---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/27/09: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:41 AM - Flying over water (Ralph E. Capen) 2. 07:54 AM - Re: Van's "homecoming" (David Cudney) 3. 08:47 AM - Re: Flying over water (GLAESER, DENNIS) 4. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Randy Hooper) 5. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Flying over water (mr.gsun@gmail.com) 6. 11:15 AM - Re: Dynon D10A/EDC in and RV-9A - weird behaviour (mike@hotlinesinc.com) 7. 11:18 AM - Koger sun shade on Ebay (Hal Kempthorne) 8. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Greg Young) 9. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Dynon D10A/EDC in and RV-9A - weird behaviour (Dave Saylor) 10. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Ralph E. Capen) 11. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Michael W Stewart) 12. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Mike Robertson) 13. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Flying overwater (GLAESER, DENNIS) 14. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Ralph E. Capen) 15. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Linn Walters) 16. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Kelly McMullen) 17. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Tim Olson) 18. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Greg Young) 19. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Flying over water (Kevin Horton) 20. 07:54 PM - recommended RV brake fluid (Brian Meyette) 21. 08:26 PM - Re: recommended RV brake fluid (Randy Difani) 22. 08:26 PM - Re: recommended RV brake fluid (Linn Walters) 23. 08:48 PM - Re: recommended RV brake fluid (Brian Meyette) 24. 08:48 PM - Re: recommended RV brake fluid (passpat@aol.com) 25. 08:51 PM - Re: recommended RV brake fluid (Kelly McMullen) 26. 09:25 PM - Re: recommended RV brake fluid (Greg Young) 27. 10:35 PM - Re: recommended RV brake fluid (Vanremog@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:50 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RV-List: Flying over water Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - lots of farms, rivers, and places to go. I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my trips across the bay's at least. Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with me - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could climb to altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I would really like to know the right way..... Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. So...what are the rules? And....what is everyone really doing? Thanks, Ralph RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:22 AM PST US From: David Cudney Subject: RV-List: Re: Van's "homecoming" My wife and I will be leaving tomorrow morning for Independence ((7S5) for the annual RV gathering. We plan to leave at 7:00 a.m. and will monitor 122.75. Cheapest fuel seems to be either Colusa (O08) or Lincoln Co ((KLHM), both listed at $3.99 on AvWEB currently. Hope to see some of you there. Dave and Loretta RV 7A (110 hours) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:42 AM PST US From: "GLAESER, DENNIS" Subject: RV-List: Re: Flying over water For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - haven't reviewed the regs lately) I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake Michigan to OSH. Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free to do whatever meets your comfort level. Dennis Glaeser RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ralph E. Capen Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - lots of farms, rivers, and places to go. I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my trips across the bay's at least. Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with me - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could climb to altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I would really like to know the right way..... Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. So...what are the rules? And....what is everyone really doing? Thanks, Ralph RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water From: Randy Hooper You might read FAR 91.509 Randy Hooper On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS wrote: > > For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free > to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) > Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a > raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - > haven't reviewed the regs lately) > > I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake > Michigan to OSH. > Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most > part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC > or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) > I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. > > You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a > boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do > whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free > to do whatever meets your comfort level. > > Dennis Glaeser > RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Ralph E. Capen > Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - > lots of > farms, rivers, and places to go. > > I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and > Delaware > bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. > > I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for > my > trips across the bay's at least. > > Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with > me > - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. > > The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could > climb to > altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I > would > really like to know the right way..... > > Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and > there'll be > some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. > > So...what are the rules? > > And....what is everyone really doing? > > Thanks, > Ralph > RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs > > -- Randy Hooper ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water From: mr.gsun@gmail.com Anyone have any idea of how to ditch a tailwheel RV with a tip up canopy? Ideas? Survival gear could be a moot point if the ditching goes poorly. A discussion came up and it was proposed to dip a wingtip in the water at the last instant to avoid flipping on your back. The term "cartwheel" came to mind. do not archive On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Randy Hooper wrote: > You might read FAR 91.509 > > Randy Hooper > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS wrote: > >> >> For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free >> to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) >> Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a >> raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - >> haven't reviewed the regs lately) >> >> I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake >> Michigan to OSH. >> Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the >> most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with >> ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) >> I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. >> >> You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a >> boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do >> whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free >> to do whatever meets your comfort level. >> >> Dennis Glaeser >> RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: Ralph E. Capen >> Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - >> lots of >> farms, rivers, and places to go. >> >> I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and >> Delaware >> bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. >> >> I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear >> for my >> trips across the bay's at least. >> >> Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM >> with me >> - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. >> >> The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could >> climb to >> altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I >> would >> really like to know the right way..... >> >> Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and >> there'll be >> some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. >> >> So...what are the rules? >> >> And....what is everyone really doing? owse, Chat, FAQ, >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target="_blank">http://ww >> == >> http://forums.mle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Randy Hooper > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:30 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Dynon D10A/EDC in and RV-9A - weird behaviour From: "mike@hotlinesinc.com" Beware of internal pitot leaks with Dynon D10A I installed a Dynon 10A a couple years ago as a back up AI in a warbird. A recent pitot static check uncovered a pitot leak that was pretty severe. The leak was traced and verified as being internal to the Dynon D10A. Disassembly of the unit revealed that the pitot connection to the solid state sensor for airspeed was loose. The static port on the sensor also came loose during disassembly. This unit has under 10 hours of operation. There is no way I would depend on this unit as a primary flight instrument Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259987#259987 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:00 AM PST US From: Hal Kempthorne Subject: RV-List: Koger sun shade on Ebay Item number 260467339246 hal ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water From: "Greg Young" V2h5IGRvbid0IHlvdSBqdXN0IGVubGlnaHRlbiB1cz8NClJlZ2FyZHMsDQpHcmVnDQpTZW50IGZy b20gbXkgQmxhY2tiZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogUmFu ZHkgSG9vcGVyIDxrcmhvb3BlckBnbWFpbC5jb20+DQoNCkRhdGU6IFRodSwgMjcgQXVnIDIwMDkg MTE6MTA6MjggDQpUbzogPHJ2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBSVi1M aXN0OiBSZTogRmx5aW5nIG92ZXIgd2F0ZXINCg0KDQpZb3UgbWlnaHQgcmVhZCBGQVIgOTEuNTA5 DQoNClJhbmR5IEhvb3Blcg0KDQpPbiBUaHUsIEF1ZyAyNywgMjAwOSBhdCAxMDozMSBBTSwgR0xB RVNFUiwgREVOTklTIDxkZW5uaXMuZ2xhZXNlckBocC5jb20+d3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gLS0+IFJWLUxp c3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJHTEFFU0VSLCBERU5OSVMiIDxkZW5uaXMuZ2xhZXNlckBo cC5jb20+DQo+DQo+IEZvciBQYXJ0IDkxIG9wZXJhdGlvbnMgKG5vbi1jb21tZXJjaWFsKSwgdGhl cmUgYXJlIG5vIHJ1bGVzLiAgWW91J3JlIGZyZWUNCj4gdG8gZG8gd2hhdGV2ZXIgJ2Zsb2F0cyB5 b3VyIGJvYXQnIChjb3VsZG4ndCBoZWxwIG15c2VsZiA6LSkNCj4gQ29tbWVyY2lhbCBvcGVyYXRp b25zIGFyZSByZXF1aXJlZCB0byBoYXZlIGxpZmUgdmVzdHMgZm9yIGVhY2ggcGVyc29uLCBhDQo+ IHJhZnQgKGJpZyBlbm91Z2ggZm9yIGV2ZXJ5b25lKSBhbmQgYSBweXJvdGVjaG5pYyBzaWduYWwg ZGV2aWNlIChJSVJDIC0NCj4gaGF2ZW4ndCByZXZpZXdlZCB0aGUgcmVncyBsYXRlbHkpDQo+DQo+ IEkgZmx5IG92ZXIgd2F0ZXIgb24gdHJpcHMgZnJvbSBTRSBNSSB0byBPaGlvIG92ZXIgTGFrZSBF cmllLCBhbmQgb3ZlciBMYWtlDQo+IE1pY2hpZ2FuIHRvIE9TSC4NCj4gV2hlbmV2ZXIgcG9zc2li bGUsIEkgY2hvb3NlIHJvdXRlcyBhbmQgYWx0aXR1ZGVzIHRoYXQga2VlcCBtZSwgZm9yIHRoZSBt b3N0DQo+IHBhcnQsIHdpdGhpbiBnbGlkaW5nIGRpc3RhbmNlIG9mIHNob3JlLCBhbmQgSSdtIGFs d2F5cyBpbiBjb250YWN0IHdpdGggQVRDDQo+IG9yIEZTUyBpbiBzb21lIG1hbm5lciAoSUZSLCBm bGlnaHQgZm9sbG93aW5nLCAuLi4pDQo+IEkgdXN1YWxseSBib3Jyb3cgbGlmZSB2ZXN0cyBmcm9t IGEgYnVkZHkgd2hvIGhhcyBhIHNlYSBwbGFuZS4NCj4NCj4gWW91IGNhbiBnZXQgZGVjZW50IGxp Z2h0IHdlaWdodCBsaWZlIHZlc3RzIGFuZCBzaWduYWxpbmcgZGV2aWNlcyBhdCBhDQo+IGJvYXRp bmcgc3RvcmUuICBJdCdzIGJhc2ljYWxseSBsaWtlIGluc3VyYW5jZSwgYmV0dGVyIHRvIGhhdmUg aXQgYW5kIGRvDQo+IHdoYXRldmVyIHlvdSBjYW4gdG8gbmV2ZXIgbmVlZCBpdC4gIEJ1dCB0aGUg Ym90dG9tIGxpbmUgaXMgdGhhdCB5b3UgYXJlIGZyZWUNCj4gdG8gZG8gd2hhdGV2ZXIgbWVldHMg eW91ciBjb21mb3J0IGxldmVsLg0KPg0KPiBEZW5uaXMgR2xhZXNlcg0KPiBSVi03QSBONzUxREcg QCA1N0QgLSAxNTAgaHJzDQo+DQo+DQo+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogICBSYWxwaCBFLiBDYXBlbg0KPiBMaXZpbmcgYW5kIGZseWluZyBh cm91bmQgdGhlIERlbE1hclZhIHBlbmluc3VsYSBwcm92aWRlcyBncmVhdCBzY2VuZXJ5IC0NCj4g bG90cyBvZg0KPiBmYXJtcywgcml2ZXJzLCBhbmQgcGxhY2VzIHRvIGdvLg0KPg0KPiBJJ20gY29u Y2VybmVkIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBsb3Qgb2Ygd2F0ZXIgaGVyZSAtIHdpdGggdGhlIENoZXNh cGVha2UgYW5kDQo+IERlbGF3YXJlDQo+IGJheXMgbmVhcmJ5Li4uYW5kIGxldCdzIG5vdCBmb3Jn ZXQgdGhlIEF0bGFudGljIE9jZWFuLg0KPg0KPiBJJ20gdGhpbmtpbmcgdGhhdCBJIHNob3VsZCBi ZSBjYXJyeWluZyBzb21lIHNvcnQgb2Ygd2F0ZXIgc3Vydml2YWwgZ2VhciBmb3INCj4gbXkNCj4g dHJpcHMgYWNyb3NzIHRoZSBiYXkncyBhdCBsZWFzdC4NCj4NCj4gRG9lcyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyB3 aGF0IHRoZSBzcGVjaWZpYyBydWxlcyBhcmU/ICBJIGRvbid0IGhhdmUgbXkgRkFSL0FJTSB3aXRo DQo+IG1lDQo+IC0gYW5kIEkgYW0gc3RpbGwgZmx5aW5nIG9mZiBteSBwaGFzZSBJIGhvdXJzLg0K Pg0KPiBUaGUgQ2FwZSBNYXkgQ291bnR5IGFpcnBvcnQgKFdXRCkgaXMgd2l0aGluIG15IDUwbm0g Y2lyY2xlIGFuZCBJIGNvdWxkDQo+IGNsaW1iIHRvDQo+IGFsdGl0dWRlIHRvIGVuc3VyZSBhIHNh ZmUgZ2xpZGUgZGlzdGFuY2UgdG8gZWl0aGVyIHNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIGJheS4uLmJ1dCBJDQo+IHdv dWxkDQo+IHJlYWxseSBsaWtlIHRvIGtub3cgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IHdheS4uLi4uDQo+DQo+IEV2ZW50 dWFsbHksIEknbGwgYmUgaGVhZGluZyBub3J0aCB0byB2aXNpdCBmYW1pbHkgaW4gTmV3IEVuZ2xh bmQgYW5kDQo+IHRoZXJlJ2xsIGJlDQo+IHNvbWUgd2F0ZXIgdG8gY3Jvc3Mgb24gdGhlIHdheSB0 aGVyZSAtIHJlZ2FyZGxlc3Mgb2YgdGhlIGNob3NlbiByb3V0ZS4NCj4NCj4gU28uLi53aGF0IGFy ZSB0aGUgcnVsZXM/DQo+DQo+IEFuZC4uLi53aGF0IGlzIGV2ZXJ5b25lIHJlYWxseSBkb2luZz8N Cj4NCj4gVGhhbmtzLA0KPiBSYWxwaA0KPiBSVjZBIE44MjJBUiBAIE4wNiAyNC45IGhycw0KPg0K Pg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KDQoNCi0tIA0KUmFuZHkgSG9vcGVyDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon D10A/EDC in and RV-9A - weird behaviour From: Dave Saylor We've seen that kind of thing, too. The latest was that our (backup) D-10A just went blank on a training approach. Nice. I agree, not ready for primetime. We have one flying and two in panels under construction. All have been back to the factory at least once. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:12 AM, mike@hotlinesinc.com wrote: > mike@hotlinesinc.com> > > Beware of internal pitot leaks with Dynon D10A > > I installed a Dynon 10A a couple years ago as a back up AI in a warbird. > A recent pitot static check uncovered a pitot leak that was pretty severe. > The leak was traced and verified as being internal to the Dynon D10A. > Disassembly of the unit revealed that the pitot connection to the solid > state sensor for airspeed was loose. The static port on the sensor also came > loose during disassembly. > This unit has under 10 hours of operation. > There is no way I would depend on this unit as a primary flight instrument > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259987#259987 > > -- Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:02 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water Here's what I got from another list response: "I think the way it works for part 91 aircraft such as the RV's is that there are no specific rules. There are regulations regarding survival equipment (91.509 -[ http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fa6bbc1247720f831fa68e0c062499c6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.6.7.5&idno=14 ]) and communication equipment (91.511 - [ http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fa6bbc1247720f831fa68e0c062499c6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.6.7.6&idno=14 ]), but these regulations fall under Subpart F and apply only to large turbine-powered multi-engine aircraft and aircraft that are in a fractional ownership program." Thanks to Dan Baier..... -----Original Message----- >From: Greg Young >Sent: Aug 27, 2009 12:45 PM >To: RV List >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > >Why don't you just enlighten us? >Regards, >Greg > >-----Original Message----- >From: Randy Hooper > >Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:10:28 >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > > >You might read FAR 91.509 > >Randy Hooper > >On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS wrote: > >> >> For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free >> to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) >> Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a >> raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - >> haven't reviewed the regs lately) >> >> I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake >> Michigan to OSH. >> Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most >> part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC >> or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) >> I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. >> >> You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a >> boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do >> whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free >> to do whatever meets your comfort level. >> >> Dennis Glaeser >> RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: Ralph E. Capen >> Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - >> lots of >> farms, rivers, and places to go. >> >> I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and >> Delaware >> bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. >> >> I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for >> my >> trips across the bay's at least. >> >> Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with >> me >> - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. >> >> The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could >> climb to >> altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I >> would >> really like to know the right way..... >> >> Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and >> there'll be >> some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. >> >> So...what are the rules? >> >> And....what is everyone really doing? >> >> Thanks, >> Ralph >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >Randy Hooper > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water From: Michael W Stewart ZG8gbm90IGFyY2hpdmUNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCiBTZWMuIDkxLjUwOSAgICAgICAg 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M0Q9M0Q9M0QNCg0KwqbCt+KAun7igLDDrcKyLMOeDQo ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:23 PM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Flying over water While this reg is a good guideline for all to use it is only regulatory to large and turbine powered airplanes=2C and fractional ownership program air craft. Meaning it does not apply to RV's. Mike Robertson Das Fed Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water From: mike.stewart@us.ibm.com do not archive Sec. 91.509 Survival equipment for overwater operations. (a) No person may take off an airplane for a flight over water more than 50 nautical miles from the nearest shore unless that airplane is equipped wit h a life preserver or an approved flotation means for each occupant of the airplane. [(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section=2C no person may t ake off an airplane for flight over water more than 30 minutes flying time or 100 nautical miles from the nearest shore=2C whichever is less=2C unless it has on board the following survival equipment:] (1) A life preserver=2C equipped with an approved survivor locator light=2C for each occupant of the airplane. (2) Enough liferafts (each equipped with an approved survival locator light ) of a rated capacity and buoyancy to accommodate the occupants of the airp lane. (3) At least one pyrotechnic signaling device for each liferaft. (4) One self-buoyant=2C water-resistant=2C portable emergency radio signali ng device that is capable of transmission on the appropriate emergency freq uency or frequencies and not dependent upon the airplane power supply. (5) A lifeline stored in accordance with Sec. 25.1411(g) of this chapter. [(c) A fractional ownership program manager under subpart K of this part ma y apply for a deviation from paragraphs (b)(2) through (5) of this section for a particular over water operation or the Administrator may amend the ma nagement specifications to require the carriage of all or any specific item s of the equipment listed in paragraphs (b)(2) through (5) of this section. (d) The required life rafts=2C life preservers=2C and signaling devices mus t be installed in conspicuously marked locations and easily accessible in t he event of a ditching without appreciable time for preparatory procedures. (e) A survival kit=2C appropriately equipped for the route to be flown=2C m ust be attached to each required life raft. (f) As used in this section=2C the term shore means that area of the land a djacent to the water that is above the high water mark and excludes land ar eas that are intermittently under water.] "Greg Young" ---08/27/2009 02:40:57 PM---Why don't you just enlighten us? R egards=2C From: "Greg Young" To: "RV List" Date: 08/27/2009 02:40 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water Sent by: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com Why don't you just enlighten us? From: Randy Hooper Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water You might read FAR 91.509 - Randy Hooper On Thu=2C Aug 27=2C 2009 at 10:31 AM=2C GLAESER=2C DENNI= S wrote: --> RV-List message posted by= : "GLAESER=2C DENNIS" <= dennis.glaeser@ hp.com> For Part 91 operations (non-commercial)=2C there are no rules. -You'= =3Bre free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help mysel= f :-) Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each per= son =2C a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC = - haven't reviewed the regs lately) I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie=2C and over L = ake Michigan to OSH. Whenever possible=2C I choose routes and altitudes th= at keep me=2C for the most part=2C within gliding distance of shore=2C and I'= m always in contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR=2C flight following=2C = ...) I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. You ca= n get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a b oating sto= re. -It's basically like insurance=2C better to have it a nd do whatever= you can to never need it. -But the bottom line is tha t you are free to d= o whatever meets your comfort level. Dennis Glaeser RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs -----------------= ------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------= ----- From: - Ralph E. Capen Living and flying around the DelMarVa = peninsula provides great scenery - lots of farms=2C rivers=2C and places to go. I'm concerned that there is a l= ot of water here - with the Chesapeake a nd Delaware bays nearby...and le= t's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. I'm thinking that I shoul= d be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my trips across the bay's at least. Does anyone know what the speci= fic rules are? -I don't have my FAR/ AIM with me - and I am still f= lying off my phase I hours. The Cape May County airport (WWD) is wit= hin my 50nm circle and I could climb to altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I = would really like to know the right way..... Eventually=2C I'll= be heading north to visit family in New England and t here'll be some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. <= br>So...what are the rules? And....what is everyone really doing? owse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C =3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target=3D"_blank">http: //ww= =3D=3D=3D http://forums.m= le=2C List Admin. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -- Randy Hooper =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =B7=9B~=89=ED=B2=2C=DE _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 R0lGODlhEAAQAKECAMzMzAAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAIALAAAAAAQABAAAAIXlI+py+0PopwxUbpu ZRfKZ2zgSJbmSRYAIf4fT3B0aW1pemVkIGJ5IFVsZWFkIFNtYXJ0U2F2ZXIhAAA7 R0lGODlhEAABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAAQAAEAAAIEjI8ZBQA7 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:35 PM PST US From: "GLAESER, DENNIS" Subject: RV-List: Re: Re: Flying overwater I knew I should have checked the regs before saying 'there are no rules' :-( But,in my defense, those rules only apply to large and turbine powered multi-engine aircraft when flying more than 50 NM min from shore. They are a good idea for any size aircraft further than gliding distance from terra-firma. Dennis ------------------------ From: Randy Hooper You might read FAR 91.509 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:56 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Flying over water Thanks Mike..... Meaning that I'm kinda back to the original no-real-rules statement. I'm thinking a set of inflatable suspender-type with a light and whistle attached (like I use while sailing) is a good start - I can wear that and still strap in properly. -----Original Message----- >From: Mike Robertson >Sent: Aug 27, 2009 3:10 PM >To: rv list >Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > > >While this reg is a good guideline for all to use it is only regulatory to large and turbine powered airplanes, and fractional ownership program aircraft. Meaning it does not apply to RV's. > > > >Mike Robertson > >Das Fed > > > >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water >To: rv-list@matronics.com >From: mike.stewart@us.ibm.com >Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:42:23 -0400 > > >do not archive > > >Sec. 91.509 > >Survival equipment for overwater operations. > >(a) No person may take off an airplane for a flight over water more than 50 nautical miles from the nearest shore unless that airplane is equipped with a life preserver or an approved flotation means for each occupant of the airplane. >[(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may take off an airplane for flight over water more than 30 minutes flying time or 100 nautical miles from the nearest shore, whichever is less, unless it has on board the following survival equipment:] >(1) A life preserver, equipped with an approved survivor locator light, for each occupant of the airplane. >(2) Enough liferafts (each equipped with an approved survival locator light) of a rated capacity and buoyancy to accommodate the occupants of the airplane. >(3) At least one pyrotechnic signaling device for each liferaft. >(4) One self-buoyant, water-resistant, portable emergency radio signaling device that is capable of transmission on the appropriate emergency frequency or frequencies and not dependent upon the airplane power supply. >(5) A lifeline stored in accordance with Sec. 25.1411(g) of this chapter. >[(c) A fractional ownership program manager under subpart K of this part may apply for a deviation from paragraphs (b)(2) through (5) of this section for a particular over water operation or the Administrator may amend the management specifications to require the carriage of all or any specific items of the equipment listed in paragraphs (b)(2) through (5) of this section. >(d) The required life rafts, life preservers, and signaling devices must be installed in conspicuously marked locations and easily accessible in the event of a ditching without appreciable time for preparatory procedures. >(e) A survival kit, appropriately equipped for the route to be flown, must be attached to each required life raft. >(f) As used in this section, the term shore means that area of the land adjacent to the water that is above the high water mark and excludes land areas that are intermittently under water.] > > >"Greg Young" ---08/27/2009 02:40:57 PM---Why don't you just enlighten us? Regards, > > >From: > >"Greg Young" > > >To: > >"RV List" > > >Date: > >08/27/2009 02:40 PM > > >Subject: > >Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > > >Sent by: > >owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > >Why don't you just enlighten us? > > >From: Randy Hooper >Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:10:28 -0500 >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water >You might read FAR 91.509 >- >Randy Hooper > >On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNI= S wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by= : "GLAESER, DENNIS" <= dennis.glaeser@hp.com> > >For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. -You'= ;re free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help mysel= f :-) >Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each per= son, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC= - haven't reviewed the regs lately) > >I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over L= ake Michigan to OSH. >Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes th= at keep me, for the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'= m always in contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, = ...) >I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. > >You ca= n get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a boating sto= re. -It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do whatever= you can to never need it. -But the bottom line is that you are free to d= o whatever meets your comfort level. > >Dennis Glaeser >RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs > >-----------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >From: - Ralph E. Capen >Living and flying around the DelMarVa = peninsula provides great scenery - lots of >farms, rivers, and places to go. > >I'm concerned that there is a l= ot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware >bays nearby...and le= t's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. > >I'm thinking that I shoul= d be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my >trips across the bay's at least. > >Does anyone know what the speci= fic rules are? -I don't have my FAR/AIM with me >- and I am still f= lying off my phase I hours. > >The Cape May County airport (WWD) is wit= hin my 50nm circle and I could climb to >altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I = would >really like to know the right way..... > >Eventually, I'll= be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be >some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. ><= br>So...what are the rules? > >And....what is everyone really doing? owse, Chat, FAQ, >="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target="_blank">http://ww= == >http://forums.m= le, List Admin. >==== > > >-- >Randy Hooper >=============================================D=============================================3=============================================3D============================================= >~, > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. >http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:53 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water The cartwheel worked for a grumman off the coast of Australia. Although not a TW, the nose wheel makes a flip almost guaranteed. Video on Youtube, I think. Linn mr.gsun@gmail.com wrote: > Anyone have any idea of how to ditch a tailwheel RV with a tip up > canopy? Ideas? Survival gear could be a moot point if the ditching > goes poorly. A discussion came up and it was proposed to dip a wingtip > in the water at the last instant to avoid flipping on your back. The > term "cartwheel" came to mind. > > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:57 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water You might read the preamble to subpart F that 509 is in: "91.501 (a) This subpart prescribes operating rules, in addition to those prescribed in other subparts of this part, governing the operation of large airplanes of U.S. registry, turbojet-powered multiengine civil airplanes of U.S. registry, and fractional ownership program aircraft of U.S. registry that are operating under subpart K of this part in operations not involving common carriage." AFAIK, no RV has multiengine turbojet power, and none come close to the gross wt limits of a large aircraft. Randy Hooper wrote: > You might read FAR 91.509 > > Randy Hooper > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS > wrote: > > > > > For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're > free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) > Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each > person, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal > device (IIRC - haven't reviewed the regs lately) > > I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and > over Lake Michigan to OSH. > Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for > the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in > contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) > I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. > > You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at > a boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it > and do whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is > that you are free to do whatever meets your comfort level. > > Dennis Glaeser > RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Ralph E. Capen > Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great > scenery - lots of > farms, rivers, and places to go. > > I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the > Chesapeake and Delaware > bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. > > I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival > gear for my > trips across the bay's at least. > > Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my > FAR/AIM with me > - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. > > The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I > could climb to > altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the > bay...but I would > really like to know the right way..... > > Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and > there'll be > some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. > > So...what are the rules? > > And....what is everyone really doing? > owse, Chat, FAQ, > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" > target="_blank">http://ww== > http://forums.mle, List Admin. > ==== > > > > > > > > > > -- > Randy Hooper > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:52 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water Yep, inflatable life vests would work great, and most come with a whistle and streamer at least, and I think mine has a mirror too. For what it's worth, a life raft would be excellent, but if you're one of those who's not inclined to spend the money on a $1000 life raft and bring it along, there is another option. A queen sized air bed could be blown up by mouth if you were really way out there, while you're floating using your life vest. Then that would suffice as better than nothing. I say that kind of tongue-in-cheek because yeah, it's cheesy and there are plenty of good things that make auto-inflate rafts much nicer....but if I were in the middle of the ocean with just a life vest, I'd be wishing I had at least threw in the old air bed. ;) Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > Thanks Mike..... > Meaning that I'm kinda back to the original no-real-rules statement. > I'm thinking a set of inflatable suspender-type with a light and whistle attached (like I use while sailing) is a good start - I can wear that and still strap in properly. > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Mike Robertson >> Sent: Aug 27, 2009 3:10 PM >> To: rv list >> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Flying over water >> >> >> While this reg is a good guideline for all to use it is only regulatory to large and turbine powered airplanes, and fractional ownership program aircraft. Meaning it does not apply to RV's. >> >> >> >> Mike Robertson >> >> Das Fed >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> From: mike.stewart@us.ibm.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:42:23 -0400 >> >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> Sec. 91.509 >> >> Survival equipment for overwater operations. >> >> (a) No person may take off an airplane for a flight over water more than 50 nautical miles from the nearest shore unless that airplane is equipped with a life preserver or an approved flotation means for each occupant of the airplane. >> [(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may take off an airplane for flight over water more than 30 minutes flying time or 100 nautical miles from the nearest shore, whichever is less, unless it has on board the following survival equipment:] >> (1) A life preserver, equipped with an approved survivor locator light, for each occupant of the airplane. >> (2) Enough liferafts (each equipped with an approved survival locator light) of a rated capacity and buoyancy to accommodate the occupants of the airplane. >> (3) At least one pyrotechnic signaling device for each liferaft. >> (4) One self-buoyant, water-resistant, portable emergency radio signaling device that is capable of transmission on the appropriate emergency frequency or frequencies and not dependent upon the airplane power supply. >> (5) A lifeline stored in accordance with Sec. 25.1411(g) of this chapter. >> [(c) A fractional ownership program manager under subpart K of this part may apply for a deviation from paragraphs (b)(2) through (5) of this section for a particular over water operation or the Administrator may amend the management specifications to require the carriage of all or any specific items of the equipment listed in paragraphs (b)(2) through (5) of this section. >> (d) The required life rafts, life preservers, and signaling devices must be installed in conspicuously marked locations and easily accessible in the event of a ditching without appreciable time for preparatory procedures. >> (e) A survival kit, appropriately equipped for the route to be flown, must be attached to each required life raft. >> (f) As used in this section, the term shore means that area of the land adjacent to the water that is above the high water mark and excludes land areas that are intermittently under water.] >> >> >> "Greg Young" ---08/27/2009 02:40:57 PM---Why don't you just enlighten us? Regards, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> >> "Greg Young" >> >> >> To: >> >> "RV List" >> >> >> Date: >> >> 08/27/2009 02:40 PM >> >> >> Subject: >> >> Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water >> >> >> Sent by: >> >> owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> Why don't you just enlighten us? >> >> >> From: Randy Hooper >> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:10:28 -0500 >> To: >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water >> You might read FAR 91.509 >> - >> Randy Hooper >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNI= S wrote: >> >> --> RV-List message posted by= : "GLAESER, DENNIS" <= dennis.glaeser@hp.com> >> >> For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. -You'= ;re free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help mysel= f :-) >> Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each per= son, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC= - haven't reviewed the regs lately) >> >> I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over L= ake Michigan to OSH. >> Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes th= at keep me, for the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'= m always in contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, = ...) >> I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. >> >> You ca= n get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a boating sto= re. -It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do whatever= you can to never need it. -But the bottom line is that you are free to d= o whatever meets your comfort level. >> >> Dennis Glaeser >> RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs >> >> -----------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >> From: - Ralph E. Capen >> Living and flying around the DelMarVa = peninsula provides great scenery - lots of >> farms, rivers, and places to go. >> >> I'm concerned that there is a l= ot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware >> bays nearby...and le= t's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. >> >> I'm thinking that I shoul= d be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my >> trips across the bay's at least. >> >> Does anyone know what the speci= fic rules are? -I don't have my FAR/AIM with me >> - and I am still f= lying off my phase I hours. >> >> The Cape May County airport (WWD) is wit= hin my 50nm circle and I could climb to >> altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I = would >> really like to know the right way..... >> >> Eventually, I'll= be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be >> some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. >> <= br>So...what are the rules? >> >> And....what is everyone really doing? owse, Chat, FAQ, >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target="_blank">http://ww= == >> http://forums.m= le, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Randy Hooper >> =============================================D=============================================3=============================================3D============================================= >> ~, >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. >> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:56 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Flying over water I have been considering one of those suspender types for when I cut the corner over Apalachicola Bay going to SnF. They are a Class III device. Hoping they would be good if I ever wanted to fly to the Bahamas I asked AOPA what was required and they said any Coast Guard approved device was OK. I'm not sure what reg covers international over water but everyone acts like there is one. Darn near anything other than a water ski belt is a Class III or better so take your pick based on physical and mental comfort. Regards, Greg Young > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Ralph E. Capen > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:33 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > > > > Thanks Mike..... > Meaning that I'm kinda back to the original no-real-rules statement. > I'm thinking a set of inflatable suspender-type with a light > and whistle attached (like I use while sailing) is a good > start - I can wear that and still strap in properly. > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:44 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water You can't just take ever FAR at face value. You have to find the applicability statement that applies to the regulation in question. The applicability for FAR 91 Subpart F (91.501 to 91.535) is found in 91.501: "This subpart prescribes operating rules, in addition to those prescribed in other subparts of this part, governing the operation of large airplanes of U.S. registry, turbojet-powered multiengine civil airplanes of U.S. registry ...". 91.509 is not applicable to RVs. So - no rules. If the water is warm enough so you could survive immersion for a few hours, I would simply wear inflatable life jackets. If the water was cold enough that you might not survive for a few hours, I would either wear an immersion suit, or I would remain within gliding distance of shore. Transport Canada publication TP13822 "Survival in Cold Waters : Staying Alive" is a good resource (10 MB pdf): The data in Figure 2 in Chapter 1 of TP 13822 suggests that if the water is 65 deg F or warmer, that someone wearing a life jacket will survive for many, many hours. The survival time starts to fall off significantly if the water temperature is below 60 deg F. This document presents data from many studies. The data from laboratory studies, using cold water tanks, suggests longer survival times that is found in studies using real bodies of water. If there are no waves (as in a laboratory study), and the survivor keeps still, rather than trying to swim, he might survive 3 hours if the water is 50 deg F. But, if there are waves, the survivor must keep the limbs moving to keep the waves at his back. Moving the limbs causes more heat to be lost, and eventually the muscles become non-responsive. Then he may drown as he cannot prevent the body from turning to face the waves. Bottom line - if the water is colder than 60 deg F, a life jacket alone probably isn't enough to guarantee survival, unless there is enough water traffic that you would be rescued quickly. -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:10, Randy Hooper wrote: > > You might read FAR 91.509 > > Randy Hooper > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS wrote: >> >> >> For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) >> Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - haven't reviewed the regs lately) >> >> I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake Michigan to OSH. >> Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) >> I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. >> >> You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free to do whatever meets your comfort level. >> >> Dennis Glaeser >> RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: Ralph E. Capen >> Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - lots of >> farms, rivers, and places to go. >> >> I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware >> bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. >> >> I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my >> trips across the bay's at least. >> >> Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with me >> - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. >> >> The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could climb to >> altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I would >> really like to know the right way..... >> >> Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be >> some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. >> >> So...what are the rules? >> >> And....what is everyone really doing? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:48 PM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:55 PM PST US From: "Randy Difani" Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid Mil H 5606 normally is used for brake fluid and you can find it here http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php. Recommend that you go to the Cleveland website to be sure. Also, it's probably in your Cleveland Brake instructions. Do not use automotive, it'll melt the seals... Good luck and fly safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: RV7A@yahoogroups.com ; rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:52 PM Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:56 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid The most common is 5606 .... and there is a higher temp fluid out there too. Linn Brian Meyette wrote: > my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but > instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the > manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone > know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's > Cleveland disk brakes? > thanks, > brian > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:52 PM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid Would you, or anyone, happen to know the Cleveland web site? I googled "cleveland brakes" before sending the original message, but all I got was sellers, not the mfg site. Or their phone number woudl work, too. thanks, brian _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Difani Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:08 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid Mil H 5606 normally is used for brake fluid and you can find it here http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php. Recommend that you go to the Cleveland website to be sure. Also, it's probably in your Cleveland Brake instructions. Do not use automotive, it'll melt the seals... Good luck and fly safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:52 PM Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 08:11:00 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid From: passpat@aol.com use 5606 brake and hdy fluid -----Original Message----- From: Brian Meyette Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:52 pm Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer".? But they don't say what this fluid is.?? Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:16 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid From the RV-10 list archives: "A couple of RV-x main landing gear caliper fires that consumed the glass pant caused a few to change from H-5606 a few years back. The flame propagation was right below each main AVGAS fuel tank. Fiberglass fires are a perverted thing to watch. So take a test sample and learn by experiment not experience how the cured resin and glass strands come to life until gone. Mine was watching a '69 Vette being prepped for custom paint. VANS mantra is stay conservative with the brakes and build your kit bone stock. Mil H-83282 provides another level of combustion protection. I have found that H-5606 tends to coagulate with age. Its low flash point is routinely accepted by most builders without consideration of alternatives." Brian Meyette wrote: > my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but > instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the > manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone > know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's > Cleveland disk brakes? > thanks, > brian > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:52 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid The company is actually Parker-Hannifin. Try http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.14ecfc66e7a40c1af8500f1994 20d1ca/?vgnextoid=43cb5242ade5c110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default &Keyword=AIRCRAFT+WHEELS+%26+BRAKES&Wtky=AIRCRAFT+WHEELS+%26+BRAKES If that URL is broken go to www.parker.com and browse to Products/Aircraft Wheels and Brakes. All kinds of info including manuals. Regards, Greg Young _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:42 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid Would you, or anyone, happen to know the Cleveland web site? I googled "cleveland brakes" before sending the original message, but all I got was sellers, not the mfg site. Or their phone number woudl work, too. thanks, brian _____ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:04 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid IMO, don't bother with the crappy old 80 yr old MIL-H-5606 fluid. Get Viton O-rings installed in your calipers and go with the updated (50 yr old) higher performance fluid MIL-PRF-83282 developed after the military got tired of putting out brake fires. Check the archives and get with the program. A brake fire will ruin your day. -N1GV In a message dated 8/27/2009 7:56:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bmeyette@gmail.com writes: my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.