Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:39 AM - Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? (Kevin Horton)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: Need info (John Bright)
3. 05:45 AM - Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? (Tracy Crook)
4. 06:01 AM - Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? (Tracy Crook)
5. 06:07 AM - Re: Need info (dan@rdan.com)
6. 06:41 AM - Tube flaring (Ron Lee)
7. 06:41 AM - Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? (Kelly McMullen)
8. 07:53 AM - Flyboy Accessories (Frazier, Vincent A)
9. 07:54 AM - Re: Need info (Brian Huffaker)
10. 11:41 AM - Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? (Kevin Horton)
11. 12:02 PM - Re:Tube flairing (Dale Ensing)
12. 02:06 PM - Re: Need info (Gordon or Marge)
13. 05:01 PM - help (bert murillo)
14. 05:03 PM - question (bert murillo)
15. 05:19 PM - Re: question (Robert Cutter)
16. 05:21 PM - Re: help (scott bilinski)
17. 05:24 PM - Re: help (Bob)
18. 07:22 PM - Re: Re:Tube flairing (dan@rdan.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? |
The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of
rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into
account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on
an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73%
power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.
If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed
prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the
power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for
the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if
they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet:
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401
Kevin Horton
On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These
> rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on
> installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.
>
> J Riffel wrote:
>> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart
>> for the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
>> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
>> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>> (99hp) map map map
>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> ...
>> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>> (117hp) map map map
>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> ...
>> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>> (135hp) map map map
>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>> ...
>> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
>> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for
>> DAYS. But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20
>> minutes what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart
>> is built to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP.
>> Instead I need a table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've
>> been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and
>> Superior and they just think I can't read their table.
>> Thanks in Advance.
>> *
>>
>> *
--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
Message 2
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What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?=0A=0Ado no
t archive=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Vanremog@aol
.com" <Vanremog@aol.com>=0ATo: rv-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, Dece
mber 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Need info=0A=0AAnother thi
ng builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp =0Awheel tube c
utters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this =0Aarea an
d end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but you are =0Agoing
to have to cut the tubing slightly greater than final size =0Aand then fil
e off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft =0Amaterial. This is
akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the =0Amechanically punched
holes in skins in order to remove the slight area =0Aof work hardened mater
ial.=0A =0A =0AN1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon =0AValle
y) =0A =0AIn a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
=0Aeanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:=0AJim, I=92m not an A&P, so not certa
in what the correct answer to your question should be about using emery cl
oth. Ideally, the answer is to buy one of those very expensive =93double
flair=94 makers ' it folds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth
joint. No, I didn=92t spring for one either {:>)=0A =0A =0A But, one thing
you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the ends as much as pos
sible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to bigger cracks when you fl
air. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are caused by having
too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flaring, that leads to
over stretching and ragged edges. No I don=92t know of the magic formula
' but there probably is one somewhere. =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0AMake your life easier with all your friends, e=new-
=======================0A=0A=0A
=0A
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? |
Hate to sound critical, but I have to agree with Lycoming. Do you have a
tach? Do you have MP gauge? If so, what is the problem? Altitude has
almost nothing to do with it other than a small effect on pumping losses
which can safely be ignored in this case.
Tracy Crook
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:16 PM, J Riffel <riffeljl@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the
> Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
>
> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (99hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
>
> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (117hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
>
> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (135hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
>
> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I
> defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to
> use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an
> altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can
> run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both
> Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table.
>
> Thanks in Advance.
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? |
Wow, this looks like about 20 HP in pumping losses at sea level at 23" MP.
Sounds like a lot. I'm interested, where did you get those figures? I've
been using figures a bit lower than this in my engine and instrument
development.
But as long as we are ignoring fuel flow, the effect of mixture on HP is
pretty big. All the commercial pilots I've flown with use the fuel flow
gauge to set power.
The physics are the same in all of them but maybe I have underestimated the
differences between Lycoming and auto engines.
Tracy Crook
Mazda rotary powered RV-4
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of rpm
> and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into account. The
> usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on an O-360-A engine,
> 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73% power at sea level, 77% power
> at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.
>
> If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed prop
> that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the power
> chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for the IO-360-B
> engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if they are close, you
> could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet:
>
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
> On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These rule
>> of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on installation. If you
>> want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.
>>
>> J Riffel wrote:
>>
>>> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the
>>> Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
>>> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
>>> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>>> (99hp) map map map
>>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> ...
>>> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>>> (117hp) map map map
>>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> ...
>>> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>>> (135hp) map map map
>>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> ...
>>> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
>>> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I
>>> defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to
>>> use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an
>>> altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can
>>> run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both
>>> Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table.
>>> Thanks in Advance.
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa, Canada
>
>
Message 5
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Does any lubricant like boelube help with the cuttting of flairing process?
--- On Fri, 12/5/08, John Bright <john_s_bright@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: John Bright <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?
do not archive
From: "Vanremog@aol.com" <Vanremog@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp whee
l tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this ar
ea and end up with cracks.- You can use this type of cutter but you are g
oing to have to cut the tubing slightly-greater than-final-size and t
hen file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft material.- T
his is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the mechanically-pun
ched holes in-skins in order to remove the slight area of work hardened m
aterial.
-
-
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)-
-
In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eanderson@
carolina.rr.com writes:
Jim, I=92m not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to your quest
ion should be about using emery cloth.- Ideally, the answer is to buy one
of those very expensive =93double flair=94 makers ' it folds that ragged
end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn=92t spring for one eith
er {:>)
-
-
-But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the end
s as much as possible after cutting them.- Small cracks lead to bigger cr
acks when you flair.- The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are
caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flarin
g, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges.- No I don=92t know of
the magic formula -' but there probably is one somewhere.
-
-
Make your life easier with all your friends, e=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vani
ty&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it now.
Message 6
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|
Just a suggestion folks. Thi subject..or whatever you prefer, makes
more
sense from an archive point of view.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Bright
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "Vanremog@aol.com" <Vanremog@aol.com>
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp
wheel tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair
this area and end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but
you are going to have to cut the tubing slightly greater than final size
and then file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft
material. This is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the
mechanically punched holes in skins in order to remove the slight area
of work hardened material.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
Jim, I=92m not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to
your question should be about using emery cloth. Ideally, the answer is
to buy one of those very expensive =93double flair=94 makers ' it
folds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn=92t
spring for one either {:>)
But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth
the ends as much as possible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to
bigger cracks when you flair. The second thing is that frequently
ragged ends are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of
the clamp for flaring, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges.
No I don=92t know of the magic formula ' but there probably is one
somewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Make your life easier with all your friends,
e=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it
now.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? |
That is one very good induction system if you can get 23" at 8000 ft.
In my Mooney owners manual, for its IO-360A1A, 2500 and 23" at 7500 is
151 hp, or 75.5%. However, with the IO-360-A3B6 engine it takes 25
squared, supposedly, to get 75% even though the J model with that engine
has a significantly better induction system than my older Mooney.
Obviously the B series engine is only rated for 180hp, so the 75% number
will be 180hp
There is nothing magic about 75% or 70% or any other round number. Many
production aircraft now show 78% for their marketing desired cruise
numbers. The engines are generally rated for continuous use at 100%
power. One just needs to use mixture settings appropriate to the power.
If you choose to operate lean of peak EGT, the fuel flow will entirely
control the power, such that 10gph will be 149 horsepower on the
normally aspirated IO-360A series with standard compression. For the B
series a 75% figure would be 9.0 gph to give 135 hp.
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of
> rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into
> account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on
> an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73%
> power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.
>
> If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed
> prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the
> power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for
> the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if
> they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet:
>
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
> On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These
>> rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on
>> installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.
>>
>> J Riffel wrote:
>>> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for
>>> the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
>>> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
>>> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>>> (99hp) map map map
>>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> ...
>>> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>>> (117hp) map map map
>>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> ...
>>> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
>>> (135hp) map map map
>>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
>>> ...
>>> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
>>> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS.
>>> But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes
>>> what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built
>>> to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a
>>> table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an
>>> altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they
>>> just think I can't read their table.
>>> Thanks in Advance.
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>
>
> --
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa, Canada
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Flyboy Accessories |
SNIP<<<<Subject: RV-List: boysaccessories info.
Hi:
I am trying to contact the Flyboysaccessories, but I do not see their
phone no. or e mail address on their web page.
Trying to order some wingwalk....
Any one has their tel. no.?
thanks
bert>>>>>> SNIP
Bert,
Simply click on the "Contact Us" link. It's on the left side of every
page.
FWIW, our wingwalk material is at this URL:
http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info
&cPath=1&products_id 7
It is $6/running foot and is 12" wide, black, non-abrasive and self
adhesive.
Thanks,
Vince Frazier
http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/
Flyboy Accessories
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 office M-TH
812-985-7309 shop Fri-Sun
Message 9
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On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, dan@rdan.com wrote:
> Does any lubricant like boelube help with the cuttting of flairing process?
the instructions that came withmy flaring tool said to put a drop of oil
on the cone. Never tried using it without, so don't know how much
difference it makes.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 fitting fuel vent tubing.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: IO-360-B Power Chart? |
Those numbers come from a spreadsheet that replicates the Lycoming
power chart. It isn't a perfect match to Lycoming's chart, but it is
fairly close. Just as a cross check, I went into the chart to confirm
what it says. I made that spreadsheet a long time ago, and I now see
that the current Lycoming Operator's Manual has a newer power chart,
which is quite different. My old one is based on Lycoming curve 10350-
A (I have a copy in my filing cabinent). My newer Lycoming manual has
curve 13358.
Looking at 2500 rpm and 23", I get the following powers from (in
order) my old spreadsheet, Lycoming curve 10350-A and Lycoming curve
13358:
sea level:
131 hp (73%), 131 hp (73%), 123 hp (68%)
4000 ft:
139 hp (77%), 139 hp (77%), 134 hp (74%)
8000 ft:
147 hp (82%), 146 hp (81%), 144 hp (80%)
I won't attempt to guess why there is such a large difference between
these two Lycoming power charts, both of which are for the O-360-A and
-C series engines. I don't completely understand why they show such a
large difference in power with altitude, but I suspect it goes beyond
pumping losses. I suspect there is better cylinder scavenging, and
better cylinder filling if there is less exhaust back pressure.
Kevin Horton
On 5-Dec-08, at 09:01 , Tracy Crook wrote:
> Wow, this looks like about 20 HP in pumping losses at sea level at
> 23" MP. Sounds like a lot. I'm interested, where did you get
> those figures? I've been using figures a bit lower than this in my
> engine and instrument development.
>
> But as long as we are ignoring fuel flow, the effect of mixture on
> HP is pretty big. All the commercial pilots I've flown with use the
> fuel flow gauge to set power.
>
> The physics are the same in all of them but maybe I have
> underestimated the differences between Lycoming and auto engines.
>
> Tracy Crook
> Mazda rotary powered RV-4
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
> wrote:
>
> The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds
> of rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into
> account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on
> an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73%
> power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft.
>
> If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed
> prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy
> the power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart
> for the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A
> engines. if they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power
> spreadsheet:
>
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
> On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These
> rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on
> installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43.
>
> J Riffel wrote:
> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for
> the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine?
> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this
> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (99hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (117hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM
> (135hp) map map map
> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n
> ...
> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and
> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS.
> But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes
> what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built
> to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a
> table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an
> altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they
> just think I can't read their table.
> Thanks in Advance.
> *
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa, Canada
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re:Tube flairing |
Yes, I always use a form of Boelube and it gives a very smooth cut and fini
sh to the flair.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: dan@rdan.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
Does any lubricant like boelube help with the cuttting of flairing
process?
--- On Fri, 12/5/08, John Bright <john_s_bright@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: John Bright <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 4:54 AM
What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?
do not archive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Vanremog@aol.com" <Vanremog@aol.com>
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those
sharp wheel tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to fla
ir this area and end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but y
ou are going to have to cut the tubing slightly greater than final size and
then file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft material. T
his is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the mechanically punch
ed holes in skins in order to remove the slight area of work hardened mater
ial.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
Jim, I=92m not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer t
o your question should be about using emery cloth. Ideally, the answer is
to buy one of those very expensive =93double flair=94 makers ' it folds t
hat ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn=92t spring fo
r one either {:>)
But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth
the ends as much as possible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to big
ger cracks when you flair. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends
are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for fl
aring, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges. No I don=92t know o
f the magic formula ' but there probably is one somewhere.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message 12
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Bright
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?
John et al: A procedure you might try that has worked for me is:
saw cut the tubing
clamp in flaring vise slightly proud
file flush with vise using a mill smooth file
chamfer tubing i.d. end with countersink and deburr outer
diameter with scraping tool
blow and/or wash out chips
form flare with a lightly lubricated cone
inspect and clean as necessary
The vise that I have with my flaring set does not have a conical female
form
but rather a radiused shoulder that provides a match with the sleeve you
will use. The cone forms the flare but only irons the metal at the
radius
in the vise. The RV-4 has been flying since 1993 with no leaks or flare
failures.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 13
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Hi: I have posted a message boefore but no answer.
Does any one have the tel. no. for " Flyboy Accesories"?
Some mentioned they sell the wing walk material, which I want to order.
but did not go thru... Are they in business now, or not?
I tried sending email lbut neither ...\\
Appreciate any info.
Bert
rv6a
do not archive
Message 14
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Hi:
Does any one know where I can buy the material, to make the blocks,
that support the sliding cannopy, on rear sides.
Is the white maeterial, I know I can order from Van's, but the shipping
is going to cost me more than the piece of material..
I do not know the technical name for this..
Any help appreciated.
bert
rv6a
do not archive
Message 15
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Bert,
It is called UHMW and you can buy it at a local rubber and gasket store.
Mill supply stores may carry it as well.
RVRC
----- Original Message -----
From: "bert murillo" <robertrv607@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: RV-List: question
>
> Hi:
>
>
> Does any one know where I can buy the material, to make the blocks,
> that support the sliding cannopy, on rear sides.
>
> Is the white maeterial, I know I can order from Van's, but the shipping
> is going to cost me more than the piece of material..
>
> I do not know the technical name for this..
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> bert
>
> rv6a
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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On their web site under contact us: 812-464-1839
Scott
----- Original Message ----
From: bert murillo <robertrv607@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 4:59:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: help
Hi: I have posted a message boefore but no answer.
Does any one have the tel. no. for " Flyboy Accesories"?
Some mentioned they sell the wing walk material, which I want to order.
but did not go thru... Are they in business now, or not?
I tried sending email lbut neither ...\\
Appreciate any info.
Bert
rv6a
do not archive
Message 17
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bert murillo wrote:
>
> Hi: I have posted a message boefore but no answer.
>
> Does any one have the tel. no. for " Flyboy Accesories"?
> Some mentioned they sell the wing walk material, which I want to order.
> but did not go thru... Are they in business now, or not?
>
>
> I tried sending email lbut neither ...\\
>
>
> Appreciate any info.
>
> Bert
>
> rv6a
>
>
> do not archive
>
Bert,
United States Plastic sells UHMW in quite a few different "styles".
They also sell thin UHMW self adhesive tape that's great for "rub
protection" like where the flaps rub on the bottom of the top wing skin.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp?cookie_test=1
Bob Skinner (former RV builder and flyer)
Message 18
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Subject: | Re:Tube flairing |
Today I received from Aircraft tool supply my Parker 37* flaring tool, wow
this thing is very cool, a nice piece of hardware.
The first practice flair looked just about perfect,
This thing will work, thanks for- the education,
Dan -8
--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Dale Ensing <densing@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
From: Dale Ensing <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re:Tube flairing
Yes, I always use a form of Boelube and it gives a very smooth cut and-fi
nish to the flair.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: dan@rdan.com
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
Does any lubricant like boelube help with the cuttting of flairing process?
--- On Fri, 12/5/08, John Bright <john_s_bright@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: John Bright <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
#yiv570456825 #yiv1921419571 DIV {
MARGIN:0px;}
What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?
do not archive
From: "Vanremog@aol.com" <Vanremog@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info
Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp whee
l tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this ar
ea and end up with cracks.- You can use this type of cutter but you are g
oing to have to cut the tubing slightly-greater than-final-size and t
hen file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft material.- T
his is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the mechanically-pun
ched holes in-skins in order to remove the slight area of work hardened m
aterial.
-
-
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)-
-
In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eanderson@
carolina.rr.com writes:
Jim, I=92m not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to your quest
ion should be about using emery cloth.- Ideally, the answer is to buy one
of those very expensive =93double flair=94 makers ' it folds that ragged
end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn=92t spring for one eith
er {:>)
-
-
-But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the end
s as much as possible after cutting them.- Small cracks lead to bigger cr
acks when you flair.- The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are
caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flarin
g, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges.- No I don=92t know of
the magic formula -' but there probably is one somewhere.
-
-
Make your life easier with all your friends, e=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vani
ty&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it now.
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
ics.com
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