Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:52 AM - 0GA1 - Mustang Field (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/DOA)
2. 06:52 AM - Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Glenn Bell)
3. 06:53 AM - Loops clarification (charlie heathco)
4. 06:53 AM - rules (grenwis@aol.com)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Linn Walters)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (glennbell@cablelynx.com)
7. 08:14 AM - Re: Loop problemLoop problem (Valovich, Paul)
8. 08:22 AM - Re: Loops clarification (Jerry Springer)
9. 08:39 AM - Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions (Jerry Grimmonpre)
10. 08:49 AM - Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions (Vanremog@aol.com)
11. 08:56 AM - Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/DOA)
12. 09:08 AM - Re: Loops clarification (Jerry Springer)
13. 09:09 AM - Re: Loops clarification (Jerry Springer)
14. 09:20 AM - Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions (Brian Meyette)
15. 10:55 AM - Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions (Bret Smith)
16. 02:14 PM - Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Kevin Horton)
17. 05:25 PM - Re: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage (Mike Robertson)
18. 05:46 PM - Re: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage (RV6ator@AOL.COM)
19. 08:37 PM - Re: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage (Jerry Springer)
Message 1
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Subject: | 0GA1 - Mustang Field |
Does anybody have any experience with Mustang Field near Athens, GA?
Field conditions, obstructions, open to visitors.?
Neal
Message 2
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Subject: | Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
My first post but maybe somewhat relevant.we are building an 8A and have
finished most of the subassemblys and are waiting on the lycon engine and
the dynon nextgen.when someone comes by the hanger and wants to know what we
are building we point to a photo of the really good looking 8A that we were
told was at the bottom of the pacific ocean.we are duplicating the paint
scheme except for painting the rudder solid red.we are using concept in gm
white and gm victory red..the black accents will be vinyl.we will finish it
with a three blade cato painted to match the fuse.we have been to osh the
last two years and of all the paint schemes , we liked this the best.
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Mike, we appreciate having you here on the list! Even if your first RV is
somewhere on the bottom of the ocean near Hawaii ;-) Don't be put off by
the ill-manners of some. You are a welcome member of the community, and
your restraint is admirable.
-Bill
RV-6A that's never been looped.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mike Robertson <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also note I
did not say whether I or anyone else should do it, just whether it was
legal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics without
training, even in an RV6ator, but if I tried to take them to task I would
have a very rough time.
Mike Robertson
Federal Asshole please
_____
========================
Message 3
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Subject: | Loops clarification |
Man, I Hope this doesnt get anyones dander up :-) First, thanks for the
notes on best entry speed and G pull, It is clear I didnt pull tight
enuff. Gonna try it again next flight. I do have a g meter, my 6a has
been cert for acro, and I was at 4000 msl. Re loops in 140, Cherokees
are rugged planes. My coml Multi instructor had just returned from Nam
as an L-19 driver, the man was fearless. taught me several things your
not suposed to do. I wont mention them tho. One thing I was having
chicken out problems trying to do three turn spins, which were required
at that time. He went up with me, got the plane in what must have been a
spiral. I looked out at wing and skins were flutering, looked at
airspeed and it was way over red line. I casually mentioned, yea right,
PULL OUT DON!!! Yes Cherokkes are rugged and they do a nice loop. (we
nevr tiried rolls)
Message 4
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|
Matt,
Thank you for reposting the rules.? Now where is your e-mail saying that rv6ator@aol
has been banned from the list?? I don't come to this list to read that kind
of vulgarity and a personal attack.? If that isn't a clear violation of the
rules, you'll never see one.? This list often goes on wild goose chases, but
it is a benefit to hear other opinions in an open manner.? If the mean-spirited,?vicious
attack launched by rv6ator@aol is allowed to go unpunished, I?will
wish you well and unsubscribe.
Rick?
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
Hmmm. I thought the Red-Tailed Devils had Merlins or Allisons in them!!!
Linn
Do not archive.
Glenn Bell wrote:
> My first post but maybe somewhat relevantwe are building an 8A and have
> finished most of the subassemblys and are waiting on the lycon engine
> and the dynon nextgenwhen someone comes by the hanger and wants to know
> what we are building we point to a photo of the really good looking 8A
> that we were told was at the bottom of the pacific oceanwe are
> duplicating the paint scheme except for painting the rudder solid redwe
> are using concept in gm white and gm victory red..the black accents will
> be vinylwe will finish it with a three blade cato painted to match the
> fusewe have been to osh the last two years and of all the paint schemes
> , we liked this the best
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:08 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
>
>
>
> Mike, we appreciate having you here on the list! Even if your first RV
> is somewhere on the bottom of the ocean near Hawaii ;-) Don't be put
> off by the ill-manners of some. You are a welcome member of the
> community, and your restraint is admirable.
>
>
>
> -Bill
>
> RV-6A that's never been looped.
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mike Robertson <mrobert569@hotmail.com
> <mailto:mrobert569@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also
> note I did not say whether I or anyone else should do it, just whether
> it was legal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics
> without training, even in an RV6ator, but if I tried to take them to
> task I would have a very rough time.
>
> Mike Robertson
> Federal Asshole please
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *=========================*
>
> * *
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
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> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
Just the slow ones
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Hmmm. I thought the Red-Tailed Devils had Merlins or Allisons in them!!!
Linn
Do not archive.
Glenn Bell wrote:
> My first post but maybe somewhat relevantwe are building an 8A and have
> finished most of the subassemblys and are waiting on the lycon engine
> and the dynon nextgenwhen someone comes by the hanger and wants to know
> what we are building we point to a photo of the really good looking 8A
> that we were told was at the bottom of the pacific oceanwe are
> duplicating the paint scheme except for painting the rudder solid redwe
> are using concept in gm white and gm victory red..the black accents will
> be vinylwe will finish it with a three blade cato painted to match the
> fusewe have been to osh the last two years and of all the paint schemes
> , we liked this the best
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:08 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
>
>
>
> Mike, we appreciate having you here on the list! Even if your first RV
> is somewhere on the bottom of the ocean near Hawaii ;-) Don't be put
> off by the ill-manners of some. You are a welcome member of the
> community, and your restraint is admirable.
>
>
>
> -Bill
>
> RV-6A that's never been looped.
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mike Robertson <mrobert569@hotmail.com
> <mailto:mrobert569@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also
> note I did not say whether I or anyone else should do it, just whether
> it was legal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics
> without training, even in an RV6ator, but if I tried to take them to
> task I would have a very rough time.
>
> Mike Robertson
> Federal Asshole please
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *=========================*
>
> * *
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Loop problemLoop problem |
All certified aircraft have an allowable flight envelope that always permit
s flight at greater or less than +1g up to a specified limit. As far as the
aircraft is concerned, attitude within that envelope doesn't matter. Howev
er, the pilot has to have the intelligence, skill and situational awareness
to remain within the envelope throughout any maneuver. FAA airspace restri
ctions do matter - from a regulatory, not aerodynamic perspective. One can
certainly start any acrobatic maneuver in a Cherokee - the kicker is proper
ly assessing the probability of remaining in and recovery within said envel
ope.
Anyone remember the videos of Bob Hoover (I think it was him) doing acro an
d inverted fight with a glass of water on the glare shield - and not spilli
ng a drop?
Acro and unusual attitudes are not inherently dangerous if approached with
proper planning and understanding of both flight envelope limitations and
the "what ifs". Airlines seem to agree by introducing upset training - admi
ttedly only after a series of preventable delta sierra accidents involving
improper control inputs in response to unexpected attitude excursions.
Paul Valovich
Booger
RV-8A N192NM Reserved (again)
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Loops clarification |
Spins were required for flight instructor cert. but not for PP cert.
Jerry
Jerry Springer
Sent from my IPhone
On Sep 2, 2009, at 6:52 AM, "charlie heathco" <cheathco@cox.net> wrote:
> Man, I Hope this doesnt get anyones dander up :-) First, thanks for
> the notes on best entry speed and G pull, It is clear I didnt pull
> tight enuff. Gonna try it again next flight. I do have a g meter, my
> 6a has been cert for acro, and I was at 4000 msl. Re loops in 140,
> Cherokees are rugged planes. My coml Multi instructor had just
> returned from Nam as an L-19 driver, the man was fearless. taught me
> several things your not suposed to do. I wont mention them tho. One
> thing I was having chicken out problems trying to do three turn
> spins, which were required at that time. He went up with me, got the
> plane in what must have been a spiral. I looked out at wing and
> skins were flutering, looked at airspeed and it was way over red
> line. I casually mentioned, yea right, PULL OUT DON!!! Yes Cherokkes
> are rugged and they do a nice loop. (we nevr tiried rolls)
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions |
Dear Listers,
I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube.
Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4
size lines?
Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller
therefore harder to fabricate?
What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is
one better than the other?
Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines
fabricated?
Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ...
Jerry
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions |
I had my Earl's lines fabricated at a speed shop and I prefer the smaller
size line. There is very little flow in braking systems and the smaller
size will give a firmer feel because of the reduction in internal surface
area.
-N1GV
In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:40:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jerry@mc.net writes:
I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube.
Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the
-4 size lines?
Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are
smaller therefore harder to fabricate?
What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is
one better than the other?
Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines
fabricated?
Message 11
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Subject: | Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions |
Jerry -
The good folks at Bonaco (www.bonacoinc.com) provide exceptional service at
low cost.
neal
==============
Subject: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
Dear Listers,
I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube.
Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4
size lines?
Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller
therefore harder to fabricate?
What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is one
better than the other?
Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines fabricated?
Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ...
Jerry
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Loops clarification |
Jerry Springer
Sent from my IPhone
On Sep 2, 2009, at 6:52 AM, "charlie heathco" <cheathco@cox.net> wrote:
> Man, I Hope this doesnt get anyones dander up :-) First, thanks for
> the notes on best entry speed and G pull, It is clear I didnt pull
> tight enuff. Gonna try it again next flight. I do have a g meter, my
> 6a has been cert for acro, and I was at 4000 msl. Re loops in 140,
> Cherokees are rugged planes. My coml Multi instructor had just
> returned from Nam as an L-19 driver, the man was fearless. taught me
> several things your not suposed to do. I wont mention them tho. One
> thing I was having chicken out problems trying to do three turn
> spins, which were required at that time. He went up with me, got the
> plane in what must have been a spiral. I looked out at wing and
> skins were flutering, looked at airspeed and it was way over red
> line. I casually mentioned, yea right, PULL OUT DON!!! Yes Cherokkes
> are rugged and they do a nice loop. (we nevr tiried rolls)
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Loops clarification |
Ah missed the part about coml.
Sorry
Do not archive
Jerry
Jerry Springer
Sent from my IPhone
On Sep 2, 2009, at 6:52 AM, "charlie heathco" <cheathco@cox.net> wrote:
> Man, I Hope this doesnt get anyones dander up :-) First, thanks for
> the notes on best entry speed and G pull, It is clear I didnt pull
> tight enuff. Gonna try it again next flight. I do have a g meter, my
> 6a has been cert for acro, and I was at 4000 msl. Re loops in 140,
> Cherokees are rugged planes. My coml Multi instructor had just
> returned from Nam as an L-19 driver, the man was fearless. taught me
> several things your not suposed to do. I wont mention them tho. One
> thing I was having chicken out problems trying to do three turn
> spins, which were required at that time. He went up with me, got the
> plane in what must have been a spiral. I looked out at wing and
> skins were flutering, looked at airspeed and it was way over red
> line. I casually mentioned, yea right, PULL OUT DON!!! Yes Cherokkes
> are rugged and they do a nice loop. (we nevr tiried rolls)
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions |
on pressure side, smaller is better - less fluid to move & smaller size
transfers the pressure more efficently
on supply side, larger is better - less resistance
in motorcycle roadracing, we usually use -2 lines for brakes
not sure if you can get them custom-made, though
if i was going to get s/s braided brake lines, I'd first look at a
motorcycle supplier like Street & Competition
http://www.streetandcomp.com/
or here
http://tinyurl.com/lyctk8
only issue might be if they can't do the 37 degree fitting we need
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Grimmonpre
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
Dear Listers,
I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube.
Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4
size lines?
Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller
therefore harder to fabricate?
What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is
one better than the other?
Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines
fabricated?
Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ...
Jerry
05:50:00
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions |
Call Brett at www.Bonacoinc.com. He has the sets for every make of RV.
All braided Teflon lines with colored liners. Reasonable prices and
excellent customer service.
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Meyette
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
on pressure side, smaller is better - less fluid to move & smaller
size transfers the pressure more efficently
on supply side, larger is better - less resistance
in motorcycle roadracing, we usually use -2 lines for brakes
not sure if you can get them custom-made, though
if i was going to get s/s braided brake lines, I'd first look at a
motorcycle supplier like Street & Competition
http://www.streetandcomp.com/
or here
http://tinyurl.com/lyctk8
only issue might be if they can't do the 37 degree fitting we need
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:39 AM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
Dear Listers,
I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube.
Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and
the -4 size lines?
Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are
smaller therefore harder to fabricate?
What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why
is one better than the other?
Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines
fabricated?
Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ...
Jerry
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
270.13.74/2339 - Release Date: 09/02/09 05:50:00
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
We have a wide selection of approved flight manuals (AFMs) in the
reference library at work. I looked at AFMs for PA-28-140s from 1964
(the first year of production), 1971, 1973 and 1976. The all had the
same limitations and placards relevant to this question. The AFM
limitations section requires the many placards to be located in the
cockpit, in full view of the pilot. Among those placards we find:
"No acrobatic maneuvers (including spins) are approved for normal
category operations." and
"Utility category only
Acrobatic maneuvers are limited to the following:
Spins
Steep turns
Lazy eights
Chandelles"
Note: This is not a completely verbatim transcription of the placards,
as the AFM shows them as being in all-caps, the AFM lists entry speeds
for each of the approved aerobatic maneuvers, and spins are prohibited
for aircraft fitted with air conditioning or ventilation blowers.
I conclude that loops are prohibited in the Cherokee 140, using the
FAR references provided by Mike Robertson.
Kevin Horton
On 1-Sep-09, at 12:19 , Mike Robertson wrote:
> Thanks for the kind words. Although I have to admit that I have
> been in error a few times, I just can't remember them right now.
>
> On the flip side, let me explain a bit further for everyone. What
> the gentleman was initially hanging his hat on is FAR 91.9(a). In
> that reg it states that you will NOT exceed any limitations in the
> approved flight manual, markings, and placards. So while the regs
> themselves do not state that aerobatics are illegal, they give an
> indirect answer. So check those manuals and placards to see what
> you can do.
>
> An interesting side note is that 91.303 states that an aerobatic
> manuver is ANY intential manuver involving an abrupt change in the
> aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration,
> not necessary for NORMAL flight. Therefore, a lazy eight, some
> stalls, a chandelle, a steep turn, etc, are considered to be
> aerobatic manuvers under this definition.
>
> Again, please for safety sake and for your families, I recommend
> getting training before doing anything you have not done before,
> but, legally, I, or any other inspector, may not be able to do
> anything about it if you do.
>
> Mike Robertson
>
> From: stein@steinair.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:26:04 -0500
>
> Bill, you've been around this list for many years and you know
> better than to behave like that. There is no call for that at all.
>
> Mike is both a well respected aviator as well as a respected FAA
> employee.
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
> do not archive this drivel.
>
> _________________________________________
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or
> other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this
> information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
> is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the
> sender and delete the material from any computer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> ]On Behalf Of RV6ator@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:11 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
>
> HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS
> SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS,
> LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT
> HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF
> ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS
> ONBOARD>
> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569@hotmail.com
> writes:
--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
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Subject: | Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage |
No comment needed at this point. You pretty much said it all.
But just because it may be legal does not make it smart. I highly encourag
e getting training in ANY manuver of any type of aircraft that you have not
done before. I=2C too=2C have lost friends doing stupid things and don't
want to lose any more. But please remember=2C as in this discussion=2C the
re can be a difference between what is leagl and what is smart and safe.
Mike Robertson
> Date: Tue=2C 1 Sep 2009 20:59:21 -0400
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> From: larywil@comcast.net
> Subject: RV-List: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage
>
>
>
> Boy=2C I was ready to quit Matt's list because of the onset of boredom.
> Thanks for saving me RV6ator Bill.
>
> So=2C I think DICKWEED and ASSHOLE is actually part of the recipe for
> the sausage that we sometimes get at the local air show. I'm sure
> Bill had too many of them at 'Kosh=2C and he accidently regurgitated
> them in his post.
>
> OK=2C back to the subject. I do NOT believe that the FAA defines an
> aerobatic aircraft. They do define aerobatics ( or aerobatic
> maneuvers ). They do this because there are restrictions on when and
> where you may perform aerobatics.
>
> As Mike pointed out=2C the FAA does make it clear that you may not
> exceed the limitations stated in the manual=2C makings and placard. So=2C
> if an aircraft is approved for=2C say +3 and -1.5 G's=2C and the manual
=2C
> markings=2C and placards do not specifically prohibit a loop=2C then I
> suppose you may legally perform loops the aircraft ( if you are in an
> FAA permitted area).
>
> That being said=2C you would still be considered a moron if you tried
> to loop the aforementioned aircraft. You might get away with it a few
> times=2C but.....
>
> Mike=2C would you care to comment.
>
>
>
>
> Louis I Willig
> 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> Penn Valley=2C PA 19072
> 610 668-4964
> RV-4=2C N180PF
> 190HP IO-360=2C C/S prop
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage |
hey guys, aircraft are CERTIFIED in a variety of CATEGORIES, normal,
utility, aerobatic, experimental, experimental exhibition, and restricted. Most
Cessna/Piper/Beech and other production aircraft are certified normal
category and can be flown in the utility category at reduced gross weights, to
allow for higher G-loading. An Aerobatic category aircraft has to meet
certain requirments, including a quick egress system. For example Cessna built
a
152 Aerobat for several years, it included larger C-172 struts, a beefier
tail, and quick release doors. get the idea.
bill mahoney
In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:26:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mrobert569@hotmail.com writes:
No comment needed at this point. You pretty much said it all.
But just because it may be legal does not make it smart. I highly
encourage getting training in ANY maneuver of any type of aircraft that you have
not done before. I, too, have lost friends doing stupid things and don't
want to lose any more. But please remember, as in this discussion, there can
be a difference between what is legal and what is smart and safe.
Mike Robertson
> Date: Tues, 1 Sep 2009 20:59:21 -0400
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> From: larywil@comcast.net
> Subject: RV-List: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage
>
>
>
> Boy, I was ready to quit Matt's list because of the onset of boredom.
> Thanks for saving me RV6ator Bill.
>
> So, I think DICKWEED and ASSHOLE is actually part of the recipe for
> the sausage that we sometimes get at the local air show. I'm sure
> Bill had too many of them at 'Kosh, and he accidentally regurgitated
> them in his post.
>
> OK, back to the subject. I do NOT believe that the FAA defines an
> aerobatic aircraft. They do define aerobatics ( or aerobatic
> maneuvers ). They do this because there are restrictions on when and
> where you may perform aerobatics.
>
> As Mike pointed out, the FAA does make it clear that you may not
> exceed the limitations stated in the manual, makings and placard. So,
> if an aircraft is approved for, say +3 and -1.5 G's, and the manual,
> markings, and placards do not specifically prohibit a loop, then I
> suppose you may legally perform loops the aircraft ( if you are in an
> FAA permitted area).
>
> That being said, you would still be considered a moron if you tried
> to loop the aforementioned aircraft. You might get away with it a few
> times, but.....
>
> Mike, would you care to comment.
>
>
>
>
> Louis I Willig
> 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> Penn Valley, PA 19072
> 610 668-4964
> RV-4, N180PF
> 190HP IO-36======================
>
>
>
____________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. _Click
here._ (http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage |
The fact that Mr Mahoney is still posting here makes me think that the
list has finally "jumped the shark"
RV6ator@aol.com wrote:
> hey guys, aircraft are CERTIFIED in a variety of CATEGORIES, normal,
> utility, aerobatic, experimental, experimental exhibition, and
> restricted. Most Cessna/Piper/Beech and other production aircraft are
> certified normal category and can be flown in the utility category at
> reduced gross weights, to allow for higher G-loading. An Aerobatic
> category aircraft has to meet certain requirments, including a quick
> egress system. For example Cessna built a 152 Aerobat for several
> years, it included larger C-172 struts, a beefier tail, and quick
> release doors. get the idea.
>
> bill mahoney
>
> In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:26:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> mrobert569@hotmail.com writes:
>
> No comment needed at this point. You pretty much said it all.
>
> But just because it may be legal does not make it smart. I highly
> encourage getting training in ANY maneuver of any type of aircraft
> that you have not done before. I, too, have lost friends doing
> stupid things and don't want to lose any more. But please
> remember, as in this discussion, there can be a difference between
> what is legal and what is smart and safe.
>
> Mike Robertson
>
> > Date: Tues, 1 Sep 2009 20:59:21 -0400
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > From: larywil@comcast.net
> > Subject: RV-List: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage
> >
> >
> >
> > Boy, I was ready to quit Matt's list because of the onset of
> boredom.
> > Thanks for saving me RV6ator Bill.
> >
> > So, I think DICKWEED and ASSHOLE is actually part of the recipe for
> > the sausage that we sometimes get at the local air show. I'm sure
> > Bill had too many of them at 'Kosh, and he accidentally
> regurgitated
> > them in his post.
> >
> > OK, back to the subject. I do NOT believe that the FAA defines an
> > aerobatic aircraft. They do define aerobatics ( or aerobatic
> > maneuvers ). They do this because there are restrictions on when
> and
> > where you may perform aerobatics.
> >
> > As Mike pointed out, the FAA does make it clear that you may not
> > exceed the limitations stated in the manual, makings and
> placard. So,
> > if an aircraft is approved for, say +3 and -1.5 G's, and the
> manual,
> > markings, and placards do not specifically prohibit a loop, then I
> > suppose you may legally perform loops the aircraft ( if you are
> in an
> > FAA permitted area).
> >
> > That being said, you would still be considered a moron if you tried
> > to loop the aforementioned aircraft. You might get away with it
> a few
> > times, but.....
> >
> > Mike, would you care to comment.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Louis I Willig
> > 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> > Penn Valley, PA 19072
> > 610 668-4964
> > RV-4, N180PF
> > 190HP IO-36======================
> >
> >
> >
>
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