Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:53 AM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Peter Laurence)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Ron Lee)
3. 10:07 AM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Mike Robertson)
4. 10:23 AM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Mike Robertson)
5. 11:49 AM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Kevin Horton)
6. 01:20 PM - Re: converting an RV to LSA (Mike Robertson)
7. 02:28 PM - RV6A Strange Odor (Jim Hurd)
8. 02:41 PM - Re: RV6A Strange Odor (Matt Dralle)
9. 03:25 PM - Re: RV6A Strange Odor (Charles Kuss)
10. 03:40 PM - Re: RV6A Strange Odor ()
11. 03:47 PM - Re: RV6A Strange Odor (Ron Lee)
12. 07:49 PM - Re: RV6A Strange Odor (Les Kearney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | converting an RV to LSA |
Bob,
My 2 cents
If you want to fly an LSA and stay with a vans, buy a RV9A. This plane can
be certified LSA with an. appropriate engine/prop.
Peter
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv6n@optonline.net
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 10:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
Dear RVers
This might sound ridiculous but does anyone know if it is possible to
convert a registered RV6 to fly within the LSA guidelines? I know it might
take mountains of changes but I am just wondering if it is at all possible.
Some of the obstacles to overcome would include addressing the the weight, I
think that might be possible by stripping out all the niceties and getting
back to only what is basic. Another way to reduce the weight is by doing
what one of the LSA companies do which is to just say that the baggage
capacity is now only xx instead of what it is actually capable of. The next
concern is speed at full power. With the existing O-360 this might be
difficult. One LSA company uses a ground adjustable prop to limit the max
speed of their airplane, so I am sure that would help. Eliminating the good
looking wheel pants could add some drag too. Some props have RPM
restrictions which must be adhered to willingly. Can the operating
limitations specify a maximum speed of 120 kts or an RPM that limits the
speed to 120 kts. Some LSAs have a higher RPM for a maximum number of
minutes for take-off and then a reduced RPM thereafter. How could the clean
stall speed be reduced to 52 MPH? Would the lighter weight and maybe some
vortex generators accomplish that? From what I have read, no plane can be
flown as an LSA unless it has always been able to fly within the parameters
of one, so, is it possible to de-register my RV6, surrender the data plate
and re-register it as a plane that is capable of flying within the LSA
parameters.
Maybe I am crazy for wondering about this but I am not interested in
building another plane ,the market has been too soft for selling at a
reasonable price and I don't want to spend $125,000 for an LSA. I am sure I
am not the only one with a medical problem that has wondered this, so is
this doable or just a foolish wish.
Bob
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: converting an RV to LSA |
Have you examined a trade...RV for an LSA?
Ron Lee
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | converting an RV to LSA |
Answer #1 is yes=2C they can do that as they are the manufacturer and it is
for brand new aircraft that have never received an airworthiness certifica
te.
Answer #2 is NO=2C sorry. The FAA keeps track of the serial number as well
as the 'N' number.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
From: rv6n@optonline.net
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
Dear Mike=2C
I was speaking with the people selling the Paradise LSA from Brazil and the
y said that in Brazil they have their plane certified as a four seater with
a gross weight in excess of 1700 lbs. In order to certify it LSA in the U
SA they removed the two rear seats and declared the baggage capacity to be
less. Is this something totally different? Is it possible to de register t
he RV and apply all over again?
I suppose it is time to moth-ball the RV.
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Robertson
Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
>
> The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'.
>
>
>
> The long answer is twofold. Once your aircraft has been given a
> gross weight over 1320 you can't go back. The next answer is
> that once an aircraft is certificated in a class it can't be
> changed over to LSA. Why?....Because it does not have to. If
> the aircraft in question meets the definition of an LSA aircraft
> per FAR 1 then the aircraft may be operated under the LSA rules
> irregardless of the aircracft certification category=2C
> Experimental=2C Standard=2C whatever.
>
>
>
> Mike Robertson
>
> Das Fed
>
>
>
> Date: Sun=2C 3 May 2009 02:08:49 +0000
> From: rv6n@optonline.net
> Subject: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Dear RVers
>
> This might sound ridiculous but does anyone know if it is
> possible to convert a registered RV6 to fly within the LSA
> guidelines? I know it might take mountains of changes but I am
> just wondering if it is at all possible. Some of the obstacles
> to overcome would include addressing the the weight=2C I think
> that might be possible by stripping out all the niceties and
> getting back to only what is basic. Another way to reduce the
> weight is by doing what one of the LSA companies do which is to
> just say that the baggage capacity is now only xx instead of
> what it is actually capable of. The next concern is speed at
> full power. With the existing O-360 this might be difficult.
> One LSA company uses a ground adjustable prop to limit the max
> speed of their airplane=2C so I am sure that would help.
> Eliminating the good looking wheel pants could add some drag
> too. Some props have RPM restrictions which must be adhered to
> willingly. Can the operating limitations specify a maximum
> speed of 120 kts or an RPM that limits the speed to 120 kts.
> Some LSAs have a higher RPM for a maximum number of minutes for
> take-off and then a reduced RPM thereafter. How could the clean
> stall speed be reduced to 52 MPH? Would the lighter weight and
> maybe some vortex generators accomplish that? From what I have
> read=2C no plane can be flown as an LSA unless it has always been
> able to fly within the parameters of one=2C so=2C is it possible to
> de-register my RV6=2C surrender the data plate and re-register it
> as a plane that is capable of flying within the LSA parameters.
>
> Maybe I am crazy for wondering about this but I am not
> interested in building another plane =2Cthe market has been too
> soft for selling at a reasonable price and I don't want to spend
> $125=2C000 for an LSA. I am sure I am not the only one with a
> medical problem that has wondered this=2C so is this doable or
> just a foolish wish.
>
> Bob
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tu
torial_Storage1_052009
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Message 4
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| Subject: | converting an RV to LSA |
Unfortunately no. The opening statement in FAR 1 for a light-sport aircraf
t states "Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft=2C other than a helicopter
or powered-lift that=2C since its original certification=2C has continued
to meet the following:".
There are several standard category aircraft that this hurt. A prime examp
le is the Ercoupe. The 'C' model meets light-sport weights but the 'D' mod
el does not. Numerous 'C' models were converted to 'D' models. Now they w
ant to go back to being a 'C' model but they can't because of this wording.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
> Date: Sun=2C 3 May 2009 15:06:54 -0400
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> From: larywil@comcast.net
> Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
>
>
> At 12:36 PM 5/3/2009=2C you wrote:
> >The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'.
> >
> ><The long answer is twofold. Once your aircraft has been given a
> >gross weight over 1320 you can't go back.>
>
> Mike=2C
>
> I know it is not *very* easy=2C but can't you make some "minor" change
> in your airframe=2C power plant=2C or prop and then declare that the
> aircraft no longer has the ability to carry 1320 + lbs? Then apply
> for the "self conducted" 5 hour re-certification.
>
>
>
>
>
> Louis I Willig
> 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> Penn Valley=2C PA 19072
> 610 668-4964
> RV-4=2C N180PF
> 190HP IO-360=2C C/S prop
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: converting an RV to LSA |
If you had an existing RV, with an airworthiness certificate, you
would probably need to make quite a few modifications before you could
legitimately claim it met LSA specs. What if, after making these
changes, the manufacturer (you) decided that the changes were
substantial enough that this was really a new design. After
assembling the modified amateur-built components from the old
aircraft, the manufacturer installs a new data plate, with a new model
and serial number, and with a gross weight of 1320 lb. Bingo - a
potential LSA, assuming flight tests show it meets LSA specs.
Why wouldn't this work?
Kevin Horton
On 4 May 2009, at 13:06, Mike Robertson wrote:
> Unfortunately no. The opening statement in FAR 1 for a light-sport
> aircraft states "Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than
> a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification,
> has continued to meet the following:".
>
> There are several standard category aircraft that this hurt. A
> prime example is the Ercoupe. The 'C' model meets light-sport
> weights but the 'D' model does not. Numerous 'C' models were
> converted to 'D' models. Now they want to go back to being a 'C'
> model but they can't because of this wording.
>
> Mike Robertson
> Das Fed
>
> > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 15:06:54 -0400
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > From: larywil@comcast.net
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
> >
> >
> > At 12:36 PM 5/3/2009, you wrote:
> > >The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'.
> > >
> > ><The long answer is twofold. Once your aircraft has been given a
> > >gross weight over 1320 you can't go back.>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > I know it is not *very* easy, but can't you make some "minor" change
> > in your airframe, power plant, or prop and then declare that the
> > aircraft no longer has the ability to carry 1320 + lbs? Then apply
> > for the "self conducted" 5 hour re-certification.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Louis I Willig
> > 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> > Penn Valley, PA 19072
> > 610 668-4964
> > RV-4, N180PF
> >= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> &g=
> >
> >
> >
Message 6
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| Subject: | converting an RV to LSA |
It might. there are a couple of RV-9A's in Florida that are LSA qualified.
Mike Robertson
> From: khorton01@rogers.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
> Date: Mon=2C 4 May 2009 14:36:15 -0400
>
>
> If you had an existing RV=2C with an airworthiness certificate=2C you
> would probably need to make quite a few modifications before you could
> legitimately claim it met LSA specs. What if=2C after making these
> changes=2C the manufacturer (you) decided that the changes were
> substantial enough that this was really a new design. After
> assembling the modified amateur-built components from the old
> aircraft=2C the manufacturer installs a new data plate=2C with a new mode
l
> and serial number=2C and with a gross weight of 1320 lb. Bingo - a
> potential LSA=2C assuming flight tests show it meets LSA specs.
>
> Why wouldn't this work?
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
> On 4 May 2009=2C at 13:06=2C Mike Robertson wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately no. The opening statement in FAR 1 for a light-sport
> > aircraft states "Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft=2C other than
> > a helicopter or powered-lift that=2C since its original certification
=2C
> > has continued to meet the following:".
> >
> > There are several standard category aircraft that this hurt. A
> > prime example is the Ercoupe. The 'C' model meets light-sport
> > weights but the 'D' model does not. Numerous 'C' models were
> > converted to 'D' models. Now they want to go back to being a 'C'
> > model but they can't because of this wording.
> >
> > Mike Robertson
> > Das Fed
> >
> > > Date: Sun=2C 3 May 2009 15:06:54 -0400
> > > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > From: larywil@comcast.net
> > > Subject: RE: RV-List: converting an RV to LSA
> > >
> > >
> > > At 12:36 PM 5/3/2009=2C you wrote:
> > > >The simple answer to your questino is 'NO'.
> > > >
> > > ><The long answer is twofold. Once your aircraft has been given a
> > > >gross weight over 1320 you can't go back.>
> > >
> > > Mike=2C
> > >
> > > I know it is not *very* easy=2C but can't you make some "minor" chang
e
> > > in your airframe=2C power plant=2C or prop and then declare that the
> > > aircraft no longer has the ability to carry 1320 + lbs? Then apply
> > > for the "self conducted" 5 hour re-certification.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Louis I Willig
> > > 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> > > Penn Valley=2C PA 19072
> > > 610 668-4964
> > > RV-4=2C N180PF
> > >= Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C
> > &g=
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 7
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| Subject: | RV6A Strange Odor |
Hope somebody can help out here... Last two flights in 6A(500hr TT,
hangared, south Texas) have noticed stong odor right at liftoff.
Something between dead rat and burned pizza. Definitely organic, not
wiring, rubber or oil. It comes and goes during flight, maybe a little
stronger at zero G. Fades at touchdown, completely gone by shutdown. No
other aircraft anomalies observed.
There is a faint odor similar to burnt toast at the oil filler door.
Detailed engine inspection revealed no bird nests, dirt-dauber
dormitories or other usual suspects. No wires or hoses anywhere near
hot parts. Nothing in cabin heat or fresh air scat tubing. Next to
check: tail cone and wheel pants.
Would sure like to hear from anyone who has solved a similar problem.
And yes, the pilot's diet and bathing habits have been ruled out
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV6A Strange Odor |
At 02:24 PM 5/4/2009 Monday, you wrote:
>Hope somebody can help out here... Last two flights in 6A(500hr TT, hangared,
south Texas) have noticed stong odor right at liftoff. Something between dead
rat and burned pizza. Definitely organic, not wiring, rubber or oil. It comes
and goes during flight, maybe a little stronger at zero G. Fades at touchdown,
completely gone by shutdown. No other aircraft anomalies observed.
>
>There is a faint odor similar to burnt toast at the oil filler door. Detailed
engine inspection revealed no bird nests, dirt-dauber dormitories or other usual
suspects. No wires or hoses anywhere near hot parts. Nothing in cabin heat
or fresh air scat tubing. Next to check: tail cone and wheel pants.
>
>Would sure like to hear from anyone who has solved a similar problem. And yes,
the pilot's diet and bathing habits have been ruled out
Burnt toast? Sure you're not having a stroke...
;-)
Matt
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV6A Strange Odor |
You might want to shine a flashlight up your exhaust stacks. You might have a crematorium
going on in one of them. :-( Stick a coat hanger up to verify that
there are no obstructions.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Jim Hurd <hurd@gvtc.com> wrote:
> From: Jim Hurd <hurd@gvtc.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV6A Strange Odor
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 5:24 PM
> Hope somebody can help out here... Last two flights in
> 6A(500hr TT, hangared, south Texas) have noticed stong odor
> right at liftoff. Something between dead rat and burned
> pizza. Definitely organic, not wiring, rubber or oil. It
> comes and goes during flight, maybe a little stronger at
> zero G. Fades at touchdown, completely gone by shutdown. No
> other aircraft anomalies observed.
>
> There is a faint odor similar to burnt toast at the oil
> filler door. Detailed engine inspection revealed no bird
> nests, dirt-dauber dormitories or other usual suspects. No
> wires or hoses anywhere near hot parts. Nothing in cabin
> heat or fresh air scat tubing. Next to check: tail cone and
> wheel pants.
>
> Would sure like to hear from anyone who has solved a
> similar problem. And yes, the pilot's diet and bathing
> habits have been ruled out
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV6A Strange Odor |
Have a look in your wheel pants
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hurd
Sent: Tuesday, 5 May 2009 7:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV6A Strange Odor
Hope somebody can help out here... Last two flights in 6A(500hr TT, hangar
ed, south Texas) have noticed stong odor right at liftoff. Something betwe
en dead rat and burned pizza. Definitely organic, not wiring, rubber or oi
l. It comes and goes during flight, maybe a little stronger at zero G. Fa
des at touchdown, completely gone by shutdown. No other aircraft anomalies
observed.
There is a faint odor similar to burnt toast at the oil filler door. Detai
led engine inspection revealed no bird nests, dirt-dauber dormitories or ot
her usual suspects. No wires or hoses anywhere near hot parts. Nothing in
cabin heat or fresh air scat tubing. Next to check: tail cone and wheel p
ants.
Would sure like to hear from anyone who has solved a similar problem. And
yes, the pilot's diet and bathing habits have been ruled out
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV6A Strange Odor |
Sounds like fear of flying. :)
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | RV6A Strange Odor |
Matt
A few years ago I found hazelnut shells on the floor of my Piper Cherokee. I
never could figure out where they came from. Fast forward a year or two and
I found that *something* made a nest in the insulation behind the panel. I
only found it when I replaced the stock 1966 Piper insulation with something
newer.
Bottom line is to check carefully behind the panel. I had been on my back
under the panel(as was my avionics shop) several times and had never seen
the nest.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: May-04-09 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A Strange Odor
At 02:24 PM 5/4/2009 Monday, you wrote:
>Hope somebody can help out here... Last two flights in 6A(500hr TT,
hangared, south Texas) have noticed stong odor right at liftoff. Something
between dead rat and burned pizza. Definitely organic, not wiring, rubber
or oil. It comes and goes during flight, maybe a little stronger at zero G.
Fades at touchdown, completely gone by shutdown. No other aircraft anomalies
observed.
>
>There is a faint odor similar to burnt toast at the oil filler door.
Detailed engine inspection revealed no bird nests, dirt-dauber dormitories
or other usual suspects. No wires or hoses anywhere near hot parts.
Nothing in cabin heat or fresh air scat tubing. Next to check: tail cone
and wheel pants.
>
>Would sure like to hear from anyone who has solved a similar problem. And
yes, the pilot's diet and bathing habits have been ruled out
Burnt toast? Sure you're not having a stroke...
;-)
Matt
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