Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:00 PM - RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim (Terry McCurry)
2. 01:23 PM - Re: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim (Ralph E. Capen)
3. 01:36 PM - Re: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim (Panama Red)
4. 02:36 PM - Re: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
5. 06:31 PM - Re: dual mags (Generation 3 Ignition)
6. 07:29 PM - Re: timing advance (Generation 3 Ignition)
7. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: timing advance (Dale Walter)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim |
Hello List, Recently I purchased a RV 4 that was completed in 1988 by
another builder. The aircraft has as electric trim in the left wing tip
which does not work at this time. I have confirmed that the switch is
sending power (12vdc) out to the servo motor but nothing happens.
Checking the leads from the motor with an ohm meter indicates an open
circuit. My problem is that I can see rivets in the wing tip where the
trim motor is mounted but there is no assess panel to service the motor.
Has anyone got any ideas that might be a solution which would work
other than removing the wing tip?
Thanks
TM
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim |
How is the trim actuated? Is there a tab on the trailing edge or is there a built-in
tab in the trailing edge? Can you get to the 'other' ends of the wiring?
Are there two or five wires? (two being for motor only and five giving you
a position indicator)
Is there a landing/taxi light in the leading edge? That might provide access the
the area forward of the spar. For the area aft of the spar, removing the tip
is the only option that I can dream of.
I made my tips removable as my strobe power packs are out there. If there's stuff
out there that might (ever) need to be worked on, I would figure out a way
to make the tips maintenance oriented.
Just my .02 worth,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR @ N06 8.3 hrs
-----Original Message-----
>From: Terry McCurry <tmccurry@greenwoodcpw.com>
>Sent: Mar 30, 2009 3:55 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim
>
>Hello List, Recently I purchased a RV 4 that was completed in 1988 by
>another builder. The aircraft has as electric trim in the left wing tip
>which does not work at this time. I have confirmed that the switch is
>sending power (12vdc) out to the servo motor but nothing happens.
>Checking the leads from the motor with an ohm meter indicates an open
>circuit. My problem is that I can see rivets in the wing tip where the
>trim motor is mounted but there is no assess panel to service the motor.
>Has anyone got any ideas that might be a solution which would work
>other than removing the wing tip?
>
>Thanks
>
>TM
>
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim |
You can cut your own hole and then make an access panel. But, even
then, I find in the long run you will end up taking the wingtip off
anyway.
I know everyone has a different perspective, but I have been flying for
7 years with no manual or electric trim. I have the manual trim, but I
have not installed it. I don't see any real benefit for the amount of
work involved.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry McCurry
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:55 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim
Hello List, Recently I purchased a RV 4 that was completed in 1988 by
another builder. The aircraft has as electric trim in the left wing tip
which does not work at this time. I have confirmed that the switch is
sending power (12vdc) out to the servo motor but nothing happens.
Checking the leads from the motor with an ohm meter indicates an open
circuit. My problem is that I can see rivets in the wing tip where the
trim motor is mounted but there is no assess panel to service the motor.
Has anyone got any ideas that might be a solution which would work
other than removing the wing tip?
Thanks
TM
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim |
Is the servo attached with rivets and a rod attached to the aileron, or is
everything on the inside of the aileron? Is there an inspection plate
somewhere along the aft edge of the wing? Do you know the previous owner of
the plane and/or the original builder? If you remove the tip, you could
use platenuts or a piano hinge to reinstall the tip. Others have cut an
opening in the tip and then reinstalled the fiberglass with platenuts. This
may be a good way to get into the wing and the worst case is you need a new
tip or fiberglass repair. Just my 2 cents.
Jim
RV9a building
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim
>
> How is the trim actuated? Is there a tab on the trailing edge or is there
> a built-in tab in the trailing edge? Can you get to the 'other' ends of
> the wiring? Are there two or five wires? (two being for motor only and
> five giving you a position indicator)
>
> Is there a landing/taxi light in the leading edge? That might provide
> access the the area forward of the spar. For the area aft of the spar,
> removing the tip is the only option that I can dream of.
>
> I made my tips removable as my strobe power packs are out there. If
> there's stuff out there that might (ever) need to be worked on, I would
> figure out a way to make the tips maintenance oriented.
>
> Just my .02 worth,
>
> Ralph
> RV6A N822AR @ N06 8.3 hrs
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Terry McCurry <tmccurry@greenwoodcpw.com>
>>Sent: Mar 30, 2009 3:55 PM
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: RV 4 Electric Aileron Trim
>>
>>Hello List, Recently I purchased a RV 4 that was completed in 1988 by
>>another builder. The aircraft has as electric trim in the left wing tip
>>which does not work at this time. I have confirmed that the switch is
>>sending power (12vdc) out to the servo motor but nothing happens.
>>Checking the leads from the motor with an ohm meter indicates an open
>>circuit. My problem is that I can see rivets in the wing tip where the
>>trim motor is mounted but there is no assess panel to service the motor.
>>Has anyone got any ideas that might be a solution which would work
>>other than removing the wing tip?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>TM
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hello Glen,
Yes, The G3i system will work with the Bendix dual mag. Since the
internals electrics are the same as the Bendix1200 series magnetos, and
I have done a few of the 1200 series. I personally have not done a
Bendix dual mag modification yet. It would be a good candidate though.
We will have many various types of magnetos that will be modified,
including the Bendix dual mag. at our AirVenture booth this year on
display.
Sincerely,
Thomas Shpakow
Interfacing Aircraft Magnetos
Electronic Multiple Spark Technology
GENERATION 3 IGNITION
2331 W. Hampden Ave. 130
Englewood, CO. 80110
T 303-781-9449
C 303-906-6846
F 303-806-5120
www.g3ignition.com
mail@g3ignition.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: dual mags
I see no mention of Bendix dual mag systems. Can your system be
installed on a dual mag?
Glen
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: timing advance |
Hello Dave,
Well first off, we all know the aircraft engine is of large
displacement, which has a very small rpm window of operation, and to top
it off also, it has very poor air/fuel atomization with a huge
combustion chamber. So, how? Well the fuel economy and extra hp comes
from the Multiple Spark Discharge (MSD). When the first firing event of
the MSD takes place, a flame front is created. As this flame front is
burning in the combustion chamber, there is a swirling turbulence that
takes place. Drawing unburned air/fuel mixture passed the spark plugs.
This is where the MSD come into play. The second and third firing event
then ignites this air/fuel mixture, which creates a quicker complete
burn of the air/fuel mixture as the piston passes through TDC. The MSD
spark is not hotter and doesn't need to be, that is why we do not use
huge spark plug air gaps. As the saying goes, screwing a 75 watt light
bulb into a 300 watt socket the bulb is not going to burn any brighter.
The others all claim to get their advantage from timing advance along
with hotter spark. The key word in the sentence is "spark" that's
singular. With one spark you need more time to get that complete
combustion since it is so slow. The only way is to ramp up (advance)
the timing close to the verge of detonation, and also deliver a hotter
spark hoping that it will have a better chance (only chance) of
ignition. With these timing advances, the cylinder pressures go up
tremendously as the piston travels towards and over TDC. This creates
more ware on engine internals from these pressures. As for a =BD and =BD
mag/electronic advance ignition system.. For example, the electronics
are firing @, let's say 35 degrees and the mag is set at 25 degrees.
Since the combustion has already started, that mag is now confronted
with firing though an incredible amount of cylinder pressure, if it can
at all. I have seen mag failure on the =BD and =BD systems. I hope this
helps some, these will be some of the topics spoken in great detail @
our booth at AirVenture this year.
Sincerely,
Thomas S.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:43 PM
Subject: ***SPAM***Re: FormContactus timing advance
So you are saying there is negligible benefit to advancing timing
greater than 25 degrees BTDC below 12,500 pressure altitude and only a
1% advantage above? Where then does the fuel economy and extra hp you
see with your system come from? The hotter spark? I am really trying
to understand all the different systems out there and yours seems to be
the easiest to install, and I like the mag back-up. But the others all
claim to get their advantage from timing advance along with hotter
spark. I'll be frank, I am torn between your system and Electroair. I
would use a single mag and the Electroair system. Sell me on yours.
Thanks!!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: FormContactus timing advance
Hello Dave,
The G3i system dose not have a timing advance built in. A timing
control module can be added which will give you a adjustable timing
window of 15 degrees from base timing angle. We found in flight
testing/research working with different timing angles, the benefits of
economy and performance of running more than a couple of degrees higher
than the stock manufacture timing setting were not all that beneficial
below 12K. And less than 1% @ altitudes above 12,500ft and less than
60% power. All performance and economy specs.show are @ the stock engine
manufacturer timing angle.
Sincerely,
Thomas Shpakow
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: ***SPAM***Re: FormContactus
Does your system advance timing?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: FormContactus
Hello Dave,
Well, there is really no comparison, Slick/Unison LASAR would be
the closest since it still has the mag redundancy. There are many
benefits to electronic ignitions systems out there, however our product
has the best fall back on redundancy available. You don't have to run
half a ignition system to still have mag redunecy. Its doesn't require
back-up batteries to still operate if you lose the aircraft electrical
system, and/or if a sensor or some other electronic ignition component
fails, the G3i system reverts back to the original magnetos to still
continue ignition firing. The G3i system fires both ignition systems
together in perfect sync. which produces engine smoothness and
performance/economy gains. Fuel economy gains are realistically are from
8% to 14%. On static dynamotor test pulls, 2% - 5% has been record in
pounds of thrust @ 100% power. On starting the G3i provides multiple
spark to both L&R ignitions instantly in sync. making starting much
easier. Does not need 3 crankshaft revolutions to see a signal on when
to fire. Installation is straight forward and easily done. Please ck out
our website on the insall manual or give us a call about our product.
We will be in KOSH Airventure booth 1148 this year also.
Thank you for you inquiry.
Sincerely,
Thomas Shpakow
Interfacing Aircraft Magnetos
Electronic Multiple Spark Technology
GENERATION 3 IGNITION
2331 W. Hampden Ave. 130
Englewood, CO. 80110
T 303-781-9449
C 303-906-6846
F 303-806-5120
www.g3ignition.com
mail@g3ignition.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:56 PM
Subject: FormContactus
> hearabout: matronics RV-10 list
> question: How does your system compare to LASAR or Electroair
and others?
> I am building an RV-10. I was considering Electroair until I
saw your product.
> Ease of install? Any better performance than others? Thanks.
>
> Dave Leikam
> RV-10
> Submit32: Submit
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: timing advance |
I have to protest the allegation that conditions in the combustion
chamber would cause early failure of a magneto. BTW, Before installing
my 2nd (dual) electronic ignition I put 900 hours on a slick mag (while
running the Electroair), working perfect at the time of removal. Proper
use of the Electroair or Lightspeed systems reduces CHTs and increases
horsepower. There are many well educated pilots on this forum. Your
system may be good, but please stick to the facts.
Dale
RV6a
0-360 Electroair / Lightspeed, dual electric sys
----- Original Message -----
From: Generation 3 Ignition
To: Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:25 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: timing advance
Hello Dave,
Well first off, we all know the aircraft engine is of large
displacement, which has a very small rpm window of operation, and to top
it off also, it has very poor air/fuel atomization with a huge
combustion chamber. So, how? Well the fuel economy and extra hp comes
from the Multiple Spark Discharge (MSD). When the first firing event of
the MSD takes place, a flame front is created. As this flame front is
burning in the combustion chamber, there is a swirling turbulence that
takes place. Drawing unburned air/fuel mixture passed the spark plugs.
This is where the MSD come into play. The second and third firing event
then ignites this air/fuel mixture, which creates a quicker complete
burn of the air/fuel mixture as the piston passes through TDC. The MSD
spark is not hotter and doesn't need to be, that is why we do not use
huge spark plug air gaps. As the saying goes, screwing a 75 watt light
bulb into a 300 watt socket the bulb is not going to burn any brighter.
The others all claim to get their advantage from timing advance along
with hotter spark. The key word in the sentence is "spark" that's
singular. With one spark you need more time to get that complete
combustion since it is so slow. The only way is to ramp up (advance)
the timing close to the verge of detonation, and also deliver a hotter
spark hoping that it will have a better chance (only chance) of
ignition. With these timing advances, the cylinder pressures go up
tremendously as the piston travels towards and over TDC. This creates
more ware on engine internals from these pressures. As for a =BD and =BD
mag/electronic advance ignition system.. For example, the electronics
are firing @, let's say 35 degrees and the mag is set at 25 degrees.
Since the combustion has already started, that mag is now confronted
with firing though an incredible amount of cylinder pressure, if it can
at all. I have seen mag failure on the =BD and =BD systems. I hope this
helps some, these will be some of the topics spoken in great detail @
our booth at AirVenture this year.
Sincerely,
Thomas S.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:43 PM
Subject: ***SPAM***Re: FormContactus timing advance
So you are saying there is negligible benefit to advancing timing
greater than 25 degrees BTDC below 12,500 pressure altitude and only a
1% advantage above? Where then does the fuel economy and extra hp you
see with your system come from? The hotter spark? I am really trying
to understand all the different systems out there and yours seems to be
the easiest to install, and I like the mag back-up. But the others all
claim to get their advantage from timing advance along with hotter
spark. I'll be frank, I am torn between your system and Electroair. I
would use a single mag and the Electroair system. Sell me on yours.
Thanks!!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: FormContactus timing advance
Hello Dave,
The G3i system dose not have a timing advance built in. A timing
control module can be added which will give you a adjustable timing
window of 15 degrees from base timing angle. We found in flight
testing/research working with different timing angles, the benefits of
economy and performance of running more than a couple of degrees higher
than the stock manufacture timing setting were not all that beneficial
below 12K. And less than 1% @ altitudes above 12,500ft and less than
60% power. All performance and economy specs.show are @ the stock engine
manufacturer timing angle.
Sincerely,
Thomas Shpakow
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: ***SPAM***Re: FormContactus
Does your system advance timing?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: FormContactus
Hello Dave,
Well, there is really no comparison, Slick/Unison LASAR would
be the closest since it still has the mag redundancy. There are many
benefits to electronic ignitions systems out there, however our product
has the best fall back on redundancy available. You don't have to run
half a ignition system to still have mag redunecy. Its doesn't require
back-up batteries to still operate if you lose the aircraft electrical
system, and/or if a sensor or some other electronic ignition component
fails, the G3i system reverts back to the original magnetos to still
continue ignition firing. The G3i system fires both ignition systems
together in perfect sync. which produces engine smoothness and
performance/economy gains. Fuel economy gains are realistically are from
8% to 14%. On static dynamotor test pulls, 2% - 5% has been record in
pounds of thrust @ 100% power. On starting the G3i provides multiple
spark to both L&R ignitions instantly in sync. making starting much
easier. Does not need 3 crankshaft revolutions to see a signal on when
to fire. Installation is straight forward and easily done. Please ck out
our website on the insall manual or give us a call about our product.
We will be in KOSH Airventure booth 1148 this year also.
Thank you for you inquiry.
Sincerely,
Thomas Shpakow
Interfacing Aircraft Magnetos
Electronic Multiple Spark Technology
GENERATION 3 IGNITION
2331 W. Hampden Ave. 130
Englewood, CO. 80110
T 303-781-9449
C 303-906-6846
F 303-806-5120
www.g3ignition.com
mail@g3ignition.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:56 PM
Subject: FormContactus
> hearabout: matronics RV-10 list
> question: How does your system compare to LASAR or
Electroair and others?
> I am building an RV-10. I was considering Electroair until
I saw your product.
> Ease of install? Any better performance than others?
Thanks.
>
> Dave Leikam
> RV-10
> Submit32: Submit
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|