RV-List Digest Archive

Wed 11/18/09


Total Messages Posted: 31



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:17 AM - What's My Contribution Used For?  (Matt Dralle)
     1. 04:44 AM - Work Bench Cover (rveighta@comcast.net)
     2. 05:04 AM - Brake Fire wasBrakes (Ed Anderson)
     3. 05:17 AM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Fisher Paul A.)
     4. 05:49 AM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Charles Kuss)
     5. 05:54 AM - Re: Brakes (Roger Smart)
     6. 06:33 AM - Re: LED Interior Lights (Bret Smith)
     7. 07:13 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (dave.gribble@mchsi.com)
     8. 07:14 AM - Re: LED Interior Lights (Chris Stone)
     9. 07:54 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (Panama Red)
    10. 08:19 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (Randy Utsey)
    11. 08:46 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Greg Young)
    12. 09:15 AM - Re: Brake Fire wasBrakes (Linn Walters)
    13. 09:19 AM - elevator trim, manual vs electric (thomas sargent)
    14. 09:35 AM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (Ralph E. Capen)
    15. 09:50 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Jim Sears)
    16. 10:26 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Terry Watson)
    17. 10:36 AM - Thicker Rotors was Brake Fire wasBrakes (Ed Anderson)
    18. 10:39 AM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (rveighta@comcast.net)
    19. 10:50 AM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (Randy Utsey)
    20. 11:53 AM - Re: RV6A Project Resurrected (Mike Nellis)
    21. 12:58 PM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (larygagnon@aol.com)
    22. 01:04 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc.)
    23. 03:54 PM - Aluminum Tubing was Brake Fire wasBrakes (Ed Anderson)
    24. 04:18 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Bill and Tami Britton)
    25. 04:24 PM - Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric (Denis Walsh)
    26. 05:41 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Gordon or Marge)
    27. 06:31 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (Sherman Butler)
    28. 07:12 PM - Re: Aluminum Tubing was Brake Fire wasBrakes (Tim Olson)
    29. 08:53 PM - Re: Work Bench Cover (MLWynn@aol.com)
    30. 09:59 PM - Epic Riveting Day (Norman Hunger)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:17:49 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
    Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 04:44:43 AM PST US
    From: rveighta@comcast.net
    Subject: Work Bench Cover
    Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with som e sort of protective cover, which I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would apprecia te any input as to what is used and where to get it. Thanks,=C2-=C2-=C2- Walt Shipley


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:04:34 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Brakes
    I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 with the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the incident. I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew a chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless steel braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had double the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass. The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last longer. But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire. YMMV Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps. Pax, Ed Holyoke Kelly McMullen wrote: > > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon. > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31. > > Tom Gummo wrote: >> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is >> RED fluid in the lines. >> >> Tom Gummo >> Harmon Rocket II >> 370 hours and still smiling. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >> <kellym@aviating.com> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >>> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available. >>> >>> Norman Hunger wrote: >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can >>>> small AN fittings be used here? >>>> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother. >>>> Is this true? >>>> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? >>>> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels >>>> and brakes? Do they work better? >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html >>>> >>>> Who makes the best tires? >>>> >>>> Thanks for your support.... >>>> Norman Hunger >>>> RV6A Delta BC >>>> Do not archive >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:17:25 AM PST US
    From: "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA@JohnDeere.com>
    Subject: Work Bench Cover
    SSB1c2VkIHRoZSBsaW5lciBtYXRlcmlhbCBmb3IgdG9vbCBib3hlcy4gIFlvdSBjYW4gYnV5IGl0 IGJ5IHRoZSByb2xsIGF0IFNlYXJzIChhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIG90aGVyIHBsYWNlcykuICBEbyBhIEdv b2dsZSBzZWFyY2ggZm9yIOKAnHRvb2wgZHJhd2VyIGxpbmVy4oCdLiBJdOKAmXMgdHlwaWNhbGx5 IHRvIGtlZXAgdG9vbHMgZnJvbSBzbGlkaW5nIGFyb3VuZCBpbnNpZGUgdGhlIHRvb2wgYm94LCBi dXQgaXQgYWxzbyBoZWxwcyBrZWVwIHBhcnRzIGZyb20gc2xpZGluZyBhcm91bmQgb24gdGhlIGJl bmNoISAgUGx1cyBhcyB5b3Ugc2F5LCBpdCBoZWxwcyBrZWVwIHNjcmF0Y2hlcyB0byBhIG1pbmlt dW0uDQoNCkkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGVyZSBhcmUgc2V2ZXJhbCBzdHlsZXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlLiAgTWlu ZSBoYWQgc21hbGwgaG9sZXMgdGhyb3VnaG91dCBpdCB0aGF0IGhlbHBlZCBzZXBhcmF0ZSB0aGUg bWV0YWwgY2hpcHMgZnJvbSBwYXJ0Lg0KDQpIb3BlIHRoYXQgaGVscHMuDQoNClBhdWwgQS4gRmlz aGVyDQpSVi03QSBOMThQRiB+NjAgaG91cnMgc2luY2UgQXVndXN0DQoNCkZyb206IG93bmVyLXJ2 LWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1ydi1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgcnZlaWdodGFAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQNClNlbnQ6IFdl ZG5lc2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTgsIDIwMDkgMDY6NDMNClRvOiBydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IFdvcmsgQmVuY2ggQ292ZXINCg0KDQpHdXlzLCBvbiBzb21l IG9mIHRoZSBSViB3ZWJzaXRlcyBJJ3ZlIG5vdGljZWQgd29yayBiZW5jaGVzIGNvdmVyZWQgd2l0 aCBzb21lIHNvcnQgb2YgcHJvdGVjdGl2ZSBjb3Zlciwgd2hpY2gNCg0KSSdtIGFzc3VtaW5nIGlz IHRoZXJlIHRvIHByZXZlbnQgc2NyYXRjaGVzIG9uIG1ldGFsIHBhcnRzLiBJIHdvdWxkIGFwcHJl Y2lhdGUgYW55IGlucHV0IGFzIHRvIHdoYXQgaXMgdXNlZCBhbmQNCg0Kd2hlcmUgdG8gZ2V0IGl0 Lg0KDQoNCg0KVGhhbmtzLCAgICBXYWx0IFNoaXBsZXkNCg0KDQoNCg0K


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:49:33 AM PST US
    From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Work Bench Cover
    Walt, I don't have a web page. I use carpeting scraps to prevent scratching of aluminum sheet parts. I usually place this on the work bench just prior to removing the plastic coating. This is usually for the dimpling process. I simply go to my local carpet supplier and check out the dumpster behind his shop. Another material you can use is cork sheet. This is used under carpeting & laminate flooring. Home Depot carries it, in case you can't find any in the dumpster! :-) Charlie Kuss --- On Wed, 11/18/09, rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> wrote: > From: rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> > Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 7:43 AM > #yiv2001607845 p > {margin:0;}Guys, > on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches > covered with some sort of protective cover, which > I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal > parts. I would appreciate any input as to what is used > and > where to get it. > > Thanks, Walt Shipley > > > > provided > Admin. > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:54:58 AM PST US
    From: Roger Smart <roger@smartdrive.com>
    Subject: Re: Brakes
    With the plastic lines going to the wheels we should use the one with the higher flashpoint Kelly McMullen wrote: > > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon. > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31. > > Tom Gummo wrote: >> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is >> RED fluid in the lines. >> >> Tom Gummo >> Harmon Rocket II >> 370 hours and still smiling. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >> <kellym@aviating.com> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >>> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available. >>> >>> Norman Hunger wrote: >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can >>>> small AN fittings be used here? >>>> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother. >>>> Is this true? >>>> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? >>>> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels >>>> and brakes? Do they work better? >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html >>>> >>>> Who makes the best tires? >>>> >>>> Thanks for your support.... >>>> Norman Hunger >>>> RV6A Delta BC >>>> Do not archive >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:33:11 AM PST US
    From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
    Subject: Re: LED Interior Lights
    www.Superbrightleds.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Hadley Heinrichs To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:46 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: LED Interior Lights Pep Boys! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Norman Hunger <norman96@telus.net> To: RV List <rv-list@matronics.com> Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 7:51:58 PM Subject: RV-List: LED Interior Lights Hi everybody, I'm looking for suggestions on interior LED lighting. I'm after some small fixtures to light the floor and luggage areas. Also looking for some kind of LED strip light to do the panel. Any ideas on sources? Thanks, Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC Nov 17-09 - 10


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:13:18 AM PST US
    From: dave.gribble@mchsi.com
    Subject: Re: Brakes
    Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source / approximate $$ of the thicker rotors? Thanks again, dave -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> > > > I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 with > the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid > fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the > incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of > water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the > incident. > > I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew a > chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless steel > braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had double > the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the > same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass. > > The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade > even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last > longer. > > But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and > probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire. > > YMMV > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes > > > And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps. > > Pax, > > Ed Holyoke > > Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: > > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has > > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon. > > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic > > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest > > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas > > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have > > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken > > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard > > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31. > > > > Tom Gummo wrote: > >> > >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is > >> RED fluid in the lines. > >> > >> Tom Gummo > >> Harmon Rocket II > >> 370 hours and still smiling. > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" > >> <kellym@aviating.com> > >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM > >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes > >> > >> > >>> > >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ > >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little > >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available. > >>> > >>> Norman Hunger wrote: > >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and > >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white > >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can > >>>> small AN fittings be used here? > >>>> > >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot > >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt > >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt > >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces > >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother. > >>>> Is this true? > >>>> > >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy > >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders > >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? > >>>> > >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are > >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels > >>>> and brakes? Do they work better? > >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html > >>>> > >>>> Who makes the best tires? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for your support.... > >>>> Norman Hunger > >>>> RV6A Delta BC > >>>> Do not archive > >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________ > >>> > >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:14:34 AM PST US
    From: Chris Stone <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: LED Interior Lights
    Strip light LEDs in white and colors. Attach to underside of glareshield and windscreen bow. http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=17362+OP Chris Stone RV-8 Newberg, OR -----Original Message----- From: Norman Hunger Sent: Nov 17, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: RV-List: LED Interior Lights Hi everybody, I'm looking for suggestions on interior LED lighting. I'm after some small fixtures to light the floor and luggage areas. Also looking for some kind of LED strip light to do the panel. Any ideas on sources? Thanks, Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC Nov 17-09 - 10


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:54:34 AM PST US
    From: "Panama Red" <panamared505@brier.net>
    Subject: Re: Brakes
    I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system? I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to the plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire brake system? Bob RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ----- Original Message ----- From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes > > Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source / > approximate $$ of the thicker rotors? > > Thanks again, > > dave > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> >> >> >> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 >> with >> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid >> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the >> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of >> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the >> incident. >> >> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew >> a >> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless >> steel >> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had >> double >> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the >> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass. >> >> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade >> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last >> longer. >> >> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and >> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire. >> >> YMMV >> >> Ed >> >> Ed Anderson >> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> >> Matthews, NC >> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >> >> http://www.andersonee.com >> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> >> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke >> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps. >> >> Pax, >> >> Ed Holyoke >> >> Kelly McMullen wrote: >> > >> > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: >> > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has >> > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon. >> > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic >> > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest >> > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas >> > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have >> > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken >> > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard >> > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31. >> > >> > Tom Gummo wrote: >> >> >> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is >> >> RED fluid in the lines. >> >> >> >> Tom Gummo >> >> Harmon Rocket II >> >> 370 hours and still smiling. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >> >> <kellym@aviating.com> >> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM >> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ >> >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little >> >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available. >> >>> >> >>> Norman Hunger wrote: >> >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and >> >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white >> >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can >> >>>> small AN fittings be used here? >> >>>> >> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot >> >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt >> >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt >> >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces >> >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother. >> >>>> Is this true? >> >>>> >> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy >> >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders >> >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? >> >>>> >> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are >> >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels >> >>>> and brakes? Do they work better? >> >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html >> >>>> >> >>>> Who makes the best tires? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for your support.... >> >>>> Norman Hunger >> >>>> RV6A Delta BC >> >>>> Do not archive >> >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________ >> >>> >> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:19:24 AM PST US
    From: "Randy Utsey" <randy@djdist.com>
    Subject: Re: Brakes
    Heavy Feet?? Randy RV-7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Panama Red" <panamared505@brier.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:53 AM Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system? I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to the plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire brake system? Bob RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ----- Original Message ----- From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes > > Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source / > approximate $$ of the thicker rotors? > > Thanks again, > > dave > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> >> >> >> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 >> with >> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid >> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the >> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of >> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the >> incident. >> >> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew >> a >> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless >> steel >> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had >> double >> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the >> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass. >> >> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade >> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last >> longer. >> >> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and >> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire. >> >> YMMV >> >> Ed >> >> Ed Anderson >> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> >> Matthews, NC >> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >> >> http://www.andersonee.com >> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> >> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke >> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps. >> >> Pax, >> >> Ed Holyoke >> >> Kelly McMullen wrote: >> > >> > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: >> > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has >> > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon. >> > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic >> > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest >> > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas >> > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have >> > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken >> > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard >> > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31. >> > >> > Tom Gummo wrote: >> >> >> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is >> >> RED fluid in the lines. >> >> >> >> Tom Gummo >> >> Harmon Rocket II >> >> 370 hours and still smiling. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >> >> <kellym@aviating.com> >> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM >> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ >> >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little >> >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available. >> >>> >> >>> Norman Hunger wrote: >> >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and >> >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white >> >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can >> >>>> small AN fittings be used here? >> >>>> >> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot >> >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt >> >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt >> >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces >> >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother. >> >>>> Is this true? >> >>>> >> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy >> >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders >> >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? >> >>>> >> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are >> >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels >> >>>> and brakes? Do they work better? >> >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html >> >>>> >> >>>> Who makes the best tires? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for your support.... >> >>>> Norman Hunger >> >>>> RV6A Delta BC >> >>>> Do not archive >> >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________ >> >>> >> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:46:17 AM PST US
    From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
    Subject: RV6A Project Resurrected
    Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on the list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together kits have come to prominence but there are still slow builders out there chipping away at their projects. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Hunger Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM Subject: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say hello. I was hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time to time. I was a part of this list many years ago and found it very helpful. I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for about 5 years 2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved into a house with not enough room. I spent years arguing with my city to allow a big garage extension and then over a year building. I've now built shelves for everything and have unpacked all my old building stuff. I'm ready to get back to building. I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport Power. I would like the latest version of a fuel injected dual alternator CS engine that will mount a Sam James cowl and Vetterman exhaust with mufflers. Propeller selection might be more towards quiet and smooth over pure speed. I want to be quiet. I should ready to get the engine within the next year. I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly. Does anyone know what the going price of a hanger there these days? Lease, purchase or rent? Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC Do not archive


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:15:41 AM PST US
    From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Brakes
    Panama Red wrote: > > I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake > fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system? I don't think you've missed anything. And there aren't 'many' RVs having problems. All it takes is a few. Then add those Long EZs, Velocities etc. that basically started the plastic line implementation .... and now you have a few more. From what I know, the problem arises when there's a long taxi with a crosswind .... the brakes get hot, the plastic gets soft, and it ruptures. Have you just dodged the bullet? Who knows. All I know is that it's a weak spot, and I'm going to fix mine. > > I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to > the plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the > entire brake system? I really think that decision is up to you. Do you like to gamble??? BTW, I've already replaced the plastic brake line between the pass and pilot side. I don't understand why, on the high pressure side, he uses plastic from the pass side, then flex (that one I understand) to the firewall, then hard alum to the gear leg and then plastic to the brake cylinder. Linn > > Bob > RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West"


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:19:38 AM PST US
    Subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric
    From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
    I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully installed before and am running into various problems that have me reconsidering things. The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away. Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric easier to install/live with? -- Tom Sargent


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:35:35 AM PST US
    From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
    Tom, I went with the Gretz relocated electric trim from day one. Control is on a hat switch on the stick grip. During my initial transition training, I practiced controlling the elevator with the trim in the opposite direction (probably ought to practice that again as it was quite a while ago). My only disappointment has been the little displays - I've had to replace them a couple of time as one of the internal LED's quit. No other issues, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com> >Sent: Nov 18, 2009 12:19 PM >To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com> >Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric > >I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully >installed before and am running into various problems that have me >reconsidering things. > >The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no >dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive >connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the >electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot >lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away. > >Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric >easier to install/live with? > >-- >Tom Sargent


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:50:24 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Sears" <jmsj@roadrunner.com>
    Subject: Re: RV6A Project Resurrected
    I have a RV-7A lanquishing in my shop, right now. I did get my -6A flying in 1999. It only took about 7.5 years. :-) I know how it is. :-) Jim Sears in KY ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Young To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:41 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on the list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together kits have come to prominence but there are still slow builders out there chipping away at their projects. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Hunger Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM To: RV List Subject: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say hello. I was hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time to time. I was a part of this list many years ago and found it very helpful. I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for about 5 years 2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved into a house with not enough room. I spent years arguing with my city to allow a big garage extension and then over a year building. I've now built shelves for everything and have unpacked all my old building stuff. I'm ready to get back to building. I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport Power. I would like the latest version of a fuel injected dual alternator CS engine that will mount a Sam James cowl and Vetterman exhaust with mufflers. Propeller selection might be more towards quiet and smooth over pure speed. I want to be quiet. I should ready to get the engine within the next year. I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly. Does anyone know what the going price of a hanger there these days? Lease, purchase or rent? Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC Do not archive


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:26:00 AM PST US
    From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
    Subject: RV6A Project Resurrected
    Me too. My 8A has been about 90% complete for at least 5 years now. Terry Seattle From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sears Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:48 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected I have a RV-7A lanquishing in my shop, right now. I did get my -6A flying in 1999. It only took about 7.5 years. :-) I know how it is. :-) Jim Sears in KY ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Young <mailto:gyoung@cs-sol.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:41 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on the list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together kits have come to prominence but there are still slow builders out there chipping away at their projects. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Hunger Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM Subject: RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say hello. I was hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time to time. I was a part of this list many years ago and found it very helpful. I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for about 5 years 2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved into a house with not enough room. I spent years arguing with my city to allow a big garage extension and then over a year building. I've now built shelves for everything and have unpacked all my old building stuff. I'm ready to get back to building. I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport Power. I would like the latest version of a fuel injected dual alternator CS engine that will mount a Sam James cowl and Vetterman exhaust with mufflers. Propeller selection might be more towards quiet and smooth over pure speed. I want to be quiet. I should ready to get the engine within the next year. I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly. Does anyone know what the going price of a hanger there these days? Lease, purchase or rent? Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC Do not archive href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:36:19 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Brakes
    Hi Dave Yes, I did install the thicker rotors on my RV-6A. I really love the solid feel I now have. Since they are twice the mass, the same amount of heat energy only raises the rotor temperature approx 1/2 of the thinner rotors - helps keeps the seals from cooking as well as helping to prevent temps high enough to set off the brake fluid. Aircraft Spruce at one time (and may still) offered a thicker rotor kit #199-93 assembly. However, at the time it was close to $350 and I decided to see if I could do better (did!). The Cleveland/parker part number for the thicker rotor disc is 164-09900. However, I used the Rappco part RA 164-09900 from Chief Aircraft for $84.00 each http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Brakes/BrakeDiscs.html That was the expense 2 * 84 = $168 for both rotors, the rest of the fittings I made in my shop. There were the 1/8" pad spacer described below and the longer aluminum bushings to stand off the wheel pant. At the time I made up some new wheel pant brackets out of SS since I had lost one on the burnt up wheel pant. Now some of the more recent RVs (such as the 8s) have a slightly different brake set up due to the plate gear rod - so this may not apply to them. Otherwise, pretty straight forward. You do have to have a 1/8" (0.125") shim plate to place between the two pad holders to compensate for the thicker rotor for each wheel. If you buy them they cost about the same as the rotors, the cheapest I could find were $84.00 EACH - which I though absurd given the rotors only cost $85 each. So I made mine out of 6061-T6 1/8" aluminum plate/sheet. They will have to be curved on the underside (axle edge) to match the curvature of the rotor - but not a big job. The most critical thing (and not that hard) is to make certain the holes in the plate match the pad holes - you don't want the spacer binding. Took me approx 30 minutes to make both. I anodize them for corrosion resistance. Also, I had to lengthen the aluminum tubes used to stand off the wheel pant attachment bracket by approx 1/8" otherwise the thicker rotor wanted to rub on the bracket. Again, no biggie. I also switched to stainless steel braided Teflon brake lines, they give the brakes a much more solid feel and much less likely to rupture. I personally will never go back to the aluminum lines myself - but that is just my personal viewpoint, thousands are flying with them. Hope this helps Ed http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave.gribble@mchsi.com Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source / approximate $$ of the thicker rotors? Thanks again, dave -------------- Original message ---------------------- __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:39:06 AM PST US
    From: rveighta@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
    Tom, I built an RV-8A with manual trim and an RV-8 with electric trim, and for me I'd go with the manual trim if I had it to do over in another plane. Two reasons: first the manual cable seemed easier to install =C2- and secondly and most important, the manual trim allowed me to precisely adjust trim for any speed. With the electric, preci se trim at cruise speeds was dang near impossible. Just my 2 cents..... Walt Shipley ----- Original Message ----- From: "thomas sargent" <sarg314@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:19:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully inst alled before and am running into various problems that have me reconsiderin g things. The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no d ependence on the electrical system.=C2- I also like the very positive con nection from my hand to the trim tab.=C2- But, (I'm guessing here) the el ectric looks like it's a lot easier to install.=C2- It's probably also a lot lighter.=C2- Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's run ning away. Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric?=C2- Is the electr ic easier to install/live with? -- Tom Sargent


    Message 19


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    Time: 10:50:10 AM PST US
    From: "Randy Utsey" <randy@djdist.com>
    Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
    Tom, I have 260 hrs on my manual trim RV-7 and would do it again as the trim is so precise and sensitive and it can't break (or not very likely)! 1/4" adjustments at the trim knob are all that is required when you are nearing cruise speed and altitude. Randy Utsey RV-7 / N55CU ----- Original Message ----- From: rveighta@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric Tom, I built an RV-8A with manual trim and an RV-8 with electric trim, and for me I'd go with the manual trim if I had it to do over in another plane. Two reasons: first the manual cable seemed easier to install and secondly and most important, the manual trim allowed me to precisely adjust trim for any speed. With the electric, precise trim at cruise speeds was dang near impossible. Just my 2 cents..... Walt Shipley ----- Original Message ----- From: "thomas sargent" <sarg314@gmail.com> To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:19:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully installed before and am running into various problems that have me reconsidering things. The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away. Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric easier to install/live with? -- Tom Sargent _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List p://forums.matronics.com


    Message 20


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    Time: 11:53:48 AM PST US
    From: Mike Nellis <mike@bmnellis.com>
    Subject: Re: RV6A Project Resurrected
    Let me forward my "Welcome Back" as well. I bought my kit in April of '97 and am working on the tip-up roll bar now. Progress is very slow and I got for months at a time without even touching it. I try to keep up with the various aspects of the RV world via this message board (and others) so it's good to see your name on the list again. Mike Nellis > Welcome back Norman. There are still a few of us from that era left on > the list. The traffic has certainly died down as the snap together > kits have come to prominence but there are still slow builders out > there chipping away at their projects. > > Regards, > Greg Young - Houston (DWH) > RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix > Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Norman > Hunger > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:59 PM > *To:* RV List > *Subject:* RV-List: RV6A Project Resurrected > > Hi everybody, I'm restarting an RV6A kit and would like to say > hello. I was hoping to hang out here and ask questions from time > to time. I was a part of this list many years ago and found it > very helpful. > > I purchased my slow build from Van in 1996 and worked hard for > about 5 years 2300 hours. I got to the finishing kit then moved > into a house with not enough room. I spent years arguing with my > city to allow a big garage extension and then over a year > building. I've now built shelves for everything and have unpacked > all my old building stuff. I'm ready to get back to building. > > I have always planned to get my engine from Bart at Aerosport > Power. I would like the latest version of a fuel injected dual > alternator CS engine that will mount a Sam James cowl and > Vetterman exhaust with mufflers. Propeller selection might be more > towards quiet and smooth over pure speed. I want to be quiet. I > should ready to get the engine within the next year. > > I will probably head for Langley Airport when I am ready to fly. > Does anyone know what the going price of a hanger there these > days? Lease, purchase or rent? > > Norman Hunger > RV6A Delta BC > Do not archive > > > > * > > > *


    Message 21


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    Time: 12:58:37 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
    From: larygagnon@aol.com
    Tom, I've done both and I prefer the manual. The electric is very sensitive at cruise but works well in the pattern. I've seen various devices to ch ange the speed of the servo depending on your airspeed but they are expe nsive and add complexity. I'll take the weight penalty of the manual. Do n't forget the size of the mount on the trim tab is different from manual to electric. Larry Gagnon RV6 N6LG -----Original Message From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com> Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 12:19 pm Subject: RV-List: elevator trim, manual vs electric I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully ins talled before and am running into various problems that have me reconsider ing things. The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive conne ction from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot lighte r. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away. Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric easier to install/live with? -- Tom Sargent ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========


    Message 22


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    Time: 01:04:29 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc." <jfogarty@tds.net>
    Subject: Re: Work Bench Cover
    Walt, I have used the light weight rubber mats you can get at Fleet Farm or Home Depot, however, pine table tops are just fine or whatever material you have available. I'm moving my project to the hangar this week and making a few more tables. Good luck! Jim Fogarty RV9a Building ----- Original Message ----- From: rveighta@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:43 AM Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with some sort of protective cover, which I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would appreciate any input as to what is used and where to get it. Thanks, Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D


    Message 23


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    Time: 03:54:50 PM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Brakes
    Hi Bob, Hi Bob, In my case I followed the plans exactly, the apparent cause was fatique of the aluminum tubing which on the old RV-6A kits was bent to wrap around the gear leg to provide some "flex" as brake calipers worked in an out. Mine blew out a chuck of the tubing wall approx 1" long and 1/2 the circumference of the tube. I mean the line did not just break at a point; it fractured and blew out this segment. Here is a photo of the tubing. You can see the long piece of the sidewall taken out. There are several possibilities about why it broke. It had been in use for 5 years and over 250 hours of flying time, numerous landings. 1. Material defect - possible but unlikely after 300 hours 2. Tubing damaged (rock or something) - again possible, but there was no evidence of a dent or scratch that I could see 3. Possibly I work harden the aluminum tubing as I bent the loop around the axis. But, in any case, my nephew was taking a video when the line broke and a fire ball rose above the wing when the fluid ignited - exciting times commenced at that point. That was the same instant my right brake peddle went to the floor and I ended up exiting the runway - fortunately into a shallow ditch - managed to get the prop turned horizontal before hitting it. So damage was limited to my brand new Michelin tire and tube and the wheel pant. I have heard of several similar incidents - few when you consider the thousands of Rvs out there with aluminum tubing - however, take it from me once, is more than enough if it happens to you. Best Regards Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Panama Red Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system? I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to the plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire brake system? Bob RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ----- Original Message ----- From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes > > Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source / > approximate $$ of the thicker rotors? > > Thanks again, > > dave > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> >> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> >> >> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 >> with >> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid >> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the >> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of >> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the >> incident. >> >> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew >> a >> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless >> steel >> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had >> double >> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the >> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass. >> >> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade >> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last >> longer. >> >> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and >> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire. >> >> YMMV >> >> Ed >> >> Ed Anderson >> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> >> Matthews, NC >> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >> >> http://www.andersonee.com >> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> >> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke >> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps. >> >> Pax, >> >> Ed Holyoke >> >> Kelly McMullen wrote: >> > >> > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: >> > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has >> > been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon. >> > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic >> > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest >> > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225=B0 whereas >> > 83282 is around 425=B0. This can be a factor with RVs because there have >> > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken >> > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard >> > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31. >> > >> > Tom Gummo wrote: >> >> >> >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is >> >> RED fluid in the lines. >> >> >> >> Tom Gummo >> >> Harmon Rocket II >> >> 370 hours and still smiling. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >> >> <kellym@aviating.com> >> >> To: <rv-list@matronics.com> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM >> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >> >> >> >> <kellym@aviating.com> >> >>> >> >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ >> >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little >> >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available. >> >>> >> >>> Norman Hunger wrote: >> >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and >> >>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white >> >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can >> >>>> small AN fittings be used here? >> >>>> >> >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot >> >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt >> >>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt >> >>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces >> >>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother. >> >>>> Is this true? >> >>>> >> >>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy >> >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders >> >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? >> >>>> >> >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are >> >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels >> >>>> and brakes? Do they work better? >> >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html >> >>>> >> >>>> Who makes the best tires? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for your support.... >> >>>> Norman Hunger >> >>>> RV6A Delta BC >> >>>> Do not archive >> >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________ >> >>> >> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


    Message 24


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    Time: 04:18:21 PM PST US
    From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william@gbta.net>
    Subject: Re: Work Bench Cover
    Try short mesh carpet (I think they call it berber). That's what I use and it works great. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc. To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:03 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Work Bench Cover Walt, I have used the light weight rubber mats you can get at Fleet Farm or Home Depot, however, pine table tops are just fine or whatever material you have available. I'm moving my project to the hangar this week and making a few more tables. Good luck! Jim Fogarty RV9a Building ----- Original Message ----- From: rveighta@comcast.net To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:43 AM Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with some sort of protective cover, which I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would appreciate any input as to what is used and where to get it. Thanks, Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.aeroelectric.com"'>www.aeroelectric.com href='3D"http://www.buildersbooks.com"'>www.buildersbooks.com href='3D"http://www.homebuilthelp.com"'>www.homebuilthelp.com href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"'>http://www.matron 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/18/09 01:50:00


    Message 25


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    Time: 04:24:03 PM PST US
    From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
    This is a tough trade off analysis, and a lot of it is purely subjective; Here's my take. Cost: the manual is far cheaper Installation: I believe the Installation is slightly easier on the electric but shoe horning that servo in to the elevator is not easy. If the Gretz version is still available, it makes the electric way easier. weight: The electric is far lighter. Space: The manual takes up a bit of space in the cockpit so the electric gets the nod. Feel: This is very subjective to say the least. For my money the manual has a far better feel and preciseness. To add to the bargain you can see what you got for take off or go around. Easier to set, and quicker too. Most pilots don't like the lack of feed back from the electric servo and its slowness. You can get various speed changers and gain switchers. Bottom line is most pilots who have flown with electric trim before can get accustomed to the shortcomings. I did. Safety: Probably the most debated issue. Surely "runaway trim" is a possibility with the electric. It is not a possibility with the manual. I know lots of folks will come after me for saying this, but I don't think it is a significant problem in an RV-6A. First of all most of the dark and stormy night horror stories are about big airplanes with stabilizer trim. On the B-52 it was a real threat. The huge hydraulic motors could drive the huge stabilizer very quickly to a position far beyond you ability to overcome the pitch force with the puny elevator. With elevator trim in the RV 6A. you do not lose elevator effectiveness when the trim tab takes off. For example if the trim runs away to full down (tab up) and you counter it with up elevator, then your effective elevator power is actually more than if the tab were elsewhere. I have tested many times and the elevator force required to overcome full up trim on take off is easily manageable. I don't know how fast you can go and still control it with our using both hands but I believe it is do able. I leave it to Kevin Horton to do this test for us. As for me I installed a pullable circuit breaker for the trim power which is easily accessible. It has never been used in flight. I went with the electric and have had several failures, all broken wires. I replaced most of the wires with mil spec 22 ga and solved that problem. These failures would cause me to lose trim altogether. Basically an inconvenience in the RV-6A. Good luck on your choice.. I like both systems, but went with the electric and have no regrets. My little servo has 2400 hours on it and still works. I used the matronics speed controller and ordered a new improved one after the old one was ten years old, got rained on, and became intermittent. When pulling it out to switch I found a loose connection so it is still in the plane (with a rain guard) and I have a spare if you want to make an offer. ; ). LET THE flames begin on my rant about runaway trim. I would surely like to hear from someone who has experienced it with an RV-6. Denis On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:19 , thomas sargent wrote: > I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable > fully installed before and am running into various problems that > have me reconsidering things. > > The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no > wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the > very positive connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm > guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to > install. It's probably also a lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots > of stories about the servo's running away. > > Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the > electric easier to install/live with? > > -- > Tom Sargent > >


    Message 26


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    Time: 05:41:48 PM PST US
    From: "Gordon or Marge" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
    Subject: Work Bench Cover
    Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with some sort of protective cover, which I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would appreciate any input as to what is used and where to get it. Thanks, Walt Shipley Old timers have used and I continue to use a corrugated cardboard bench cover. It's cheap, usually free, and heavier versions make a good surface for working on. The smooth surface does not retain particulates and a brushing followed by a bare handed wipe makes a clean enough area that you can slide aluminum around without scratching it. Gordon Comfort, N363GC. .


    Message 27


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    Time: 06:31:39 PM PST US
    From: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Work Bench Cover
    Walt, Try kitchen drawer liner from Big Lots, perforated- foam rubber,- brigh t, soft and non slip. Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings N497GS reserved Carlsbad, NM --- On Wed, 11/18/09, rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> wrote: From: rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover #yiv1329106890 p {margin:0;} Guys, on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches covered with som e sort of protective cover, which I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal parts. I would apprecia te any input as to what is used and where to get it. - Thanks,--- Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =0A=0A=0A


    Message 28


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    Time: 07:12:05 PM PST US
    From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
    Subject: Re: Brakes
    One thing I find interesting is how many people know/say that you shouldn't use aluminum tubing for things like primer lines that run between the engine and the cockpit, just for the fact that aluminum can crack when it work hardens...yet at the same time, many people don't believe this is a problem with the brake lines around the gear legs. The gear leg/brake area will flex far more drastically than most engine to firewall lines will. I think it's a no-brainer too....definitely flex lines out around the wheel area. They should give a lifetime of service. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Ed Anderson wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Hi Bob, > > In my case I followed the plans exactly, the apparent cause was fatique of > the aluminum tubing which on the old RV-6A kits was bent to wrap around the > gear leg to provide some "flex" as brake calipers worked in an out. Mine > blew out a chuck of the tubing wall approx 1" long and 1/2 the circumference > of the tube. I mean the line did not just break at a point; it fractured > and blew out this segment. > > Here is a photo of the tubing. You can see the long piece of the sidewall > taken out. There are several possibilities about why it broke. It had been > in use for 5 years and over 250 hours of flying time, numerous landings. > 1. Material defect - possible but unlikely after 300 hours > 2. Tubing damaged (rock or something) - again possible, but there was no > evidence of a dent or scratch that I could see > 3. Possibly I work harden the aluminum tubing as I bent the loop around the > axis. > > But, in any case, my nephew was taking a video when the line broke and a > fire ball rose above the wing when the fluid ignited - exciting times > commenced at that point. That was the same instant my right brake peddle > went to the floor and I ended up exiting the runway - fortunately into a > shallow ditch - managed to get the prop turned horizontal before hitting it. > > So damage was limited to my brand new Michelin tire and tube and the wheel > pant. > > I have heard of several similar incidents - few when you consider the > thousands of Rvs out there with aluminum tubing - however, take it from me > once, is more than enough if it happens to you. > > Best Regards > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Panama Red > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:54 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes > > > I think I might have missed something. Why are so many RVs having brake > fires, requiring the redesign of the entire brake system? > > I have been flying my RV for 8 years with the brakes built exactly to the > plans. Just wondering, should I ground my RV and redesign the entire brake > system? > > Bob > RV 6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <dave.gribble@mchsi.com> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes > > >> >> Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number / source / >> approximate $$ of the thicker rotors? >> >> Thanks again, >> >> dave >> -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> >>> >>> I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about replacing the MIL-H_5606 >>> with >>> the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had experience with a brake fluid >>> fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never realized until after the >>> incident that its' flash point was just a bit above the boiling point of >>> water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel pant an tube/tire out of the >>> incident. >>> >>> I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the right brake line blew > >>> a >>> chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) with stainless >>> steel >>> braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with a set that had >>> double >>> the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. Doubling the mass with the >>> same amount of heat effectively reduces the temperature of the mass. >>> >>> The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit in that brake fade >>> even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more evenly and last >>> longer. >>> >>> But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is the cheapest and >>> probably the most effective in reducing probably of brake fluid fire. >>> >>> YMMV >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> Ed Anderson >>> >>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>> >>> Matthews, NC >>> >>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>> >>> http://www.andersonee.com >>> >>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>> >>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> >>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>> >>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM >>> To: rv-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >>> >>> >>> And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for higher temps. >>> >>> Pax, >>> >>> Ed Holyoke >>> >>> Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>> >>>> If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: >>>> "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is MIL-H-5606. This fluid has >>>> been around forever and works fine, but can be improved upon. >>>> MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and is a synthetic >>>> upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but of special interest >>>> is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of around 225 whereas >>>> 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with RVs because there have >>>> been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs and some have taken >>>> the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, upgrade the standard >>>> MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero Shell 31. >>>> >>>> Tom Gummo wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On the non pressure side, they are nice as you can see if there is >>>>> RED fluid in the lines. >>>>> >>>>> Tom Gummo >>>>> Harmon Rocket II >>>>> 370 hours and still smiling. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >>>>> <kellym@aviating.com> >>>>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ >>>>>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but the website has little >>>>>> info beyond what hose and fittings they have available. >>>>>> >>>>>> Norman Hunger wrote: >>>>>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my long dormant resurrected kit and >>>>>>> noticing the right side optional brake pedal lines are white >>>>>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to do this with nicer lines? Can >>>>>>> small AN fittings be used here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was reading about a brake pedal improvement where the short pivot >>>>>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 bolts. The result is one bolt >>>>>>> all the way across the bottom of the pedal instead of a single bolt >>>>>>> on each side. The better alignment of the single bolt shaft reduces >>>>>>> the possibility of binding and makes the pedals operate smoother. >>>>>>> Is this true? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also read some time back about one complaining about draggy >>>>>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the springs on the master cylinders >>>>>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans wheels and brakes and tires are >>>>>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth while to install Grove wheels >>>>>>> and brakes? Do they work better? >>>>>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Who makes the best tires? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your support.... >>>>>>> Norman Hunger >>>>>>> RV6A Delta BC >>>>>>> Do not archive >>>>>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 4615 (20091117) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >


    Message 29


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    Time: 08:53:06 PM PST US
    From: MLWynn@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Work Bench Cover
    I built the EAA chapter 1000 work tables. About the same time, I found these 2X5' mats at Woodcrafters. They are thick rubber, made for standing on. Perfect fit for the benches. Firm but totally protect aluminum. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 San Ramon In a message dated 11/18/2009 5:50:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, chaskuss@yahoo.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.com> Walt, I don't have a web page. I use carpeting scraps to prevent scratching of aluminum sheet parts. I usually place this on the work bench just prior to removing the plastic coating. This is usually for the dimpling process. I simply go to my local carpet supplier and check out the dumpster behind his shop. Another material you can use is cork sheet. This is used under carpeting & laminate flooring. Home Depot carries it, in case you can't find any in the dumpster! :-) Charlie Kuss --- On Wed, 11/18/09, rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> wrote: > From: rveighta@comcast.net <rveighta@comcast.net> > Subject: RV-List: Work Bench Cover > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 7:43 AM > #yiv2001607845 p > {margin:0;}Guys, > on some of the RV websites I've noticed work benches > covered with some sort of protective cover, which > I'm assuming is there to prevent scratches on metal > parts. I would appreciate any input as to what is used > and > where to get it. > > Thanks, Walt Shipley > > > > provided > Admin. > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 09:59:41 PM PST US
    From: Norman Hunger <norman96@telus.net>
    Subject: Epic Riveting Day
    Today was an epic day in my 13 year build. I pounded about 30 rivets and the construction log says that hasn't happened since 2002. The bad news came later when I discovered I hadn't dimpled the next row of holes to their final size of screw so I had to drill everything out again. Tomorrow I start even further behind as I will now shim it to perfection at the bottom corners. This isn't starting off too good... Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC Do not archive




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