Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:20 AM - What Members Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:55 AM - Re: 406 MHz ELT (Tim Bryan)
2. 06:49 AM - Re: 406 MHz ELT and RV8 ()
3. 09:06 AM - slider aft seal "lanyard" (Herron, Al)
4. 09:17 AM - Re: 406 MHz ELT (Greg Young)
5. 11:08 AM - Re: 406 MHz ELT (Tim Bryan)
6. 11:34 AM - Re: 406 MHz ELT (John Cox)
7. 12:19 PM - Re: 406 MHz ELT (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_B?=)
8. 02:28 PM - Re: 406 MHz ELT (Greg Young)
9. 03:01 PM - Re: 406 MHz ELT (Ron Lee)
10. 07:28 PM - FW: Cowl attachments (John Barrett)
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Subject: | What Members Are Saying... |
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Message 1
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I have my antenna mounted just in front of the vertical stabilizer. My
thinking was in a rollover the stabilizer *might* protect the antenna from
being smashed. Now I am wondering if the stabilizer causes any shielding of
the signal. Dean, any thoughts on that?
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB over 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN PSIROPOULOS
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:43 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
>
> <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
> When I was flying missions with Civil Air Patrol in the State of Oregon
> we
> had far more 121.5 ELT false alarms than real activations but...we
> responded
> to every one of them and learned some lessons along the way. Most of
> the
> missions I was associated with were production spam cans who had their
> antennas mounted on top of the fuselage behind the cockpit. Yes it's
> ugly
> but they put them there for a reason. When the ELT IS activated in a
> crash,
> these installations have the BEST chance of being located by search and
> rescue (SAR).
>
> Scott's waveguide premise is correct, the cockpit does make a great one
> and
> NO that is not helpful in getting one located and rescued in a timely
> manner. If you land (crash) right side up that waveguide will direct
> the ELT
> signal upward where the satellites will receive it. But, once the 121.5
> ELT
> is heard by the satellite and a SAR aircraft dispatched, the area to be
> searched is still quite large. The SAR aircraft has to be able to
> "hear" the
> ELT in order to pinpoint you. If your installation is in the cockpit
> then
> this waveguide effect means that the SAR aircraft's direction finding
> (DF)
> equipment needs to be A LOT closer to you to pick up the signal. That
> takes
> more time in the grid and eats up precious time getting help to a
> stricken
> pilot who may be badly injured.
>
> This waveguide effect was brought home to me quite vividly on one CAP
> practice mission where our incident commander placed the ELT inside a
> metal
> garbage can and then tipped the can on its side with the open end
> facing a
> mountain peak. We spent hours with the direction finder pointed at the
> mountain listening to the reflected signal from the garbage can
> waveguide
> and searched all over that mountain but never located the "stricken"
> aircraft. A frustrating exercise but very eye opening.
>
> John is correct, the practical value of "hiding" the ELT antenna along
> the
> roll bar or under the tail fairing is ZILCH!!! I just finished my RV-
> 6A and
> mounted the ELT antenna on the top of the fuselage behind the sliding
> canopy. Yup it's ugly sticking up there but...if I do go down and the
> unit
> is activated, that location gives me the best chance of being found as
> fast
> as possible. Yes I know the activation rate is not that great
> but...you
> spent good money on and are installing a tool that could save your life
> in
> an emergency so why not give yourself the best chance of having it do
> some
> good.
>
> Since 406 MHz ELTs still use radio waves to perform their magic,
> everything
> I just mentioned applies. There will be a lot fewer false alarms on
> the 406
> ELTs IF AND ONLY IF all you aviators out there fill out your
> registration
> cards and mail them in. Then, when the USAF search and rescue center
> gets
> your signal they can phone you right away and find out whether it's
> just a
> false alarm or a real emergency. The good news is, if it's a real
> emergency
> the satellites will pick up your 406 MHz signal quicker and locate you
> within a smaller radius of area. The only down side is for the SAR
> team,
> the 406 ELTs send out a burst of data every so often as opposed to the
> continuous transmission of the 121.5 units. This makes DF tracking a
> little
> more difficult but you should still be found much more quickly than
> before.
>
>
> Recommendation: read the instructions that come with your unit and
> mount the
> antenna where they say to do so. If no instruction, mount on top of the
> wing
> or fuselage in an open area with the least potential for reflections.
> And
> PLEASE PLEASE register your unit. I live in Florida now where boaters
> have
> had 406 MHz EPIRBs for a long time. Problem is, there are still lots of
> false alarms because boaters have a dismal record of registering their
> units!! Fill out that card and send it in.
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> First flight scheduled for this Saturday.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | 406 MHz ELT and RV8 |
I think you can put it on top off center-line just aft of the sliding canopy?
>From: = <michele.delsol@microsigma.fr>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT and RV8
>
>I changed the subject because I feel that there is a definite issue as
>to ELT mounting on RV8s as Skylor mentioned.
>
>The canopy slides back all the way against the vertical stabilizer
>fairing ' so that leaves no room on the back deck.
Message 3
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Subject: | slider aft seal "lanyard" |
Slider canopy builders: Van's plans call for attaching the C-679 "slide
seal" (the little nylon doohickey that follows the canopy like a
Chihuahua on a leash) with either nylon fishing line or 1/16" aircraft
cable. The fishing line I didn't think would last very long, and I
found that the aircraft cable was scratching a nasty groove in the
slider rail. I came up with an idea I think works a little better: I
used a 0.012" stainless "tape", or strap, instead. Easy to make,
durable, and doesn't damage the rail. I've posted a diagram in
yesterday's (11/17) RV List as a photoshare (PDF file):
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/herronpvf@sbcglobal.net.11.17.2008
Message 4
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Regardless of where you choose to mount the antenna and for whatever reason,
consider the routing of the cable from the ELT to the antenna. If you route
it through or near bulkheads or metal edges, it can be severed in a crash.
My ELT was mounted on the keel by the elevator bellcrank in my -6, the
antenna on the seatback cross member and the cable routed under the baggage
floor and thru the rear spar bulkhead. Although my crash was upright, the
cable was severed by the crushed and twisted structure. No signal was ever
detected. I'm keeping the cable for the new one inside the tailcone with the
antenna somewhere back there too.
Regards,
Greg Young
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Jerry Springer
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:55 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
>
>
> DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
> >--> <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> >I just finished my RV-6A and
> >mounted the ELT antenna on the top of the fuselage behind
> the sliding
> >canopy. Yup it's ugly sticking up there but...if I do go
> down and the
> >unit is activated, that location gives me the best chance of being
> >found as fast as possible.
> >
> >Dean Psiropoulos
> >RV-6A N197DM
> >First flight scheduled for this Saturday.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Of course it well not do much good if you are inverted and
> the antenna is bent over against the fuselage or is broken off.
> I am one of those people that mounted mine inside under the
> roll over frame on a tip up, it has just as much chance of
> working there as anywhere else.
>
> Jerry
Message 5
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Excellent point Greg! I mounted my ELT in the baggage compartment up
against the baggage closure and the cable runs through the tail cone but not
through any holes. It is tie wired to the formers and hopefully that
wouldn't be an issue. I hadn't thought of that, just did it that way as it
was easy.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB over 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:17 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
>
>
> Regardless of where you choose to mount the antenna and for whatever
> reason,
> consider the routing of the cable from the ELT to the antenna. If you
> route
> it through or near bulkheads or metal edges, it can be severed in a
> crash.
> My ELT was mounted on the keel by the elevator bellcrank in my -6, the
> antenna on the seatback cross member and the cable routed under the
> baggage
> floor and thru the rear spar bulkhead. Although my crash was upright,
> the
> cable was severed by the crushed and twisted structure. No signal was
> ever
> detected. I'm keeping the cable for the new one inside the tailcone
> with the
> antenna somewhere back there too.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
Message 6
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Bob Collins asked a question that has not yet been directly answered.
The question I wanted expanded was to clarify for the masses that 121.5
ELTs have been installed without much consideration for intended
function. Vanity and foolhearty following the builder before you leads
to widely accepted misunderstandings. "Oh, I did it because twenty
other guys in my EAA chapter have done the same thing and it seemed
okay".
Stein has not answered if he can measure the strength and directional
pattern or who else might. Bob is still waiting for more clarity.
Several have made excellent posts. My question remaining is what is the
required polarity needed (Horizontal or Vertical), how will that antenna
installed work in the event the required device is needed as in the case
of Steve Fossett. Several posters added anecdotes on lives lost because
ELTS don't work as needed (which may often be because of installation
errors). We should all know those errors. We should know how effective
our installed antennae are working. We should be protective of the
distance and routing of the coax (Bob's question). Just because you can
get an annunciation during a test function does not mean that the
aircraft can be located before the battery goes dead from a few thousand
yards away.
Antenna propagation is still on the table. The idea of a belly mounted
antenna because so many flip over or are stuck nose down is an
interesting one.
John Cox
W7COX
RV builder #40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
Excellent point Greg! I mounted my ELT in the baggage compartment up
against the baggage closure and the cable runs through the tail cone but
not
through any holes. It is tie wired to the formers and hopefully that
wouldn't be an issue. I hadn't thought of that, just did it that way as
it
was easy.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB over 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:17 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
>
>
> Regardless of where you choose to mount the antenna and for whatever
> reason,
> consider the routing of the cable from the ELT to the antenna. If you
> route
> it through or near bulkheads or metal edges, it can be severed in a
> crash.
> My ELT was mounted on the keel by the elevator bellcrank in my -6, the
> antenna on the seatback cross member and the cable routed under the
> baggage
> floor and thru the rear spar bulkhead. Although my crash was upright,
> the
> cable was severed by the crushed and twisted structure. No signal was
> ever
> detected. I'm keeping the cable for the new one inside the tailcone
> with the
> antenna somewhere back there too.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
Message 7
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I had asked the question - how about two antennas, one top side and one
belly mounted, via a splitter. Is that an option ?
Thanks,
Michle
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de John Cox
Envoy: mardi 18 novembre 2008 20:34
: rv-list@matronics.com
Objet: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
Bob Collins asked a question that has not yet been directly answered.
The question I wanted expanded was to clarify for the masses that 121.5
ELTs have been installed without much consideration for intended
function. Vanity and foolhearty following the builder before you leads
to widely accepted misunderstandings. "Oh, I did it because twenty
other guys in my EAA chapter have done the same thing and it seemed
okay".
Stein has not answered if he can measure the strength and directional
pattern or who else might. Bob is still waiting for more clarity.
Several have made excellent posts. My question remaining is what is the
required polarity needed (Horizontal or Vertical), how will that antenna
installed work in the event the required device is needed as in the case
of Steve Fossett. Several posters added anecdotes on lives lost because
ELTS don't work as needed (which may often be because of installation
errors). We should all know those errors. We should know how effective
our installed antennae are working. We should be protective of the
distance and routing of the coax (Bob's question). Just because you can
get an annunciation during a test function does not mean that the
aircraft can be located before the battery goes dead from a few thousand
yards away.
Antenna propagation is still on the table. The idea of a belly mounted
antenna because so many flip over or are stuck nose down is an
interesting one.
John Cox
W7COX
RV builder #40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
Excellent point Greg! I mounted my ELT in the baggage compartment up
against the baggage closure and the cable runs through the tail cone but
not
through any holes. It is tie wired to the formers and hopefully that
wouldn't be an issue. I hadn't thought of that, just did it that way as
it
was easy.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB over 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:17 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
>
>
> Regardless of where you choose to mount the antenna and for whatever
> reason,
> consider the routing of the cable from the ELT to the antenna. If you
> route
> it through or near bulkheads or metal edges, it can be severed in a
> crash.
> My ELT was mounted on the keel by the elevator bellcrank in my -6, the
> antenna on the seatback cross member and the cable routed under the
> baggage
> floor and thru the rear spar bulkhead. Although my crash was upright,
> the
> cable was severed by the crushed and twisted structure. No signal was
> ever
> detected. I'm keeping the cable for the new one inside the tailcone
> with the
> antenna somewhere back there too.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
Message 8
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Another reality is access after the crash may not be easy or even possible
if you're thinking you can actually use the portability feature of the ELT.
Fasteners that were normally accessible may be blocked by bent metal or even
bent themselves. I had to cut a hole to get mine out of the salvage. EPLB's
probably make more sense if you want to assure use in the aftermath.
Regards,
Greg Young
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:00 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: 406 MHz ELT
>
>
> Excellent point Greg! I mounted my ELT in the baggage
> compartment up against the baggage closure and the cable runs
> through the tail cone but not through any holes. It is tie
> wired to the formers and hopefully that wouldn't be an issue.
> I hadn't thought of that, just did it that way as it was easy.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Flying
> N616TB over 100 hours now
>
Message 9
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EPLB's > probably make more sense if you want to assure use in the
aftermath.
PLBs...unless the terms have changed. EPIRBs are boat units.
Ron Lee
Message 10
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Subject: | FW: Cowl attachments |
I have posted some new pages on the Carbinge website showing Art Bertolina's
beautiful Lancair IV cowling assembled with Carbinge and Carbinge keepers.
See this URL:
http://carbinge.com/cowl_attach.htm
Additionally there is a page that explains how Art achieved this result:
http://carbinge.com/Schematic%20of%20complete%20cowl%20attachment.htm
Regards,
John Barrett, CEO
Leading Edge Composites
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
www.carbinge.com
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