---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/26/09: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:21 AM - Alternator failure (Bob-tcw) 2. 09:40 AM - Re: Alternator failure (Bill Boyd) 3. 10:05 AM - Re: Alternator failure (Tim Olson) 4. 10:48 AM - Re: Alternator failure (Bob-tcw) 5. 01:32 PM - Re: Recall: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty) 6. 04:25 PM - Re: Recall: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (Bret Smith) 7. 06:58 PM - Re: Recall: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (linn Walters) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:37 AM PST US From: "Bob-tcw" Subject: RV-List: Alternator failure Fellow builders, I'd like to share a little adventure we had last week and how it may impact my RV-10 project. My Dad and I were cruising along at 8500' enroute from PA down to FL in our Glastar when I noticed an annoying red light on the instrument panel. That little red light of course was a low voltage warning light, and sure enough we were on battery power at that point, the alternator was doing nothing useful at all. We requested a landing at Charlottesville VA, KCHO and within 15 minutes were on the ground. They let us bring our airplane inside a heated hangar to sort out our electrical problems. We'll we got the true southern hospitality treatment. A mechanic came over and offered us the use of any of his tools that we needed (although he was way to busy to work on our plane). We removed the cowling and then the alternator and ohmed out the field winding of the alternator, it appeared to be an open circuit. The alternator was a Ford Motorcraft as originally supplied with our 1960's vintage Lycoming 0-320. (however it had been rebuilt in 2001, and now had about 350 hours of run time) We asked the mechanic if he had any recommendations on a place to check and possibly replace our 'Ford' alternator. He said, "Sure, I'll call Advanced Autoparts, I think they have an alternator "spinner"". Sure enough, they did. So the mechanic gave us the keys to his truck and we visited the aviation department of Advanced Autoparts. Well the alternator was really dead and they actually had the exact replacement in stock! So $57 later we were back on our way to the airport. Well we put it all back together and sure enough we were back in business, the aircraft bus voltage was back up to 14 volts!. We thanked everyone over and over, took on some fuel and just over 2.5 hours after discovering the problem we were back in the air. We were incredibly fortunate that day to meet such wonderful folks as we did at KCHO. But we also really enjoyed the benefits of building and flying a homebuilt. There is no way that we would have been able to continue our journey that day if we were flying a certified aircraft, There were no mechanics that could spend their time working on our airplane on that day, And almost certainly they would have had to order a new alternator (that wouldn't have been $57!). So the lessons learned that I'm going to apply to my RV-10: 1) Low voltage idiot lights work, they are a must have in my book 2) Although we were able to safely make it to an alternate airport on battery power, a back-up alternator equipped engine really ups the convenience factor. We were incredibly lucky to get our airplane fixed and flying again the same day. If we had a back-up alternator and were flying VFR as we were, we would have probably just continued on our way to Florida. 3) Bring a decent tool kit, We had the very basic tools in our airplane tool kit, but I'm now going to add a small DMM (multi-meter) to the kit. 4) A condensed set of basic wiring schematics for the airplane could have been a necessity. If the alternator wasn't the problem, I really would have had a difficult time trouble shooting much more as I was working completely from memory on how I wired the plane (almost 10 years ago). Bob Newman TCW Technologies, LLC. www.tcwtech.com RV-10 40176 - finish kit ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator failure From: Bill Boyd Good write-up. Thanks for sharing. I've only diverted once to CHO, despite its proximity to my home base; didn't need mechanical help, just a place to lay low while the winds in the mountains expended their fury and the turbulence abated. DMM and wiring diagrams not currently in the plane, but yes, they should be ;-) Bill B -6A, 730 hrs. On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Bob-tcw wrote: > Fellow builders, > > I'd like to share a little adventure we had last week and how it may > impact my RV-10 project. > My Dad and I were cruising along at 8500' enroute from PA down to FL in our > Glastar when I noticed an annoying red light on the instrument panel. That > little red light of course was a low voltage warning light, and sure enough > we were on battery power at that point, the alternator was doing nothing > useful at all. We requested a landing at Charlottesville VA, KCHO and > within 15 minutes were on the ground. They let us bring our airplane inside > a heated hangar to sort out our electrical problems. We'll we got the true > southern hospitality treatment. A mechanic came over and offered us the > use of any of his tools that we needed (although he was way to busy to work > on our plane). We removed the cowling and then the alternator and ohmed out > the field winding of the alternator, it appeared to be an open > circuit. The alternator was a Ford Motorcraft as originally supplied with > our 1960's vintage Lycoming 0-320. (however it had been rebuilt in > 2001, and now had about 350 hours of run time) We asked the mechanic if he > had any recommendations on a place to check and possibly replace our 'Ford' > alternator. He said, "Sure, I'll call Advanced Autoparts, I think they have > an alternator "spinner"". Sure enough, they did. So the mechanic gave us > the keys to his truck and we visited the aviation department of Advanced > Autoparts. Well the alternator was really dead and they actually had the > exact replacement in stock! So $57 later we were back on our way to the > airport. Well we put it all back together and sure enough we were back in > business, the aircraft bus voltage was back up to 14 volts!. We thanked > everyone over and over, took on some fuel and just over 2.5 hours after > discovering the problem we were back in the air. We were incredibly > fortunate that day to meet such wonderful folks as we did at KCHO. But we > also really enjoyed the benefits of building and flying a homebuilt. > There is no way that we would have been able to continue our journey that > day if we were flying a certified aircraft, There were no mechanics that > could spend their time working on our airplane on that day, And almost > certainly they would have had to order a new alternator (that wouldn't have > been $57!). > > So the lessons learned that I'm going to apply to my RV-10: > 1) Low voltage idiot lights work, they are a must have in my book > 2) Although we were able to safely make it to an alternate airport on > battery power, a back-up alternator equipped engine really ups the > convenience factor. We were incredibly lucky to get our airplane fixed and > flying again the same day. If we had a back-up alternator and were flying > VFR as we were, we would have probably just continued on our way to > Florida. > 3) Bring a decent tool kit, We had the very basic tools in our > airplane tool kit, but I'm now going to add a small DMM (multi-meter) to > the kit. > 4) A condensed set of basic wiring schematics for the airplane could > have been a necessity. If the alternator wasn't the problem, I really > would have had a difficult time trouble shooting much more as I was working > completely from memory on how I wired the plane (almost 10 years ago). > > > Bob Newman > TCW Technologies, LLC. > www.tcwtech.com > RV-10 40176 - finish kit > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:10 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator failure Great report Bob! Glad it worked out for you. Regarding your lessons learned: 1) Definitely. Most EFIS's and EIS's will have that in it these days, so it should be easy to get warnings. 2) You MAY have been able to continue with a backup alternator, but, for a long x/c trip, it might not be safe or practical. But, it does bring up the idea of what exactly is a backup alternator good for.... If you had the SD-8, it wouldn't really buy you anything for continuing the trip...because nobody wants to continue a long trip where they only can use 8A worth of equipment. If you had a 20A backup, you'd perhaps be able to continue more or less unaffected, after shedding some more minimal loads. That's not saying it's a good idea, but it makes it more practical than an 8A alternator. 3) Absolutely! I've bought about a dozen of those Harbor Freight cheap DMM's...it seems every time they go on sale for $1.99 each, I buy one and give it to someone. I keep one in my cars, my boat, the plane, the hangar, my desk at home and work...basically handy everywhere. I even used one on my first-flight day to find a loose alternator connection. 4) Yeah, it's a good idea to have that documentation. When I carry my tablet PC with me, I keep an entire copy of my websites, and everything, which house all of my drawings, database updates for my GPS's/EFIS, software updates, and all that stuff. It's one of the benefits of tablet PC's over stand-alone units...you can program a memory card right in the field and fix something if you need to. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Bob-tcw wrote: > Fellow builders, > > I'd like to share a little adventure we had last week and how it may > impact my RV-10 project. > My Dad and I were cruising along at 8500' enroute from PA down to FL in > our Glastar when I noticed an annoying red light on the instrument > panel. That little red light of course was a low voltage warning > light, and sure enough we were on battery power at that point, the > alternator was doing nothing useful at all. We requested a landing at > Charlottesville VA, KCHO and within 15 minutes were on the ground. > They let us bring our airplane inside a heated hangar to sort out > our electrical problems. We'll we got the true southern hospitality > treatment. A mechanic came over and offered us the use of any of his > tools that we needed (although he was way to busy to work on our > plane). We removed the cowling and then the alternator and ohmed out > the field winding of the alternator, it appeared to be an open > circuit. The alternator was a Ford Motorcraft as originally supplied > with our 1960's vintage Lycoming 0-320. (however it had been rebuilt in > 2001, and now had about 350 hours of run time) We asked the mechanic > if he had any recommendations on a place to check and possibly replace > our 'Ford' alternator. He said, "Sure, I'll call Advanced Autoparts, I > think they have an alternator "spinner"". Sure enough, they did. So > the mechanic gave us the keys to his truck and we visited the aviation > department of Advanced Autoparts. Well the alternator was really dead > and they actually had the exact replacement in stock! So $57 later we > were back on our way to the airport. Well we put it all back together > and sure enough we were back in business, the aircraft bus voltage > was back up to 14 volts!. We thanked everyone over and over, took on > some fuel and just over 2.5 hours after discovering the problem we were > back in the air. We were incredibly fortunate that day to meet such > wonderful folks as we did at KCHO. But we also really enjoyed the > benefits of building and flying a homebuilt. There is no way that we > would have been able to continue our journey that day if we were flying > a certified aircraft, There were no mechanics that could spend their > time working on our airplane on that day, And almost certainly they > would have had to order a new alternator (that wouldn't have been $57!). > > So the lessons learned that I'm going to apply to my RV-10: > 1) Low voltage idiot lights work, they are a must have in my book > 2) Although we were able to safely make it to an alternate airport on > battery power, a back-up alternator equipped engine really ups the > convenience factor. We were incredibly lucky to get our airplane fixed > and flying again the same day. If we had a back-up alternator and were > flying VFR as we were, we would have probably just continued on our way > to Florida. > 3) Bring a decent tool kit, We had the very basic tools in our > airplane tool kit, but I'm now going to add a small DMM (multi-meter) > to the kit. > 4) A condensed set of basic wiring schematics for the airplane could > have been a necessity. If the alternator wasn't the problem, I really > would have had a difficult time trouble shooting much more as I was > working completely from memory on how I wired the plane (almost 10 years > ago). > > > > Bob Newman > TCW Technologies, LLC. > www.tcwtech.com > RV-10 40176 - finish kit > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:04 AM PST US From: "Bob-tcw" Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator failure A couple more thoughts: The back-up alternator I have in mind is certainly the 20 amp version. I've had a few days now to think and rethink the situation we were in and I came to the following conclusion: Even if we had a back-up alternator, I would have still landed at KCHO, but I would have checked the main alternator, ensured it wasn't a smoking mess hooked to the engine and then made the decision wether to continue the flight. Given that in the the Glastar I can get the running load to less than 20 amps, I would have continued the flight as it was severe clear, day time , VFR. I'm still using dual batteries in my RV-10, its this first hand experience that has moved the 20 amp back-up alternator to the top of my list of things to buy :). One other side note, this was my first real long cross country flight with our new IPS-12v-4a product installed and powering our GNS-530, It worked like a charm, I did all of our flight programming on the ground with the engine off then fire-up without turning the Garmin 530 off. -Bob Newman ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:13 PM PST US From: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" Subject: Re: Recall: RV-List: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation Google Mark Phillips RV6a and then go to wing tips, that will give you all the details. I'm doing my tips right now and I have 12 plus hours in the left tip. It's fun! Jim Fogarty RV9a Building ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:43 PM Subject: Re: Recall: RV-List: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation > > Bret Smith wrote: > >>Bret Smith would like to recall the message, "RV-List: Improvements to >>"Hinged" wingtip installation". >> > And how do you do that? > > > -- > Release Date: 1/23/2009 6:54 PM > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:04 PM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: RE: Recall: RV-List: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation Sorry about the recalled message. I meant it for Mark. Oh well, since there seems to be some interest in the hinge method, here is my builder's log. http://www.flightinnovations.com/wings4.html#Wingtip_Hinge_Install I freely admit to have blatantly stolen the hinged wingtip idea from Mark (as well as a few other ideas I won't mention). Hee Hee... Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Recall: RV-List: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation --> Google Mark Phillips RV6a and then go to wing tips, that will give you all the details. I'm doing my tips right now and I have 12 plus hours in the left tip. It's fun! Jim Fogarty RV9a Building ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:43 PM Subject: Re: Recall: RV-List: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation > > Bret Smith wrote: > >>Bret Smith would like to recall the message, "RV-List: Improvements to >>"Hinged" wingtip installation". >> > And how do you do that? > > > -- > Release Date: 1/23/2009 6:54 PM > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:26 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: Recall: RV-List: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation Thanks Bret! I tried to find Marks site, but failed! Linn Bret Smith wrote: > > Sorry about the recalled message. I meant it for Mark. Oh well, since > there seems to be some interest in the hinge method, here is my builder's > log. http://www.flightinnovations.com/wings4.html#Wingtip_Hinge_Install > > I freely admit to have blatantly stolen the hinged wingtip idea from Mark > (as well as a few other ideas I won't mention). > > Hee Hee... > > > Bret Smith > RV-9A N16BL > Blue Ridge, Ga > www.FlightInnovations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.