---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/03/09: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:43 AM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Mike Robertson) 2. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: converting an RV to LSA (rv6n@optonline.net) 3. 12:11 PM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Louis Willig) 4. 01:22 PM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (SteinAir, Inc.) 5. 01:37 PM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (linn) 6. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: Oxygen (Sherman Butler) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:00 AM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'. The long answer is twofold. Once your aircraft has been given a gross weig ht over 1320 you can't go back. The next answer is that once an aircraft i s certificated in a class it can't be changed over to LSA. Why?....Because it does not have to. If the aircraft in question meets the definition of a n LSA aircraft per FAR 1 then the aircraft may be operated under the LSA ru les irregardless of the aircracft certification category=2C Experimental=2C Standard=2C whatever. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: rv6n@optonline.net Subject: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA Dear RVers This might sound ridiculous but does anyone know if it is possible to conve rt a registered RV6 to fly within the LSA guidelines? I know it might take mountains of changes but I am just wondering if it is at all possible. So me of the obstacles to overcome would include addressing the the weight=2C I think that might be possible by stripping out all the niceties and gettin g back to only what is basic. Another way to reduce the weight is by doing what one of the LSA companies do which is to just say that the baggage cap acity is now only xx instead of what it is actually capable of. The next c oncern is speed at full power. With the existing O-360 this might be diffi cult. One LSA company uses a ground adjustable prop to limit the max speed of their airplane=2C so I am sure that would help. Eliminating the good l ooking wheel pants could add some drag too. Some props have RPM restriction s which must be adhered to willingly. Can the operating limitations specif y a maximum speed of 120 kts or an RPM that limits the speed to 120 kts. S ome LSAs have a higher RPM for a maximum number of minutes for take-off and then a reduced RPM thereafter. How could the clean stall speed be reduced to 52 MPH? Would the lighter weight and maybe some vortex generators acco mplish that? From what I have read=2C no plane can be flown as an LSA unle ss it has always been able to fly within the parameters of one=2C so=2C is it possible to de-register my RV6=2C surrender the data plate and re-regist er it as a plane that is capable of flying within the LSA parameters. Maybe I am crazy for wondering about this but I am not interested in buildi ng another plane =2Cthe market has been too soft for selling at a reasonabl e price and I don't want to spend $125=2C000 for an LSA. I am sure I am no t the only one with a medical problem that has wondered this=2C so is this doable or just a foolish wish. Bob _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto rial_Storage1_052009 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:09 AM PST US From: rv6n@optonline.net Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA Dear Mike=2C I was speaking with the people selling the Paradise LSA from Brazil and they said that in Brazil they have their plane certified as a four seate r with a gross weight in excess of 1700 lbs=2E In order to certify it L SA in the USA they removed the two rear seats and declared the baggage c apacity to be less=2E Is this something totally different=3F Is it poss ible to de register the RV and apply all over again=3F I suppose it is time to moth-ball the RV=2E Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Mike Robertson Date=3A Sunday=2C May 3=2C 2009 12=3A53 pm Subject=3A RE=3A RV-List=3A converting an RV to LSA To=3A rv list =3E =3E The simple answer to your questino is =27NO=27=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E The long answer is twofold=2E Once your aircraft has been given a =3E gross weight over 1320 you can=27t go back=2E The next answer is =3E that once an aircraft is certificated in a class it can=27t be =3E changed over to LSA=2E Why=3F=2E=2E=2E=2EBecause it does not have to =2E If =3E the aircraft in question meets the definition of an LSA aircraft =3E per FAR 1 then the aircraft may be operated under the LSA rules =3E irregardless of the aircracft certification category=2C =3E Experimental=2C Standard=2C whatever=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E Mike Robertson =3E =3E Das Fed =3E =3E =3E =3E Date=3A Sun=2C 3 May 2009 02=3A08=3A49 +0000 =3E From=3A rv6n=40optonline=2Enet =3E Subject=3A RV-List=3A converting an RV to LSA =3E To=3A rv-list=40matronics=2Ecom =3E =3E =3E =3E Dear RVers =3E =3E This might sound ridiculous but does anyone know if it is =3E possible to convert a registered RV6 to fly within the LSA =3E guidelines=3F I know it might take mountains of changes but I am =3E just wondering if it is at all possible=2E Some of the obstacles =3E to overcome would include addressing the the weight=2C I think =3E that might be possible by stripping out all the niceties and =3E getting back to only what is basic=2E Another way to reduce the =3E weight is by doing what one of the LSA companies do which is to =3E just say that the baggage capacity is now only xx instead of =3E what it is actually capable of=2E The next concern is speed at =3E full power=2E With the existing O-360 this might be difficult=2E =3E One LSA company uses a ground adjustable prop to limit the max =3E speed of their airplane=2C so I am sure that would help=2E =3E Eliminating the good looking wheel pants could add some drag =3E too=2E Some props have RPM restrictions which must be adhered to =3E willingly=2E Can the operating limitations specify a maximum =3E speed of 120 kts or an RPM that limits the speed to 120 kts=2E =3E Some LSAs have a higher RPM for a maximum number of minutes for =3E take-off and then a reduced RPM thereafter=2E How could the clean =3E stall speed be reduced to 52 MPH=3F Would the lighter weight and =3E maybe some vortex generators accomplish that=3F From what I have =3E read=2C no plane can be flown as an LSA unless it has always been =3E able to fly within the parameters of one=2C so=2C is it possible to =3E de-register my RV6=2C surrender the data plate and re-register it =3E as a plane that is capable of flying within the LSA parameters=2E =3E =3E Maybe I am crazy for wondering about this but I am not =3E interested in building another plane =2Cthe market has been too =3E soft for selling at a reasonable price and I don=27t want to spend =3E =24125=2C000 for an LSA=2E I am sure I am not the only one with a =3E medical problem that has wondered this=2C so is this doable or =3E just a foolish wish=2E =3E =3E Bob =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage lim its=2E =3E http=3A//windowslive=2Ecom/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage=3Focid=TXT=5FT AGLM=5FWL=5FHM=5FTutorial=5FStorage1=5F052009 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:28 PM PST US From: Louis Willig Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA At 12:36 PM 5/3/2009, you wrote: >The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'. > >gross weight over 1320 you can't go back.> Mike, I know it is not *very* easy, but can't you make some "minor" change in your airframe, power plant, or prop and then declare that the aircraft no longer has the ability to carry 1320 + lbs? Then apply for the "self conducted" 5 hour re-certification. Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:20 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA Again - NO. However, if you did all that before you ever got the airplane certified then it may be possible. This is no different than trying to change a fat ercoupe or fat chief that were to heavy for LSA...or a C-120/140. You simply can't go backwards with the paperwork, even if you can with the physical plane. There are a lot of planes that could be "lightened", but that in itself won't work because the paperwork at one time said your plane had a higher gross weight. I think it's pretty clear in my opinion. I would put my efforts into just building an LSA the first time. My 2 cents as usual. Cheers, Stein >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Louis Willig >Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 2:07 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA > > > >At 12:36 PM 5/3/2009, you wrote: >>The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'. >> >>>gross weight over 1320 you can't go back.> > >Mike, > >I know it is not *very* easy, but can't you make some "minor" change >in your airframe, power plant, or prop and then declare that the >aircraft no longer has the ability to carry 1320 + lbs? Then apply >for the "self conducted" 5 hour re-certification. > > >Louis I Willig >1640 Oakwood Dr. >Penn Valley, PA 19072 >610 668-4964 >RV-4, N180PF >190HP IO-360, C/S prop > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:17 PM PST US From: linn Subject: Re: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA SteinAir, Inc. wrote: > > Again - NO. snip > > I think it's pretty clear in my opinion. I would put my efforts into just > building an LSA the first time. And you could build your RV very light, the way you want it. You could probably remove the data plate from the engine, put a smaller carb on it, ...... to derate the engine ..... and have it meet all the LSA requirements ...... and then fix the problems later after certification and the phase 1 testing. And you'd end up with the same airplane in the LSA category. Far more work than you really want, I guess, but still easier than making the present plane fit the category. Turning in the airworthiness certificate, making the changes to make the airplane legal LSA and re-certifying it may work. Stranger things have happened. Linn > > My 2 cents as usual. > > Cheers, > Stein > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Louis Willig >> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 2:07 PM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA >> >> >> >> At 12:36 PM 5/3/2009, you wrote: >>> The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'. >>> >>> >> gross weight over 1320 you can't go back.> >> Mike, >> >> I know it is not *very* easy, but can't you make some "minor" change >> in your airframe, power plant, or prop and then declare that the >> aircraft no longer has the ability to carry 1320 + lbs? Then apply >> for the "self conducted" 5 hour re-certification. >> >> >> >> >> >> Louis I Willig >> 1640 Oakwood Dr. >> Penn Valley, PA 19072 >> 610 668-4964 >> RV-4, N180PF >> 190HP IO-360, C/S prop >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:17 PM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oxygen - I suggest one purchase a new 244cu ft or a 300cu ft.cylinder, or more for c ascade filling,-then paint or stamp your name on the cylinder then insist (eccentric request so fake a tic) on getting your marked cylinder back if your are worried about contamination. Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings N497GS reserved Carlsbad, NM --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Tim Olson wrote: Welders are also very concerned with purity of gasses or their welds will be contaminated or weak. So everyone has a huge concern for gas purity.- Thay may have been why they decided to go to single-source filling.- Like I said before though, there are some situations where they will pull a vacuum on a cylinder before filling it, to empty it first.- So they may do this for some medical/aviation O2, hence that may be why they just want to swap you.- But, if you're always filling it with pure O2 you have no worries. Additionally, one thing you should try to do is never run your bottle completely empty.- Keeping 100psi in it at all times will ensure that no contamination gets in. =0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.