---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/19/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:05 AM - Oil Door hinges (Emrath) 2. 10:09 AM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (Michael) 3. 10:42 AM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (sbuc) 4. 11:20 AM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (linn) 5. 11:50 AM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (John Fasching) 6. 03:10 PM - Re: Oil Door hinges (Todd & Kristen Neidinger) 7. 07:09 PM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (Michael) 8. 07:35 PM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (Michael) 9. 07:52 PM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (linn) 10. 08:14 PM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (Kelly McMullen) 11. 08:43 PM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (Sam Buchanan) 12. 10:22 PM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (Jerry Springer) 13. 10:48 PM - Re: Sample maintenance log entry (Michael) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:45 AM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: RV-List: Oil Door hinges Folks, In cleaning up my bench, I find I have two McMaster-Carr "Weldable Concealed Hinges" part number 110205A35 I had intended to use for my oil door. They are yours for the freight to send them to you. They each have two rivet holes already drilled in each side of the hinge. Marty in Brentwood TN ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:30 AM PST US From: "Michael" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an airworthiness certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. They have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will tell you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not the case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply with FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 flight testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on a REGULAR bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed. There you have it. Mike RV7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Thanks Mike, I have downloaded a bunch of the FAR's for documentation in my computer. So....until I get the repairman's cert (and afterwards - except for annuals) I can sign it off as 'builder'. Ralph 4.7 hrs - working off a couple of minor bugs..... -----Original Message----- >From: Mike Robertson >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM >To: rv list >Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > >You are correct. On an amateur-built aircraft ANYONE may do the maintenance, or major alteration, and sign off the logbook in accordance with the logbook entry requirements of FAR 43.9. In addition, if it is a major alteration you must follow the procedure stated in the aircraft's operating limitations. The repairman certificate only is needed to conduct the yearly condition inpsection and sign it off. Again, this is stated the the aircraft's operating limitations. If you have any specific questions drop me a line. > > > >Mike Robertson > >Das Fed > > > >> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:26:01 -0500 >> From: recapen@earthlink.net >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >> >> I thought that the repairman's cert allowed me to do the annual and being the builder allowed me to do the maintenance. >> >> Time for more research.... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Michael >> >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 10:34 AM >> >To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> > >> > >> >Well, this exercise will require a logbook sign off and since you do not >> >have a repairman cert and a pilots license is not acceptable (beyond >> >preventive maintenance) then you need to find and A&P to help you out. All >> >you need in a logbook entry is date, aircraft/engine/appliance time, >> >description of work performed, signature and certificate type. If it is a >> >condition inspection then the statement in part 43 applies. >> > >> >Here is the FAR: >> >(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) >> >of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, >> >rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, >> >appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record >> >of that equipment containing the following information: >> > >> >(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of >> >work performed. >> > >> >(2) The date of completion of the work performed. >> > >> >(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person >> >specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section. >> > >> >(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, >> >propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, >> >the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the >> >person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return >> >to service only for the work performed. >> > >> > >> > >> >How you format this info is up to you. >> > >> > >> > >> >Mike >> > >> >RV7 550Hrs >> > >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" >> >To: "rv-list" >> >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:39 AM >> >Subject: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> > >> > >> >> >> >> For documentation purposes (my own mainly), I would like to put an entry >> >> in to my maintenance log to document the calibration of my fuel flow >> >> sensor. Is there a required / suggested format? >> >> >> >> My logbook has a "Date of completion" column, "aircraft time in service" >> >> column, "description of work performed" column, and "agency&certificate >> >> no. work performed/returned to service" column. >> >> >> >> I was thinking of something along the lines of: >> >> >> >> 07Feb2009 3.2hrs Calibrated fuel flow 'K' factor in accordance with >> >> AF-3400 user guide V5.5 dtd 30Oct2008 /signature/builder. >> >> >> >> I do not yet have the repairman's certificate for this airframe. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ralph >> >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 4.7 hrs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >=========== >=========== >=========== >=========== >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >See how Windows Mobile brings your life together-at home, work, or on the go. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:28 AM PST US From: "sbuc" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an airworthiness certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. They have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will tell you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not the case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply with FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 flight testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on a REGULAR bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed. There you have it. Mike RV7 ======================== Nope, take a look at the first paragraph or so of FAR 43; it doesn't apply to aircraft with experimental airworthiness certificates. In regards to Experimental aircraft, FAR 43 applies only as stated in the op lims of the particular aircraft. Anyone may legally do *any* work on an experimental aircraft (only exception is pitot-static certs), repairman's certificate or A&P are only needed for condition inspection. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:42 AM PST US From: linn Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Michael wrote: > > Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an airworthiness > certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. > Wrong understanding. > > They have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with > his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a > pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from > approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will tell > you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: > "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception > that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not the > case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that > constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply with > FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 flight > testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on a REGULAR > bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. > Part 43 applies to certificated aircraft, which our homebuilts aren't. As a homebuilder, you can completely ignore part 43 and build your airplane any way you want. All you have to do is convince the DAR that the 'contraption' won't kill you or anyone on the ground. There is something, somewhere, that says after any major alteration (undefined, in this case) then it must be inspected (DAR again) and the plane put back into phase 1 testing. As to the repairmans certificate .... if you have the certificate FOR THAT ONE PARTICULAR PLANE then you can do the conditional inspection. Otherwise, any A&P (DOES NOT HAVE TO BE AN AI) can perform that inspection and sign it off. > > > > As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: > > > > If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, > propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed > satisfactorily, the signature, */certificate number/*, and kind of > certificate held by the person approving the work. > The CERTIFICATE NUMBER appears on your repairmans certificate. > > The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for > the work performed. > Also true. > > There you have it. > Correctly now, I think. Linn > > > > Mike > > RV7 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:06 AM PST US From: "John Fasching" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Michael, Your understanding is not correct. ANYONE, even a three year old child, can do maintenance on an experimental aircraft. The only thing requiring a 'certificate' is for the annual condition inspection. Major changes, as you point out, do require a return to phase 1 operation in accordance with your operating limitations. The older restrictions would require prior approval but the newer ones just require the log book entry after satisfactory operation for the (typical) 5-hours of phase 1 operation. As to ADs - if there is an AD on a specific part that you have in your plane, say a propeller or a starter, etc, then the ADs do apply. Oher than that unless the AD is specifically aimed at you exact aircraft, ADs do not apply with the exception pointed above. A pilot's certificate doesn't specifically cover or grant any authority regarding maintenance on an experimental aircraft. Again, your 3-year kid can do the work. The possession of a pilot's license is not a factor. But on an experimental aircraft you CAN "do anything you want" - only comply with your operating limitations, and make the required log book entries, if any. Message ----- From: Michael To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an airworthiness certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. They have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will tell you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not the case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply with FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 flight testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on a REGULAR bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed. There you have it. Mike RV7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:10 AM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Thanks Mike, I have downloaded a bunch of the FAR's for documentation in my computer. So....until I get the repairman's cert (and afterwards - except for annuals) I can sign it off as 'builder'. Ralph 4.7 hrs - working off a couple of minor bugs..... -----Original Message----- >From: Mike Robertson >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM >To: rv list >Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > >You are correct. On an amateur-built aircraft ANYONE may do the maintenance, or major alteration, and sign off the logbook in accordance with the logbook entry requirements of FAR 43.9. In addition, if it is a major alteration you must follow the procedure stated in the aircraft's operating limitations. The repairman certificate only is needed to conduct the yearly condition inpsection and sign it off. Again, this is stated the the aircraft's operating limitations. If you have any specific questions drop me a line. > > > >Mike Robertson > >Das Fed > > > >> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:26:01 -0500 >> From: recapen@earthlink.net >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >> >> I thought that the repairman's cert allowed me to do the annual and being the builder allowed me to do the maintenance. >> >> Time for more research.... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Michael >> >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 10:34 AM >> >To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> > >> > >> >Well, this exercise will require a logbook sign off and since you do not >> >have a repairman cert and a pilots license is not acceptable (beyond >> >preventive maintenance) then you need to find and A&P to help you out. All >> >you need in a logbook entry is date, aircraft/engine/appliance time, >> >description of work performed, signature and certificate type. If it is a >> >condition inspection then the statement in part 43 applies. >> > >> >Here is the FAR: >> >(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) >> >of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, >> >rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, >> >appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record >> >of that equipment containing the following information: >> > >> >(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of >> >work performed. >> > >> >(2) The date of completion of the work performed. >> > >> >(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person >> >specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section. >> > >> >(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, >> >propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, >> >the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the >> >person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return >> >to service only for the work performed. >> > >> > >> > >> >How you format this info is up to you. >> > >> > >> > >> >Mike >> > >> >RV7 550Hrs >> > >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" >> >To: "rv-list" >> >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:39 AM >> >Subject: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> > >> > >> >> >> >> For documentation purposes (my own mainly), I would like to put an entry >> >> in to my maintenance log to document the calibration of my fuel flow >> >> sensor. Is there a required / suggested format? >> >> >> >> My logbook has a "Date of completion" column, "aircraft time in service" >> >> column, "description of work performed" column, and "agency&certificate >> >> no. work performed/returned to service" column. >> >> >> >> I was thinking of something along the lines of: >> >> >> >> 07Feb2009 3.2hrs Calibrated fuel flow 'K' factor in accordance with >> >> AF-3400 user guide V5.5 dtd 30Oct2008 /signature/builder. >> >> >> >> I do not yet have the repairman's certificate for this airframe. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ralph >> >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 4.7 hrs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >=========== >=========== >=========== >=========== >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >See how Windows Mobile brings your life together-at home, work, or on the go. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:10 PM PST US From: Todd & Kristen Neidinger Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Door hinges I was just shopping for these - I'll take them if you still have them. Todd Neidinger rv-9 Emrath wrote: > > Folks, > In cleaning up my bench, I find I have two McMaster-Carr "Weldable Concealed > Hinges" part number 110205A35 I had intended to use for my oil door. They > are yours for the freight to send them to you. They each have two rivet > holes already drilled in each side of the hinge. > > Marty in Brentwood TN > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:16 PM PST US From: "Michael" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Sam, Well done, my understanding was incorrect, I just read FAR43 and there it is.......thanks for the clarification. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sbuc Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an airworthiness certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. They have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will tell you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not the case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply with FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 flight testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on a REGULAR bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed. There you have it. Mike RV7 ======================== Nope, take a look at the first paragraph or so of FAR 43; it doesn't apply to aircraft with experimental airworthiness certificates. In regards to Experimental aircraft, FAR 43 applies only as stated in the op lims of the particular aircraft. Anyone may legally do *any* work on an experimental aircraft (only exception is pitot-static certs), repairman's certificate or A&P are only needed for condition inspection. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:24 PM PST US From: "Michael" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Well, guys I just read my Operation limitations and it says "This aircraft MUST be maintained in accordance with the requirements of title 14, code of federal regulations, Part 43." So much for part 43 not applying to me... Does any one else have this statement in there op limitations? I new my understanding came from my local FSDO when the Operation Limitations were cut. Any thoughts? Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:42 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Michael, Your understanding is not correct. ANYONE, even a three year old child, can do maintenance on an experimental aircraft. The only thing requiring a 'certificate' is for the annual condition inspection. Major changes, as you point out, do require a return to phase 1 operation in accordance with your operating limitations. The older restrictions would require prior approval but the newer ones just require the log book entry after satisfactory operation for the (typical) 5-hours of phase 1 operation. As to ADs - if there is an AD on a specific part that you have in your plane, say a propeller or a starter, etc, then the ADs do apply. Oher than that unless the AD is specifically aimed at you exact aircraft, ADs do not apply with the exception pointed above. A pilot's certificate doesn't specifically cover or grant any authority regarding maintenance on an experimental aircraft. Again, your 3-year kid can do the work. The possession of a pilot's license is not a factor. But on an experimental aircraft you CAN "do anything you want" - only comply with your operating limitations, and make the required log book entries, if any. Message ----- From: Michael Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an airworthiness certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. They have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will tell you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not the case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply with FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 flight testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on a REGULAR bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed. There you have it. Mike RV7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Thanks Mike, I have downloaded a bunch of the FAR's for documentation in my computer. So....until I get the repairman's cert (and afterwards - except for annuals) I can sign it off as 'builder'. Ralph 4.7 hrs - working off a couple of minor bugs..... -----Original Message----- >From: Mike Robertson >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM >To: rv list >Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > >You are correct. On an amateur-built aircraft ANYONE may do the maintenance, or major alteration, and sign off the logbook in accordance with the logbook entry requirements of FAR 43.9. In addition, if it is a major alteration you must follow the procedure stated in the aircraft's operating limitations. The repairman certificate only is needed to conduct the yearly condition inpsection and sign it off. Again, this is stated the the aircraft's operating limitations. If you have any specific questions drop me a line. > > > >Mike Robertson > >Das Fed > > > >> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:26:01 -0500 >> From: recapen@earthlink.net >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >> >> I thought that the repairman's cert allowed me to do the annual and being the builder allowed me to do the maintenance. >> >> Time for more research.... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Michael >> >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 10:34 AM >> >To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> > >> > >> >Well, this exercise will require a logbook sign off and since you do not >> >have a repairman cert and a pilots license is not acceptable (beyond >> >preventive maintenance) then you need to find and A&P to help you out. All >> >you need in a logbook entry is date, aircraft/engine/appliance time, >> >description of work performed, signature and certificate type. If it is a >> >condition inspection then the statement in part 43 applies. >> > >> >Here is the FAR: >> >(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) >> >of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, >> >rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, >> >appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record >> >of that equipment containing the following information: >> > >> >(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of >> >work performed. >> > >> >(2) The date of completion of the work performed. >> > >> >(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person >> >specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section. >> > >> >(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, >> >propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, >> >the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the >> >person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return >> >to service only for the work performed. >> > >> > >> > >> >How you format this info is up to you. >> > >> > >> > >> >Mike >> > >> >RV7 550Hrs >> > >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" >> >To: "rv-list" >> >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:39 AM >> >Subject: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> > >> > >> >> >> >> For documentation purposes (my own mainly), I would like to put an entry >> >> in to my maintenance log to document the calibration of my fuel flow >> >> sensor. Is there a required / suggested format? >> >> >> >> My logbook has a "Date of completion" column, "aircraft time in service" >> >> column, "description of work performed" column, and "agency&certificate >> >> no. work performed/returned to service" column. >> >> >> >> I was thinking of something along the lines of: >> >> >> >> 07Feb2009 3.2hrs Calibrated fuel flow 'K' factor in accordance with >> >> AF-3400 user guide V5.5 dtd 30Oct2008 /signature/builder. >> >> >> >> I do not yet have the repairman's certificate for this airframe. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ralph >> >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 4.7 hrs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >=========== >=========== >=========== >=========== >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >See how Windows Mobile brings your life together-at home, work, or on the go. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:58 PM PST US From: linn Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Well, maybe we can get Mike Robertson back on this thread. His reply below just indicated part 43 for logbook entry requirements. I'll check my Pitts tomorrow. Linn Michael wrote: > > Well, guys I just read my Operation limitations and it says "This > aircraft _MUST_ be maintained in accordance with the requirements of > title 14, code of federal regulations, Part 43." So much for part 43 > not applying to me....... Does any one else have this statement in > there op limitations? I new my understanding came from my local FSDO > when the Operation Limitations were cut. Any thoughts? > > > > Mike > snip > > -----Original Message----- > > >From: Mike Robertson > > >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM > > >To: rv list > > >Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > > > > > > > >You are correct. On an amateur-built aircraft ANYONE may do the > maintenance, or major alteration, and sign off the logbook in > accordance with the logbook entry requirements of FAR 43.9. In > addition, if it is a major alteration you must follow the > procedure stated in the aircraft's operating limitations. The > repairman certificate only is needed to conduct the yearly > condition inpsection and sign it off. Again, this is stated the > the aircraft's operating limitations. If you have any specific > questions drop me a line. > > > > > > > > > > > >Mike Robertson > > > > > >Das Fed > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:10 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Not entirely true. Transponder/encoder biennial inspections also require appropriate license. > > Anyone may legally do *any* work on an experimental aircraft (only exception > > is pitot-static certs), repairman's certificate or A&P are only needed for > condition inspection. > > Sam Buchanan > > > -- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:19 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Not entirely true. Transponder/encoder biennial inspections also require > appropriate license. You are correct, I should have been more specific. It is very common to have the transponder stuff done in conjunction with pitot/static checks. Sam Buchanan =================== > >> >> Anyone may legally do *any* work on an experimental aircraft (only >> exception >> >> is pitot-static certs), repairman's certificate or A&P are only needed >> for condition inspection. >> >> Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:14 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Yes and if you read 43.1 (b) it well tell you that it does not apply to aircraft issued an experimental certificate. So how do you comply with a reg that say it does not apply to you? do not archive Michael wrote: > Well, guys I just read my Operation limitations and it says This > aircraft MUST be maintained in accordance with the requirements of > title 14, code of federal regulations, Part 43. So much for part 43 > not applying to me. Does any one else have this statement in there > op limitations? I new my understanding came from my local FSDO when > the Operation Limitations were cut. Any thoughts? > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:42 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > Michael, Your understanding is not correct. ANYONE, even a three year > old child, can do maintenance on an experimental aircraft. The only > thing requiring a 'certificate' is for the annual condition > inspection. Major changes, as you point out, do require a return to > phase 1 operation in accordance with your operating limitations. The > older restrictions would require prior approval but the newer ones > just require the log book entry after satisfactory operation for the > (typical) 5-hours of phase 1 operation. > > As to ADs - if there is an AD on a specific part that you have in your > plane, say a propeller or a starter, etc, then the ADs do apply. Oher > than that unless the AD is specifically aimed at you exact aircraft, > ADs do not apply with the exception pointed above. > > A pilot's certificate doesn't specifically cover or grant any > authority regarding maintenance on an experimental aircraft. Again, > your 3-year kid can do the work. The possession of a pilot's license > is not a factor. > > But on an experimental aircraft you CAN "do anything you want" - only > comply with your operating limitations, and make the required log book > entries, if any. > > Message ----- > > From: Michael > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:06 AM > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an > airworthiness certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. They > have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with > his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a > pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from > approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will > tell you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: > "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception > that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not > the case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that > constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply > with FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 > flight testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on > a REGULAR bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. > > As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: > > If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, > propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed > satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of > certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature > constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work > performed. > > There you have it. > > Mike > > RV7 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. > Capen > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:10 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > > > Thanks Mike, > > I have downloaded a bunch of the FAR's for documentation in my > computer. > > So....until I get the repairman's cert (and afterwards - except > for annuals) I can sign it off as 'builder'. > > Ralph > > 4.7 hrs - working off a couple of minor bugs..... > > -----Original Message----- > >>From: Mike Robertson > >>Sent: Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM > >>To: rv list > >>Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > >> > >> > >>You are correct. On an amateur-built aircraft ANYONE may do the > maintenance, or major alteration, and sign off the logbook in > accordance with the logbook entry requirements of FAR 43.9. In > addition, if it is a major alteration you must follow the > procedure stated in the aircraft's operating limitations. The > repairman certificate only is needed to conduct the yearly > condition inpsection and sign it off. Again, this is stated the > the aircraft's operating limitations. If you have any specific > questions drop me a line. > >> > >> > >> > >>Mike Robertson > >> > >>Das Fed > >> > >> > >> > >>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:26:01 -0500 > >>> From: recapen@earthlink.net > >>> To: rv-list@matronics.com > >>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > >>> > > > >>> > >>> I thought that the repairman's cert allowed me to do the annual > and being the builder allowed me to do the maintenance. > >>> > >>> Time for more research.... > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> >From: Michael > >>> >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 10:34 AM > >>> >To: rv-list@matronics.com > >>> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> >Well, this exercise will require a logbook sign off and since > you do not > >>> >have a repairman cert and a pilots license is not acceptable > (beyond > >>> >preventive maintenance) then you need to find and A&P to help > you out. All > >>> >you need in a logbook entry is date, aircraft/engine/appliance > time, > >>> >description of work performed, signature and certificate type. > If it is a > >>> >condition inspection then the statement in part 43 applies. > >>> > > >>> >Here is the FAR: > >>> >(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in > paragraphs (b) and (c) > >>> >of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive > maintenance, > >>> >rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, > propeller, > >>> >appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the > maintenance record > >>> >of that equipment containing the following information: > >>> > > >>> >(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the > Administrator) of > >>> >work performed. > >>> > > >>> >(2) The date of completion of the work performed. > >>> > > >>> >(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than > the person > >>> >specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section. > >>> > > >>> >(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft > engine, > >>> >propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed > satisfactorily, > >>> >the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held > by the > >>> >person approving the work. The signature constitutes the > approval for return > >>> >to service only for the work performed. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >How you format this info is up to you. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >Mike > >>> > > >>> >RV7 550Hrs > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >----- Original Message ----- > >>> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" > >>> >To: "rv-list" > >>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:39 AM > >>> >Subject: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> >> > >>> >> For documentation purposes (my own mainly), I would like to > put an entry > >>> >> in to my maintenance log to document the calibration of my > fuel flow > >>> >> sensor. Is there a required / suggested format? > >>> >> > >>> >> My logbook has a "Date of completion" column, "aircraft time > in service" > >>> >> column, "description of work performed" column, and > "agency&certificate > >>> >> no. work performed/returned to service" column. > >>> >> > >>> >> I was thinking of something along the lines of: > >>> >> > >>> >> 07Feb2009 3.2hrs Calibrated fuel flow 'K' factor in > accordance with > >>> >> AF-3400 user guide V5.5 dtd 30Oct2008 /signature/builder. > >>> >> > >>> >> I do not yet have the repairman's certificate for this airframe. > >>> >> > >>> >> Thanks, > >>> >> Ralph > >>> >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 4.7 hrs > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>=========== > >>=========== > >>=========== > >>=========== > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>See how Windows Mobile brings your life togetherat home, work, or > on the go. > > < Un>< www.matronics.com http:><><><><> > > > > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > >http://forums.matronics.com > >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:35 PM PST US From: "Michael" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry Well, if I get ramped you know which one will apply!!!! The more paperwork the more the feds like it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry > > Yes and if you read 43.1 (b) it well tell you that it does not apply to > aircraft issued an experimental certificate. So how do you comply with a > reg that say it does not apply to you? > do not archive > > Michael wrote: > >> Well, guys I just read my Operation limitations and it says This >> aircraft MUST be maintained in accordance with the requirements of title >> 14, code of federal regulations, Part 43. So much for part 43 not >> applying to me. Does any one else have this statement in there op >> limitations? I new my understanding came from my local FSDO when the >> Operation Limitations were cut. Any thoughts? >> >> Mike >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:42 AM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >> Michael, Your understanding is not correct. ANYONE, even a three year old >> child, can do maintenance on an experimental aircraft. The only thing >> requiring a 'certificate' is for the annual condition inspection. Major >> changes, as you point out, do require a return to phase 1 operation in >> accordance with your operating limitations. The older restrictions would >> require prior approval but the newer ones just require the log book entry >> after satisfactory operation for the (typical) 5-hours of phase 1 >> operation. >> >> As to ADs - if there is an AD on a specific part that you have in your >> plane, say a propeller or a starter, etc, then the ADs do apply. Oher >> than that unless the AD is specifically aimed at you exact aircraft, >> ADs do not apply with the exception pointed above. >> >> A pilot's certificate doesn't specifically cover or grant any authority >> regarding maintenance on an experimental aircraft. Again, your 3-year kid >> can do the work. The possession of a pilot's license is not a factor. >> >> But on an experimental aircraft you CAN "do anything you want" - only >> comply with your operating limitations, and make the required log book >> entries, if any. >> >> Message ----- >> >> From: Michael >> >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:06 AM >> >> Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >> Ok, my understanding is that once the aircraft has an >> airworthiness certificate not just ANYONE can do the work. They >> have to be a certificated person signing the work, builder with >> his repairman certificate, A&P or preventative maintenance which a >> pilot's certificate will cover. Experimental only have relief from >> approved parts and Ads but other than that your ops specs will >> tell you to maintain like it was a 91 airplane with exception to: >> "condition being used" instead of annual. There is a misconception >> that we can do "whatever we want" to our planes but that is not >> the case. Small items are logbook entries only but anything that >> constitutes a major change in FAR 21.93 the owner must recomply >> with FAR 91.319(b) which puts the aircraft back into phase 1 >> flight testing. If anyone has dealings with the feds like I do on >> a REGULAR bases (part 135/145) you should see a similar testament. >> >> As far as part 43.9 here is what the FAR says: >> >> If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, >> propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed >> satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of >> certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature >> constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work >> performed. >> >> There you have it. >> >> Mike >> >> RV7 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. >> Capen >> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:10 AM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >> >> >> Thanks Mike, >> >> I have downloaded a bunch of the FAR's for documentation in my >> computer. >> >> So....until I get the repairman's cert (and afterwards - except >> for annuals) I can sign it off as 'builder'. >> >> Ralph >> >> 4.7 hrs - working off a couple of minor bugs..... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>>From: Mike Robertson >> >>>Sent: Feb 17, 2009 11:43 AM >> >>>To: rv list >> >>>Subject: RE: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>You are correct. On an amateur-built aircraft ANYONE may do the >> maintenance, or major alteration, and sign off the logbook in >> accordance with the logbook entry requirements of FAR 43.9. In >> addition, if it is a major alteration you must follow the >> procedure stated in the aircraft's operating limitations. The >> repairman certificate only is needed to conduct the yearly >> condition inpsection and sign it off. Again, this is stated the >> the aircraft's operating limitations. If you have any specific >> questions drop me a line. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Mike Robertson >> >>> >> >>>Das Fed >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:26:01 -0500 >> >>>> From: recapen@earthlink.net >> >>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >>>> I thought that the repairman's cert allowed me to do the annual >> and being the builder allowed me to do the maintenance. >> >>>> >> >>>> Time for more research.... >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> >From: Michael >> >>>> >Sent: Feb 17, 2009 10:34 AM >> >>>> >To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >>>> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >>>> >Well, this exercise will require a logbook sign off and since >> you do not >> >>>> >have a repairman cert and a pilots license is not acceptable >> (beyond >> >>>> >preventive maintenance) then you need to find and A&P to help >> you out. All >> >>>> >you need in a logbook entry is date, aircraft/engine/appliance >> time, >> >>>> >description of work performed, signature and certificate type. >> If it is a >> >>>> >condition inspection then the statement in part 43 applies. >> >>>> > >> >>>> >Here is the FAR: >> >>>> >(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in >> paragraphs (b) and (c) >> >>>> >of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive >> maintenance, >> >>>> >rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, >> propeller, >> >>>> >appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the >> maintenance record >> >>>> >of that equipment containing the following information: >> >>>> > >> >>>> >(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the >> Administrator) of >> >>>> >work performed. >> >>>> > >> >>>> >(2) The date of completion of the work performed. >> >>>> > >> >>>> >(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than >> the person >> >>>> >specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section. >> >>>> > >> >>>> >(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft >> engine, >> >>>> >propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed >> satisfactorily, >> >>>> >the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held >> by the >> >>>> >person approving the work. The signature constitutes the >> approval for return >> >>>> >to service only for the work performed. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >How you format this info is up to you. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >Mike >> >>>> > >> >>>> >RV7 550Hrs >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" >> >>>> >To: "rv-list" >> >>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:39 AM >> >>>> >Subject: RV-List: Sample maintenance log entry >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> For documentation purposes (my own mainly), I would like to >> put an entry >> >>>> >> in to my maintenance log to document the calibration of my >> fuel flow >> >>>> >> sensor. Is there a required / suggested format? >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> My logbook has a "Date of completion" column, "aircraft time >> in service" >> >>>> >> column, "description of work performed" column, and >> "agency&certificate >> >>>> >> no. work performed/returned to service" column. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> I was thinking of something along the lines of: >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> 07Feb2009 3.2hrs Calibrated fuel flow 'K' factor in >> accordance with >> >>>> >> AF-3400 user guide V5.5 dtd 30Oct2008 /signature/builder. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> I do not yet have the repairman's certificate for this airframe. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> Thanks, >> >>>> >> Ralph >> >>>> >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 4.7 hrs >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>=========== >> >>>=========== >> >>>=========== >> >>>=========== >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >> >>>See how Windows Mobile brings your life togetherat home, work, or >> on the go. >> >> < Un>< www.matronics.com http:><><><><> >> >> >> >>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> >>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >> >> >> >>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> >>http://forums.matronics.com >> >>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.