---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/25/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:52 AM - Re: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? (Richard Martin) 2. 10:04 AM - Re: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? (Matt Dralle) 3. 10:55 AM - (no subject) (Rquinn1@aol.com) 4. 11:18 AM - Re: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge (Richard Martin) 5. 11:22 AM - Re: (no subject) (Ralph E. Capen) 6. 11:42 AM - Re: (no subject) (Mike Robertson) 7. 01:26 PM - Re: Training (Fisher Paul A.) 8. 02:13 PM - Re: Training (Carlos Hernandez) 9. 03:03 PM - Re: Training (Reuven Silberman) 10. 03:24 PM - Re: Training (Mike Robertson) 11. 03:30 PM - Re: Training (Jerry Springer) 12. 04:25 PM - transition training in Arizona? (thomas sargent) 13. 06:06 PM - Re: transition training in Arizona? (Ralph Finch) 14. 06:14 PM - Re: transition training in Arizona? (Brian Meyette) 15. 06:52 PM - Re: transition training in Arizona? (Reuven Silberman) 16. 08:55 PM - Re: transition training in Arizona? (thomas sargent) 17. 10:52 PM - Big Iron Envy (Robin Marks) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:58 AM PST US From: "Richard Martin" Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? When I built my RV8, I attempted to use the SW cooler recommended by vans, however it was inadequate. Upon advice of Monty Barrette, and Dave Anders (still the fastest RV) I obtained a Niagara/Harrison 10 cooler and mounted it on the rear baffle behind cyl 4 and tilted it down approximately 35 degrees (tilt as much as possible without contacting engine mount) (it will be necessary to remove some metal from the flange on the cooler to prevent contact with engine mount tube). This set up has proven to be excellent providing good cooling in all temperatures up to 95 degrees outside air including the Air Venture races when I run at 100 percent of power at low altitude for over 2 hours (2700 rpm, 27-29 inch manifold pressure) average indicated airspeeds are 220-235mph depending on OAT. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:08 PM Subject: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? > --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > Hey, what size oil cooler to the RV-10's use? Is it the same on on > the -7's and -8's? "Oil Cooler II". Or, do they use a larger one? > > I've got a SW10610R for my IO-390 on the RV-8 which is a monster sized > cooler. The stock "FF-709" mounting bracket is way too small. Does Van's > have a larger one available? What's used on the RV-10? > > I guess that I could make one, but I'd rather Van's CNC punch did, if you > know what I mean...? > > Thanks! > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > FWF > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:47 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? Thanks for the feedback Richard. Do you have some pictures of your installation you could post to the Lists? BTW, your computer clock is 5 days behind. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle FWF At 08:33 AM 8/20/2009 Thursday, you wrote: > >When I built my RV8, I attempted to use the SW cooler recommended by vans, however it was inadequate. Upon advice of Monty Barrette, and Dave Anders (still the fastest RV) I obtained a Niagara/Harrison 10 cooler and mounted it on the rear baffle behind cyl 4 and tilted it down approximately 35 degrees (tilt as much as possible without contacting engine mount) (it will be necessary to remove some metal from the flange on the cooler to prevent contact with engine mount tube). This set up has proven to be excellent providing good cooling in all temperatures up to 95 degrees outside air including the Air Venture races when I run at 100 percent of power at low altitude for over 2 hours (2700 rpm, 27-29 inch manifold pressure) average indicated airspeeds are 220-235mph depending on OAT. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" >To: ; ; >Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:08 PM >Subject: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? > > >>--> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle >> >> >>Hey, what size oil cooler to the RV-10's use? Is it the same on on the -7's and -8's? "Oil Cooler II". Or, do they use a larger one? >> >>I've got a SW10610R for my IO-390 on the RV-8 which is a monster sized cooler. The stock "FF-709" mounting bracket is way too small. Does Van's have a larger one available? What's used on the RV-10? >> >>I guess that I could make one, but I'd rather Van's CNC punch did, if you know what I mean...? >> >>Thanks! >> >>Matt Dralle >>RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle >>FWF ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:37 AM PST US From: Rquinn1@aol.com Subject: RV-List: (no subject) RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:45 AM PST US From: "Richard Martin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge 8 years ago when I was finishing my RV8, I was confronted with similar problems. I solved them by obtaining a full scale drawing of the wing airfoil and making a full size plywood template of the airfoil. I then tra nsferred the shape to the wing which allowed me to obtain perfect alignment of the flap, aeleron and the wing tip on both wings. Later after I had the airplane flying and de bugged, I then addressed the wing heavy problem. I split the outboard edge of the wing tip and then reformed the outboard trailing edge up or down as needed to get the airplane to fly level. When I was satisfied, I reglued the trailing edge and outboard edge as necessary. Good luck. Dick Martin N233 RV8 The fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Finch" Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > > I'm assembling an RV-9A QB. I have a question about the fiberglass wing > tip. > > With wing in a cradle and the aileron bellcrank jig in place I put a > straight-edge to the designated holes on the end rib and adjusted the > aileron to proper alignment. Then I began fitting the wing tip. The > trailing edge of the tip is about 1/4" out of alignment with the aileron > trailing edge. Vans instructions say the two TEs should be aligned but no > guidance how to achieve that. > > I was going to ignore the 1/4" misalignment, but on further research some > say that a tip misalignment will contribute to a wing heavy or light. > Makes > sense, since the wing tip is 12" wide there and outboard of the aileron. > Some make it align by cutting through the tip TE, separating the top and > bottom somewhat to allow them to slide a bit so the tip will align with > the > aileron. I'm reluctant to do that. And I got a brainstorm that maybe > careful heating of the wing tip aft, top and bottom, would allow the > fiberglass to "move" enough for the small adjustment. > > So my questions are: > > * Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? > * If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is > this a fool's idea? > > Thanks in Advance-- > Ralph Finch > Davis, CA > Rv-9A QB SA > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:58 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: (no subject) I got some transition/refresher training in December in Georgia. Pierre Smith has a RV6A and his CFI ticket (then anyway). I don't know verbatim - but I think that it has to undergo 100hr inspections and get a training permit from the FAA. Pierre would know. http://www.rv-transitiontraining.com/ Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- >From: Rquinn1@aol.com >Sent: Aug 25, 2009 1:46 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: (no subject) > >RVers > >What is the current status of using a RV for training? > >Thanks >Rollie >RV6A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:36 AM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: (no subject) If it is free to use or it is yours then have at it. If it is on a trainin g exemption then it can be used for transition training and you can pay for its use. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: Rquinn1@aol.com Subject: RV-List: (no subject) RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:31 PM PST US From: "Fisher Paul A." Subject: RE: RV-List: Training So is it OK to use my aircraft ("free" as Mike says below), but still pay a n instructor? In the overall transaction there would be compensation chang ing hands, but it would only be for the instructor's time, not the plane it self. The operating limitations specifically say "No person may operate this airc raft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire". I'd simpl y like to pay an instructor to check out other people (specifically my son) in my plane. I don't think that violates the intent of the operating limi tations, but I don't want to violate the letter of them either! Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF - 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic question f or another 25 hours! From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson If it is free to use or it is yours then have at it. If it is on a trainin g exemption then it can be used for transition training and you can pay for its use. Mike Robertson Das Fed ________________________________ From: Rquinn1@aol.com RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:46 PM PST US From: Carlos Hernandez Subject: Re: RV-List: Training Paul, If it is your plane (owner) and your not charging for the use of the plane just the CFI's instruction and time then there's no problem. I was transitioned into our experimental and just paid our CFI for his time. Dad and I also do this for our BFR's in our experimental. We also did this for a friend that needed flight hours in our type experimental plane for insurance purposes. We let them fly the plane and he paid his time to the CFI. Now he was nice enough to buy lunch but we did not collect any money for the use the plane. Carlos in Arizona Fisher Paul A. wrote: > > So is it OK to use my aircraft ("free" as Mike says below), but still > pay an instructor? In the overall transaction there would be > compensation changing hands, but it would only be for the instructor's > time, not the plane itself. > > > > The operating limitations specifically say "No person may operate this > aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire". > I'd simply like to pay an instructor to check out other people > (specifically my son) in my plane. I don't think that violates the > intent of the operating limitations, but I don't want to violate the > letter of them either! > > > > Paul A. Fisher > > RV-7A N18PF -- 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic > question for another 25 hours! > -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:03 PM PST US From: Reuven Silberman Subject: Re: RV-List: Training Paul, =C2- Carlos is correct. If it is your plane, and it is out of=C2-Phase I,=C2 -you can hire a CFI (please make sure he or she speaks RV) and check out your mom, dad, son, daughter,=C2-wife, girlfriend, anyone as long as no m oney changes hands concerning the "using"=C2-of the aircraft (the checkee can pay for gas).=C2- If any=C2-money changes hands then your airplane is being used for hire and must be approved by the FAA for transition trai ning, otherwise you are in violation of FAR 91.319(a)(2). =C2- Reuven Silberman N7WT=C2- RV7A FAA approved for transition training Pilots2@yahoo.com --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Carlos Hernandez wrote: From: Carlos Hernandez Subject: Re: RV-List: Training Paul, If it is your plane (owner) and your not charging for the use of the plane just the CFI's instruction and time then there's no problem. I was transiti oned into our experimental and just paid our CFI for his time. Dad and I al so do this for our BFR's in our experimental. We also did this for a friend that needed flight hours in our type experimental plane for insurance purp oses. We let them fly the plane and he paid his time to the CFI. Now he was nice enough to buy lunch but we did not collect any money for the use the plane. Carlos in Arizona Fisher Paul A. wrote: So is it OK to use my aircraft (=9Cfree=9D as Mike says below), but still pay an instructor?=C2- In the overall transaction there would be compensation changing hands, but it would only be for the instructor =99s time, not the plane itself. =C2- The operating limitations specifically say =9CNo person may operate t his aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire =9D.=C2- I=99d simply like to pay an instructor to check out oth er people (specifically my son) in my plane.=C2- I don=99t think th at violates the intent of the operating limitations, but I don=99t wa nt to violate the letter of them either! =C2- Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF =93 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic qu estion for another 25 hours! -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:44 PM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: Training You are OK to pay an instructor to give you instruction in your plane. Sam e thing goes for your son. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: FisherPaulA@JohnDeere.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Training So is it OK to use my aircraft (=93free=94 as Mike says below)=2C but still pay an instructor? In the overall transaction there would be compensation changing hands=2C but it would only be for the instructor=92s time=2C not the plane itself. The operating limitations specifically say =93No person may operate this ai rcraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire=94. I=92d simply like to pay an instructor to check out other people (specifically m y son) in my plane. I don=92t think that violates the intent of the operat ing limitations=2C but I don=92t want to violate the letter of them either! Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF ' 15 hours into phase I=2C so this is just an academic questi on for another 25 hours! From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson If it is free to use or it is yours then have at it. If it is on a trainin g exemption then it can be used for transition training and you can pay for its use. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: Rquinn1@aol.com RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:24 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Training According to the letter of the law even buying lunch violates the law. Might be kind of hard to prove that lunch was for the use airplane but you were almost saying that in the post. Jerry Carlos Hernandez wrote: > Paul, > If it is your plane (owner) and your not charging for the use of the > plane just the CFI's instruction and time then there's no problem. I > was transitioned into our experimental and just paid our CFI for his > time. Dad and I also do this for our BFR's in our experimental. We > also did this for a friend that needed flight hours in our type > experimental plane for insurance purposes. We let them fly the plane > and he paid his time to the CFI. Now he was nice enough to buy lunch > but we did not collect any money for the use the plane. > > Carlos in Arizona > > Fisher Paul A. wrote: >> >> So is it OK to use my aircraft (free as Mike says below), but still >> pay an instructor? In the overall transaction there would be >> compensation changing hands, but it would only be for the >> instructors time, not the plane itself. >> >> The operating limitations specifically say No person may operate >> this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or >> hire. Id simply like to pay an instructor to check out other people >> (specifically my son) in my plane. I dont think that violates the >> intent of the operating limitations, but I dont want to violate the >> letter of them either! >> >> Paul A. Fisher >> >> RV-7A N18PF 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic >> question for another 25 hours! >> > > -- > Carlos Hernandez > Structural Engineers Company > 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 > Chandler, AZ 85224 > Phone: 480.968.8600 > Fax: 480.968.8608 > www.sec-engr.com > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. > This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or > organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or > an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and > its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is > prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please > immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email > from your system. > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:45 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? From: thomas sargent Speaking of training in an RV, some one told me recently that there is a guy in Phoenix who is doing transition training using an RV-9. Does any one know if this is true? If not, is there any one anywhere in Arizona doing transition training? I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training in an RV-9 would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:34 PM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? Gee, if the insurance company has any sense they would know that a -9 (taildragger) would work for a -6A model. Oh wait....never mind. > I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training in an RV-9 > would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:08 PM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? there is an Arizona person listed on my RV Transition Training page http://www.meyette.us/training.htm brian _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? Speaking of training in an RV, some one told me recently that there is a guy in Phoenix who is doing transition training using an RV-9. Does any one know if this is true? If not, is there any one anywhere in Arizona doing transition training? I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training in an RV-9 would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. -- Tom Sargent 06:08:00 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:57 PM PST US From: Reuven Silberman Subject: RE: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? There is a 7A in San Diego at KSEE. - Reuven Silberman N7WT Pilots2@yahoo.com --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Brian Meyette wrote: From: Brian Meyette Subject: RE: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? there is an Arizona person listed on my RV Transition Training page http://www.meyette.us/training.htm brian - From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? Speaking of training in an RV, some one told me recently that there is a gu y in Phoenix who is doing transition training using an RV-9.- Does any on e know if this is true?-- If not, is there any one anywhere in Arizona doing transition training? I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training i n an RV-9 would qualify for insurance purposes.- Probably not. -- Tom Sargent href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 3.66/2325 - Release Date: 08/25/09 06:08:00 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? From: thomas sargent Well, my source wasn't clear on whether it was a 9 or a 9A. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Ralph Finch wrote: > > Gee, if the insurance company has any sense they would know that a -9 > (taildragger) > would work for a -6A model. Oh wait....never mind. > > > I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training > in an RV-9 > > would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. > > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:40 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Big Iron Envy From: "Robin Marks" RV-List, In the past I have mentioned that a number of pilots have said how bright & noticeable my Dual Wig Wag HID lights are from the ground when I am on approach during the daylight hours. This is exactly what I wanted from the first day I saw my neighbor's Pilatus swoop into our home field with his flashing HID's a blazing. I think the little boy inside of me said... "me want." Well yesterday on a dusk flight departing the LA basin ATC called traffic "South West 737 you have RV-10 Traffic 10 O'clock, 17 miles 8,500 feet. November 110EE traffic 2:00 O'clock descending out of one-one-thousand feet a Boeing 737." Before I could respond the South West 737 replied Traffic Insight. Moments later the SW pilot told me through the controller "that is some light system he has on his RV-10, it's really easy to pick up" COOL! Getting "at a boy's" from commercial pilots. I consider the Wig-Wag HID's to be an important safety feature on my -10. Seeing is avoiding. The set up is nothing out of the ordinary with the exception of dual 35W HID lights placed in the leading edge. If interested I have a page that shows the install. http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/Lights_LEDHID.htm . One more thing of note. When on that page you will also see some pretty expensive (but nice) LED Position Lights. My next build is an RV-8A and I have found a set of Red & Green LED bulbs for around $8.00 each including wired sockets (eBay). These appear to be an excellent and cost effective solution vs. the printed circuit board LED's I used on my -10. Plus some significant time savings to install as well. I will report results once flying. Not exactly the LED's I purchased but this gives you an idea of the concept: eBay Item# 380151029392 Robin RV-4 Sold RV-6A Sold RV-10 75 Hours RV-8A Flying 2010 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.