Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:17 AM - What's My Contribution Used For? (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:44 AM - Work Bench Cover (rveighta@comcast.net)
2. 05:04 AM - Brake Fire wasBrakes (Ed Anderson)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Fisher Paul A.)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Charles Kuss)
5. 05:54 AM - Re: Brakes (Roger Smart)
6. 06:33 AM - Re: LED Interior Lights (Bret Smith)
7. 07:13 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (dave.gribble@mchsi.com)
8. 07:14 AM - Re: LED Interior Lights (Chris Stone)
9. 07:54 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (Panama Red)
10. 08:19 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (Randy Utsey)
11. 08:46 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Greg Young)
12. 09:15 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (Linn Walters)
13. 09:19 AM - elevator trim, manual vs electric (thomas sargent)
14. 09:35 AM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (Ralph E. Capen)
15. 09:50 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Jim Sears)
16. 10:26 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Terry Watson)
17. 10:36 AM - Thicker Rotors was Brake Fire wasBrakes (Ed Anderson)
18. 10:39 AM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (rveighta@comcast.net)
19. 10:50 AM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (Randy Utsey)
20. 11:53 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Mike Nellis)
21. 12:58 PM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (larygagnon@aol.com)
22. 01:04 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc.)
23. 03:54 PM - Aluminum Tubing was Brake Fire wasBrakes (Ed Anderson)
24. 04:18 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Bill and Tami Britton)
25. 04:24 PM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (Denis Walsh)
26. 05:41 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Gordon or Marge)
27. 06:31 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Sherman Butler)
28. 07:12 PM - Re: Aluminum Tubing was Brake Fire wasBrakes (Tim Olson)
29. 08:53 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (MLWynn@aol.com)
30. 09:59 PM - Epic Riveting Day (Norman Hunger)
Message 0
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Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on
the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List
services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling
the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search
Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really
said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search
and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and
maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List
Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places
on the Internet can you make all those statements these days?
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable
List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one
of the best investments you can make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | Work Bench Cover |
Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with som
e sort of protective cover, which
I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would apprecia
te any input as to what is used and
where to get it.
Thanks,=C2-=C2-=C2- Walt Shipley
Message 2
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I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 with
the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid
fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the
incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of
water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the
incident.
I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew a
chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless steel
braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had double
the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the
same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass.
The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade
even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last
longer.
But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and
probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire.
YMMV
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement:
> "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has
> been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon.
> MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic
> upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest
> is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas
> 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have
> been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken
> the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard
> MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31.
>
> Tom Gummo wrote:
>>
>> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is
>> RED fluid in the lines.
>>
>> Tom Gummo
>> Harmon Rocket II
>> 370 hours and still smiling.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
>> <kellym@aviating.com>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>>
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/
>>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little
>>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available.
>>>
>>> Norman Hunger wrote:
>>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and
>>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white
>>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can
>>>> small AN fittings be used here?
>>>>
>>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot
>>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt
>>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt
>>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces
>>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother.
>>>> Is this true?
>>>>
>>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy
>>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders
>>>> for stronger ones. Is this true?
>>>>
>>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are
>>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels
>>>> and brakes? Do they work better?
>>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html
>>>>
>>>> Who makes the best tires?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your support....
>>>> Norman Hunger
>>>> RV6A Delta BC
>>>> Do not archive
>>>> Nov 17-09 - 15
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3267 (20080714) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 3
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Subject: | Work Bench Cover |
SSB1c2VkIHRoZSBsaW5lciBtYXRlcmlhbCBmb3IgdG9vbCBib3hlcy4gIFlvdSBjYW4gYnV5IGl0
IGJ5IHRoZSByb2xsIGF0IFNlYXJzIChhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIG90aGVyIHBsYWNlcykuICBEbyBhIEdv
b2dsZSBzZWFyY2ggZm9yIOKAnHRvb2wgZHJhd2VyIGxpbmVy4oCdLiBJdOKAmXMgdHlwaWNhbGx5
IHRvIGtlZXAgdG9vbHMgZnJvbSBzbGlkaW5nIGFyb3VuZCBpbnNpZGUgdGhlIHRvb2wgYm94LCBi
dXQgaXQgYWxzbyBoZWxwcyBrZWVwIHBhcnRzIGZyb20gc2xpZGluZyBhcm91bmQgb24gdGhlIGJl
bmNoISAgUGx1cyBhcyB5b3Ugc2F5LCBpdCBoZWxwcyBrZWVwIHNjcmF0Y2hlcyB0byBhIG1pbmlt
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bWV0YWwgY2hpcHMgZnJvbSBwYXJ0Lg0KDQpIb3BlIHRoYXQgaGVscHMuDQoNClBhdWwgQS4gRmlz
aGVyDQpSVi03QSBOMThQRiB+NjAgaG91cnMgc2luY2UgQXVndXN0DQoNCkZyb206IG93bmVyLXJ2
LWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1ydi1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBt
YXRyb25pY3MuY29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgcnZlaWdodGFAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQNClNlbnQ6IFdl
ZG5lc2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTgsIDIwMDkgMDY6NDMNClRvOiBydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5j
b20NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IFdvcmsgQmVuY2ggQ292ZXINCg0KDQpHdXlzLCBvbiBzb21l
IG9mIHRoZSBSViB3ZWJzaXRlcyBJJ3ZlIG5vdGljZWQgd29yayBiZW5jaGVzIGNvdmVyZWQgd2l0
aCBzb21lIHNvcnQgb2YgcHJvdGVjdGl2ZSBjb3Zlciwgd2hpY2gNCg0KSSdtIGFzc3VtaW5nIGlz
IHRoZXJlIHRvIHByZXZlbnQgc2NyYXRjaGVzIG9uIG1ldGFsIHBhcnRzLiBJIHdvdWxkIGFwcHJl
Y2lhdGUgYW55IGlucHV0IGFzIHRvIHdoYXQgaXMgdXNlZCBhbmQNCg0Kd2hlcmUgdG8gZ2V0IGl0
Lg0KDQoNCg0KVGhhbmtzLCAgICBXYWx0IFNoaXBsZXkNCg0KDQoNCg0K
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Work Bench Cover |
Walt,
I don't have a web page. I use carpeting scraps to prevent scratching of aluminum
sheet parts. I usually place this on the work bench just prior to removing
the plastic coating. This is usually for the dimpling process.
I simply go to my local carpet supplier and check out the dumpster behind his
shop. Another material you can use is cork sheet. This is used under carpeting
& laminate flooring. Home Depot carries it, in case you can't find any in the
dumpster! :-)
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 11/18/09, rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> wrote:
> From: rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 7:43 AM
> #yiv2001607845 p
> {margin:0;}Guys,
> on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches
> covered with some sort of protective cover, which
> I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal
> parts. I would appreciate any input as to what is used
> and
> where to get it.
>
> Thanks, Walt Shipley
>
>
>
> provided
> Admin.
>
>
Message 5
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|
With the plastic lines going to the wheels we should use the one with
the higher flashpoint
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement:
> "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has
> been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon.
> MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic
> upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest
> is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas
> 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have
> been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken
> the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard
> MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31.
>
> Tom Gummo wrote:
>>
>> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is
>> RED fluid in the lines.
>>
>> Tom Gummo
>> Harmon Rocket II
>> 370 hours and still smiling.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
>> <kellym@aviating.com>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>>
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/
>>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little
>>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available.
>>>
>>> Norman Hunger wrote:
>>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and
>>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white
>>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can
>>>> small AN fittings be used here?
>>>>
>>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot
>>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt
>>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt
>>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces
>>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother.
>>>> Is this true?
>>>>
>>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy
>>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders
>>>> for stronger ones. Is this true?
>>>>
>>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are
>>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels
>>>> and brakes? Do they work better?
>>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html
>>>>
>>>> Who makes the best tires?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your support....
>>>> Norman Hunger
>>>> RV6A Delta BC
>>>> Do not archive
>>>> Nov 17-09 - 15
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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|
Subject: | Re: LED Interior Lights |
www.Superbrightleds.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hadley Heinrichs
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: LED Interior Lights
Pep Boys!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Norman Hunger <norman96@telus.net>
To: RV List <rv-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 7:51:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: LED Interior Lights
Hi everybody, I'm looking for suggestions on interior LED lighting.
I'm after some small fixtures to light the floor and luggage areas. Also
looking for some kind of LED strip light to do the panel. Any ideas on
sources?
Thanks,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Nov 17-09 - 10
Message 7
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|
Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source / approximate
$$ of the thicker rotors?
Thanks again,
dave
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 with
> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid
> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the
> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of
> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the
> incident.
>
> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew a
> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless steel
> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had double
> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the
> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass.
>
> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade
> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last
> longer.
>
> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and
> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire.
>
> YMMV
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>
>
> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps.
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement:
> > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has
> > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon.
> > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic
> > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest
> > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas
> > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have
> > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken
> > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard
> > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31.
> >
> > Tom Gummo wrote:
> >>
> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is
> >> RED fluid in the lines.
> >>
> >> Tom Gummo
> >> Harmon Rocket II
> >> 370 hours and still smiling.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
> >> <kellym@aviating.com>
> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM
> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/
> >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little
> >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available.
> >>>
> >>> Norman Hunger wrote:
> >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and
> >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white
> >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can
> >>>> small AN fittings be used here?
> >>>>
> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot
> >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt
> >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt
> >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces
> >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother.
> >>>> Is this true?
> >>>>
> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy
> >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders
> >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true?
> >>>>
> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are
> >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels
> >>>> and brakes? Do they work better?
> >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html
> >>>>
> >>>> Who makes the best tires?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for your support....
> >>>> Norman Hunger
> >>>> RV6A Delta BC
> >>>> Do not archive
> >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________
> >>>
> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: LED Interior Lights |
Strip light LEDs in white and colors. Attach to underside of glareshield and windscreen
bow.
http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=17362+OP
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Hunger
Sent: Nov 17, 2009 8:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: LED Interior Lights
Hi everybody, I'm looking for suggestions on interior LED lighting. I'm after some
small fixtures to light the floor and luggage areas. Also looking for some
kind of LED strip light to do the panel. Any ideas on sources?
Thanks,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Nov 17-09 - 10
Message 9
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|
I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake
fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system?
I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to the
plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire brake
system?
Bob
RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
----- Original Message -----
From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
>
> Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source /
> approximate $$ of the thicker rotors?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> dave
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>>
>> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606
>> with
>> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid
>> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the
>> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of
>> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the
>> incident.
>>
>> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew
>> a
>> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless
>> steel
>> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had
>> double
>> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the
>> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass.
>>
>> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade
>> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last
>> longer.
>>
>> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and
>> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire.
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Ed Anderson
>>
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>
>> Matthews, NC
>>
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>
>> http://www.andersonee.com
>>
>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>>
>> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>
>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>
>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>>
>>
>> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps.
>>
>> Pax,
>>
>> Ed Holyoke
>>
>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> >
>> > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement:
>> > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has
>> > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon.
>> > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic
>> > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest
>> > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas
>> > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have
>> > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken
>> > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard
>> > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31.
>> >
>> > Tom Gummo wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is
>> >> RED fluid in the lines.
>> >>
>> >> Tom Gummo
>> >> Harmon Rocket II
>> >> 370 hours and still smiling.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
>> >> <kellym@aviating.com>
>> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/
>> >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little
>> >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available.
>> >>>
>> >>> Norman Hunger wrote:
>> >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and
>> >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white
>> >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can
>> >>>> small AN fittings be used here?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot
>> >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt
>> >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt
>> >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces
>> >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother.
>> >>>> Is this true?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy
>> >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders
>> >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are
>> >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels
>> >>>> and brakes? Do they work better?
>> >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who makes the best tires?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for your support....
>> >>>> Norman Hunger
>> >>>> RV6A Delta BC
>> >>>> Do not archive
>> >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________
>> >>>
>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Heavy Feet??
Randy
RV-7
----- Original Message -----
From: "Panama Red" <panamared505@brier.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake
fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system?
I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to the
plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire brake
system?
Bob
RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
----- Original Message -----
From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
>
> Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source /
> approximate $$ of the thicker rotors?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> dave
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>>
>> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606
>> with
>> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid
>> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the
>> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of
>> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the
>> incident.
>>
>> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew
>> a
>> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless
>> steel
>> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had
>> double
>> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the
>> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass.
>>
>> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade
>> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last
>> longer.
>>
>> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and
>> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire.
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Ed Anderson
>>
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>
>> Matthews, NC
>>
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>
>> http://www.andersonee.com
>>
>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>>
>> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>
>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>
>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>>
>>
>> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps.
>>
>> Pax,
>>
>> Ed Holyoke
>>
>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> >
>> > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement:
>> > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has
>> > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon.
>> > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic
>> > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest
>> > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas
>> > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have
>> > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken
>> > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard
>> > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31.
>> >
>> > Tom Gummo wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is
>> >> RED fluid in the lines.
>> >>
>> >> Tom Gummo
>> >> Harmon Rocket II
>> >> 370 hours and still smiling.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
>> >> <kellym@aviating.com>
>> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/
>> >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little
>> >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available.
>> >>>
>> >>> Norman Hunger wrote:
>> >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and
>> >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white
>> >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can
>> >>>> small AN fittings be used here?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot
>> >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt
>> >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt
>> >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces
>> >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother.
>> >>>> Is this true?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy
>> >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders
>> >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are
>> >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels
>> >>>> and brakes? Do they work better?
>> >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who makes the best tires?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for your support....
>> >>>> Norman Hunger
>> >>>> RV6A Delta BC
>> >>>> Do not archive
>> >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________
>> >>>
>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | RV6A Project Resurrected |
Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on the
list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together kits have
come to prominence but there are still slow builders out there chipping away
at their projects.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Hunger
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected
Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say hello. I was
hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time to time. I was a part of
this list many years ago and found it very helpful.
I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for about 5 years
2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved into a house with not
enough room. I spent years arguing with my city to allow a big garage
extension and then over a year building. I've now built shelves for
everything and have unpacked all my old building stuff. I'm ready to get
back to building.
I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport Power. I would
like the latest version of a fuel injected dual alternator CS engine that
will mount a Sam James cowl and Vetterman exhaust with mufflers. Propeller
selection might be more towards quiet and smooth over pure speed. I want to
be quiet. I should ready to get the engine within the next year.
I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly. Does anyone
know what the going price of a hanger there these days? Lease, purchase or
rent?
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive
Message 12
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Panama Red wrote:
>
> I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake
> fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system?
I don't think you've missed anything. And there aren't 'many' RVs
having problems. All it takes is a few. Then add those Long EZs,
Velocities etc. that basically started the plastic line implementation
.... and now you have a few more.
From what I know, the problem arises when there's a long taxi with a
crosswind .... the brakes get hot, the plastic gets soft, and it
ruptures. Have you just dodged the bullet? Who knows. All I know is
that it's a weak spot, and I'm going to fix mine.
>
> I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to
> the plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the
> entire brake system?
I really think that decision is up to you. Do you like to gamble???
BTW, I've already replaced the plastic brake line between the pass and
pilot side. I don't understand why, on the high pressure side, he uses
plastic from the pass side, then flex (that one I understand) to the
firewall, then hard alum to the gear leg and then plastic to the brake
cylinder.
Linn
>
> Bob
> RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
Message 13
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|
Subject: | elevator trim, manual vs electric |
I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully
installed before and am running into various problems that have me
reconsidering things.
The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no
dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive
connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the
electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot
lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away.
Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric
easier to install/live with?
--
Tom Sargent
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
Tom,
I went with the Gretz relocated electric trim from day one. Control is on a hat
switch on the stick grip. During my initial transition training, I practiced
controlling the elevator with the trim in the opposite direction (probably ought
to practice that again as it was quite a while ago).
My only disappointment has been the little displays - I've had to replace them
a couple of time as one of the internal LED's quit.
No other issues,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
>Sent: Nov 18, 2009 12:19 PM
>To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric
>
>I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully
>installed before and am running into various problems that have me
>reconsidering things.
>
>The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no
>dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive
>connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the
>electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot
>lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away.
>
>Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric
>easier to install/live with?
>
>--
>Tom Sargent
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: RV6A Project Resurrected |
I have a RV-7A lanquishing in my shop, right now. I did get my -6A
flying in 1999. It only took about 7.5 years. :-) I know how it is.
:-)
Jim Sears in KY
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Young
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected
Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on
the list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together kits
have come to prominence but there are still slow builders out there
chipping away at their projects.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Hunger
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM
To: RV List
Subject: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected
Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say
hello. I was hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time to
time. I was a part of this list many years ago and found it very
helpful.
I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for about
5 years 2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved into a house
with not enough room. I spent years arguing with my city to allow a big
garage extension and then over a year building. I've now built shelves
for everything and have unpacked all my old building stuff. I'm ready to
get back to building.
I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport Power.
I would like the latest version of a fuel injected dual alternator CS
engine that will mount a Sam James cowl and Vetterman exhaust with
mufflers. Propeller selection might be more towards quiet and smooth
over pure speed. I want to be quiet. I should ready to get the engine
within the next year.
I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly.
Does anyone know what the going price of a hanger there these days?
Lease, purchase or rent?
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive
Message 16
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Subject: | RV6A Project Resurrected |
Me too. My 8A has been about 90% complete for at least 5 years now.
Terry
Seattle
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sears
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected
I have a RV-7A lanquishing in my shop, right now. I did get my -6A flying
in 1999. It only took about 7.5 years. :-) I know how it is. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Young <mailto:gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected
Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on the
list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together kits have
come to prominence but there are still slow builders out there chipping away
at their projects.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Hunger
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected
Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say hello. I was
hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time to time. I was a part of
this list many years ago and found it very helpful.
I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for about 5 years
2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved into a house with not
enough room. I spent years arguing with my city to allow a big garage
extension and then over a year building. I've now built shelves for
everything and have unpacked all my old building stuff. I'm ready to get
back to building.
I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport Power. I would
like the latest version of a fuel injected dual alternator CS engine that
will mount a Sam James cowl and Vetterman exhaust with mufflers. Propeller
selection might be more towards quiet and smooth over pure speed. I want to
be quiet. I should ready to get the engine within the next year.
I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly. Does anyone
know what the going price of a hanger there these days? Lease, purchase or
rent?
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 17
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Hi Dave
Yes, I did install the thicker rotors on my RV-6A. I really love the solid
feel I now have. Since they are twice the mass, the same amount of heat
energy only raises the rotor temperature approx 1/2 of the thinner rotors -
helps keeps the seals from cooking as well as helping to prevent temps high
enough to set off the brake fluid.
Aircraft Spruce at one time (and may still) offered a thicker rotor kit
#199-93 assembly. However, at the time it was close to $350 and I decided
to see if I could do better (did!).
The Cleveland/parker part number for the thicker rotor disc is 164-09900.
However, I used the Rappco part RA 164-09900 from Chief Aircraft for $84.00
each
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Brakes/BrakeDiscs.html
That was the expense 2 * 84 = $168 for both rotors, the rest of the fittings
I made in my shop. There were the 1/8" pad spacer described below and the
longer aluminum bushings to stand off the wheel pant. At the time I made
up some new wheel pant brackets out of SS since I had lost one on the burnt
up wheel pant.
Now some of the more recent RVs (such as the 8s) have a slightly different
brake set up due to the plate gear rod - so this may not apply to them.
Otherwise, pretty straight forward.
You do have to have a 1/8" (0.125") shim plate to place between the two pad
holders to compensate for the thicker rotor for each wheel. If you buy them
they cost about the same as the rotors, the cheapest I could find were
$84.00 EACH - which I though absurd given the rotors only cost $85 each. So
I made mine out of 6061-T6 1/8" aluminum plate/sheet. They will have to be
curved on the underside (axle edge) to match the curvature of the rotor -
but not a big job. The most critical thing (and not that hard) is to make
certain the holes in the plate match the pad holes - you don't want the
spacer binding. Took me approx 30 minutes to make both. I anodize them
for corrosion resistance.
Also, I had to lengthen the aluminum tubes used to stand off the wheel pant
attachment bracket by approx 1/8" otherwise the thicker rotor wanted to rub
on the bracket. Again, no biggie.
I also switched to stainless steel braided Teflon brake lines, they give the
brakes a much more solid feel and much less likely to rupture. I personally
will never go back to the aluminum lines myself - but that is just my
personal viewpoint, thousands are flying with them.
Hope this helps
Ed
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dave.gribble@mchsi.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source /
approximate $$ of the thicker rotors?
Thanks again,
dave
-------------- Original message ----------------------
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3267 (20080714) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
Tom, I built an RV-8A with manual trim and an RV-8 with electric trim, and
for me I'd go with the manual trim if I had it to do over in
another plane. Two reasons: first the manual cable seemed easier to install
=C2- and secondly and most important, the manual trim
allowed me to precisely adjust trim for any speed. With the electric, preci
se trim at cruise speeds was dang near impossible.
Just my 2 cents.....
Walt Shipley
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas sargent" <sarg314@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:19:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric
I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully inst
alled before and am running into various problems that have me reconsiderin
g things.
The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no d
ependence on the electrical system.=C2- I also like the very positive con
nection from my hand to the trim tab.=C2- But, (I'm guessing here) the el
ectric looks like it's a lot easier to install.=C2- It's probably also a
lot lighter.=C2- Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's run
ning away.
Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric?=C2- Is the electr
ic easier to install/live with?
--
Tom Sargent
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
Tom, I have 260 hrs on my manual trim RV-7 and would do it again as the
trim is so precise and sensitive and it can't break (or not very
likely)! 1/4" adjustments at the trim knob are all that is required
when you are nearing cruise speed and altitude.
Randy Utsey
RV-7 / N55CU
----- Original Message -----
From: rveighta@comcast.net
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric
Tom, I built an RV-8A with manual trim and an RV-8 with electric trim,
and for me I'd go with the manual trim if I had it to do over in
another plane. Two reasons: first the manual cable seemed easier to
install and secondly and most important, the manual trim
allowed me to precisely adjust trim for any speed. With the electric,
precise trim at cruise speeds was dang near impossible.
Just my 2 cents.....
Walt Shipley
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas sargent" <sarg314@gmail.com>
To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:19:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
Eastern
Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric
I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully
installed before and am running into various problems that have me
reconsidering things.
The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring,
no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive
connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the
electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a
lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's
running away.
Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the
electric easier to install/live with?
--
Tom Sargent
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
p://forums.matronics.com
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: RV6A Project Resurrected |
Let me forward my "Welcome Back" as well. I bought my kit in April of
'97 and am working on the tip-up roll bar now. Progress is very slow
and I got for months at a time without even touching it. I try to keep
up with the various aspects of the RV world via this message board (and
others) so it's good to see your name on the list again.
Mike Nellis
> Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on
> the list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together
> kits have come to prominence but there are still slow builders out
> there chipping away at their projects.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
> RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
> Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Norman
> Hunger
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM
> *To:* RV List
> *Subject:* RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected
>
> Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say
> hello. I was hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time
> to time. I was a part of this list many years ago and found it
> very helpful.
>
> I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for
> about 5 years 2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved
> into a house with not enough room. I spent years arguing with my
> city to allow a big garage extension and then over a year
> building. I've now built shelves for everything and have unpacked
> all my old building stuff. I'm ready to get back to building.
>
> I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport
> Power. I would like the latest version of a fuel injected dual
> alternator CS engine that will mount a Sam James cowl and
> Vetterman exhaust with mufflers. Propeller selection might be more
> towards quiet and smooth over pure speed. I want to be quiet. I
> should ready to get the engine within the next year.
>
> I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly.
> Does anyone know what the going price of a hanger there these
> days? Lease, purchase or rent?
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
Tom,
I've done both and I prefer the manual. The electric is very sensitive
at cruise but works well in the pattern. I've seen various devices to ch
ange the speed of the servo depending on your airspeed but they are expe
nsive and add complexity. I'll take the weight penalty of the manual. Do
n't forget the size of the mount on the trim tab is different from manual
to electric.
Larry Gagnon
RV6 N6LG
-----Original Message
From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 12:19 pm
Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric
I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully ins
talled before and am running into various problems that have me reconsider
ing things.
The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no
dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive conne
ction from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the electric
looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot lighte
r. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away.
Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric
easier to install/live with?
--
Tom Sargent
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Work Bench Cover |
Walt, I have used the light weight rubber mats you can get at Fleet
Farm or Home Depot, however, pine table tops are just fine or whatever
material you have available. I'm moving my project to the hangar this
week and making a few more tables. Good luck!
Jim Fogarty
RV9a Building
----- Original Message -----
From: rveighta@comcast.net
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover
Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered
with some sort of protective cover, which
I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would
appreciate any input as to what is used and
where to get it.
Thanks, Walt Shipley
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
Message 23
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|
Hi Bob,
Hi Bob,
In my case I followed the plans exactly, the apparent cause was fatique
of
the aluminum tubing which on the old RV-6A kits was bent to wrap around
the
gear leg to provide some "flex" as brake calipers worked in an out.
Mine
blew out a chuck of the tubing wall approx 1" long and 1/2 the
circumference
of the tube. I mean the line did not just break at a point; it
fractured
and blew out this segment.
Here is a photo of the tubing. You can see the long piece of the
sidewall
taken out. There are several possibilities about why it broke. It had
been
in use for 5 years and over 250 hours of flying time, numerous landings.
1. Material defect - possible but unlikely after 300 hours
2. Tubing damaged (rock or something) - again possible, but there was
no
evidence of a dent or scratch that I could see
3. Possibly I work harden the aluminum tubing as I bent the loop around
the
axis.
But, in any case, my nephew was taking a video when the line broke and a
fire ball rose above the wing when the fluid ignited - exciting times
commenced at that point. That was the same instant my right brake
peddle
went to the floor and I ended up exiting the runway - fortunately into a
shallow ditch - managed to get the prop turned horizontal before hitting
it.
So damage was limited to my brand new Michelin tire and tube and the
wheel
pant.
I have heard of several similar incidents - few when you consider the
thousands of Rvs out there with aluminum tubing - however, take it from
me
once, is more than enough if it happens to you.
Best Regards
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Panama Red
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake
fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system?
I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to
the
plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire
brake
system?
Bob
RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
----- Original Message -----
From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
>
> Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source /
> approximate $$ of the thicker rotors?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> dave
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the
MIL-H_5606
>> with
>> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake
fluid
>> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after
the
>> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point
of
>> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of
the
>> incident.
>>
>> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line
blew
>> a
>> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless
>> steel
>> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had
>> double
>> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with
the
>> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass.
>>
>> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake
fade
>> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last
>> longer.
>>
>> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest
and
>> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire.
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Ed Anderson
>>
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>
>> Matthews, NC
>>
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>
>> http://www.andersonee.com
>>
>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>>
>> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>
>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>
>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>>
>>
>> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps.
>>
>> Pax,
>>
>> Ed Holyoke
>>
>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> >
>> > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement:
>> > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid
has
>> > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon.
>> > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic
>> > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special
interest
>> > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225=B0 whereas
>> > 83282 is around 425=B0. This can be a factor with RVs because there
have
>> > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have
taken
>> > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the
standard
>> > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31.
>> >
>> > Tom Gummo wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is
>> >> RED fluid in the lines.
>> >>
>> >> Tom Gummo
>> >> Harmon Rocket II
>> >> 370 hours and still smiling.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
>> >> <kellym@aviating.com>
>> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>> >>
>> >>
<kellym@aviating.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/
>> >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little
>> >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available.
>> >>>
>> >>> Norman Hunger wrote:
>> >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit
and
>> >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white
>> >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines?
Can
>> >>>> small AN fittings be used here?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short
pivot
>> >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one
bolt
>> >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single
bolt
>> >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft
reduces
>> >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate
smoother.
>> >>>> Is this true?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy
>> >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master
cylinders
>> >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires
are
>> >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove
wheels
>> >>>> and brakes? Do they work better?
>> >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who makes the best tires?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for your support....
>> >>>> Norman Hunger
>> >>>> RV6A Delta BC
>> >>>> Do not archive
>> >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus
>> >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________
>> >>>
>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
database 3267 (20080714) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
database 3267 (20080714) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Work Bench Cover |
Try short mesh carpet (I think they call it berber). That's what I use
and it works great.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc.
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Work Bench Cover
Walt, I have used the light weight rubber mats you can get at Fleet
Farm or Home Depot, however, pine table tops are just fine or whatever
material you have available. I'm moving my project to the hangar this
week and making a few more tables. Good luck!
Jim Fogarty
RV9a Building
----- Original Message -----
From: rveighta@comcast.net
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover
Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered
with some sort of protective cover, which
I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would
appreciate any input as to what is used and
where to get it.
Thanks, Walt Shipley
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.aeroelectric.com"'>www.aeroelectric.com
href='3D"http://www.buildersbooks.com"'>www.buildersbooks.com
href='3D"http://www.homebuilthelp.com"'>www.homebuilthelp.com
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"'>http://www.matron
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/18/09 01:50:00
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
This is a tough trade off analysis, and a lot of it is purely
subjective; Here's my take.
Cost: the manual is far cheaper
Installation: I believe the Installation is slightly easier on the
electric but shoe horning that servo in to the elevator is not easy.
If the Gretz version is still available, it makes the electric way
easier.
weight: The electric is far lighter.
Space: The manual takes up a bit of space in the cockpit so the
electric gets the nod.
Feel: This is very subjective to say the least. For my money the
manual has a far better feel and preciseness. To add to the bargain
you can see what you got for take off or go around. Easier to set,
and quicker too. Most pilots don't like the lack of feed back from
the electric servo and its slowness. You can get various speed
changers and gain switchers. Bottom line is most pilots who have
flown with electric trim before can get accustomed to the
shortcomings. I did.
Safety: Probably the most debated issue. Surely "runaway trim" is a
possibility with the electric. It is not a possibility with the manual.
I know lots of folks will come after me for saying this, but I don't
think it is a significant problem in an RV-6A. First of all most of
the dark and stormy night horror stories are about big airplanes with
stabilizer trim. On the B-52 it was a real threat. The huge
hydraulic motors could drive the huge stabilizer very quickly to a
position far beyond you ability to overcome the pitch force with the
puny elevator. With elevator trim in the RV 6A. you do not lose
elevator effectiveness when the trim tab takes off. For example if
the trim runs away to full down (tab up) and you counter it with up
elevator, then your effective elevator power is actually more than if
the tab were elsewhere.
I have tested many times and the elevator force required to overcome
full up trim on take off is easily manageable. I don't know how fast
you can go and still control it with our using both hands but I
believe it is do able. I leave it to Kevin Horton to do this test for
us.
As for me I installed a pullable circuit breaker for the trim power
which is easily accessible. It has never been used in flight.
I went with the electric and have had several failures, all broken
wires. I replaced most of the wires with mil spec 22 ga and solved
that problem. These failures would cause me to lose trim altogether.
Basically an inconvenience in the RV-6A.
Good luck on your choice.. I like both systems, but went with the
electric and have no regrets. My little servo has 2400 hours on it
and still works. I used the matronics speed controller and ordered a
new improved one after the old one was ten years old, got rained on,
and became intermittent. When pulling it out to switch I found a
loose connection so it is still in the plane (with a rain guard) and I
have a spare if you want to make an offer. ; ).
LET THE flames begin on my rant about runaway trim. I would surely
like to hear from someone who has experienced it with an RV-6.
Denis
On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:19 , thomas sargent wrote:
> I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable
> fully installed before and am running into various problems that
> have me reconsidering things.
>
> The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no
> wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the
> very positive connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm
> guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to
> install. It's probably also a lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots
> of stories about the servo's running away.
>
> Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the
> electric easier to install/live with?
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Work Bench Cover |
Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover
Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with
some
sort of protective cover, which
I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would
appreciate any input as to what is used and
where to get it.
Thanks, Walt Shipley
Old timers have used and I continue to use a corrugated cardboard bench
cover. It's cheap, usually free, and heavier versions make a good
surface
for working on. The smooth surface does not retain particulates and a
brushing followed by a bare handed wipe makes a clean enough area that
you
can slide aluminum around without scratching it. Gordon Comfort,
N363GC.
.
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Work Bench Cover |
Walt,
Try kitchen drawer liner from Big Lots, perforated- foam rubber,- brigh
t, soft and non slip.
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
N497GS reserved
Carlsbad, NM
--- On Wed, 11/18/09, rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> wrote:
From: rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover
#yiv1329106890 p {margin:0;}
Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with som
e sort of protective cover, which
I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would apprecia
te any input as to what is used and
where to get it.
-
Thanks,--- Walt Shipley
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Message 28
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One thing I find interesting is how many people know/say that
you shouldn't use aluminum tubing for things like primer
lines that run between the engine and the cockpit, just for
the fact that aluminum can crack when it work hardens...yet
at the same time, many people don't believe this is a problem
with the brake lines around the gear legs. The gear leg/brake
area will flex far more drastically than most engine to
firewall lines will.
I think it's a no-brainer too....definitely flex lines out
around the wheel area. They should give a lifetime of service.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Ed Anderson wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> In my case I followed the plans exactly, the apparent cause was fatique of
> the aluminum tubing which on the old RV-6A kits was bent to wrap around the
> gear leg to provide some "flex" as brake calipers worked in an out. Mine
> blew out a chuck of the tubing wall approx 1" long and 1/2 the circumference
> of the tube. I mean the line did not just break at a point; it fractured
> and blew out this segment.
>
> Here is a photo of the tubing. You can see the long piece of the sidewall
> taken out. There are several possibilities about why it broke. It had been
> in use for 5 years and over 250 hours of flying time, numerous landings.
> 1. Material defect - possible but unlikely after 300 hours
> 2. Tubing damaged (rock or something) - again possible, but there was no
> evidence of a dent or scratch that I could see
> 3. Possibly I work harden the aluminum tubing as I bent the loop around the
> axis.
>
> But, in any case, my nephew was taking a video when the line broke and a
> fire ball rose above the wing when the fluid ignited - exciting times
> commenced at that point. That was the same instant my right brake peddle
> went to the floor and I ended up exiting the runway - fortunately into a
> shallow ditch - managed to get the prop turned horizontal before hitting it.
>
> So damage was limited to my brand new Michelin tire and tube and the wheel
> pant.
>
> I have heard of several similar incidents - few when you consider the
> thousands of Rvs out there with aluminum tubing - however, take it from me
> once, is more than enough if it happens to you.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Panama Red
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:54 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
>
>
> I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake
> fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system?
>
> I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to the
> plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire brake
> system?
>
> Bob
> RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes
>
>
>>
>> Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source /
>> approximate $$ of the thicker rotors?
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> dave
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>>
>>> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606
>>> with
>>> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid
>>> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the
>>> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of
>>> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the
>>> incident.
>>>
>>> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew
>
>>> a
>>> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless
>>> steel
>>> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had
>>> double
>>> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the
>>> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass.
>>>
>>> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade
>>> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last
>>> longer.
>>>
>>> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and
>>> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire.
>>>
>>> YMMV
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Ed Anderson
>>>
>>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>>
>>> Matthews, NC
>>>
>>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>>
>>> http://www.andersonee.com
>>>
>>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>>>
>>> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>
>>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>>
>>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM
>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>>>
>>>
>>> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps.
>>>
>>> Pax,
>>>
>>> Ed Holyoke
>>>
>>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement:
>>>> "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has
>>>> been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon.
>>>> MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic
>>>> upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest
>>>> is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas
>>>> 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have
>>>> been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken
>>>> the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard
>>>> MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Gummo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is
>>>>> RED fluid in the lines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Gummo
>>>>> Harmon Rocket II
>>>>> 370 hours and still smiling.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
>>>>> <kellym@aviating.com>
>>>>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/
>>>>>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little
>>>>>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Norman Hunger wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and
>>>>>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white
>>>>>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can
>>>>>>> small AN fittings be used here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot
>>>>>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt
>>>>>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt
>>>>>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces
>>>>>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother.
>>>>>>> Is this true?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy
>>>>>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders
>>>>>>> for stronger ones. Is this true?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are
>>>>>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels
>>>>>>> and brakes? Do they work better?
>>>>>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who makes the best tires?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your support....
>>>>>>> Norman Hunger
>>>>>>> RV6A Delta BC
>>>>>>> Do not archive
>>>>>>> Nov 17-09 - 15
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>> signature
>>> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Work Bench Cover |
I built the EAA chapter 1000 work tables. About the same time, I found
these 2X5' mats at Woodcrafters. They are thick rubber, made for standing
on. Perfect fit for the benches. Firm but totally protect aluminum.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon
In a message dated 11/18/2009 5:50:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
chaskuss@yahoo.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.com>
Walt,
I don't have a web page. I use carpeting scraps to prevent scratching of
aluminum sheet parts. I usually place this on the work bench just prior to
removing the plastic coating. This is usually for the dimpling process.
I simply go to my local carpet supplier and check out the dumpster behind
his shop. Another material you can use is cork sheet. This is used under
carpeting & laminate flooring. Home Depot carries it, in case you can't find
any in the dumpster! :-)
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 11/18/09, rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> wrote:
> From: rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 7:43 AM
> #yiv2001607845 p
> {margin:0;}Guys,
> on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches
> covered with some sort of protective cover, which
> I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal
> parts. I would appreciate any input as to what is used
> and
> where to get it.
>
> Thanks, Walt Shipley
>
>
>
> provided
> Admin.
>
>
Message 30
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Subject: | Epic Riveting Day |
Today was an epic day in my 13 year build. I pounded about 30 rivets
and the construction log says that hasn't happened since 2002. The bad
news came later when I discovered I hadn't dimpled the next row of
holes to their final size of screw so I had to drill everything out
again. Tomorrow I start even further behind as I will now shim it to
perfection at the bottom corners. This isn't starting off too good...
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive
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