---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/11/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:46 AM - drilling out cherry max rivet (thomas sargent) 2. 08:23 AM - Re: drilling out cherry max rivet (Ralph E. Capen) 3. 08:45 AM - Re: drilling out cherry max rivet (RICHARD MILLER) 4. 02:53 PM - I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit (rv7a) 5. 03:23 PM - I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit (James H Nelson) 6. 03:23 PM - Re: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit (Denis Walsh) 7. 03:44 PM - Re: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit (Charlie England) 8. 03:44 PM - Re: drilling out cherry max rivet (peter laurence) 9. 03:58 PM - Re: drilling out cherry max rivet (thomas sargent) 10. 04:24 PM - Re: drilling out cherry max rivet (peter laurence) 11. 05:14 PM - Re: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit (Charles Ennis) 12. 06:29 PM - Re: At long last, First Flight. (halbenjamin@optonline.net) 13. 08:10 PM - Re: drilling out cherry max rivet (halbenjamin@optonline.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:14 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet From: thomas sargent I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and then hit the shaft? Any suggestions would be appreciated. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:44 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet Tom, The bugger with these things is that the center shaft is of a harder material than the remainder of the rivet. Depending on where the shaft broke when it was being pulled, you may not need to drive it out. In one case, I used a broken drill bit (with the broken end squared off) as a punch to drive out the mandrel (shaft). In another case, the mandrel broke off deeper inside and I was able to use progressively larger bits to drill out the head - start small so you're taking off minimal material with each successive drilling and the rivet has less of a tendency to spin. YMMV, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: thomas sargent >Sent: Sep 11, 2009 9:39 AM >To: rv-list >Subject: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet > >I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first >driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 >are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. >What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? >Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and >then hit the shaft? > >Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >-- >Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:57 AM PST US From: RICHARD MILLER Subject: Re: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet a properly set cherry has a locking ring that is holding the the stem, cherries can be a pain to drill, for a button head i have always found it easier to sand the tops flat with a die grinder before i have to drill them. else make sure that you center punch them well before you start drilling. and use a short 3/32 punch the standard lenght punch is not strong enough and they bend/break. cut one down to about 3/8 of an inch. rick --- On Fri, 9/11/09, thomas sargent wrote: > From: thomas sargent > Subject: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet > To: "rv-list" > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 6:39 AM > I have to drill out a couple cherry max > rivets. In the past I have first driven out the central > shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 are > being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right > way. > > What's the best thing to use to drive out the > shaft?Should I try to drill it out a bit first > with a small diameter drill and then hit the > shaft? > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > > -- > Tom Sargent > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:59 PM PST US From: rv7a Subject: RV-List: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit I came across an rv6a kit for sale. The kit is about 1000 miles away from me. Before I spend the time going to check it out for purchase, I'd like to know if it could be a complete kit. This link points to a page that has an inventory list and several pictures on the crates: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/rv_photos/ The latest shipping info on Van's website indicates that there may have been more crates. Based on what you see, could it be a complete kit? Or has the finishing kit crate gone away? Thanks, Joe rv7a plans Zodiac 601XL, 602 hours + climbing N633Z @ BFI do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:56 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit From: James H Nelson Nope! It will be a three crate kit as the canoopy and stuff will be a crate by itself. There are some guys who will move it if it is in a crate and its reasonable. Check the web sites. Jim ____________________________________________________________ Click now and enjoy a fantastic vacation in the wine country. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTHhwiffR04YRRjGBVo1CQPfUWzNMGtftOS6xDRgKbcwHyZlnhwVRe/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:57 PM PST US From: Denis Walsh Subject: Re: RV-List: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit No. You are probably right. The finish kit was huge, and included the engine mount, canopy and other bulky items. There is at least one crate missing. My dim recollection from long ago was that one of the kits had two crates. So the total would be five crates. Very imprecise memory. About that time (1995) they started shipping tail kits in a carboard box instead of a wood crate. On Sep 11, 2009, at 3:50 , rv7a wrote: > > > I came across an rv6a kit for sale. > The kit is about 1000 miles away from me. > Before I spend the time going to check it out > for purchase, I'd like to know if it could be > a complete kit. > > This link points to a page that has an inventory list > and several pictures on the crates: > http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/rv_photos/ > > The latest shipping info on Van's website > indicates that there may have been more crates. > > Based on what you see, could it be a complete kit? > Or has the finishing kit crate gone away? > > Thanks, Joe > rv7a plans > Zodiac 601XL, 602 hours + climbing > N633Z @ BFI > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:41 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit rv7a wrote: > > > I came across an rv6a kit for sale. > The kit is about 1000 miles away from me. > Before I spend the time going to check it out > for purchase, I'd like to know if it could be > a complete kit. > > This link points to a page that has an inventory list > and several pictures on the crates: > http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/rv_photos/ > > The latest shipping info on Van's website > indicates that there may have been more crates. > > Based on what you see, could it be a complete kit? > Or has the finishing kit crate gone away? > > Thanks, Joe > rv7a plans > Zodiac 601XL, 602 hours + climbing > N633Z @ BFI > do not archive My -7 shipped: tail in cardboard box, wing in large box ~40"/1'/10' & 15'/1'/1', fuselage in large crate, finish kit in large crate. Don't know if the finish kit could be crammed into the fuselage kit's box, but I doubt it. Charlie ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet From: peter laurence This is the way I do it: Drill into the locking ring. Dislodge it with a drift or similar tool. Knock the pin out. Drill out the head of the rivet like you would do with a solid rivet. Pop off the head and punch the remaining rivet through with a drift. Peter On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:39 AM, thomas sargent wrote: > I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first > driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 > are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. > What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? > Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and > then hit the shaft? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > -- > Tom Sargent > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet From: thomas sargent Peter: Not sure what you mean there. Which end is the "locking ring" on? Do I drill on the factory head end or the shop head end? On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:33 PM, peter laurence wrote: > This is the way I do it: > Drill into the locking ring. Dislodge it with a drift or similar tool. > Knock the pin out. Drill out the head of the rivet like you would do with a > solid rivet. Pop off the head and punch the remaining rivet through with a > drift. > > Peter > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:39 AM, thomas sargent wrote: > >> I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first >> driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 >> are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. >> What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? >> Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and >> then hit the shaft? >> >> Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> >> -- >> Tom Sargent >> >> * >> >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet From: peter laurence Check this website. http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html Scroll down to" installing and removing Cherrymax rivets." This should clear it up. Tight Turns Peter On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:56 PM, thomas sargent wrote: > Peter: > Not sure what you mean there. Which end is the "locking ring" on? Do I > drill on the factory head end or the shop head end? > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:33 PM, peter laurence wrote: > >> This is the way I do it: >> Drill into the locking ring. Dislodge it with a drift or similar tool. >> Knock the pin out. Drill out the head of the rivet like you would do with a >> solid rivet. Pop off the head and punch the remaining rivet through with a >> drift. >> >> Peter >> >> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:39 AM, thomas sargent wrote: >> >>> I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first >>> driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 >>> are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. >>> What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? >>> Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and >>> then hit the shaft? >>> >>> Any suggestions would be appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> Tom Sargent >>> >>> * >>> >>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> * >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Tom Sargent > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:57 PM PST US From: Charles Ennis Subject: Re: RV-List: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit As I recall, my RV-6A came like this. 1 relatively small crate with the tail in it..2 large crates containing the fuselage and the wings (before pre punched kits about 10 to 12 feet long 4 feet wide and around 12/15 inches thick) Much later the finishing kit...Large crate, cowling may have been in crate with canopy...Wheel pants and assorted fiberglass fairings probably in a crate of their own along with the gear and engine mount. My spars weren't pre-fabricated so I can't comment on the crating for them. Bear in mind I received the original crates in 1994 and the finishing kits in 1998 so my memory is a bit hazy. Irrigardless the boxes shown don't appear to be large enough or numerous enough to hold an RV-6A. Charlie Ennis 6A flying since 04 ----- Original Message ----- From: rv7a Subject: RV-List: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit > > > I came across an rv6a kit for sale. > The kit is about 1000 miles away from me. > Before I spend the time going to check it out > for purchase, I'd like to know if it could be > a complete kit. > > This link points to a page that has an inventory list > and several pictures on the crates: > http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/rv_photos/ > > The latest shipping info on Van's website > indicates that there may have been more crates. > > Based on what you see, could it be a complete kit? > Or has the finishing kit crate gone away? > > Thanks, Joe > rv7a plans > Zodiac 601XL, 602 hours + climbing > N633Z @ BFI > do not archive > > RV-List Email Forum - > _- > = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > _- > = - List Contribution Web Site - > _- > = -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:14 PM PST US From: halbenjamin@optonline.net Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Hi Tracey, Congratulations on the successful first flight. Hope to see you with the new plane at Sun & Fun next year. Good luck with the rest of your test program. Hal Benjamin RV4 - Long Island, NY Finishing the last 1.2 million things Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. > Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV- > 8 but flight > test it. > > For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B > is a 3 rotor > version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes > about 300 HP > in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the > Japanese car it > came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with > the Mazda > 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. > > Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling > system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. > Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some > reason I > had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked > with no > problems, which is always a surprise. > > High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P- > factor was no > worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be > prematurebecause I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. > The RV-8 has 1.25 > degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no > offset.First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear > intersectionfairings. > > Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at > the same fuel > flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure > but the > throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on > the -8 feels > more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's > physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at > about the > same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather > than rotates > off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground > than the -4 > with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had > extendedboth wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span > loading are less than > on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This > was actually > the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had > floated off > ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. > > Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was > not matching > the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end > of the runway > (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the > airplane is > climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat- > of-the pants > takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in > anticipation of > today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of > partial or > complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a > standard ASI for > backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after > throttling back to 8 > GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not > absorbing much due > to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the > EFIS1 has the > primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 > MPH when I > finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup > ASI, VSI & > Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now > about 100 > MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the > first landing > sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground > speed on the > display either. Glad I did all that practice. > > Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I > had taken off > with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & > water temps > nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data > hoping the temps > will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are > stabilizing at > about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since > they had been > well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was > currentlyflying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). > > The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is > able to trim > out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels > like it is > gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the > plane feels > just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about > 135 mph) the > roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The > ailerons were > extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've > completed a > wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach > so I > throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is > significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having > more effect > than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 > with a 20B > ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one > equipped with an > 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped > with an IO - > 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is > 1150 lbs. All > the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for > a go around > and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag > at all. > > The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me > from data > gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a > data logging > EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup > for an > approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed > and excess > glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being > confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance > at the ASI > and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. > > All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be > exactly the > airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking > to do. > > Tracy Crook > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:18 PM PST US From: halbenjamin@optonline.net Subject: Re: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet Hi Tom, I've found that you can use a sanding disk in a die grinder to sand the locking end (shop head) down a to the point that you can drive the pin out with a spring loaded center punch. Just sand off enough of the shop head to release some of the stem's friction. I use an old punch that no longer has it's point attached. I stick a used cherry max stem in the punch where the point used to be & drive the stem out of the rivet. It takes about 10 or 20 snaps with the punch, but it's easier on the surrounding structures. Then as you know, it's easy to drill out the rest. Good luck. Hal Benjamin - RV4 Long Island, NY ----- Original Message ----- From: thomas sargent Subject: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet > I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I > have first > driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. > But these 2 > are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. > What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? > Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter > drill and > then hit the shaft? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > -- > Tom Sargent > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.