---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/26/09: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:06 AM - Re: primer! yeah, I know... (Steven Reynard) 2. 08:29 AM - Re: primer! yeah, I know... (Tim Bryan) 3. 04:53 PM - Re: primer! yeah, I know... (Jerry Springer) 4. 07:13 PM - Additional TSA encroachment on GA beyond LASP (Bill Judge) 5. 09:26 PM - Re: Additional TSA encroachment on GA beyond LASP (Robin Marks) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: primer! yeah, I know... From: Steven Reynard "anecdotes are fun reading, but" . . . . "something a little more rigorous seems in order..." OK Nate, here's what you can do. Build 100 airplanes and place 10 each strategically all around the world. Do a complete disassembly and inspection by a team of qualified mechanics, engineers, and metallurgists in at least three different certified laboratories, every year for 100 years. When done, they can write a rigorous report for you. Some people will disagree that there is a lot of opportunity to make it more rigorous, but it should get you started. . . . Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself. . . . :( If you just want another anecdote, find a A&P IA whoes opinion you can trust and see what they have to say. Or you could write to Boeing and see if they have any reports? Maybe you could see if they have a corrosion expert you can talk to? With all the thousands of posts going back and forth on the issue all over the internet, that you have already discarded, its not clear why you are asking for more?!? I'll ask you a question in return, just for you to think about. Will you be able to sleep at night if you build an airplane with less effort, labor, and skill than you can reasonably accomplish and ride in it with a loved one? My opinion? Do the best you can do and move on. Steve Santa Rosa RV-7 Empennage, left elevator ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:01 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: primer! yeah, I know... Or you can do what I did. Write down the different primers that others have used then determine what you will use based on which one you can easily find in your town, one that offers ease of use for you, then use that one on your airplane. The end result will be, "Yes you primed all the parts internally" and quite honestly it won't matter much beyond that. I ended up even changing three times to different primers because of different reasons. One became no longer available nearby and another kept plugging up the nozzles and wasting half of every can. My plane parts are all primed and I couldn't tell you which brand is in which part. I have no worries about longevity or any other issue. Good luck and happy building. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 120 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Reynard Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:02 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: primer! yeah, I know... "anecdotes are fun reading, but" . . . . "something a little more rigorous seems in order..." OK Nate, here's what you can do. Build 100 airplanes and place 10 each strategically all around the world. Do a complete disassembly and inspection by a team of qualified mechanics, engineers, and metallurgists in at least three different certified laboratories, every year for 100 years. When done, they can write a rigorous report for you. Some people will disagree that there is a lot of opportunity to make it more rigorous, but it should get you started. . . . Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself. . . . :( If you just want another anecdote, find a A&P IA whoes opinion you can trust and see what they have to say. Or you could write to Boeing and see if they have any reports? Maybe you could see if they have a corrosion expert you can talk to? With all the thousands of posts going back and forth on the issue all over the internet, that you have already discarded, its not clear why you are asking for more?!? I'll ask you a question in return, just for you to think about. Will you be able to sleep at night if you build an airplane with less effort, labor, and skill than you can reasonably accomplish and ride in it with a loved one? My opinion? Do the best you can do and move on. Steve Santa Rosa RV-7 Empennage, left elevator ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:50 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: primer! yeah, I know... "anecdotes are fun reading, but" . . . . > > "something a little more rigorous seems in order..." > Use what you want and move on, there is no war, pick a primer or not, and build. Part of the intereior of my RV-6 is primed and part is not, the unprimed area looks as good as it did when I built my airplane 20 years ago. do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:12 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Additional TSA encroachment on GA beyond LASP From: Bill Judge Fellow flyers: TSA is pushing the LASP regulation through and at the same time pushing a regulation through that doesn't have a public comment period because it is masked by National Security. Rumor has it that the no comment one is talking about badge access to all areas of any airport that has air carrier serivce. The Bages will cost $200 per airport and will be specific to each airport. I decided to put comments in for the TSA proposal that they are accepting comments for. It didn't take long. I believe it is one way that we can stem additional erosion of our flying freedom. The the LASP fails then the more draconian proposal shrouded in secrecy will have no chance. Friday is the last day to comment. If you'd like to do the same EAA will guide you through the process: http://eaa.org/govt/tsa.asp#Comment If you're lost for words Here is what I wrote: The proposed security regulation attempts to make cost benefit comparisons and show that the cost associated with the regulations are clearly worth the benefits of avoiding a potential terrorist attack. The reader is lead to conclude that no further analysis is necessary. The analysis does not take into account the value of the freedom of the American people and demonstrated acceptance of risk by the American people. The continual erosion of our way of life in the name of security is unacceptable. Risk is associated with everything a human does. In 2007 37,248 people perished in car accidents in the US. In the same time period, exactly zero died in general aviation related terror incidents. The greatest loss of life associated with the scenarios in the analysis was 3000 from a September 11 type attack. Despite the most horrific scenario that a general aviation security breach could lead to the benefit would only be avoiding 1/10th that of what we willingly accept every year on the roadways. If that the doomsday event happens once every 10 years we are now proposing new limitations on the freedom of the public for 1/100th of the accepted risk associated driving a car. This risk we are trying to prevent is only imagined and not demonstrated the way auto accident risk and risk acceptance is demonstrated year after year. The public is not crying out for auto accident risk mitigation nor should they. This proposal falls in the same category: long odds against relatively minor risks. The analysis may seem to stand muster against the limited scope of risk associated with general aviation but when compared with risks that the American people accept on a daily basis the reality is that general aviation does not pose a significant risk. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:39 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Additional TSA encroachment on GA beyond LASP From: "Robin Marks" Thank you Bill. Robin Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Judge Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Additional TSA encroachment on GA beyond LASP Fellow flyers: TSA is pushing the LASP regulation through and at the same time pushing a regulation through that doesn't have a public comment period because it is masked by National Security. Rumor has it that the no comment one is talking about badge access to all areas of any airport that has air carrier serivce. The Bages will cost $200 per airport and will be specific to each airport. I decided to put comments in for the TSA proposal that they are accepting comments for. It didn't take long. I believe it is one way that we can stem additional erosion of our flying freedom. The the LASP fails then the more draconian proposal shrouded in secrecy will have no chance. Friday is the last day to comment. If you'd like to do the same EAA will guide you through the process: http://eaa.org/govt/tsa.asp#Comment If you're lost for words Here is what I wrote: The proposed security regulation attempts to make cost benefit comparisons and show that the cost associated with the regulations are clearly worth the benefits of avoiding a potential terrorist attack. The reader is lead to conclude that no further analysis is necessary. The analysis does not take into account the value of the freedom of the American people and demonstrated acceptance of risk by the American people. The continual erosion of our way of life in the name of security is unacceptable. Risk is associated with everything a human does. In 2007 37,248 people perished in car accidents in the US. In the same time period, exactly zero died in general aviation related terror incidents. The greatest loss of life associated with the scenarios in the analysis was 3000 from a September 11 type attack. Despite the most horrific scenario that a general aviation security breach could lead to the benefit would only be avoiding 1/10th that of what we willingly accept every year on the roadways. If that the doomsday event happens once every 10 years we are now proposing new limitations on the freedom of the public for 1/100th of the accepted risk associated driving a car. This risk we are trying to prevent is only imagined and not demonstrated the way auto accident risk and risk acceptance is demonstrated year after year. The public is not crying out for auto accident risk mitigation nor should they. This proposal falls in the same category: long odds against relatively minor risks. The analysis may seem to stand muster against the limited scope of risk associated with general aviation but when compared with risks that the American people accept on a daily basis the reality is that general aviation does not pose a significant risk. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.