---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/24/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:17 AM - Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... (Matt Dralle) 1. 04:58 AM - Re: CHT update (Ralph E. Capen) 2. 05:05 AM - Re: CHT update (Ralph E. Capen) 3. 05:27 PM - Re: Brake upgrade kit was Brake Fire (Charles Kuss) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:15 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal, or a personal check: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:44 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT update Charlie, I've already done both of these parts as you have suggested. I did them in steps so that I could get the #1 and #3 balanced as well as they are. Thanks, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: Charles Kuss >Sent: Nov 23, 2009 6:56 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT update > > >Ralph, > Have you installed an AN960 washer between the rear baffle & cylinder head on the #3 cylinder? The #2 & #3 cylinders have very thin fins between the head itself and the [front on #2] rear baffle. By installing a single washer between the above mentioned parts, for the bolt that holds the rear baffle onto #3, you will reduce the temp on #3. You will then have to cut down the air dam in front of #1 to even out that side. This should help to reduce the side to side variation you have. See > >http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=31012&postcount=40 > >Charlie Kuss > >--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Ralph E. Capen wrote: > >> From: Ralph E. Capen >> Subject: RV-List: CHT update >> To: rv-list@matronics.com, LycomingEngines-list@matronics.com, AeroElectric-list@matronics.com >> Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 6:22 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> As many of you may know, I have been obsessing a bit >> about my CHT's...to >> get them consistent. >> >> Here's the setup: >> IO360B1F6 >> 9.2:1 >> pistons >> AFP Fuel Injection >> LASAR Ignition with CHT sender relocated to >> allow for testing >> Vetterman Dual Crossover Heater/Mufflers >> SamJames cowl >> and plenum >> Advanced Flight Systems 3400 Engine Monitor >> >> Oil Cooler >> mounted behind #4 cylinder >> Air for both Heater/Mufflers behind #3 >> cylinder >> >> For constant power setting, here's the consistency that >> I have >> achieved: >> #1 and #3 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each >> other >> #2 and #4 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each >> other >> The >> #1/#3 cylinders run 8.5 degrees hotter (avg) than the #2/#4 >> >> cylinders >> >> With the members of the sets of cylinders running this >> close >> each other, I'm thinking that I have the balance (front >> to rear) for each side >> pretty well matched. >> >> I'm trying to wrap my head around what could be >> causing the right side to run hotter than the left. >> Here's some of what >> I'm thinking...: With this plenum set-up, I'm >> thinking that the pressure/volume >> should equalize from left to right. This would leave >> me with not much to >> change to cause more cooling air to go from the left to the >> right - meaning that >> I probably have to live with the differences. >> Alternatively, maybe it's >> not really hotter...the two sets of CHT wires for the left >> side (both equal >> length) are about three feet longer than the ones for the >> right side (again, >> both equal length). Could the difference in the >> lengths of the wires >> account for the reported temperature difference? >> >> I'm pretty close to >> thinking that this is as good as it gets...but I would >> really like to know >> why... >> >> Thanks, >> Ralph >> >> >> >> >> >> >> provided >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:17 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT update Thanks Robin, Good to hear this from multiple sources, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: Robin Marks >Sent: Nov 23, 2009 7:02 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT update > >Ralph, > > As one who has been perplexed by temperatures (RV-10, >James Cowl, Plenum etc...) I would sleep quite well at night with your >numbers. If you are looking for reasons why one bank is different that >the other you can consider the oil cooler asymmetry or prop rotation or >maybe some differences on the lower portion of the fire wall forward >making exit air asymmetrical or you can put some of this on the sensors >ability to resolve these very small differences in relative temperature. >As far as the "pressure volume equalizing left to right" maybe yes, >maybe no. I suspect proving this may be very difficult w/o extensive R&D >for what benefit? Cutting the difference in half so you are within 4 >degrees left/right. I tend to think of the air under the Cowl/Plenum as >a frantic tumbling & crashing of molecules with a large amount of air >reversing course and exiting out the front of the cowl. It is not a >smooth aerodynamic "flow through" environment under the hood. I think >even with your numbers you can retain bragging rights over 99% of >aircraft flying today. > >An alternative solution is to revert back to a single CHT/EGT probe and >consider them all the same. Wa-la perfect balance! EFIS = Eliminate >Further Ignorance Systems > > > >Well done, > >Robin > > > >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 3:23 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com; LycomingEngines-list@matronics.com; >AeroElectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: CHT update > > > >As many of you may know, I have been obsessing a bit about my CHT's...to >get them consistent. > >Here's the setup: >IO360B1F6 >9.2:1 pistons >AFP Fuel Injection >LASAR Ignition with CHT sender relocated to allow for testing >Vetterman Dual Crossover Heater/Mufflers >SamJames cowl and plenum >Advanced Flight Systems 3400 Engine Monitor > >Oil Cooler mounted behind #4 cylinder >Air for both Heater/Mufflers behind #3 cylinder > >For constant power setting, here's the consistency that I have achieved: >#1 and #3 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other >#2 and #4 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other >The #1/#3 cylinders run 8.5 degrees hotter (avg) than the #2/#4 >cylinders > >With the members of the sets of cylinders running this close each other, >I'm thinking that I have the balance (front to rear) for each side >pretty well matched. > >I'm trying to wrap my head around what could be causing the right side >to run hotter than the left. Here's some of what I'm thinking...: With >this plenum set-up, I'm thinking that the pressure/volume should >equalize from left to right. This would leave me with not much to >change to cause more cooling air to go from the left to the right - >meaning that I probably have to live with the differences. >Alternatively, maybe it's not really hotter...the two sets of CHT wires >for the left side (both equal length) are about three feet longer than >the ones for the right side (again, both equal length). Could the >difference in the lengths of the wires account for the reported >temperature difference? > >I'm pretty close to thinking that this is as good as it gets...but I >would really like to know why... > >Thanks, >Ralph > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:20 PM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: RV-List: Re: Brake upgrade kit was Brake Fire Dave, I'm not Ed, but I'd be happy to "play" him on TV! :-) Cleveland's HD brake kit upgrade is: #199-093 Both ACS and Wicks carry this upgrade kit. This consists of 2 rotors (.300" thick), two spacers for the calipers, longer bolts, washers and a new set of pad linings. The stock rotors are 3/16" thick. I felt the cost was high for what you get. I found a Long Eze builder who had a left over set of NOS [new old stock] Cleveland 5:00 X 5 wheels [same as all 1 & 2 place RVs use] with .375" thick brake rotors. He had stored the wheel/rotor assemblies with the rotor facing the bottom of the cardboard box. Because of this, the outside face of both rotors were rusty. I sold the extra wheels, resurfaced the rotors by removing 1/16" off the outer face. This gave me two 5/16" [.312"] rotors. I made the spacers myself, in under half an hour out of .125" thick 6061-T6 plate. I reassembled the calipers using longer bolts with the home made spacers installed between the two halves of the calipers. Everything worked out great because my new rotors are 1/8" thicker than stock. The spacers I made are also 1/8" thick. You will need a set of transfer punches to accurately locate the bolt holes into the spacers. You can borrow these from a machinist buddy or buy a set at Harbor Freight. See http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3577 I can provide some photos of my modified calipers, if needed. I sold the wheels for what the wheels/rotors cost me, so the modification was a freebie for me. Charlie Kuss PS The Long Eze guys decided long ago that Cleveland brakes were no good. They all purchased Matco wheels/brakes. I found mine by posting a WTB ad on http://forum.canardaviation.com/ I got 10 guys wanting to sell me their left over Cleveland stuff. --- On Wed, 11/18/09, dave.gribble@mchsi.com wrote: > From: dave.gribble@mchsi.com > Subject: Re: Brake Fire wasRV-List: Brakes > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 10:08 AM > > Hi Ed - thanks for posting.... can you post the part number > / source / approximate $$ of the thicker rotors? > > Thanks again, > > dave > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Ed Anderson" > > > > > > I whole heartedly agree with Ed Holyoke about > replacing the MIL-H_5606 with > > the Mil-H-8328. Being one of those who had > experience with a brake fluid > > fire while using the older MIL-H_5606, I never > realized until after the > > incident that its' flash point was just a bit above > the boiling point of > > water. Fortunately I only lost a wheel > pant an tube/tire out of the > > incident. > > > > I also replace the aluminum tubes ( the side of the > right brake line blew a > > chunk out and sprayed the hot rotor with brake fluid) > with stainless steel > > braided brake lines and replace the brake rotors with > a set that had double > > the thickness of the standard RV brake rotor. > Doubling the mass with the > > same amount of heat effectively reduces the > temperature of the mass. > > > > The thicker rotors provided an unexpected side benefit > in that brake fade > > even after a hard stop is gone and the pads wear more > evenly and last > > longer. > > > > But, of all my changes the switch to the MIL-H-8328 is > the cheapest and > > probably the most effective in reducing probably of > brake fluid fire. > > > > YMMV > > > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:36 AM > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes > > > > > > And Viton O-rings at the calipers. They're rated for > higher temps. > > > > Pax, > > > > Ed Holyoke > > > > Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > > > > > If you mean Mil 5606, consider an improvement: > > > "Standard" brake fluid for GA aircraft is > MIL-H-5606. This fluid has > > > been around forever and works fine, but can be > improved upon. > > > MIL-H-83282 was introduced a few years back and > is a synthetic > > > upgrade. It performs better in every regard, but > of special interest > > > is the flash point. 5606 has a flash point of > around 225 whereas > > > 83282 is around 425. This can be a factor with > RVs because there have > > > been several reported cases of brake fires on RVs > and some have taken > > > the whole aircraft with it. Do yourself a favor, > upgrade the standard > > > MIL-H-5606 to MIL-H-83282: Royco 782 or Aero > Shell 31. > > > > > > Tom Gummo wrote: > > > >> > > >> On the non pressure side, they are nice as > you can see if there is > > >> RED fluid in the lines. > > >> > > >> Tom Gummo > > >> Harmon Rocket II > > >> 370 hours and still smiling. > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly > McMullen" > > >> > > >> To: > > >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:32 PM > > >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakes > > >> > > >> > McMullen > > >>> > > >>> http://www.bonacoinc.com/ > > >>> I believe they have kits for your RV, but > the website has little > > >>> info beyond what hose and fittings they > have available. > > >>> > > >>> Norman Hunger wrote: > > >>>> Hi everybody, I'm poking around my > long dormant resurrected kit and > > >>>> noticing the right side optional > brake pedal lines are white > > >>>> plastic. Does any one sell a kit to > do this with nicer lines? Can > > >>>> small AN fittings be used here? > > >>>> > > >>>> I was reading about a brake pedal > improvement where the short pivot > > >>>> point bolts are replaced with AN3-60 > bolts. The result is one bolt > > >>>> all the way across the bottom of the > pedal instead of a single bolt > > >>>> on each side. The better alignment of > the single bolt shaft reduces > > >>>> the possibility of binding and makes > the pedals operate smoother. > > >>>> Is this true? > > >>>> > > >>>> I also read some time back about one > complaining about draggy > > >>>> brakes and the need to upgrade the > springs on the master cylinders > > >>>> for stronger ones. Is this true? > > >>>> > > >>>> And what about the brakes? My Vans > wheels and brakes and tires are > > >>>> now about ten years old. Is it worth > while to install Grove wheels > > >>>> and brakes? Do they work better? > > >>>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/56-1a.html > > >>>> > > >>>> Who makes the best tires? > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks for your support.... > > >>>> Norman Hunger > > >>>> RV6A Delta BC > > >>>> Do not archive > > >>>> Nov 17-09 - 15 > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, version of virus > > >>> signature database 4615 (20091117) > __________ > > >>> > > >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus signature > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lists This Month -- > Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) > Raiser. Click on > out more about > Gifts provided > www.aeroelectric.com > www.buildersbooks.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.