---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/30/10: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (Bob Collins) 2. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (Ralph & Maria Finch) 3. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (Charles Ennis) 4. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (larygagnon@aol.com) 5. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (John D.) 6. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (RobHickman@aol.com) 7. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (HCRV6@comcast.net) 8. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (Robin Marks) 9. 07:08 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... (fiveonepw@aol.com) 10. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. (Dave Saylor) 11. 09:58 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 04/29/10 (ronald vandervort) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:27 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. I detect a slight inclination in this thread to figure out how to get around the obvious rules on this. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but if that's you.... please...please... please... don't ruin this for the rest of us. It only takes one person to crash and the rest of us own very expensive paperweights. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:36 PM PST US From: "Ralph & Maria Finch" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. No, not me anyway. I was genuinely curious about the flight test period. I haven't studied what's supposed to occur during the 20 or 40 hours, but I know it's more than boring circles in the sky.and I think one person to fly, and one to monitor instruments and collect data points, is perfectly valid, at least for some of the hours. RF From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. I detect a slight inclination in this thread to figure out how to get around the obvious rules on this. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but if that's you.... please...please... please... don't ruin this for the rest of us. It only takes one person to crash and the rest of us own very expensive paperweights. Do not archive __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5075 (20100430) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:26 PM PST US From: Charles Ennis Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. It would =22seem=22 to be perfectly valid=2C and probably is=2E=2E=2E=2E but not in the eyes of the FAA=2E In my experiance during the first flig ht=2C circling the airport=2C one set of eyes on the guages is enough=2E It=27s amazing how much attention you pay when all those unknowns might rear their heads=2E Having said that=2C the first flight in your pride and joy should NOT be your first flight in an RV=2E Please=2C please=2C get 4=2C 5 or 6 hours training in an RV before you make your first fligh t in your homebuilt=2E THAT IS NOT THE TIME TO BECOME FAMILIAR WITH AN R V=27s HANDLING AND LANDING CHARACTERISTICS=2E Most of the engine questio ns can be investigated and attended to during ground runs and taxi-ing ( is that a word=3F) The other instruments=2C radios and bells and whistl es can be checked during later flights more or less at your leisure=2C a fter you have discovered and learned any unexpected handling or landing quirks=2E 20 or 40 hours seems to be a long amount of time until you get into it=2E=2E=2Eyou will stay busy and learn about that machine you=27v e built=2E Sorry to be so long winded=2C hope I=27ve helped=2E Do not archive=2E Subject=3A RE=3A RV-List=3A RE=3A Only Pilot on board during flight test ing=2E To=3A rv-list=40matronics=2Ecom =3E No=2C not me anyway=2E I was genuinely curious about the flight test =3E period=2E I =3E haven=27t studied what=27s supposed to occur during the 20 or 40 =3E hours=2C but I =3E know it=27s more than boring circles in the sky=2Eand I think one =3E person to fly=2C =3E and one to monitor instruments and collect data points=2C is =3E perfectly valid=2C =3E at least for some of the hours=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E RF =3E =3E =3E =3E From=3A owner-rv-list-server=40matronics=2Ecom =3E =5Bmailto=3Aowner-rv-list-server=40matronics=2Ecom=5D On Behalf Of B ob Collins =3E Sent=3A Friday=2C April 30=2C 2010 6=3A49 AM =3E To=3A rv-list=40matronics=2Ecom =3E Subject=3A RE=3A RV-List=3A RE=3A Only Pilot on board during flight testing=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E I detect a slight inclination in this thread to figure out =3E how to get =3E around the obvious rules on this=2E Maybe I=27m being paranoid=2C bu t =3E if that=27s =3E you=2E=2E=2E=2E please=2E=2E=2Eplease=2E=2E=2E please=2E=2E=2E don=27 t ruin this for the =3E rest of us=2E =3E =3E It only takes one person to crash and the rest of us own very =3E expensivepaperweights=2E =3E =3E Do not archive =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F Information from ESET Smart Security=2C version of =3E virus signature =3E database 5075 (20100430) =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =3E The message was checked by ESET Smart Security=2E =3E =3E =3E ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. From: larygagnon@aol.com Two options come to mind, one is a voice activated recorder that you can plug into your intercom or someone on the ground with a note pad who can write down the information for you. Make up a list of things you want to record, EGT, CHT, fuel flows, temps and pressures, etc and just have some one plug in the numbers so you can review them later. Larry RV6 N6LG -----Original Message----- From: Ralph & Maria Finch Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2010 5:44 pm Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. No, not me anyway. I was genuinely curious about the flight testperiod. I haven=99t studied what=99s supposed to occur during the 20 or 40 hours,but I know it=99s more than boring circles in the sky and I think one person tofly, and one to monitor instruments and collect data points, is perfectlyvalid, at least for some of the hours. RF From:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] OnBehalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. I detect a slight inclination in this thread to figure out how to get aro und the obvious rules on this. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but if that's you .... please...please... please... don't ruin this for the rest of us. It only takes one person to crash and the rest of us own very expensive pa perweights. Do not archive http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signatur edatabase 5075 (20100430) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signatur e database 5075 (20100430) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:09 PM PST US From: "John D." Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. Now! This is a good idea. From: larygagnon@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. Two options come to mind, one is a voice activated recorder that you can plug into your intercom or someone on the ground with a note pad who can write down the information for you. Make up a list of things you want to record, EGT, CHT, fuel flows, temps and pressures, etc and just have someone plug in the numbers so you can review them later. Larry RV6 N6LG ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:57 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. Why don't you just download the data from the EFIS after the flight and review it? Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 In a message dated 4/30/2010 5:09:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, altoq@cebridge.net writes: Now! This is a good idea. From: _larygagnon@aol.com_ (mailto:larygagnon@aol.com) Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. Two options come to mind, one is a voice activated recorder that you can plug into your intercom or someone on the ground with a note pad who can write down the information for you. Make up a list of things you want to record, EGT, CHT, fuel flows, temps and pressures, etc and just have someone plug in the numbers so you can review them later. Larry RV6 N6LG (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:23 PM PST US From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. The owner/manufacturer might determine that, but the FAA has clearly taken the position that no passengers are allowed during phase one testing, perio d. Doesn't make a bit of difference to them whether you call the passenger a "flight engineer" or ballast, it's still not allowed. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 680 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph & Maria Finch" Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 6:03:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. Couldn=99t the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a sk illed pilot in type, and a passenger to monitor readings (flight engineer), are both essential to the purpose of the flight[s], which is to perform va rious instrument and flight operational tests? Ralph Finch Davis, California RV-9A QB-SA From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:14 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to Amateur Built Aircraft. http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77 a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/Order%208130.2F%20with%20change%205%20 inc.pdf One of the operating limitations (10) will say: "During the flight-testing phase, no person may be carried in this aircraft during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of the flight ." That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board other than t he pilot. Solo operation only. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 2,346+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5072 (20100429) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ======================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:43 PM PST US From: Robin Marks Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. My thoughts exactly=85 http://www.cirrusreports.com/flights/N110EE/ Robin *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RobHickman@aol.com *Sent:* Friday, April 30, 2010 5:22 PM *To:* rv-list@matronics.com *Subject:* Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. Why don't you just download the data from the EFIS after the flight and review it? Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 * * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... From: fiveonepw@aol.com see: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id =17458 and: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id =4964 =C2- 560 hours, no problemo... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Stucklen, Frederic W <stucklfw@westinghouse.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:58 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... Matt,=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-One other comment. Be sure that your brake pedals are not the cause of the problem.If the br ake pedal hinge points have been over tightened, the result will be that thebrakes will always drag. I've seen this on several RV's. The solution is to pull allthe cotter keys on the brake pedals, loosen the castle nuts until the joints rattle,and re-install new cotter keys. =C2-The interna l spring on the master cylinders aren't very strong, and anybinding of the peddle joints will result in the master cylinder plunger not fullyreturni ng to the relaxed position. This results in brake drag that can turn yourd isks cherry red... Your plane should taxi on tarmac with as little as 900 RPM's. Ifit doesn't, then your brakes are dragging..=C2- Fred StucklenRV-7A N924RV=C2- 365 Hrs Flying to Alaska in JuneRV-6A N926RV =C2- 875 Hrs (Sold)RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold)=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2---- On Wed, 4/28/10, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> From: Matt Dra lle <dralle@matronics.com>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > Subjec t: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)...=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- > To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7-l ist@matronics.com=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > Date: Wednesday, Apri l 28, 2010, 12:29 AM=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-> On the third taxi test, I headed out to the main ru nway at=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > Livermore, 25R and ask the towe r for a high-speed taxi test=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > with no ta ke off. It was approved as requested and=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > ; went great. There was about a 15-20 knot head wind at=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- > about 270 which made it even more fun. The RV-8=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2- > handled great and it was definitely ready to ta ke off.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > I only got to about 1/3 power and it would have taken off=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > with about 1/2 throttle probably. Oh my... What=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > will FULL throttle be like!? Now that's exciting! Be=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2- > sure to watch the Part 2 of this video because as the music =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > gets more intense, so does the testing !=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-& gt; Third Taxi Test - Part 1=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2->=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- http://www.youtube .com/MattsRV8?v=pnz31m6aVEQ=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> After the taxi back on the regular taxi way, the tower=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- > offered to let me run back the other direction on the=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > runway! I wasn't sure that's really what he was=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > suggesting and I had to verify that's what he really meant.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > It was pr etty cool and saved a lot of time. With the 15-20=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- > knot tailwind, though, I probably would have been better off =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > just using the taxi way. Now you'll no tice the music is=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > getting a bit more in tense. Be sure to watch Part 3=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > because that's where this taxi test REALLY get's=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- &g t; interesting... =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-> Third Taxi Test - Part 2=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=5zheOkSHfX4=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-> As you'll see in that part of the third taxi test, I lost=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > the brakes. As I'm taxing off the runway I noticed=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > that there was smoke coming out of both the left and right=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > sides. At the time, I really wasn't sure what caused=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2- > the brakes to get so hot. But, after watching the=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2- > video a couple of time and recalling back to wh at I was=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > doing, I'm positive that I was dragging the brakes on those=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > down-wind trips. I even remember thinking at one=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > point, "oh, I'm riding the brakes". Doesn't seem like they=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2- > should get so hot as to start smoking, but perhaps it was a=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > combination of being new, over worked, and a bit of brake=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > fluid leaki ng out and hitting the discs. Anyway, my comment=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- > at the end of the video is kind of funny. It wasn't at the=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > time, mind you... :-)=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> Third Taxi Test - Part 3=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2->=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v= 57W-O8905cg=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> After I hosed the wheel pants and brakes down and got =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> th ings cooled off and no longer smoking, I had to push the=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- > plane back to the hangar from the wash rack, which isn't too=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > far, but still kind of a long ways at the end of a=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > day. As I was pushing it back I noticed that there was=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > brake fluid leaking out of the right brake. I pushed=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 - > the plane about 1/2 the way into the hangar and took the=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2- > wheel pants off. Once I got the leaks stopped, I=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > pushed the plane the rest of the way in. It was kind=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > of a demoralizing sigh t to see the brake calipers smoked=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > like that, but it could have been a lot worse.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> A word to the wise - STAY OFF THE BRAKES!!! Its=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > really easy to drag them and this video is a document to=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > what can happen.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-> Third Taxi Test - Epilogue=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2->=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=JlQjRWnbO2c =C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> The brakes were pretty toasted as were the sidewalls of the=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > tires. There were lit tle bits of rubber coming off the=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > sidew all around the wheel. The brake pads definitely=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 - > looked worn down some compared to the set I have on the=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2- > partially completed RV-4. So in the interest of not=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > holding up the test flight progres s, I opted to use the=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > wheels, brakes, and tires from the RV-4 project to replace=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > the smoked components on the RV-8. I'll order a new=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2- > set for the RV-4 later.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> I spent the day jacking up the plane and swapping=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > pieces. I also took the opportunity to remove the=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > rig ht master cylinder and fix the pesky high-pressure side=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- > leak. Here's a video of the wheels, brakes, and tires=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > all replaced and ready for testing.=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> Thi rd Taxi Test - Post Epilogue=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2->=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- http://www.youtube .com/MattsRV8?v=dL92Hwi0xnE=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > =C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-> Matt Dralle=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2- > RV-8 #82880 N998RV=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > http: //www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2- > YouTube Channel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- > Status: Test Flying=C2- ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =============== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:23 PM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. EFIS is my co-pilot... do not archive Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 5:21 PM, wrote: > Why don't you just download the data from the EFIS after the flight and > review it? > > > Rob Hickman > N402RH RV-10 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:55 PM PST US From: ronald vandervort Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 04/29/10 Plastic wear strip for flaps: I know someone earlier mentioned the most favored type of plastic and it's source. Does anyone know that one? Thanks, Ron Vandervort RV-6 1476 hrs Do not archive....... On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php? > Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-04-29&Archive=RV > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php? > Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-04-29&Archive=RV > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 04/29/10: 18 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:08 AM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (Linn Walters) > 2. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Linn Walters) > 3. 06:26 AM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (Stucklen, Frederic W) > 4. 10:56 AM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (smittysrv) > 5. 10:56 AM - Re: Carpeting Question (Bobby Hester) > 6. 01:04 PM - Re: Carpeting Question (Bobby Hester) > 7. 01:08 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc.) > 8. 01:09 PM - For Sale Garmin 296 (Robin Marks) > 9. 01:11 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (RV6 Flyer) > 10. 01:14 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (Greg) > 11. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Dan Bergeron) > 12. 04:13 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (Bobby Hester) > 13. 04:14 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > (Kevin Horton) > 14. 04:16 PM - Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > (RV6 Flyer) > 15. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > (Ralph & Maria Finch) > 16. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > (Kyle Boatright) > 17. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > (RV6 Flyer) > 18. 07:32 PM - Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > (Todd Bartrim) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:08:35 AM PST US > From: Linn Walters > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > I was under the impression that the single person requirement was only > for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. > Linn > > Greg wrote: >> >> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made it crystal >> clear >> that there are no circumstances where more than one person can be in >> an RV >> during Phase 1. >> >>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual before >>> I'm off on my own. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:08:36 AM PST US > From: Linn Walters > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > I'd give that a big 'yes'. If the pedals are a little tight, then the > master cylinder can't relax enough to clear the port and let the fluid > flow back upstream. I like your solution! > Linn > > > smittysrv wrote: >> >> I haven't finished my RV, so I don't have any advice from personal >> experience, > but I do have a question. If the brakes stayed engaged, even after > taking your > foot off the pedals, would springs (like the ones I put in) help? >> >> http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=589 >> >> Smitty >> >> -------- >> Smittys RV-9A >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296035#296035 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:26:11 AM PST US > From: "Stucklen, Frederic W" > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > Matt, > > > One other comment. Be sure that your brake pedals are not the cause > of th > e problem. > > If the brake pedal hinge points have been over tightened, the result > will b > e that the > > brakes will always drag. I've seen this on several RV's. The solution > is to > pull all > > the cotter keys on the brake pedals, loosen the castle nuts until the > joint > s rattle, > > and re-install new cotter keys. > > The internal spring on the master cylinders aren't very strong, and > any > > binding of the peddle joints will result in the master cylinder > plunger not > fully > > returning to the relaxed position. This results in brake drag that can > turn > your > > disks cherry red... Your plane should taxi on tarmac with as little as > 900 > RPM's. If > > it doesn't, then your brakes are dragging..... > > > Fred Stucklen > > RV-7A N924RV 365 Hrs Flying to Alaska in June > > RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold) > > RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold) > > > --- On Wed, 4/28/10, Matt Dralle > matronics.com>> wrote: > > >> From: Matt Dralle >> > >> Subject: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > >> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@ > matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com > >> Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 12:29 AM > >> > >> On the third taxi test, I headed out to the main runway at > >> Livermore, 25R and ask the tower for a high-speed taxi test > >> with no take off. It was approved as requested and > >> went great. There was about a 15-20 knot head wind at > >> about 270 which made it even more fun. The RV-8 > >> handled great and it was definitely ready to take off. > >> I only got to about 1/3 power and it would have taken off > >> with about 1/2 throttle probably. Oh my... What > >> will FULL throttle be like!? Now that's exciting! Be > >> sure to watch the Part 2 of this video because as the music > >> gets more intense, so does the testing! > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 1 > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=pnz31m6aVEQ > >> > >> > >> After the taxi back on the regular taxi way, the tower > >> offered to let me run back the other direction on the > >> runway! I wasn't sure that's really what he was > >> suggesting and I had to verify that's what he really meant. > >> It was pretty cool and saved a lot of time. With the 15-20 > >> knot tailwind, though, I probably would have been better off > >> just using the taxi way. Now you'll notice the music is > >> getting a bit more intense. Be sure to watch Part 3 > >> because that's where this taxi test REALLY get's > >> interesting... > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 2 > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=5zheOkSHfX4 > >> > >> > >> As you'll see in that part of the third taxi test, I lost > >> the brakes. As I'm taxing off the runway I noticed > >> that there was smoke coming out of both the left and right > >> sides. At the time, I really wasn't sure what caused > >> the brakes to get so hot. But, after watching the > >> video a couple of time and recalling back to what I was > >> doing, I'm positive that I was dragging the brakes on those > >> down-wind trips. I even remember thinking at one > >> point, "oh, I'm riding the brakes". Doesn't seem like they > >> should get so hot as to start smoking, but perhaps it was a > >> combination of being new, over worked, and a bit of brake > >> fluid leaking out and hitting the discs. Anyway, my comment > >> at the end of the video is kind of funny. It wasn't at the > >> time, mind you... :-) > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 3 > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=57W-O8905cg > >> > >> > >> After I hosed the wheel pants and brakes down and got > >> things cooled off and no longer smoking, I had to push the > >> plane back to the hangar from the wash rack, which isn't too > >> far, but still kind of a long ways at the end of a > >> day. As I was pushing it back I noticed that there was > >> brake fluid leaking out of the right brake. I pushed > >> the plane about 1/2 the way into the hangar and took the > >> wheel pants off. Once I got the leaks stopped, I > >> pushed the plane the rest of the way in. It was kind > >> of a demoralizing sight to see the brake calipers smoked > >> like that, but it could have been a lot worse. > >> > >> A word to the wise - STAY OFF THE BRAKES!!! Its > >> really easy to drag them and this video is a document to > >> what can happen. > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Epilogue > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=JlQjRWnbO2c > >> > >> > >> The brakes were pretty toasted as were the sidewalls of the > >> tires. There were little bits of rubber coming off the > >> sidewall around the wheel. The brake pads definitely > >> looked worn down some compared to the set I have on the > >> partially completed RV-4. So in the interest of not > >> holding up the test flight progress, I opted to use the > >> wheels, brakes, and tires from the RV-4 project to replace > >> the smoked components on the RV-8. I'll order a new > >> set for the RV-4 later. > >> > >> I spent the day jacking up the plane and swapping > >> pieces. I also took the opportunity to remove the > >> right master cylinder and fix the pesky high-pressure side > >> leak. Here's a video of the wheels, brakes, and tires > >> all replaced and ready for testing. > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Post Epilogue > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=dL92Hwi0xnE > >> > >> > >> > >> Matt Dralle > >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV > >> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV > >> YouTube Channel > >> Status: Test Flying > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:56:07 AM PST US > Subject: RV-List: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > From: "smittysrv" > > > Thanks Linn, > > Actually I "borrowed" the idea from Bret Smith: > http://flightinnovations.com/fuselage_3.html > > The other thing I did to prevent the rudder pedals from binding on the > bolts at > the pivot point, was to replace the 2 bolts on each pedal with one > long bolt > (AN3-56 from Aircraft Spruce): > http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=588 > > Smitty > http://SmittysRV.com > > -------- > Smittys RV-9A > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296150#296150 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:56:07 AM PST US > From: Bobby Hester > Subject: Re: RV-List: Carpeting Question > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:04:52 PM PST US > From: Bobby Hester > Subject: Re: RV-List: Carpeting Question > > > I worn gloves while I was building :-) > > ---- > Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY > Check out the latest on my website at: > http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/RVSite.htm > > > Robin Marks wrote: >> My Bobby, you have lovely hands... >> >> Robin >> Do Not Archive >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:08:08 PM PST US > From: "Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc." > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > Fred, That is great information, I just learned that from Tom Berge > this week taking some training in his RV-7a. My bolts on the RV-9a are > too tight. He said, the bolts should spin easily. The bolt is only a > shaft & the cotter key will keep it on. He had this problem on his > RV-6. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing. > > Jim > RV-9a building > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stucklen, Frederic W > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:58 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > Matt, One other comment. Be sure that your brake pedals are not > the cause of the problem.If the brake pedal hinge points have been over > tightened, the result will be that thebrakes will always drag. I've > seen > this on several RV's. The solution is to pull allthe cotter keys on the > brake pedals, loosen the castle nuts until the joints rattle,and > re-install new cotter keys. The internal spring on the master > cylinders > aren't very strong, and anybinding of the peddle joints will result in > the master cylinder plunger not fullyreturning to the relaxed position. > This results in brake drag that can turn yourdisks cherry red... Your > plane should taxi on tarmac with as little as 900 RPM's. Ifit doesn't, > then your brakes are dragging... Fred StucklenRV-7A N924RV 365 Hrs > Flying to Alaska in JuneRV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold)RV-6A N925RV 2008 > Hrs (Sold) > > > --- On Wed, 4/28/10, Matt Dralle > wrote: > From: Matt Dralle > > Subject: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > rv7-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 12:29 AM >>> On the third taxi test, I headed out to the main runway at >> Livermore, 25R and ask the tower for a high-speed taxi test >> with no take off. It was approved as requested and > went great. > There was about a 15-20 knot head wind at > about 270 which made > it > even more fun. The RV-8 > handled great and it was definitely > ready > to take off. > I only got to about 1/3 power and it would have > taken off > with about 1/2 throttle probably. Oh my... What > > will FULL throttle be like!? Now that's exciting! Be > sure to > watch the Part 2 of this video because as the music > gets more > intense, so does the testing! > > Third Taxi Test - Part 1 >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=pnz31m6aVEQ > >>> After the taxi back on the regular taxi way, the tower >> offered to let me run back the other direction on the > runway! > I wasn't sure that's really what he was > suggesting and I had to > verify that's what he really meant. > It was pretty cool and saved > a lot of time. With the 15-20 > knot tailwind, though, I probably > would have been better off > just using the taxi way. Now you'll > notice the music is > getting a bit more intense. Be sure to watch > Part 3 > because that's where this taxi test REALLY get's > > interesting... > > Third Taxi Test - Part 2 > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=5zheOkSHfX4 > > > > As you'll see in that part of the third taxi test, I lost > the > brakes. As I'm taxing off the runway I noticed > that there was > smoke coming out of both the left and right > sides. At the time, > I > really wasn't sure what caused > the brakes to get so hot. But, > after watching the > video a couple of time and recalling back to > what I was > doing, I'm positive that I was dragging the brakes on > those > down-wind trips. I even remember thinking at one > > point, "oh, I'm riding the brakes". Doesn't seem like they > > should > get so hot as to start smoking, but perhaps it was a > combination > of being new, over worked, and a bit of brake > fluid leaking out > and hitting the discs. Anyway, my comment > at the end of the > video > is kind of funny. It wasn't at the > time, mind you... :-) > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 3 > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=57W-O8905cg > > > > After I hosed the wheel pants and brakes down and got > things > cooled off and no longer smoking, I had to push the > plane back > to > the hangar from the wash rack, which isn't too > far, but still > kind of a long ways at the end of a > day. As I was pushing it > back > I noticed that there was > brake fluid leaking out of the right > brake. I pushed > the plane about 1/2 the way into the hangar and > took the > wheel pants off. Once I got the leaks stopped, I > > pushed the plane the rest of the way in. It was kind > of a > demoralizing sight to see the brake calipers smoked > like that, > but it could have been a lot worse. > > A word to the wise - > STAY OFF THE BRAKES!!! Its > really easy to drag them and this > video is a document to > what can happen. > > Third > Taxi > Test - Epilogue > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=JlQjRWnbO2c > > > > The brakes were pretty toasted as were the sidewalls of the > > tires. There were little bits of rubber coming off the > sidewall > around the wheel. The brake pads definitely > looked worn down > some > compared to the set I have on the > partially completed RV-4. So > in > the interest of not > holding up the test flight progress, I opted > to use the > wheels, brakes, and tires from the RV-4 project to > replace > the smoked components on the RV-8. I'll order a new >> set for the RV-4 later. > > I spent the day jacking up the > plane and swapping > pieces. I also took the opportunity to remove > the > right master cylinder and fix the pesky high-pressure side >> leak. Here's a video of the wheels, brakes, and tires > all > replaced and ready for testing. > > Third Taxi Test - Post > Epilogue > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=dL92Hwi0xnE > > > >> Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV > YouTube > Channel > Status: Test Flying > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:09:18 PM PST US > From: Robin Marks > Subject: RV-List: For Sale Garmin 296 > > Seeing the demand for the Garmin 496 I went to the hangar to pull out > my > gently used Garmin 296 in excellent condition with several accessories. > > > Package includes: > > > =B7 Garmin 296 > > =B7 Garmin Face Cover > > =B7 Yolk Mount (plus Bracket) > > =B7 Suction Style RAM Mount (plus Bracket) > > =B7 Dash Mount > > =B7 12V Power Adapter > > =B7 USB Cable > > =B7 External GPS Antenna > > =B7 Fabric Case > > > What it is missing: > > > Attached Antenna (unit was hard mounted in my RV-6A so no need for > antenna-Sorry, can=92t locate) > > Comes with External GPS Antenna > > > Price $625.00 > > Free US Shipping > > > Extras: > > =B7 12V Power Adapter > > =B7 120V AC Charger > > =B7 > > Price $25.00 > > Free US Shipping > > > Robin > > Robin@PaintTheWeb.com > > 805.801.8550 > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:11:52 PM PST US > From: RV6 Flyer > Subject: RE: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > NO Passageners in homebuilt aircraft during phase I test flying. > > > ONLY Pilot in homebuilt aircraft during phase I test flying. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > >> Date: Wed=2C 28 Apr 2010 14:24:43 -0400 >> From: pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... >> >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement was only >> for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn >> >> Greg wrote: >>> >>> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made it >>> crystal c > lear >>> that there are no circumstances where more than one person can be in >>> an > RV >>> during Phase 1. >>> >>>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual before >>>> I'm off on my own. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > ========== > ========== > ========== > ========== >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from > your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T: > WLMTAGL:O > N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:14:56 PM PST US > From: "Greg" > Subject: RE: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > Perhaps Das Fed can provide the reference but there was a formal > response to > a question about "required crew" during Phase 1 and the answer was > made very > unambiguously... Not only No but Hell No. EAA probably has it too. I > think > it might have been from one of their activities or NPRM comments. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters >> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 1:25 PM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... >> >> >> >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement >> was only for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn >> >> Greg wrote: >>> >>> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made >> it crystal >>> clear that there are no circumstances where more than one >> person can >>> be in an RV during Phase 1. >>> >>>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual >> before I'm off >>>> on my own. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:41:24 PM PST US > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > From: Dan Bergeron > > Good Morning: > I had an early brake issue on my RV-7A; they were dragging/over > heating, > although never to the extent I saw smoke. The problem and the fix > turned > out to be simple. It's one of those things Van doesn't tell you. > Problem: > I had over-torqued the fasteners holding the brake pedals to the > rudder > frames and cylinder assemblies. My mentor, an RV three-timer, who > also did > the first flight on mine, saw the problem immediately: Solution: > Loosen > up every bolt/nut holding the brake pedals to the rudder frames and > cylinder > assemblies to the point where they are no more than barely finger > tight; and > I do mean barely, or even less. Obviously you want to make absolutely > sure > you have cotter pins securing the castle nuts to the bolts. The fix > took me > two sweaty, uncomfortable, frustrating afternoons working with a > mirror in > tight, inaccessible conditions. The problem disappeared. > > Dan Bergeron > RV-7A N307TB > 138 hours since first flight on 8/4/09 > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Linn Walters > wrote: > >> >> >> I'd give that a big 'yes'. If the pedals are a little tight, then the >> master cylinder can't relax enough to clear the port and let the >> fluid flow >> back upstream. I like your solution! >> Linn >> >> >> smittysrv wrote: >> >>> >>> I haven't finished my RV, so I don't have any advice from personal >>> experience, but I do have a question. If the brakes stayed engaged, >>> even >>> after taking your foot off the pedals, would springs (like the ones >>> I put >>> in) help? >>> >>> http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=589 >>> >>> Smitty >>> >>> -------- >>> Smittys RV-9A >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296035#296035 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:13:49 PM PST US > From: Bobby Hester > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > The wordage is in your Operating Limitations for Phase I, this is for > the whole Phase I period. > I sure you could find it somewhere on the FAA site also. See attach > jpg > > ---- > Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY > Check out the latest on my website at: > http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/RVSite.htm > > > Linn Walters wrote: >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement was only >> for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn >> >> Greg wrote: >>> >>> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made it crystal >>> clear >>> that there are no circumstances where more than one person can be in >>> an RV >>> during Phase 1. >>>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual before I'm off >>>> on my own. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:14:19 PM PST US > From: Kevin Horton > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > Also, the RV-8(A) rudder pedals are quite different design that those > on other RVs. The pad where the foot presses on the rudder pedal is > well above the pivot point for the braking action, so if you press on > the rudder pedal you will apply some brake pressure - the geometry > guarantees this. I suspect that this design "feature" could > contribute to excess brake heating if you do a lot of taxiing, even if > you are careful to minimize the use of brakes. > > Some folks have modified their RV-8 brake pedals to address this > concern. I am aware of two approaches: > > 1. Fabricate an extension to the foot pad, to extend it lower, such > that the bottom edge of the foot pad is below the pivot point for the > braking action. This allows you to push on the pad without applying > brake. If you want brake you tilt the foot forward to push on the > upper portion of the pad. > > IdeasProducts.htm#IDEA:%20Rudder%20Pedal%20Extensions >> > > 2. Use one long bolt on each side for the brake pedal pivot, rather > than two short bolts. Push on the bolt shank to actuate the rudder > without getting brake. The bolt shank is a fair bit aft of the pad on > the top of the brake pedal, so you need a pretty good forward lean of > the foot to get max braking. The amount of lean forward of the foot > you need can be reduced by fastening something with some thickness to > the aft side of the foot pad. > > Option 2 is the simplest, and is what I did to my aircraft. I found > that I did not need to build up the thickness of the foot pad, as my > feet were happy with the angle needed for max braking. > > Kevin Horton > > On 29 Apr 2010, at 06:58, Stucklen, Frederic W wrote: > >> Matt, >> >> One other comment. Be sure that your brake pedals are not the >> cause of the problem. >> If the brake pedal hinge points have been over tightened, the result >> will be that the >> brakes will always drag. I've seen this on several RV's. The >> solution is to pull all >> the cotter keys on the brake pedals, loosen the castle nuts until >> the joints rattle, >> and re-install new cotter keys. >> The internal spring on the master cylinders aren't very strong, >> and any >> binding of the peddle joints will result in the master cylinder >> plunger not fully >> returning to the relaxed position. This results in brake drag that >> can turn your >> disks cherry red... Your plane should taxi on tarmac with as little >> as 900 RPM's. If >> it doesn't, then your brakes are dragging.. >> >> Fred Stucklen >> RV-7A N924RV 365 Hrs Flying to Alaska in June >> RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold) >> RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold) >> >> >> --- On Wed, 4/28/10, Matt Dralle wrote: >> >>> From: Matt Dralle >>> Subject: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... >>> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, >>> rv7-list@matronics.com >>> Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 12:29 AM >>> >>> On the third taxi test, I headed out to the main runway at >>> Livermore, 25R and ask the tower for a high-speed taxi test >>> with no take off. It was approved as requested and >>> went great. There was about a 15-20 knot head wind at >>> about 270 which made it even more fun. The RV-8 >>> handled great and it was definitely ready to take off. >>> I only got to about 1/3 power and it would have taken off >>> with about 1/2 throttle probably. Oh my... What >>> will FULL throttle be like!? Now that's exciting! Be >>> sure to watch the Part 2 of this video because as the music >>> gets more intense, so does the testing! >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Part 1 >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=pnz31m6aVEQ >>> >>> >>> After the taxi back on the regular taxi way, the tower >>> offered to let me run back the other direction on the >>> runway! I wasn't sure that's really what he was >>> suggesting and I had to verify that's what he really meant. >>> It was pretty cool and saved a lot of time. With the 15-20 >>> knot tailwind, though, I probably would have been better off >>> just using the taxi way. Now you'll notice the music is >>> getting a bit more intense. Be sure to watch Part 3 >>> because that's where this taxi test REALLY get's >>> interesting... >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Part 2 >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=5zheOkSHfX4 >>> >>> >>> As you'll see in that part of the third taxi test, I lost >>> the brakes. As I'm taxing off the runway I noticed >>> that there was smoke coming out of both the left and right >>> sides. At the time, I really wasn't sure what caused >>> the brakes to get so hot. But, after watching the >>> video a couple of time and recalling back to what I was >>> doing, I'm positive that I was dragging the brakes on those >>> down-wind trips. I even remember thinking at one >>> point, "oh, I'm riding the brakes". Doesn't seem like they >>> should get so hot as to start smoking, but perhaps it was a >>> combination of being new, over worked, and a bit of brake >>> fluid leaking out and hitting the discs. Anyway, my comment >>> at the end of the video is kind of funny. It wasn't at the >>> time, mind you... :-) >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Part 3 >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=57W-O8905cg >>> >>> >>> After I hosed the wheel pants and brakes down and got >>> things cooled off and no longer smoking, I had to push the >>> plane back to the hangar from the wash rack, which isn't too >>> far, but still kind of a long ways at the end of a >>> day. As I was pushing it back I noticed that there was >>> brake fluid leaking out of the right brake. I pushed >>> the plane about 1/2 the way into the hangar and took the >>> wheel pants off. Once I got the leaks stopped, I >>> pushed the plane the rest of the way in. It was kind >>> of a demoralizing sight to see the brake calipers smoked >>> like that, but it could have been a lot worse. >>> >>> A word to the wise - STAY OFF THE BRAKES!!! Its >>> really easy to drag them and this video is a document to >>> what can happen. >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Epilogue >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=JlQjRWnbO2c >>> >>> >>> The brakes were pretty toasted as were the sidewalls of the >>> tires. There were little bits of rubber coming off the >>> sidewall around the wheel. The brake pads definitely >>> looked worn down some compared to the set I have on the >>> partially completed RV-4. So in the interest of not >>> holding up the test flight progress, I opted to use the >>> wheels, brakes, and tires from the RV-4 project to replace >>> the smoked components on the RV-8. I'll order a new >>> set for the RV-4 later. >>> >>> I spent the day jacking up the plane and swapping >>> pieces. I also took the opportunity to remove the >>> right master cylinder and fix the pesky high-pressure side >>> leak. Here's a video of the wheels, brakes, and tires >>> all replaced and ready for testing. >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Post Epilogue >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=dL92Hwi0xnE >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt Dralle >>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV >>> YouTube Channel >>> Status: Test Flying >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:16:41 PM PST US > From: RV6 Flyer > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur > Built Aircraft. > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77 > a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/ > Order%208130.2F%20with%20change%205%20 > inc.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase=2C no person may be > carried in this aircraft during flight unless that person is essential > to t > he > purpose of the flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board other > than > the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > >> Date: Wed=2C 28 Apr 2010 14:24:43 -0400 >> From: pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement was only >> for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars > with H > otmail. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid > PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 > > ________________________________ Message 15 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:05:13 PM PST US > From: "Ralph & Maria Finch" > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > Couldn't the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a > skilled > pilot in type, and a passenger to monitor readings (flight engineer), > are > both essential to the purpose of the flight[s], which is to perform > various > instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis, California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:14 PM > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur > Built Aircraft. > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77a > 132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/ > Order%208130.2F%20with%20change%205%20in > c.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase, no person may be carried in this > aircraft > during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of the > flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board other > than > the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 2,346+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > ________________________________ Message 16 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:23:35 PM PST US > From: "Kyle Boatright" > Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > If you carry a second crewman during Phase 1 flight test, an accident > investigator (heaven forbid) or an FAA employee who ramp checked you > would have a lot of questions, and whatever your answers were, they > probably wouldn't be good enough. > > One pilot was enough to do the test flying on most everything with an F > at the beginning of the designation, including nasty beasts like the > F-104. In comparision our RV's are pretty simple, so I think it's hard > to legitimately claim that a second crewman is required. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ralph & Maria Finch > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:03 PM > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > Couldn't the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a > skilled pilot in type, and a passenger to monitor readings (flight > engineer), are both essential to the purpose of the flight[s], which is > to perform various instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis, California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:14 PM > To: RV List > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur Built Aircraft. > > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/ > 77a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/ > Order%208130.2F%20with%20change%20 > 5%20inc.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase, no person may be carried in this > aircraft during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose > of > the flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board > other > than the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 2,346+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5072 (20100429) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 17 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:11:25 PM PST US > From: RV6 Flyer > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > No. Solo flight only! > > IF you were to make that argument of a second required crew member=2C > then > the FAA may FORCE you to always operate the aircraft with a REQUIRED > CREW o > f TWO (2) and NO SOLO. I am sure that you DO NOT want to go there. I > know > I do not want to go there. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > > From: ralphmariafinch@gmail.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > Couldn=92t the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a > skilled pilot in type=2C and a passenger to monitor readings (flight > engine > er)=2C > are both essential to the purpose of the flight[s]=2C which is to > perform v > arious > instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis=2C California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.c > om] On > Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > > Sent: Thursday=2C April 29=2C 2010 4:14 PM > > > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating > limitations that are issued to Amateur Built Aircraft. > > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77 > a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/ > Order%208130.2F%20with%20change%205%20 > inc.pdf > > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > > "During > the flight-testing phase=2C no person may be carried in this aircraft > durin > g > flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of the flight." > > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board > other than the pilot. Solo operation only. > > > Gary A. Sobek > > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security=2C version of virus > signatu > re database 5072 (20100429) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars > with H > otmail. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid > PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 > > ________________________________ Message 18 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:32:00 PM PST US > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > From: Todd Bartrim > > If your aircraft is pretty standard with a standard aircraft engine, > then I doubt you could convince the authorities of the need for a > flight > engineer. In my case I used an alternative engine, which my very > experienced test pilot was very unfamiliar with, while I was intimately > familiar with it, but vastly less experienced as a pilot (student). > Transport Canada completely endorsed my plan to use a two person crew > of > a pilot and flight engineer, which went well. But they were clear that > it wasn't usually accepted. IIRC, in most things the FAA and TC seem to > be pretty close. > > YMMV > > Todd Bartrim > 13B RV9 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph & Maria Finch > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > Couldnt the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a skilled > pilot in type, and a passenger to monitor readings (flight engineer), > are both essential to the purpose of the flight[s], which is to perform > various instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis, California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:14 PM > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur Built Aircraft. > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/ > Order%208130.2F%20with%20change%205%20inc.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase, no person may be carried in this > aircraft during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose > of > the flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board other > than the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 2,346+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5072 (20100429) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.