Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:09 AM - invitation to Slobovia Outernational Pumpkin Drop 2008 (Charlie England)
2. 07:45 AM - Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags (J Riffel)
3. 08:43 AM - Re: 406 ELT ()
4. 09:11 AM - Re: Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags (Patrick Kelley)
5. 09:47 AM - Re: dimple speed mods (Dan Morrow)
6. 11:49 AM - Re: Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags (Ron Lee)
7. 01:14 PM - Prop Governor Install / XP-360 (Dwight Frye)
8. 05:03 PM - Re: Prop Governor Install / XP-360 (Patrick Kelley)
9. 05:46 PM - Re: dimple speed mods (Johnson)
10. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Kelly McMullen)
11. 06:45 PM - Re: Prop Governor Install / XP-360 (Dwight Frye)
12. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Paul Besing)
Message 1
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| Subject: | invitation to Slobovia Outernational Pumpkin Drop 2008 |
RV'ers,
Come on down to Slobovia Outernational (MS71), 10mi north of Jackson MS,
to eat some BBQ & participate in our 2nd annual Pumpkin Drop on Nov 8,
2008. Give us a call at 601-879-9596 if you need directions.
Charlie & Tupper
Message 2
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| Subject: | Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags |
I've been working on my RV7A project for 4 years now. I chose to install
2 PMags on my new IO-360 from AeroSport - and am Very Pleased to this point.
With 2 PMags I've got to have a LOT of failures for the engine to stop:
battery, alternator, and both PMags. They are easy to install (bolt them in
any way you want) and time (put #1 cylinder on TDC and blow into the
manifold pressure tube a couple times). After timing the Slick mags on
my '65 Mooney, this is Amazingly Easy. I chose AutoPlugs so I they cost
$2/plug vs $20/plug (that's under $20 in plugs for the engine vs $160!)
But now it was time to start my brand new engine for the 1st time, so the
question was: How can I crank the engine to get the oil pressure up -
without starting ... and without taking a bunch of wires off.
I made a quick call to Brad (at EMags), who's been EXTREEMLY helpful, and we
came up with an approach which I thought I'd share.
Check oil level
Sparkplugs: OUT
chock the wheels & friend in the cockpit on the brakes
Key Switch: OFF (which grounds both P-Leads)
Master Switch: On (sending power to both PMags)
Visually verify that the LED on both PMags are illuminated Red (showing
they're in setup mode ... and Will Not Fire)
Place a Jumper wire between the Master solenoid and the Starter Solenoid (S
terminal) to crank the starter
After the oil pressure came up. We put the plugs in and cranked it again. It
started in about 2 blades and ran flawlessly. When I did a mag drop test, I
got NO RPM DROP - at all! And both internal alternators in the Pmags tested
fine.
I'd like to thank both Bart & Sue at AeroSport Power as well as Brad & Tom
at EMags for all their help to this point. Both businesses deliver a great
product, which they stand behind and have been great to deal with. I have
no reservations in recommending them to any builder.
BTW, I took my PMags back to have the service bulletin work done and to
see their solution. Both Brad & Tom took me thru the shop and explained in
detail how the mod was done. I'm comfortable with their answers to my
questions and their solution.
Message 3
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Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost 3 to 4 times
as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The fact still remains,
satellites are going dark, and really all you will have is a 100mw 121.5 elt
that has a range of a kids walkie talkie.
I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults alarms
every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because they are registered
and more accurate.
Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT, because no
one will hear it. The satellites for the old ELT's are going way regardless of
our Goverments ineffectualness in mandating the change. Even if the USA does
not require the 406, the world has moved on, except for may be a few military
sattalites, there will not be any sattalites looking for you. I think 406 will
be mandated at some point, just not next year as originally stated.
If you live in the wild west or remote areas with rugged terrain get a 406. If
all you do is fly the flat lands near your airport than it's less critical.
(would steve fossett have been found ssoner with a 406? I don't know, may be if
the ELT was in the most aft end of the plane? He flew straight into a mountain.
He had no chance of survival, but it sure would have been nice to find the
wreckage sooner than later for all involved. The cost of S&R was over a million.)
The fact is the chance of being saved with the old ELT is far less than the new
406. Yes ELT's have failed and not worked. Yes some crashes are not survivable,
however there is another factor. The cost of searching for your body and
the stress on your family. There is some value to not burdening society and your
family.
You can get a PLB as an adjunct or aid. They are NOT AS GOOD AS A HARD MOUNTED
406 ELT UNIT. Yes they have good specs on paper but their antenna is a big compromise
as is their battery. They are under a PLB spec. You could argue if you
crash and get out, but the plane burns to the ground than a PLB is nice. That
exact thing happend to a well known mountain flying instructor and his student.
Crashed, got out, plane burned. All their survivial gear and ELT gone. Lesson
wear a survival vest with the gear on your person.
Clearly having both the PLB and 406 aircraft ELT would be best. PLB's are not
a lot cheaper than a 406 elt about $600-$700 verses $1000. Of course you have
to remember to turn a PLB on. If you carsh suddenly, don't activate it and are
knocked out, than you are toast.
There is the private SPOT system as well, which is a pay service and does give
tracking. They are cheaper to buy but the fee adds up.
It's only money. More 406's are coming onto the market and cost about $1000.
I hope they get better and cheaper with more features (like GPS position standard).
With aircraft stuff I doubt the price will come down.
George
>From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@cox.net>
>Subject: RV-List: 406 ELT
>
>I believe its now clear that we will not be required to have the new
>elt, unless flying to canada maybe. I was wondering what the folks on
>here are thinking about installing, or not?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags |
The only question I have is: are the PMags not on CBs? It may be an
ignorant question because I have LightSpeeds, but my ECIs operate from the
switch but also have CBs. So when I went to pressure up the system, I
pulled the breakers and used the switch to crank.
Anyway, congrats on the engine start. I just did mine a short while ago and
I know how exhilarating it is. Almost in the air, eh?
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A N156PK - preparing for the Airworthiness Inspection!
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Riffel
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags
I've been working on my RV7A project for 4 years now. I chose to install 2
PMags on my new IO-360 from AeroSport - and am Very Pleased to this point.
With 2 PMags I've got to have a LOT of failures for the engine to stop:
battery, alternator, and both PMags. They are easy to install (bolt them in
any way you want) and time (put #1 cylinder on TDC and blow into the
manifold pressure tube a couple times). After timing the Slick mags on my
'65 Mooney, this is Amazingly Easy. I chose AutoPlugs so I they cost
$2/plug vs $20/plug (that's under $20 in plugs for the engine vs $160!)
But now it was time to start my brand new engine for the 1st time, so the
question was: How can I crank the engine to get the oil pressure up -
without starting ... and without taking a bunch of wires off.
I made a quick call to Brad (at EMags), who's been EXTREEMLY helpful, and we
came up with an approach which I thought I'd share.
Check oil level
Sparkplugs: OUT
chock the wheels & friend in the cockpit on the brakes
Key Switch: OFF (which grounds both P-Leads)
Master Switch: On (sending power to both PMags)
Visually verify that the LED on both PMags are illuminated Red (showing
they're in setup mode ... and Will Not Fire)
Place a Jumper wire between the Master solenoid and the Starter Solenoid (S
terminal) to crank the starter
After the oil pressure came up. We put the plugs in and cranked it again. It
started in about 2 blades and ran flawlessly. When I did a mag drop test, I
got NO RPM DROP - at all! And both internal alternators in the Pmags tested
fine.
I'd like to thank both Bart & Sue at AeroSport Power as well as Brad & Tom
at EMags for all their help to this point. Both businesses deliver a great
product, which they stand behind and have been great to deal with. I have
no reservations in recommending them to any builder.
BTW, I took my PMags back to have the service bulletin work done and to see
their solution. Both Brad & Tom took me thru the shop and explained in
detail how the mod was done. I'm comfortable with their answers to my
questions and their solution.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: dimple speed mods |
On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 10:43 -0600, John Fasching wrote:
> Yes, I was suckered into trying it. I put it on the Warnke wood prop
> on my Rv6A and the max RPM which had been 2550 was now 2800 and he
> throttle wasn't even full open.
>
> The tape reduced speed to a dangerous level with significant handling
> reducing qualities.
Sounds like the tape may have been working but you would need a higher
pitched prop to use it. Obviously it's not practical for the average
person to obtain a selection of props to experiment with. I wonder if
it might work better with a constant speed.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags |
Maybe their problems with the blow tube method have been resolved.
Personally
I would not rely upon that method if a failure causes it to revert back
to some mechanical
setting that may be bad for the timing.
Get it in your mind that if the engine runs very badly...to switch
between mags to isolate
possible Pmag problems. Obviously you should have other things to check
but don't skip
that one.
Ron Lee
I've been working on my RV7A project for 4 years now. I chose to
install 2 PMags on my new IO-360 from AeroSport - and am Very Pleased to
this point. With 2 PMags I've got to have a LOT of failures for the
engine to stop: battery, alternator, and both PMags. They are easy to
install (bolt them in any way you want) and time (put #1 cylinder on TDC
and blow into the manifold pressure tube a couple times).
Message 7
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| Subject: | Prop Governor Install / XP-360 |
I'm working on FWF and engine install activities, and got to the point
where I was ready to install my prop governor. I'm trying to install the
MT governor that Van's provides in the FWF kit, on a Superior XP-360
engine. As provided from the factory the XP-360 has a cover plate over
the prop governor drive pad, with a Superior-supplied gasket under the
plate.
As I read through the MT install instructions they discuss installing
the governor over four studs coming off the governor drive pad, with
specific torque values (of course). All nice in simple ... except I
don't have any studs. Instead the cover plate is held on with bolts.
I assume the -right- path is to acquire the correct studs for the MT
governor installation, install the studs into the drive pad, then install
the governor (as called out in the instructions) with the newly installed
studs.
Can someone confirm that my assumptions are correct? And, if oneone is
using the XP-360/MT Governor combination, did your engine come set up
the same way? And ... finally ... does anyone happen to already know
the correct studs to order? Thanks!
-- Dwight (going back to do "other stuff" while I wait to
get an answer on the prop governor question ... )
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Prop Governor Install / XP-360 |
Call Superior and let them know what you need. They'll get the right studs
to you in no time. I'm a bit surprised you don't already have the studs;
are you sure the engine is for a constant speed? Is the prop oil line
installed? Mine, which I built at the build school, came with the studs.
Anyway, I can vouch for Superior's tech support. In fact, I called about
the tach drive earlier this week and the chief mechanic himself gave me the
info I needed. They'll get you straightened out and hooked up.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A N156PK - waiting for Airworthiness Inspection.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Frye
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Prop Governor Install / XP-360
I'm working on FWF and engine install activities, and got to the point
where I was ready to install my prop governor. I'm trying to install the
MT governor that Van's provides in the FWF kit, on a Superior XP-360
engine. As provided from the factory the XP-360 has a cover plate over
the prop governor drive pad, with a Superior-supplied gasket under the
plate.
As I read through the MT install instructions they discuss installing
the governor over four studs coming off the governor drive pad, with
specific torque values (of course). All nice in simple ... except I
don't have any studs. Instead the cover plate is held on with bolts.
I assume the -right- path is to acquire the correct studs for the MT
governor installation, install the studs into the drive pad, then install
the governor (as called out in the instructions) with the newly installed
studs.
Can someone confirm that my assumptions are correct? And, if oneone is
using the XP-360/MT Governor combination, did your engine come set up
the same way? And ... finally ... does anyone happen to already know
the correct studs to order? Thanks!
-- Dwight (going back to do "other stuff" while I wait to
get an answer on the prop governor question ... )
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: dimple speed mods |
Thanks guys! I kinda figured it was too good to be true. There is always a
trade off.
Cheers..
Evan
Message -----
From: "Dan Morrow" <DanFM01@butter.toast.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: dimple speed mods
>
> On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 10:43 -0600, John Fasching wrote:
>> Yes, I was suckered into trying it. I put it on the Warnke wood prop
>> on my Rv6A and the max RPM which had been 2550 was now 2800 and he
>> throttle wasn't even full open.
>>
>> The tape reduced speed to a dangerous level with significant handling
>> reducing qualities.
>
> Sounds like the tape may have been working but you would need a higher
> pitched prop to use it. Obviously it's not practical for the average
> person to obtain a selection of props to experiment with. I wonder if
> it might work better with a constant speed.
>>
>>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
9:53 AM
Message 10
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Some folks are too young to know or remember that the original ELTs were
NEVER designed to be detected by satellites. Only 15 years after ELTs
were mandated was satellites monitoring introduced. So you revert to the
status ELTs had before 1985. If you really believe that being rescued in
8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is going to make that big a difference,
feel free to spend the money. ELTs haven't had too many faults alarms,
but a lot of false alarms. Some of us actually flew before the
government cared whether anyone found us or not. You don't know much
about radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie talkie range. The
effective power of that ELT is about as good as your handheld radios in
real life.
People will still look for you, it just won't be on the basis of a
satellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will still be required to
monitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have the frequency. I'd
think a jet pilot would know this, but guess not.
At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product
gets its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down.
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote:
> Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost
> 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The
> fact still remains, satellites are going dark, and really all you will
> have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range of a kids walkie talkie.
>
> I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults
> alarms every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because
> they are registered and more accurate.
>
> Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT,
> because no one will hear it.
> *
> *
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor Install / XP-360 |
Patrick,
I'll give 'em a call. And, yes, the prop oil line is installed. Thanks
for the heads up on their tech support!
-- Dwight
On Sat Oct 25 20:00:20 2008, Patrick Kelley wrote :
>Call Superior and let them know what you need. They'll get the right studs
>to you in no time. I'm a bit surprised you don't already have the studs;
>are you sure the engine is for a constant speed? Is the prop oil line
>installed? Mine, which I built at the build school, came with the studs.
>Anyway, I can vouch for Superior's tech support. In fact, I called about
>the tach drive earlier this week and the chief mechanic himself gave me the
>info I needed. They'll get you straightened out and hooked up.
>
>Patrick Kelley - RV-6A N156PK - waiting for Airworthiness Inspection.
Message 12
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In the military we monitor 243.0 as well...and there are alot of military a
ircraft in the skies at any one time.=0A=0APaul Besing=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______
__________________________=0AFrom: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>=0AT
o: rv-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:50:36 PM=0ASu
cMullen <kellym@aviating.com>=0A=0ASome folks are too young to know or reme
mber that the original ELTs were =0ANEVER designed to be detected by satell
ites. Only 15 years after ELTs =0Awere mandated was satellites monitoring i
ntroduced. So you revert to the =0Astatus ELTs had before 1985. If you real
ly believe that being rescued in =0A8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is goin
g to make that big a difference, =0Afeel free to spend the money. ELTs have
n't had too many faults alarms, =0Abut a lot of false alarms. Some of us ac
tually flew before the =0Agovernment cared whether anyone found us or not.
You don't know much =0Aabout radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie t
alkie range. The =0Aeffective power of that ELT is about as good as your ha
ndheld radios in =0Areal life.=0APeople will still look for you, it just wo
n't be on the basis of a =0Asatellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will st
ill be required to =0Amonitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have
the frequency. I'd =0Athink a jet pilot would know this, but guess not.=0A
At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product =0Aget
s its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down.=0A=0Ag
mcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote:=0A> Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new
, get the 406. The do cost =0A> 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr bat
teries which is good. The =0A> fact still remains, satellites are going dar
k, and really all you will =0A> have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range
of a kids walkie talkie.=0A>- =0A> I won't go into why 406 is better tech
nically, but the cost for faults =0A> alarms every year is huge. The 406 is
suppose to reduce this because =0A> they are registered and more accurate.
=0A>- =0A> Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old
=====================0A=0A=0A
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