---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/26/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Emrath) 2. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Kelly McMullen) 3. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Ron Lee) 4. 08:47 AM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Scott) 5. 09:02 AM - Re: Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags (J Riffel) 6. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Ron Lee) 7. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Scott) 8. 10:40 AM - was 406 ELT; now APRS (Sam Buchanan) 9. 10:46 AM - Re: was 406 ELT; now APRS (Scott) 10. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Ron Lee) 11. 04:04 PM - Re: Re: 406 ELT (Gordon or Marge) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:47 AM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT Kelly, Can you name the company coming out with the $600 ELT, and when they expect to have this in the marketplace? I'm needing one very soon for my almost completed RV-6A. This July I had an email exchange with Ameri-King's Victor Van, concerning their development of a 406 mhz unit. He said they had a 406 model AK-451 selling for $849 ready to ship. Did anyone take notice of this product, it was supposed to be displayed during Airventure at the Cessna Aircraft Booth inside the Cessna Skycatcher. Seem strange that I've not seen this yet on their web site and that Van's had not yet added to their Catalog. Time: 05:51:09 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT Some folks are too young to know or remember that the original ELTs were NEVER designed to be detected by satellites. Only 15 years after ELTs were mandated was satellites monitoring introduced. So you revert to the status ELTs had before 1985. If you really believe that being rescued in 8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is going to make that big a difference, feel free to spend the money. ELTs haven't had too many faults alarms, but a lot of false alarms. Some of us actually flew before the government cared whether anyone found us or not. You don't know much about radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie talkie range. The effective power of that ELT is about as good as your handheld radios in real life. People will still look for you, it just won't be on the basis of a satellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will still be required to monitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have the frequency. I'd think a jet pilot would know this, but guess not. At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product gets its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down. gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: > Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost > 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The > fact still remains, satellites are going dark, and really all you will > have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range of a kids walkie talkie. > > I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults > alarms every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because > they are registered and more accurate. > > Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT, > because no one will hear it. > * > * ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:32 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT http://www.ackavionics.com/index.html Emrath wrote: > > Kelly, > > Can you name the company coming out with the $600 ELT, and when they expect > to have this in the marketplace? I'm needing one very soon for my almost > completed RV-6A. > > This July I had an email exchange with Ameri-King's Victor Van, concerning > their development of a 406 mhz unit. He said they had a 406 model AK-451 > selling for $849 ready to ship. Did anyone take notice of this product, it > was supposed to be displayed during Airventure at the Cessna Aircraft Booth > inside the Cessna Skycatcher. > > Seem strange that I've not seen this yet on their web site and that Van's > had not yet added to their Catalog. > > > Time: 05:51:09 PM PST US > From: Kelly McMullen > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT > > > Some folks are too young to know or remember that the original ELTs were > NEVER designed to be detected by satellites. Only 15 years after ELTs > were mandated was satellites monitoring introduced. So you revert to the > status ELTs had before 1985. If you really believe that being rescued in > 8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is going to make that big a difference, > feel free to spend the money. ELTs haven't had too many faults alarms, > but a lot of false alarms. Some of us actually flew before the > government cared whether anyone found us or not. You don't know much > about radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie talkie range. The > effective power of that ELT is about as good as your handheld radios in > real life. > People will still look for you, it just won't be on the basis of a > satellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will still be required to > monitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have the frequency. I'd > think a jet pilot would know this, but guess not. > At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product > gets its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down. > > gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: > >> Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost >> 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The >> fact still remains, satellites are going dark, and really all you will >> have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range of a kids walkie talkie. >> >> I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults >> alarms every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because >> they are registered and more accurate. >> >> Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT, >> because no one will hear it. >> * >> * >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:55 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT Personally I have no concern whether someone buys a 406 MHz ELT. However, if the assertion that ELTs do not activate in around 50% of crashes is factual, why spend more on an ELT than you need to. It is not a reliable device to save you if you live or recover you if you die. If either of these two scenarios concern you then I suggest buying an inexpensive 121.5 MHz ELT just to satisfy FAA requirements. Then buy a Spot system and get the tracking service. An alternative is APRS but coverage may not be as good. It is less expensive. You have to evaluate each and determine which is better. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:16 AM PST US From: Scott Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT Of course, as a ham radio operator, I deplore the use of APRS UNLESS the user has an amateur radio license as IS REQUIRED by FCC rules. We hams have had to endure "pirate" use of our frequencies for years. So, if you do wish to use APRS, take a few days to study and pass your ham ticket and then go crazy with APRS. It could be a very useful tool should you ever find yourself in the need! Plus, you'll have another hobby should you lose your medical :) DO NOT ARCHIVE Scott Amateur radio station N0EDV Ron Lee wrote: > > Personally I have no concern whether someone buys a 406 MHz ELT. > However, if the assertion that ELTs do not activate in around 50% of > crashes is factual, why spend more on an ELT than you need to. It is > not a reliable device to save you if you live or recover you if you die. > > If either of these two scenarios concern you then I suggest buying an > inexpensive 121.5 MHz ELT just to satisfy FAA requirements. > > Then buy a Spot system and get the tracking service. An alternative > is APRS but coverage may not be as good. It is less expensive. You > have to evaluate each and determine which is better. > Ron Lee > > -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:48 AM PST US From: "J Riffel" Subject: RV-List: Re: Oiling and Starting New AeroSport Engine w/ 2 PMags Patrick, If by "CBs" you mean circuit breakers, then the answer is Yes (actually ATC fuses a la Nuckolls book). I also have disable switches for each PMag that turn that units power off Like you, I initially thought just disabling the power would allow me to crank the engine to get oil pressure without firing. BUT, that won't work for PMags because they've got an internal alternator that keeps them running if they loose ships power (which is one of the reasons I chose them - no dual batteries or aux alternator required). So if I crank the engine w/ both fuses pulled then the PMags would fire anyway because their own alternators would kick in. They only way they don't fire is if the P-lead is grounded. And when I turn the ignition switch to Start - both P-leads are ungrounded at that point. BTW, in case you're wondering why I have disable switches, the switches will be used on run-up to test that the engine Doesn't Stop when power is lost (ie that the internal alternator is working). I'll have to use the ignition switch to ground the P-lead to one PMag and use the disable switch to turn power off to the other PMag. If the engine continues to run then the internal alternator for that PMag is working fine. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:04 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT I never suggested using APRS without a license but should have mentioned that a HAM license is required. That may drive people to the Spot solution. Thanks for reminding me of that important element. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:44 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT > > Of course, as a ham radio operator, I deplore the use of APRS UNLESS > the user has an amateur radio license as IS REQUIRED by FCC rules. We > hams have had to endure "pirate" use of our frequencies for years. So, > if you do wish to use APRS, take a few days to study and pass your ham > ticket and then go crazy with APRS. It could be a very useful tool > should you ever find yourself in the need! Plus, you'll have another > hobby should you lose your medical :) DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Scott > Amateur radio station N0EDV > > Ron Lee wrote: > >> >> Personally I have no concern whether someone buys a 406 MHz ELT. >> However, if the assertion that ELTs do not activate in around 50% of >> crashes is factual, why spend more on an ELT than you need to. It is >> not a reliable device to save you if you live or recover you if you die. >> >> If either of these two scenarios concern you then I suggest buying an >> inexpensive 121.5 MHz ELT just to satisfy FAA requirements. >> >> Then buy a Spot system and get the tracking service. An alternative >> is APRS but coverage may not be as good. It is less expensive. You >> have to evaluate each and determine which is better. >> Ron Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Scott > http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ > Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 > Gotta Fly or Gonna Die > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:42 AM PST US From: Scott Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT Hi Ron, Oops...hope it didn't come off like I was personally attacking the messenger (You!)...That's one of the bad things with the Internet...there is no feedback that the other person can pick up and decide the context of the communication. I was only trying to point out that a license is required (as you noted) and I SURELY didn't mean to imply that you were suggesting anything illegal. Please accept my apology if you took personal offense to what I wrote before!!! None was intended!! I personally think APRS has value although I don't use it as of yet. I'd LOVE to see others get a ham ticket and explore some of the many facets of ham radio. After all, we all need something to do on rainy days :) If anyone wants to see some of the stuff I'm doing on ham radio, see http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ and click on "My Ham Radio Page" link in the left column. DO NOT ARCHIVE this one either ;) Scott Ron Lee wrote: > > I never suggested using APRS without a license but should have > mentioned that a HAM license is required. That may drive people > to the Spot solution. > > Thanks for reminding me of that important element. > > Ron Lee > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:44 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT > > >> >> Of course, as a ham radio operator, I deplore the use of APRS UNLESS >> the user has an amateur radio license as IS REQUIRED by FCC rules. >> We hams have had to endure "pirate" use of our frequencies for >> years. So, if you do wish to use APRS, take a few days to study and >> pass your ham ticket and then go crazy with APRS. It could be a very >> useful tool should you ever find yourself in the need! Plus, you'll >> have another hobby should you lose your medical :) DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> Scott >> Amateur radio station N0EDV >> >> Ron Lee wrote: >> >>> >>> Personally I have no concern whether someone buys a 406 MHz ELT. >>> However, if the assertion that ELTs do not activate in around 50% of >>> crashes is factual, why spend more on an ELT than you need to. It >>> is not a reliable device to save you if you live or recover you if >>> you die. >>> >>> If either of these two scenarios concern you then I suggest buying an >>> inexpensive 121.5 MHz ELT just to satisfy FAA requirements. >>> >>> Then buy a Spot system and get the tracking service. An alternative >>> is APRS but coverage may not be as good. It is less expensive. You >>> have to evaluate each and determine which is better. Ron Lee >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Scott >> http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ >> Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 >> Gotta Fly or Gonna Die >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:37 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: RV-List: was 406 ELT; now APRS Scott wrote: > > Of course, as a ham radio operator, I deplore the use of APRS UNLESS > the user has an amateur radio license as IS REQUIRED by FCC rules. We > hams have had to endure "pirate" use of our frequencies for years. So, > if you do wish to use APRS, take a few days to study and pass your ham > ticket and then go crazy with APRS. It could be a very useful tool > should you ever find yourself in the need! Plus, you'll have another > hobby should you lose your medical :) > > Scott > Amateur radio station N0EDV Scott, You are absolutely correct in stating that at least a Tech license is needed in order to operate/control an APRS tracker. APRS is a subject that has received a tremendous amount of interest and traffic on the VAF forum this year. In case you are not familiar with our forum (1060 posts), please take some time to browse: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=104 As you will find, those of us active on the forum have been very clear in pointing out the necessity of the radio license. Any members of this forum who have not yet explored APRS are welcome to join us on the VAF APRS forum. APRS is a fascinating application of digital radio technology that has wide ranging safety implications for aviation. Sam Buchanan track N399SB; http://aprs.fi/?call=N399SB&mt=m&z=10&timerange=3600 My APRS installation; http://thervjournal.com/tracker.htm ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:13 AM PST US From: Scott Subject: Re: RV-List: was 406 ELT; now APRS Sam, Thanks for the tip! I wasn't aware of an APRS forum on Doug's site. I will investigate promptly! :) Thanks again!! Scott DO NOT ARCHIVE Sam Buchanan wrote: > > Scott wrote: > >> >> Of course, as a ham radio operator, I deplore the use of APRS UNLESS >> the user has an amateur radio license as IS REQUIRED by FCC rules. >> We hams have had to endure "pirate" use of our frequencies for >> years. So, if you do wish to use APRS, take a few days to study and >> pass your ham ticket and then go crazy with APRS. It could be a very >> useful tool should you ever find yourself in the need! Plus, you'll >> have another hobby should you lose your medical :) >> Scott >> Amateur radio station N0EDV > > > Scott, > > You are absolutely correct in stating that at least a Tech license is > needed in order to operate/control an APRS tracker. > > APRS is a subject that has received a tremendous amount of interest > and traffic on the VAF forum this year. In case you are not familiar > with our forum (1060 posts), please take some time to browse: > > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=104 > > As you will find, those of us active on the forum have been very clear > in pointing out the necessity of the radio license. > > Any members of this forum who have not yet explored APRS are welcome > to join us on the VAF APRS forum. APRS is a fascinating application of > digital radio technology that has wide ranging safety implications for > aviation. > > Sam Buchanan > track N399SB; http://aprs.fi/?call=N399SB&mt=m&z=10&timerange=3600 > My APRS installation; http://thervjournal.com/tracker.htm > > -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:47 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT No problem. I should have mentioned the need for a license whenever I mention APRS and hopefully will every time in the future. Ron Lee Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT > > Hi Ron, > Oops...hope it didn't come off like I was personally attacking the > messenger (You!)...That's one of the bad things with the > Internet...there is no feedback that the other person can pick up and > decide the context of the communication. I was only trying to point out > that a license is required (as you noted) and I SURELY didn't mean to > imply that you were suggesting anything illegal. Please accept my > apology if you took personal offense to what I wrote before!!! None was > intended!! I personally think APRS has value although I don't use it as > of yet. I'd LOVE to see others get a ham ticket and explore some of the > many facets of ham radio. After all, we all need something to do on > rainy days :) If anyone wants to see some of the stuff I'm doing on ham > radio, see http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ and click on "My Ham Radio > Page" link in the left column. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE this one either ;) > > Scott > > > Ron Lee wrote: > >> >> I never suggested using APRS without a license but should have >> mentioned that a HAM license is required. That may drive people >> to the Spot solution. >> >> Thanks for reminding me of that important element. >> >> Ron Lee >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:44 AM >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT >> >> >>> >>> Of course, as a ham radio operator, I deplore the use of APRS UNLESS >>> the user has an amateur radio license as IS REQUIRED by FCC rules. >>> We hams have had to endure "pirate" use of our frequencies for >>> years. So, if you do wish to use APRS, take a few days to study and >>> pass your ham ticket and then go crazy with APRS. It could be a very >>> useful tool should you ever find yourself in the need! Plus, you'll >>> have another hobby should you lose your medical :) DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> Scott >>> Amateur radio station N0EDV >>> >>> Ron Lee wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Personally I have no concern whether someone buys a 406 MHz ELT. >>>> However, if the assertion that ELTs do not activate in around 50% of >>>> crashes is factual, why spend more on an ELT than you need to. It >>>> is not a reliable device to save you if you live or recover you if >>>> you die. >>>> >>>> If either of these two scenarios concern you then I suggest buying an >>>> inexpensive 121.5 MHz ELT just to satisfy FAA requirements. >>>> >>>> Then buy a Spot system and get the tracking service. An alternative >>>> is APRS but coverage may not be as good. It is less expensive. You >>>> have to evaluate each and determine which is better. Ron Lee >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Scott >>> http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ >>> Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 >>> Gotta Fly or Gonna Die >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Scott > http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ > Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 > Gotta Fly or Gonna Die > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:43 PM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emrath Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: 406 ELT Kelly, Can you name the company coming out with the $600 ELT, and when they expect to have this in the marketplace? I'm needing one very soon for my almost completed RV-6A. Kelly: I think you are referring to ACK. The last I knew the unit was ready except for the Friendlies formal anointing. Now their website says shipping in January 09. Gordon Comfort N363GC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.