Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:01 AM - Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? (Chuck Daus)
2. 07:49 AM - Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? (Bob J.)
3. 07:58 AM - Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? (Charles Kuss)
4. 09:03 AM - Re: Interior Painting - Power coating? When? (Jim Carey)
5. 09:57 AM - Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? (John Cox)
6. 02:20 PM - Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? (Matt Dralle)
7. 02:38 PM - Re: Fiberglass epoxy of choice (Matt Dralle)
8. 02:46 PM - Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? (linn Walters)
9. 08:16 PM - Starter Contactor (partner14)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? |
Matt,
I own/operate a powdercoating facility. There are many low E or low cure
powders on the market (300 deg. F. temp for 12 minute cure) that would help
with the heat treat issues. My biggest concern is weight. I would guess
15-25 lbs. With the lower cure temp I don't think distortion or artificially
aging (heat treat) would be a big concern (the aluminum will age by itself
over time any way). Some other concerns are the thickness; if you have any
parts that fit together I am sure they will not. You could have the coater
mask off these areas or have them give you some high temp. tape and you do
it your self. Make sure the coater properly pretreats (degrease and etch and
dry) your fuselage before applying the powder. Lastly, if for some reason
your aircraft ever gets real hot the powder will burn and the fumes that
powder gives off are very unpleasant. Oh, one more thing, powder hides
cracks very well.
Just a few things to consider,
Chuck
RV6A FWF
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Fellow RV-er's,
There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough
to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just having
the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of
guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts
come from Van's powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of
powercoating all of the interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the
backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts
bare in prep for the powercoating. Will the powercoat chip off easily on
the bend-y pieces?
And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would like
to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like the
forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get
riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have all of
the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted before
coating to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating
going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be removed once
their installed...
The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I
think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature have
on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic
bushings, clamps, etc?
I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as possible
to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to wait
too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good
looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should probably be riveted
down, but any screwed in panels should be removed. But riveting the
floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day before test
flying...
Thanks for any insight...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 # 82880
Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? |
Matt, I have a friend that had his instrument panel powdercoated in his
RV-6, thinking it would hold up better than paint He left the airplane
outside on a trip and it rained heavily, and some rain droplets made it onto
the panel. The panel has some permanent water stains on it now, apparently
whatever powdercoat was used was not impervious to water.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
>
> Fellow RV-er's,
>
> There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough
> to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just having
> the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of
> guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts
> come from Van's powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of
> powercoating all of the interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the
> backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts
> bare in prep for the powercoating. Will the powercoat chip off easily on
> the bend-y pieces?
>
> And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would
> like to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like
> the forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these
> get riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have
> all of the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted
> before coating to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is
> coating going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be
> removed once their installed...
>
> The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I
> think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature have
> on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic
> bushings, clamps, etc?
>
> I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as
> possible to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want
> to wait too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of
> making a good looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should
> probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should be removed. But
> riveting the floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day
> before test flying...
>
> Thanks for any insight...
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 # 82880
> Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install
>
>
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? |
Matt,
The big issue with powder coating or paint is the quality of the prep work. If
the shop doesn't do great prep work, you will have a real mess on your hands.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 8:11 PM
> <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
> Fellow RV-er's,
>
> There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an
> oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it.
> I've been considering just having the whole inside
> powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of
> guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of
> the steel parts come from Van's powercoated. But what
> are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the
> interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the
> backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the
> occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating.
> Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces?
>
> And when's the right time to take it down to the
> powercoaters? I would like to have most things riveted that
> need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over
> the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get
> riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would
> like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at
> least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid
> scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating
> going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really
> be removed once their installed...
>
> The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the
> powercoating. I think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What
> impact will that temperature have on the various parts that
> go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings,
> clamps, etc?
>
> I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to
> wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the
> powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not
> be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good
> looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should
> probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should
> be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something
> I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying...
>
> Thanks for any insight...
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 # 82880
> Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Interior Painting - Power coating? When? |
Hi MATT.
I have been powder coating a lot of my smaller parts. The process is simple
but you need to bring the part to 400deg for about fifteen or twenty
minutes. This would just about make doing the whole airframe impossible. Any
part that you had paint would no doubt have to be stripped due to the heat.
What I have done looks good and like I said it is easy.
1 powder coat kit from Summit Racing $140
1 used electric oven $ 50
install 220v/50amp service to oven $250
Good luck
Jim Carey
RV8A working on it
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Matt,
The big issue with powder coating or paint is the quality of the prep work.
If the shop doesn't do great prep work, you will have a real mess on your
hands.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 8:11 PM
> <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
> Fellow RV-er's,
>
> There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an
> oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it.
> I've been considering just having the whole inside
> powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of
> guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of
> the steel parts come from Van's powercoated. But what
> are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the
> interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the
> backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the
> occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating.
> Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces?
>
> And when's the right time to take it down to the
> powercoaters? I would like to have most things riveted that
> need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over
> the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get
> riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would
> like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at
> least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid
> scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating
> going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really
> be removed once their installed...
>
> The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the
> powercoating. I think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What
> impact will that temperature have on the various parts that
> go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings,
> clamps, etc?
>
> I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to
> wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the
> powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not
> be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good
> looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should
> probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should
> be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something
> I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying...
>
> Thanks for any insight...
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 # 82880
> Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install
>
>
__________________________________________________
__________ NOD32 3542 (20081021) Information __________
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? |
Chuck closed with the most important point. Powdercoat makes the
inspection of welds and crack propagation a real BEAR. Consider that
when Pro/Con (weighing) the durability to environmentals and increased
gross weight. Sure looks pretty though.
John Cox
IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Daus
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Matt,
I own/operate a powdercoating facility. There are many low E or low
cure
powders on the market (300 deg. F. temp for 12 minute cure) that would
help
with the heat treat issues. My biggest concern is weight. I would guess
15-25 lbs. With the lower cure temp I don't think distortion or
artificially
aging (heat treat) would be a big concern (the aluminum will age by
itself
over time any way). Some other concerns are the thickness; if you have
any
parts that fit together I am sure they will not. You could have the
coater
mask off these areas or have them give you some high temp. tape and you
do
it your self. Make sure the coater properly pretreats (degrease and etch
and
dry) your fuselage before applying the powder. Lastly, if for some
reason
your aircraft ever gets real hot the powder will burn and the fumes that
powder gives off are very unpleasant. Oh, one more thing, powder hides
cracks very well.
Just a few things to consider,
Chuck
RV6A FWF
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Fellow RV-er's,
There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large
enough
to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just
having
the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots
of
guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel
parts
come from Van's powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of
powercoating all of the interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of
the
backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts
bare in prep for the powercoating. Will the powercoat chip off easily
on
the bend-y pieces?
And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would
like
to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like
the
forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these
get
riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have
all of
the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted
before
coating to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is
coating
going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be removed
once
their installed...
The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I
think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature
have
on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts,
plastic
bushings, clamps, etc?
I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as
possible
to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to
wait
too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a
good
looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should probably be
riveted
down, but any screwed in panels should be removed. But riveting the
floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day before test
flying...
Thanks for any insight...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 # 82880
Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? |
Thanks for all the great feedback on powercoating the interior! I think I'm going
to skip powercoating the interior based on everyone's feedback.
I had a conversation with my local body shop guy who I've know for nearly 20 years.
He was very willing to take on the project and basically said that we could
work out an arrangement where I could do most of the supervised prep work
in his shop and then he would simply supply the paint and the skill in applying
it. Sounds like a good deal to me. He has a really nice, large sealed paint
booth that the -8 will fit right into. He has completely repainted two cars
for me in the past and his skill is superb. He was saying that he recently painted
a guys Rotoway helecopter.
Still, the "when" is a question mark. I want to delay as long as possible, but
I don't want to wait too long and have to completely disassemble everything or
worse yet *wish* that I could disassemble things for paint.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880
At 05:11 PM 10/20/2008 Monday, you wrote:
>
>
>Fellow RV-er's,
>
>There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough to
put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just having the whole
inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of guys powercoat
the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts come from Van's
powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the
interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the backsides of the interior
parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating.
Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces?
>
>And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would like to
have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like the forward
deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get riveted
on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have all of the wiring
and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted before coating
to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating going to make
a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be removed once their installed...
>
>The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I think
its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature have on the various
parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings,
clamps, etc?
>
>I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as possible to
avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to wait too
long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good looking
job. For example, the rear floor boards should probably be riveted down, but
any screwed in panels should be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something
I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying...
>
>Thanks for any insight...
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-8 # 82880
>Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | RE: Fiberglass epoxy of choice |
Hi Nelson,
Here is a list of stuff to get from ACS to get your fiberglassing project off on the right foot. My empennage tips came out really nice using these ( http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=617&category=2975&log=63902&row=7 ).
Composite Tool Kit (Fiberglassing Starter Tool Kit)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/comptoolkit.php
West Systems Epoxy (Get the #105 Resin and #206 Hardner)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/westepoxy.php
West Systems Pump (These work great - Must Have)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/301PUMP.php
West Systems User Manual (Free! Get it!)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/neworderform.php?cmd=add&p=01-08750&q=1
9oz Cloth
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/7500.php
Gel Coat
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polyestergelCoats.php
Flocked Cotton (Course Filler)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/flockedcotton.php
Microballoons / Glass Bubbles (Fine Filler)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/bubbles.php
Matt Dralle
RV-8 # 82880
At 02:13 PM 10/21/2008 Tuesday, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>
>
>Hi Matt,
>
>Do you have lead on that West Systems starter kit? I can't seem to find it on
ACS's www site.
>
>Thanks,
> /\/elson
>
>
>~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
>
>On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>>
>>I would echo Scotts comments. I used the West Systems epoxy and was extremely
pleased with the results. Get some microballoons, some flocked cotton, and
some 9oz cloth too, to use as filler to mix in with the epoxy where needed.
>>
>>BTW, ACS has a really nice "starter kit" for fiberglassing that includes all
of the "tools" that make the job a whole lot easier. I bought it and am really
happy I did. I wouldn't have bought some of the things thinking I "wouldn't
need that", but in reality, they came in handy.
>>
>>You haven't done the tail tips yet, I guess...?
>>
>>Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? |
Matt Dralle wrote:
snip
> Still, the "when" is a question mark. I want to delay as long as possible, but
I don't want to wait too long and have to completely disassemble everything
or worse yet *wish* that I could disassemble things for paint.
>
I think everyone wrestles with this one! When I painted my Pitts, I did
it before it was assembled ..... much easier to handle the 'smaller'
pieces in the paint booth. I'll probably paint the -10 the same way.
My shop is at home and the airport about a mile away, and I've pondered
getting the Sheriff to lead me as I taxi down the road .... or after a
part is painted, move that part to the airport for assembly. I have
friends that still have their plane painted in primer years after they
started flying ..... you hate to take a flying pland apart for paint,
and painting it assembled means some places won't get paint .... and
primer without paint MAY allow corrosion. So, at this point I'll have
everything in base coat color when it's assembled to fly .... and it may
have the trim at that point also.
Linn
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Starter Contactor |
I have the B&C S701-2 Crossfeed Contactor (starter) and just need to know what
wires go to each contact. Really the ones in question are the two small contacts.
Neither has the "S" or "I" labels that I've read everyone referencing.
Noone at B & C could tell me, so hopefully someone has this wired up already.
I've attached the photo that is on the B & C website with the can lid on the
top, and one diode going from the left small contact, over and above to the right
large lug. This particular contactor has the 2 large lugs on each side and
2 smaller lugs in the middle. I also tried Bob Nuckolls, but email address
was no longer valid. Thanks,
Don McDonald
#40636
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9788#209788
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/s701_2_123.jpg
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|