---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/06/09: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:25 AM - Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Doug Gray) 2. 04:42 AM - It was a frickin joke!! (Dana Overall) 3. 05:15 AM - Re: Another gone was Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Ed Anderson) 4. 05:53 AM - list losses (charlie heathco) 5. 06:45 AM - Silver Bullet steering link (Chris Brooks) 6. 06:45 AM - Re: Another gone was Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Larry Mac Donald) 7. 06:57 AM - Re: Solder, etc. Was: Loop problem (Linn Walters) 8. 07:52 AM - Re: It was a frickin joke!! (Charlie England) 9. 08:36 AM - Re: It was a frickin joke!! (John D.) 10. 08:51 AM - Re: It was a frickin joke!! (Ralph Finch) 11. 09:50 AM - Re: Another gone was Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Matt Dralle) 12. 10:11 AM - Re: Another gone was Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Colm O'Reilly) 13. 02:49 PM - Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Matt Redmond) 14. 03:24 PM - If it makes anybody feel better.... (Scott) 15. 06:53 PM - At long last, First Flight. (Tracy Crook) 16. 07:13 PM - transition training (scott bilinski) 17. 07:43 PM - Re: At long last, First Flight. (Larry Bowen) 18. 07:43 PM - Vetterman Exhaust Hangars (c172.58@juno.com) 19. 08:20 PM - Re: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars (Bobby Hester) 20. 08:54 PM - Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (Charlie England) 21. 09:17 PM - Re: Another gone was Loop problem --- the rest of the story. (John) 22. 11:52 PM - Hand propping a fuel injected 320 - possible? (Doug Gray) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. From: Doug Gray I certainly hope not! Take stock Jerry - don't drop off the 'list for the sake of some half witted comments and language from someone so disrespectful as to post without at least understanding the culture of the group. There have been many who have come and gone in the time I have been monitoring the rv-list (also around '97) mostly because they have not appreciated the real value of what is on offer. Let them go their own ways. I have flirted with other discussion groups - many have been hijacked by the low life fringe and died. I do hope the stalwarts will remain - I intend to. Best regards to all, Doug Gray Sydney, Australia RV-6 wheel fairings.... On Sat, 2009-09-05 at 14:47 -0700, Jerry Springer wrote: > > Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in > private email but thought better of it so as not to offend > any woman or kids that might read this list. > A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and > RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages > and no > tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that > people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public > what they feel must be said in private. > > Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer > than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group > of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never > mind. > See ya all later. > > Bye > > Jerry Springer > first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 > Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:29 AM PST US From: Dana Overall Subject: RV-List: It was a frickin joke!! Come on now gang=2C it was frickin joke....spelling errors...strong republi can talking point in signature line "community organizer" of all places.... .go to school with your child on Tuesday....... I thought it was was funny as hell....course that is with me so loaded up o n pain killers I'm a menace to society at this moment:-) Lighten up=2C take a breath and laugh at yourself every once and a while... .or like I am doing....take a chill pill for goodness sake. Dana Overall Richmond=2C KY i39 do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:02 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: RE: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Gee time flies when you're having fun. Ok Oct 1997 vice 1992. 1992 was when I started building and I flew in 1998 so sure seemed like I was on the list for most of the building time asking questions - but, the records apparently indicate otherwise. Thanks Larry Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:14 PM Subject: Re: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Ed, Looks like since Oct, 1997: http://bit.ly/2WarDq And I've been on since July of the same year: http://bit.ly/1lRacl Ah, the memories... Time flies! -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Sorry to see you go, Jerry. I've valued your viewpoint and input (even when I didn't necessarily agree on occasional points) - But, having been on the list since 1992 or so, I agree that many of the gentlemen who knew how to civilly disagree have since departed the list. Now we have one less. Good fortunate and fly safe. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:47 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in private email but thought better of it so as not to offend any woman or kids that might read this list. A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages and no tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public what they feel must be said in private. Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never mind. See ya all later. Bye Jerry Springer first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ========== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:02 AM PST US From: "charlie heathco" Subject: RV-List: list losses Who would have thought aslking for advice on doing a loop would lead to this? I used to be on the cherokee list and that guy who rips off the flying comuity with his power flow exaust was often the target of some flack, from me as well. no one dropped of because of it and should be the same here. I would hate to think I didnt have this to turn to when I need advice. I have sure gotten a lot of help. I usually use only the digest, with is easy to skim thru and pick out what I need, but I can tolorate some childish diatribe now and then, much easier when Im relaxing at the computer with a jug of morphine :-) Charlie Heathco ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:05 AM PST US From: Chris Brooks Subject: RV-List: Silver Bullet steering link Does anyone know if Dave Czachorowski aka Rivethead/Full Throttle Concepts is still in business? I ordered the steering link just over 2 months ago th ru his website. He hasn't responded to any of my Email=2C or voicemail inqu iries. I'm having trouble getting the steering link or a refund. Chris Brooks RV6 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. From: Larry Mac Donald Jerry, I wish you would stay on the list. I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. Your posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he attacked "Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next time. Stick around. You never know what will be said next. Larry Mac Donald Mgr. D-91 On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 20:16:33 -0400 "Ed Anderson" writes: > > > Sorry to see you go, Jerry. I've valued your viewpoint and input > (even when > I didn't necessarily agree on occasional points) - But, having been > on the > list since 1992 or so, I agree that many of the gentlemen who knew > how to > civilly disagree have since departed the list. Now we have one > less. > > Good fortunate and fly safe. > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry > Springer > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:47 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. > > > Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in > > private email but thought better of it so as not to offend > any woman or kids that might read this list. > A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph > and > RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text > messages > and no > tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad > that > people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in > public > what they feel must be said in private. > > Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer > > than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group > of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well > never > mind. > See ya all later. > > ye > > Jerry Springer > first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 > Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ Health Insurance Deals Get free online quotes on self employed health insurance - Save 30%! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=5j-MI1bPP2HBqR-nf0nRTAAAJ1DOX6m7NtFYSFKPhB8gxgzbAAQAAAAFAAAAAIuZmj4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGMpAAAAAA= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:48 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Solder, etc. Was: Loop problem Hey Mike! I'm on the other end .... I'm pretty good at the spelling thingy. I have lots of friends that can't spell ..... and for me it gives me a chuckle. Some of them are a whole lot smarter than I am .... they just can't spell. They do a fine job of getting their point across though. So, you can't spell. So what??? You got to go fly yesterday .... and I didn't. That means you had a much better day than I did and I'm jealous. Linn do not archive. Mike Divan wrote: > Wow who knew my bad spelling would be so entertaining :) > > On the flying side I had a great flight in my RV today. Someone needed a > lift from Fallbrook (L18) to Camerrio (KCMA) and without a doubt I > spelled it wrong. So I took off from KCCB for a nice flight to L18 > picked him up and headed over to the coast. A real nice and SMOOTH > flight at 2500 all the way up the coast to just north of Long Beach > where we headed inland to go the class Brovo on the Mini Rout (Probabily > spelled that wrong also) and on up to KCMA. A BEAUTIFUL flight and all > the So Cal Controllers were great. After a ok landing at KCMA I hade a > wonderful tri tip sammy then back in the air for the trip back to KCCB. > I skerted the southern edge of the TFR for the "Station" fire and > boy-o-boy did it get close to some of the houses in my former first in > area WOW. A nice landing at KCCB stoped to talk to some of the RV dudes > and finished up finding a buyer for my ole turn and bank - how cool it that! > > All in all a wonderful day of flying. > > I LOVE MY RV6! and I aint going to use spell check ;) > > Mike Divan > N64GH - RV6 (flying) > http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ > FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! > Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast Guard that > guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:04 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: It was a frickin joke!! Dana Overall wrote: > Come on now gang, it was frickin joke....spelling errors...strong > republican talking point in signature line "community organizer" of > all places.....go to school with your child on Tuesday....... > > I thought it was was funny as hell....course that is with me so loaded > up on pain killers I'm a menace to society at this moment:-) > > Lighten up, take a breath and laugh at yourself every once and a > while....or like I am doing....take a chill pill for goodness sake. > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > do not archive It was so hilarious to me that I read it to my wife. She agreed, & neither of us are doing pain killers. To me, the success of lists like this (and any other discussion) depends on the participants trying not to make it personal and *never* take anything personally. Charlie ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:37 AM PST US From: "John D." Subject: Re: RV-List: It was a frickin joke!! It seems to me this list needs a topic of discussion that is more closely related to the construction of aircraft. Politics and aviation law simply do not fill that description. Semantics, spelling, and grammar don't either. Communication is the key word here, and about aircraft. It appears everyone has solved the nose wheel vibration problem so many have encountered. How about whether or not to screw on or glue on the canopy? How and why do you balance wheel pants? Also, the many problems that are encountered by builders and will never ask because of the atmosphere found on this list? Many of the solutions for those problems would make your own aircraft safer or just more enjoyable to fly. Many slightly off topic discussions make the list more enjoyable but this on going CNN versus FOX News debate simply is getting everyone, nowhere. Let's talk about why your nose wheel or tail wheel vibrates, why your tires ware out too soon because of wheel alignment. Why your boarding step cracks, and on and on. Do not archive John D. > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:54 AM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: RV-List: It was a frickin joke!! > To me, the success of lists like this (and any other discussion) depends > on the participants trying not to make it personal and *never* take > anything personally. > Charlie Amen, and amen. Now, can we get back to aeroplanes? Please? Ralph Finch Davis, California RV-9A QB-SA ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:32 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Yeah, hey Jerry, you're gonna hurt my feelings if you leave the List! You're one of the few Listers from nearly the beginning. I would consider it a personal favor if you stuck around and continued to provide us with your sage advise: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_sage_advice_mean I want you to stay too... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle At 06:32 AM 9/6/2009 Sunday, you wrote: > >Jerry, > I wish you would stay on the list. >I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very >consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. Your >posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like >RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually >ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he attacked >"Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next time. >Stick around. You never know what will be said next. > Larry Mac Donald > Mgr. D-91 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:52 AM PST US From: "Colm O'Reilly" Subject: Re: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. As a relative newcomer, I too would really appreciate it if you could stay Jerry. On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Yeah, hey Jerry, you're gonna hurt my feelings if you leave the > List! You're one of the few Listers from nearly the beginning. I > would consider it a personal favor if you stuck around and continued > to provide us with your sage advise: > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_sage_advice_mean > > I want you to stay too... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > > > At 06:32 AM 9/6/2009 Sunday, you wrote: >> >> Jerry, >> I wish you would stay on the list. >> I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very >> consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. >> Your >> posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like >> RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually >> ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he >> attacked >> "Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next >> time. >> Stick around. You never know what will be said next. >> Larry Mac Donald >> Mgr. D-91 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. From: Matt Redmond Please take no offense, boys, because I'm as up for a political argument/discussion as anyone, being the proud right-wing wackjob that I am... but... I think Doug Reeves has the right idea when it comes to his board, and that is: can we please leave the political discussions somewhere else? Seriously, I might think you're a complete communist pinko idiot, but that doesn't mean I can't learn something RV-related from you - or vice-versa (unlikely) - and I'd hate to see otherwise friendly relationships crapped up because of this sh!t. ...or maybe I'm being a pollyanna (but at least I've got my AR-15(s)). Matt ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:43 PM PST US From: Scott Subject: RV-List: If it makes anybody feel better.... I flew for 1.7 hours today and that makes 7.2 since LAST Sunday. The RV isn't done yet, but the Corben isn't jealous! ;) We've had FABULOUS weather up here in Wisconsin for at least the last 10 days and a few more expected. I can't remember EVER having this many supreme days in a row!!! Makes it hard to build ;) -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:22 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. From: Tracy Crook Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:53 PM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: RV-List: transition training Fried of mine needs transition training in town, please contact me. Scott Bilinski RV-8a cell 858-395-5094 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. From: Larry Bowen Congrats Tracy! -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: > Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but > flight test it. > > For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 > rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about > 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car > it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the > Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. > > Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling > system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. > Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I > had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no > problems, which is always a surprise. > > High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no > worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature > because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 > degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. > First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection > fairings. > > Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same > fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the > throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels > more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's > physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the > same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates > off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 > with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended > both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than > on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually > the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off > ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. > > Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching > the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway > (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is > climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants > takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of > today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or > complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for > backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 > GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due > to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the > primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I > finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & > Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 > MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing > sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the > display either. Glad I did all that practice. > > Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off > with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps > nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps > will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at > about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been > well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently > flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). > > The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim > out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is > gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels > just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the > roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were > extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a > wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I > throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is > significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect > than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B > ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an > 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - > 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All > the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around > and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. > > The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data > gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging > EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an > approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess > glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being > confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI > and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. > > All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the > airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. > > Tracy Crook > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:47 PM PST US From: "c172.58@juno.com" Subject: RV-List: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars Does any one have some photos of how the Vetterman exhaust hangars fit o n a RV-7 IO-360 standard 4-pipe installation? The instructions seem to indicate that you can either attach the hangars to the rear of the sump or to the engine mount. It sounds like you're supposed to keep the clam ps on the exhaust as far aft as possible. If you do that, it doesn't ap per that the hangar rods are long enough if you want to hook them to the sump? What have othesr done here? Thanks for any help. RV-7 963P FWF ____________________________________________________________ Online Fashon Degrees Start earning an online fashion degree from the Art Institutes http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=lT9EA4kmgEZAh7VFdsCwXwAA Jz3OX6m7NtFYSFKPhB8gxgzbAAQAAAAFAAAAAARWTj4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFRE3AAAAAA= ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:01 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars Do not attach them to the engine mount. They need to be attached to the engine, the exhaust has to move with the engine, I don't have pictures available but I'm sure someone does. ---- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY Check out the latest on my website at: http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/2009AugDecFlying.htm c172.58@juno.com wrote: > > Does any one have some photos of how the Vetterman exhaust hangars fit > on a RV-7 IO-360 standard 4-pipe installation? The instructions seem > to indicate that you can either attach the hangars to the rear of the > sump or to the engine mount. It sounds like you're supposed to keep > the clamps on the exhaust as far aft as possible. If you do that, it > doesn't apper that the hangar rods are long enough if you want to hook > them to the sump? What have othesr done here? > > Thanks for any help. > RV-7 963P FWF > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Online Fashon Degrees > Start earning an online fashion degree from the Art Institutes > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:09 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Matt Redmond wrote: > Please take no offense, boys, because I'm as up for a political > argument/discussion as anyone, being the proud right-wing wackjob that > I am... but... > > I think Doug Reeves has the right idea when it comes to his board, and > that is: can we please leave the political discussions somewhere > else? Seriously, I might think you're a complete communist pinko > idiot, but that doesn't mean I can't learn something RV-related from > you - or vice-versa (unlikely) - and I'd hate to see otherwise > friendly relationships crapped up because of this sh!t. ...or maybe > I'm being a pollyanna (but at least I've got my AR-15(s)). > > Matt Having cyber-lived in both worlds (Matt's & Doug's), I strongly prefer Matt's. Doug's VAF limits discussions to RV's *only* when the non-RV (read that 'political') posts disagree with the so-called moderators' opinions. That forum is highly censored, and with very obvious political bias. I've personally pointed out the biased censorship in direct emails to Doug on numerous occasions. The 1st time, he responded & said that if there were non-RV comments being allowed, he was unaware of them & would personally correct them, and to please report any in the future. Repeated followup emails to Doug reporting new occurrences have resulted in zero responses. The biased censorship continues. You can often see a biased post that leans one way (allowed) followed by a contrary response. Within hours (or minutes), the contrary post disappears. The original will remain. Only Doug and his censors know how many posts bearing contrary opinions never even make it to the public forum. If we were talking about government, it would be downright Orwellian. In my not so humble opinion, suppression of alternate political viewpoints is a very ugly thing, & contrary to the spirit at the heart of this country's greatness. I'd like to believe that we can not only learn about RV's from someone with a different political viewpoint, but that we can learn about alternative political views, as well. Charlie ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:27 PM PST US From: "John" Subject: RE: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Jerry, Please don't leave. I too have been on the list since 1996. I visited Jerry in 1998 and was privileged to have a ride and get to fly his plane. You won't find a nicer person. There will always be some jerk on this list bad mouthing another. Just the way the world is. Most of us ignore these folks. I've always enjoyed Jerry's comments and keen insight into our problems. Please stay with us Jerry John Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colm O'Reilly Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. As a relative newcomer, I too would really appreciate it if you could stay Jerry. On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Yeah, hey Jerry, you're gonna hurt my feelings if you leave the > List! You're one of the few Listers from nearly the beginning. I > would consider it a personal favor if you stuck around and continued > to provide us with your sage advise: > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_sage_advice_mean > > I want you to stay too... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > > > At 06:32 AM 9/6/2009 Sunday, you wrote: >> >> Jerry, >> I wish you would stay on the list. >> I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very >> consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. >> Your >> posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like >> RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually >> ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he >> attacked >> "Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next >> time. >> Stick around. You never know what will be said next. >> Larry Mac Donald >> Mgr. D-91 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:37 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Hand propping a fuel injected 320 - possible? From: Doug Gray Folks, I am considering converting my O-320 to an IO-320 with the Precision system and had a thought about hand starting - perhaps it is not possible to swing the prop for a start like one can with a carby. I expect the most likely reason to swing the prop is a flat battery - in which case priming would not be possible so my gut feeling is that it would be next to impossible to make an engine start under these circumstances. Any advice? We have many very isolated airfields in this country and being stranded can be a major risk. Doug Gray Sydney, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.