a 396/496. There's an internal jumper mod they can do to allow it to power up without having to press a front panel button. I had a long conversation with Zane (the ZA of Zaon) and he said they do the mod for sailplane installations. You still have to put the antenna somewhere it's not seriously blocked. He did say you could adjust the gain of each quadrant separately to deal with some location issues. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)] On Behalf Of David Schaefer > > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:23 PM > > To: rv-list@matronics.com (rv-list@matronics.com) > > > > Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY! > > > > > > > > Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have dumped the idea prior to OSH this year. > > > > Thanks.... > > DWS > > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > > > > Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision avoidance system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and probably a 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to be feeding an EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on the panel as control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon Support some email and ask them about their "panel mount" version and when it will be available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel mount version for my RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding a 3.125" is going to be tough... > > > > > > Matt Dralle > > > RV-8 #82880 > > > > > > > > > At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: > > > > > > > I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS units. > > > > > > > > Any other thoughts where to mount this? > > > > > > > > Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? > > > > > > > > Thanks..... > > > > > > > > -- > > > > David W. Schaefer > > > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > > > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com (dralle@matronics.com) Email > > > http://www.matronics.com/ (http://www.matronics.com/) WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > David W. Schaefer > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com)">http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com) > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/c) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > [b] -------- Roger Whittier RV7A Tip Up, N1MY Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6794#206794 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:24 PM PST US From: JFLEISC@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil leak In a message dated 9/29/2008 1:39:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv8iator@earthlink.net writes: Like anything getting close to or into the exhaust there is the risk of fire. So one should be careful to have enough tube coming out of the exhaust (about 3 to 4 inches depending on airflow) to keep the heat from burning the breather tube and you should replace the breather tube with high temp hose. I used the blue hose from AC spruce and so far no discoloration or sign of stress, so I guess it is OK. Crankcase ventilation systems have their down side. I experimented a lot with these back in the 70's on air cooled VW engines and I did, in fact, have a dynamometer to run these systems on. There was a theory that by putting a vacuum on the crankcase, and thus on the back side of the pistons, you would have that much more pressure "offset" on the top of the pistons to translate into power. It's nonsense if you think about it but I tried it anyway (no power to be seen). By placing the tube at the junction of a 4 into 1 exhaust you would be at the point of maximum venturi. Let me tell you; when done correctly at least that part works. At higher RPM the vacuum is tremendous! So much so that the engine constantly inhaled valve cover gaskets (a pretty big down side). The plus side is that NO oil leaks out while its running. The danger here is that you should have a flame arrestor in the crank vent tubing just like cars used to have in the air cleaner to valve cover tube back in the 60's. With the right amount of gas diluted in your oil a backfire could potentially ruin your day. Jim **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:43 PM PST US From: "David Schaefer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Save me from UGLY! Certainly... actually if it's up in the canopy I don't believe I'll get the shielding issues as I would on the dash. We'll see. I've got the mount about done. I'll post pictures on the web-site as I make progress. Thanks... DWS On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:12 PM, rwhittier wrote: > > I am struggling with the same dilemma. I would really like to do the same > but worry the performance will suffer by metal shielding signals - either > inbound or outbound. Please post pictures of what you decide. Thanks. > > > [quote="n142ds(at)gmail.com"]That's the plan. I'm working on a mount to > attach to the baggage compartment wall and move the unit forward about 12" > into the canopy. The unit already has the option to remotely turn on and > it will feed my GRTs. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done it yet! > > Thanks... > DWS > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Greg Young wrote: > > > You can remote mount the current unit if you have a TIS compatible > display like a 396/496. There's an internal jumper mod they can do to allow > it to power up without having to press a front panel button. I had a long > conversation with Zane (the ZA of Zaon) and he said they do the mod for > sailplane installations. You still have to put the antenna somewhere it's > not seriously blocked. He did say you could adjust the gain of each > quadrant separately to deal with some location issues. > > > > Regards, > > Greg Young > > > > > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com ( > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com) [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)] > On Behalf Of David Schaefer > > > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:23 PM > > > To: rv-list@matronics.com (rv-list@matronics.com) > > > > > > Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY! > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have > dumped the idea prior to OSH this year. > > > > > > Thanks.... > > > DWS > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > > > > > > Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision > avoidance system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and > probably a 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to > be feeding an EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on > the panel as control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon > Support some email and ask them about their "panel mount" version and > when it will be available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel > mount version for my RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding > a 3.125" is going to be tough... > > > > > > > > Matt Dralle > > > > RV-8 #82880 > > > > > > > > > > > > At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the > 6A-slider. However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the > panel!! Not to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan > to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it > up into the canopy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" > or so up behind the passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the > sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS > units. > > > > > > > > > > Any other thoughts where to mount this? > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the > wheel?!? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks..... > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > David W. Schaefer > > > > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > > > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended > Airfoil, GRT EFIS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > > > > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com ( > dralle@matronics.com) Email > > > > http://www.matronics.com/ (http://www.matronics.com/) WWW | > Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > David W. Schaefer > > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT > EFIS > > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ( > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ( > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com)"> > http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com) > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ( > http://www.matronics.com/contribution)">http://www.matronics.com/c ( > http://www.matronics.com/c) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > David W. Schaefer > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > [b] > > > -------- > Roger Whittier > RV7A Tip Up, N1MY Reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6794#206794 > > -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:12 PM PST US From: "Hedrick" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Thanks Jack I have read some of this over, and will read it all. (later) Well, I read a lot of it, and now my head hurts, I am just a hillbilly from S IL. Way above my head, there are some engineers talking lots of experience there. Keith Hedrick Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hilditch Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:04 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Good morning, There's an excellent discussion on the engineering tips forum on rivets and replacement (albeit on much heavier airframes) but it is certainly worth a read. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349 &page=6 I would also guess that you could get a specific answer there as well. Regards, Jack Riviting my RV-9A Fuselage at the moment. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Working rivets, sometimes called "Smokin Rivets" can be the result of flight induced stress and strain from flight forces, airframe design technique and riveting technique. Often, the removed rivets have "Fretted" in their respective holes. Fretting is a form of corrosion. The removal and re-riveting is one method of remediation. Installing the replaced rivets "Wet" is another. There are lots of RV6 guys who should pipe in as to whether this is a reasonably common incident. I have completed a Pre-purchase Inspection and then subsequent Conditional Inspection on a 9 year old, 900 hour 6A without such a finding on a base white topcoat. Cracks which developed early in the flight life have been followed without apparent growth. We measured each and documented them for quantitative comparison next January. These are valued issues to discuss. The original owner moved onto an RV-10 and is now tackling an RV-3 project. John Cox From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hedrick Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more rivets. Is this a common thing in older rv's, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I stop it and how do I fix the damage ? Thanks Keith Hedrick 64DK @ 3LF Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 1:30 PM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:12 PM PST US From: "Hedrick" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Hi John, I suspect that to really stop the smoking rivets I need to find the cause of the flight strain and stop it first. I am not sure where to start. i cant tell if I have corrosion in the rivets, I don't see any from the top. I am still wondering if this is a common or rare occurrence in the 6. Thanks for your help, Keith 64DK Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:31 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Working rivets, sometimes called "Smokin Rivets" can be the result of flight induced stress and strain from flight forces, airframe design technique and riveting technique. Often, the removed rivets have "Fretted" in their respective holes. Fretting is a form of corrosion. The removal and re-riveting is one method of remediation. Installing the replaced rivets "Wet" is another. There are lots of RV6 guys who should pipe in as to whether this is a reasonably common incident. I have completed a Pre-purchase Inspection and then subsequent Conditional Inspection on a 9 year old, 900 hour 6A without such a finding on a base white topcoat. Cracks which developed early in the flight life have been followed without apparent growth. We measured each and documented them for quantitative comparison next January. These are valued issues to discuss. The original owner moved onto an RV-10 and is now tackling an RV-3 project. John Cox From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hedrick Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more rivets. Is this a common thing in older rv's, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I stop it and how do I fix the damage ? Thanks Keith Hedrick 64DK @ 3LF Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 1:30 PM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:13 PM PST US From: "Hedrick" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working I don't know if I could get epoxy in the space or if this would be the best way to repair it. ??? thanks for the reply. Keith Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mr.gsun@gmail.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:30 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: rivets working Since there are just a few rivets that are somewhat loose in the hole, how about a little clear epoxy forced down into the hole and squeegied off the painted surface before it dries? I remember flying a lot of hours in an Grumman American Yankee that was held together with epoxy. Wouldn't that work fine until there are a significant number of loose rivets in the same area? do not archive On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:03 AM, Jack Hilditch wrote: Good morning, There's an excellent discussion on the engineering tips forum on rivets and replacement (albeit on much heavier airframes) but it is certainly worth a read. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349 &page=6 I would also guess that you could get a specific answer there as well. Regards, Jack Riviting my RV-9A Fuselage at the moment. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Working rivets, sometimes called "Smokin Rivets" can be the result of flight induced stress and strain from flight forces, airframe design technique and riveting technique. Often, the removed rivets have "Fretted" in their respective holes. Fretting is a form of corrosion. The removal and re-riveting is one method of remediation. Installing the replaced rivets "Wet" is another. There are lots of RV6 guys who should pipe in as to whether this is a reasonably common incident. I have completed a Pre-purchase Inspection and then subsequent Conditional Inspection on a 9 year old, 900 hour 6A without such a finding on a base white topcoat. Cracks which developed early in the flight life have been followed without apparent growth. We measured each and documented them for quantitative comparison next January. These are valued issues to discuss. The original owner moved onto an RV-10 and is now tackling an RV-3 project. John Cox From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hedrick Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more rivets. Is this a common thing in older rv's, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I stop it and how do I fix the damage ? Thanks Keith Hedrick 64DK @ 3LF Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 1:30 PM Checked by AVG. 1:30 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.