RV-List Digest Archive

Sat 05/01/10


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:34 AM - one person for flight testing (passpat@aol.com)
     2. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: RV-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 04/29/10 (David Maib)
     3. 07:19 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 1 - Getting There... (Matt Dralle)
     4. 07:27 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 2 - Sessions 1 & 2... (Matt Dralle)
     5. 07:36 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 3... (Matt Dralle)
     6. 08:34 PM - RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 4... (Matt Dralle)
     7. 11:14 PM - Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
     8. 11:22 PM - Official RV-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


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    Time: 05:34:59 AM PST US
    Subject: one person for flight testing
    From: passpat@aol.com
    4/18/2007 8130.2F CHG 3 Page 163 (10) During the flight testing phase, no person may be carried in this air craft during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of the flight. During the flight testing phase, no person may be carried in this aircraft during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of the flight. (11) No person may operate this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire. No person may operate this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire. (12) The pilot in command of this aircraft must advise each passenger of the experimental nature of this aircraft, and explain that it does not meet the certificati on requirements of a standard certificated aircraft. The pilot in command of this aircraft must advise each passenger of the ex perimental nature of this aircraft, and explain that it does not meet the certificati on requirements of a standard certificated aircraft.


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    Time: 06:29:10 AM PST US
    From: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 04/29/10
    I used UHMW tape that I bought from SteinAir. It has worked well. David Maib RV-10 On May 1, 2010, at 1:02 AM, ronald vandervort wrote: Plastic wear strip for flaps: I know someone earlier mentioned the most favored type of plastic and it's source. Does anyone know that one? Thanks, Ron Vandervort RV-6 1476 hrs Do not archive....... On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > version > of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php? > Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-04-29&Archive=RV > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php? > Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-04-29&Archive=RV > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 04/29/10: 18 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:08 AM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Linn Walters) > 2. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Linn Walters) > 3. 06:26 AM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Stucklen, Frederic W) > 4. 10:56 AM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (smittysrv) > 5. 10:56 AM - Re: Carpeting Question (Bobby Hester) > 6. 01:04 PM - Re: Carpeting Question (Bobby Hester) > 7. 01:08 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc.) > 8. 01:09 PM - For Sale Garmin 296 (Robin Marks) > 9. 01:11 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (RV6 Flyer) > 10. 01:14 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Greg) > 11. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Dan Bergeron) > 12. 04:13 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Bobby Hester) > 13. 04:14 PM - Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over > Heat!)... (Kevin Horton) > 14. 04:16 PM - Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > (RV6 Flyer) > 15. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight > testing. (Ralph & Maria Finch) > 16. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight > testing. (Kyle Boatright) > 17. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Only Pilot on board during flight > testing. (RV6 Flyer) > 18. 07:32 PM - Re: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > (Todd Bartrim) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:08:35 AM PST US > From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > I was under the impression that the single person requirement was only > for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. > Linn > > Greg wrote: >> >> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made it >> crystal clear >> that there are no circumstances where more than one person can be >> in an RV >> during Phase 1. >> >>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual before >>> I'm off on my own. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:08:36 AM PST US > From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > I'd give that a big 'yes'. If the pedals are a little tight, then the > master cylinder can't relax enough to clear the port and let the fluid > flow back upstream. I like your solution! > Linn > > > smittysrv wrote: >> >> I haven't finished my RV, so I don't have any advice from personal >> experience, > but I do have a question. If the brakes stayed engaged, even after > taking your > foot off the pedals, would springs (like the ones I put in) help? >> >> http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=589 >> >> Smitty >> >> -------- >> Smittys RV-9A >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296035#296035 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:26:11 AM PST US > From: "Stucklen, Frederic W" <stucklfw@westinghouse.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > Matt, > > > One other comment. Be sure that your brake pedals are not the > cause of th > e problem. > > If the brake pedal hinge points have been over tightened, the > result will b > e that the > > brakes will always drag. I've seen this on several RV's. The > solution is to > pull all > > the cotter keys on the brake pedals, loosen the castle nuts until > the joint > s rattle, > > and re-install new cotter keys. > > The internal spring on the master cylinders aren't very strong, > and any > > binding of the peddle joints will result in the master cylinder > plunger not > fully > > returning to the relaxed position. This results in brake drag that > can turn > your > > disks cherry red... Your plane should taxi on tarmac with as little > as 900 > RPM's. If > > it doesn't, then your brakes are dragging..... > > > Fred Stucklen > > RV-7A N924RV 365 Hrs Flying to Alaska in June > > RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold) > > RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold) > > > --- On Wed, 4/28/10, Matt Dralle > <dralle@matronics.com<mailto:dralle@ > matronics.com>> wrote: > > >> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com<mailto:dralle@matronics.com >>> > >> Subject: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > >> To: rv-list@matronics.com,<mailto:rv-list@matronics.com,> rv8-list@ > matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com > >> Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 12:29 AM > >> > >> On the third taxi test, I headed out to the main runway at > >> Livermore, 25R and ask the tower for a high-speed taxi test > >> with no take off. It was approved as requested and > >> went great. There was about a 15-20 knot head wind at > >> about 270 which made it even more fun. The RV-8 > >> handled great and it was definitely ready to take off. > >> I only got to about 1/3 power and it would have taken off > >> with about 1/2 throttle probably. Oh my... What > >> will FULL throttle be like!? Now that's exciting! Be > >> sure to watch the Part 2 of this video because as the music > >> gets more intense, so does the testing! > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 1 > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=pnz31m6aVEQ > >> > >> > >> After the taxi back on the regular taxi way, the tower > >> offered to let me run back the other direction on the > >> runway! I wasn't sure that's really what he was > >> suggesting and I had to verify that's what he really meant. > >> It was pretty cool and saved a lot of time. With the 15-20 > >> knot tailwind, though, I probably would have been better off > >> just using the taxi way. Now you'll notice the music is > >> getting a bit more intense. Be sure to watch Part 3 > >> because that's where this taxi test REALLY get's > >> interesting... > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 2 > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=5zheOkSHfX4 > >> > >> > >> As you'll see in that part of the third taxi test, I lost > >> the brakes. As I'm taxing off the runway I noticed > >> that there was smoke coming out of both the left and right > >> sides. At the time, I really wasn't sure what caused > >> the brakes to get so hot. But, after watching the > >> video a couple of time and recalling back to what I was > >> doing, I'm positive that I was dragging the brakes on those > >> down-wind trips. I even remember thinking at one > >> point, "oh, I'm riding the brakes". Doesn't seem like they > >> should get so hot as to start smoking, but perhaps it was a > >> combination of being new, over worked, and a bit of brake > >> fluid leaking out and hitting the discs. Anyway, my comment > >> at the end of the video is kind of funny. It wasn't at the > >> time, mind you... :-) > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 3 > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=57W-O8905cg > >> > >> > >> After I hosed the wheel pants and brakes down and got > >> things cooled off and no longer smoking, I had to push the > >> plane back to the hangar from the wash rack, which isn't too > >> far, but still kind of a long ways at the end of a > >> day. As I was pushing it back I noticed that there was > >> brake fluid leaking out of the right brake. I pushed > >> the plane about 1/2 the way into the hangar and took the > >> wheel pants off. Once I got the leaks stopped, I > >> pushed the plane the rest of the way in. It was kind > >> of a demoralizing sight to see the brake calipers smoked > >> like that, but it could have been a lot worse. > >> > >> A word to the wise - STAY OFF THE BRAKES!!! Its > >> really easy to drag them and this video is a document to > >> what can happen. > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Epilogue > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=JlQjRWnbO2c > >> > >> > >> The brakes were pretty toasted as were the sidewalls of the > >> tires. There were little bits of rubber coming off the > >> sidewall around the wheel. The brake pads definitely > >> looked worn down some compared to the set I have on the > >> partially completed RV-4. So in the interest of not > >> holding up the test flight progress, I opted to use the > >> wheels, brakes, and tires from the RV-4 project to replace > >> the smoked components on the RV-8. I'll order a new > >> set for the RV-4 later. > >> > >> I spent the day jacking up the plane and swapping > >> pieces. I also took the opportunity to remove the > >> right master cylinder and fix the pesky high-pressure side > >> leak. Here's a video of the wheels, brakes, and tires > >> all replaced and ready for testing. > >> > >> Third Taxi Test - Post Epilogue > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=dL92Hwi0xnE > >> > >> > >> > >> Matt Dralle > >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV > >> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log > >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV > >> YouTube Channel > >> Status: Test Flying > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:56:07 AM PST US > Subject: RV-List: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > From: "smittysrv" <smitty@smittysrv.com> > > > Thanks Linn, > > Actually I "borrowed" the idea from Bret Smith: > http://flightinnovations.com/fuselage_3.html > > The other thing I did to prevent the rudder pedals from binding on > the bolts at > the pivot point, was to replace the 2 bolts on each pedal with one > long bolt > (AN3-56 from Aircraft Spruce): > http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=588 > > Smitty > http://SmittysRV.com > > -------- > Smittys RV-9A > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296150#296150 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:56:07 AM PST US > From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester@newwavecomm.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Carpeting Question > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:04:52 PM PST US > From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester@newwavecomm.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Carpeting Question > > > I worn gloves while I was building :-) > > ---- > Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY > Check out the latest on my website at: > http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/RVSite.htm > > > Robin Marks wrote: >> My Bobby, you have lovely hands... >> >> Robin >> Do Not Archive >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:08:08 PM PST US > From: "Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc." <jfogarty@tds.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > Fred, That is great information, I just learned that from Tom Berge > this week taking some training in his RV-7a. My bolts on the RV-9a > are > too tight. He said, the bolts should spin easily. The bolt is > only a > shaft & the cotter key will keep it on. He had this problem on his > RV-6. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing. > > Jim > RV-9a building > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stucklen, Frederic W > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:58 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > Matt, One other comment. Be sure that your brake pedals are > not > the cause of the problem.If the brake pedal hinge points have been > over > tightened, the result will be that thebrakes will always drag. I've > seen > this on several RV's. The solution is to pull allthe cotter keys on > the > brake pedals, loosen the castle nuts until the joints rattle,and > re-install new cotter keys. The internal spring on the master > cylinders > aren't very strong, and anybinding of the peddle joints will result in > the master cylinder plunger not fullyreturning to the relaxed > position. > This results in brake drag that can turn yourdisks cherry red... Your > plane should taxi on tarmac with as little as 900 RPM's. Ifit doesn't, > then your brakes are dragging... Fred StucklenRV-7A N924RV 365 Hrs > Flying to Alaska in JuneRV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold)RV-6A N925RV 2008 > Hrs (Sold) > > > --- On Wed, 4/28/10, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> > wrote: > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> > > Subject: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > rv7-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, > 12:29 AM >>> On the third taxi test, I headed out to the main runway at >> Livermore, 25R and ask the tower for a high-speed taxi test >> with no take off. It was approved as requested and > went great. > There was about a 15-20 knot head wind at > about 270 which > made it > even more fun. The RV-8 > handled great and it was definitely > ready > to take off. > I only got to about 1/3 power and it would have > taken off > with about 1/2 throttle probably. Oh my... > What > > will FULL throttle be like!? Now that's exciting! Be > sure to > watch the Part 2 of this video because as the music > gets more > intense, so does the testing! > > Third Taxi Test - Part 1 >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=pnz31m6aVEQ > >>> After the taxi back on the regular taxi way, the tower >> offered to let me run back the other direction on the > runway! > I wasn't sure that's really what he was > suggesting and I had to > verify that's what he really meant. > It was pretty cool and > saved > a lot of time. With the 15-20 > knot tailwind, though, I probably > would have been better off > just using the taxi way. Now you'll > notice the music is > getting a bit more intense. Be sure to > watch > Part 3 > because that's where this taxi test REALLY get's > > interesting... > > Third Taxi Test - Part 2 > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=5zheOkSHfX4 > > > > As you'll see in that part of the third taxi test, I lost > the > brakes. As I'm taxing off the runway I noticed > that there was > smoke coming out of both the left and right > sides. At the > time, I > really wasn't sure what caused > the brakes to get so hot. But, > after watching the > video a couple of time and recalling back to > what I was > doing, I'm positive that I was dragging the > brakes on > those > down-wind trips. I even remember thinking at one > > point, "oh, I'm riding the brakes". Doesn't seem like they > > should > get so hot as to start smoking, but perhaps it was a > > combination > of being new, over worked, and a bit of brake > fluid leaking out > and hitting the discs. Anyway, my comment > at the end of the > video > is kind of funny. It wasn't at the > time, mind you... :-) > >> Third Taxi Test - Part 3 > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=57W-O8905cg > > > > After I hosed the wheel pants and brakes down and got > things > cooled off and no longer smoking, I had to push the > plane > back to > the hangar from the wash rack, which isn't too > far, but still > kind of a long ways at the end of a > day. As I was pushing it > back > I noticed that there was > brake fluid leaking out of the right > brake. I pushed > the plane about 1/2 the way into the hangar and > took the > wheel pants off. Once I got the leaks stopped, > I > > pushed the plane the rest of the way in. It was kind > of a > demoralizing sight to see the brake calipers smoked > like that, > but it could have been a lot worse. > > A word to the > wise - > STAY OFF THE BRAKES!!! Its > really easy to drag them and this > video is a document to > what can happen. > > Third > Taxi > Test - Epilogue > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=JlQjRWnbO2c > > > > The brakes were pretty toasted as were the sidewalls of the > > tires. There were little bits of rubber coming off the > sidewall > around the wheel. The brake pads definitely > looked worn down > some > compared to the set I have on the > partially completed RV-4. > So in > the interest of not > holding up the test flight progress, I > opted > to use the > wheels, brakes, and tires from the RV-4 project to > replace > the smoked components on the RV-8. I'll order a new >> set for the RV-4 later. > > I spent the day jacking up the > plane and swapping > pieces. I also took the opportunity to > remove > the > right master cylinder and fix the pesky high-pressure side >> leak. Here's a video of the wheels, brakes, and tires > all > replaced and ready for testing. > > Third Taxi Test - Post > Epilogue > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=dL92Hwi0xnE > > > >> Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV > YouTube > Channel > Status: Test Flying > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:09:18 PM PST US > From: Robin Marks <Robin@PaintTheWeb.com> > Subject: RV-List: For Sale Garmin 296 > > Seeing the demand for the Garmin 496 I went to the hangar to pull > out my > gently used Garmin 296 in excellent condition with several > accessories. > > > Package includes: > > > =B7 Garmin 296 > > =B7 Garmin Face Cover > > =B7 Yolk Mount (plus Bracket) > > =B7 Suction Style RAM Mount (plus Bracket) > > =B7 Dash Mount > > =B7 12V Power Adapter > > =B7 USB Cable > > =B7 External GPS Antenna > > =B7 Fabric Case > > > What it is missing: > > > Attached Antenna (unit was hard mounted in my RV-6A so no need for > antenna-Sorry, can=92t locate) > > Comes with External GPS Antenna > > > Price $625.00 > > Free US Shipping > > > Extras: > > =B7 12V Power Adapter > > =B7 120V AC Charger > > =B7 > > Price $25.00 > > Free US Shipping > > > Robin > > Robin@PaintTheWeb.com > > 805.801.8550 > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:11:52 PM PST US > From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > NO Passageners in homebuilt aircraft during phase I test flying. > > > ONLY Pilot in homebuilt aircraft during phase I test flying. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > >> Date: Wed=2C 28 Apr 2010 14:24:43 -0400 >> From: pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... >> >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement was >> only >> for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn >> >> Greg wrote: >>> >>> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made it >>> crystal c > lear >>> that there are no circumstances where more than one person can be >>> in an > RV >>> during Phase 1. >>> >>>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual before >>>> I'm off on my own. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > ========== > ========== > ========== > ========== >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more > from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? > ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O > N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:14:56 PM PST US > From: "Greg" <bigdog@bentwing.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > Perhaps Das Fed can provide the reference but there was a formal > response to > a question about "required crew" during Phase 1 and the answer was > made very > unambiguously... Not only No but Hell No. EAA probably has it too. > I think > it might have been from one of their activities or NPRM comments. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters >> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 1:25 PM >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... >> >> >> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement >> was only for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn >> >> Greg wrote: >>> >>> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made >> it crystal >>> clear that there are no circumstances where more than one >> person can >>> be in an RV during Phase 1. >>> >>>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual >> before I'm off >>>> on my own. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:41:24 PM PST US > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > From: Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b@gmail.com> > > Good Morning: > I had an early brake issue on my RV-7A; they were dragging/over > heating, > although never to the extent I saw smoke. The problem and the fix > turned > out to be simple. It's one of those things Van doesn't tell you. > Problem: > I had over-torqued the fasteners holding the brake pedals to the > rudder > frames and cylinder assemblies. My mentor, an RV three-timer, who > also did > the first flight on mine, saw the problem immediately: Solution: > Loosen > up every bolt/nut holding the brake pedals to the rudder frames and > cylinder > assemblies to the point where they are no more than barely finger > tight; and > I do mean barely, or even less. Obviously you want to make > absolutely sure > you have cotter pins securing the castle nuts to the bolts. The > fix took me > two sweaty, uncomfortable, frustrating afternoons working with a > mirror in > tight, inaccessible conditions. The problem disappeared. > > Dan Bergeron > RV-7A N307TB > 138 hours since first flight on 8/4/09 > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Linn Walters > <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>wrote: > >> >> >> I'd give that a big 'yes'. If the pedals are a little tight, then >> the >> master cylinder can't relax enough to clear the port and let the >> fluid flow >> back upstream. I like your solution! >> Linn >> >> >> smittysrv wrote: >> >>> >>> I haven't finished my RV, so I don't have any advice from personal >>> experience, but I do have a question. If the brakes stayed >>> engaged, even >>> after taking your foot off the pedals, would springs (like the >>> ones I put >>> in) help? >>> >>> http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=589 >>> >>> Smitty >>> >>> -------- >>> Smittys RV-9A >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296035#296035 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:13:49 PM PST US > From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester@newwavecomm.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > The wordage is in your Operating Limitations for Phase I, this is for > the whole Phase I period. > I sure you could find it somewhere on the FAA site also. See > attach jpg > > ---- > Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY > Check out the latest on my website at: > http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/RVSite.htm > > > Linn Walters wrote: >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement was >> only >> for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn >> >> Greg wrote: >>> >>> The dual is in a different RV-8 I hope. The feds have made it >>> crystal >>> clear >>> that there are no circumstances where more than one person can be in >>> an RV >>> during Phase 1. >>>> looking forward to that. But I'll have a lot of dual before I'm >>>> off >>>> on my own. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:14:19 PM PST US > From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... > > > Also, the RV-8(A) rudder pedals are quite different design that those > on other RVs. The pad where the foot presses on the rudder pedal is > well above the pivot point for the braking action, so if you press on > the rudder pedal you will apply some brake pressure - the geometry > guarantees this. I suspect that this design "feature" could > contribute to excess brake heating if you do a lot of taxiing, even if > you are careful to minimize the use of brakes. > > Some folks have modified their RV-8 brake pedals to address this > concern. I am aware of two approaches: > > 1. Fabricate an extension to the foot pad, to extend it lower, such > that the bottom edge of the foot pad is below the pivot point for the > braking action. This allows you to push on the pad without applying > brake. If you want brake you tilt the foot forward to push on the > upper portion of the pad. > > <http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/IdeasProducts.htm#IDEA:%20Rudder% > 20Pedal%20Extensions >> > > 2. Use one long bolt on each side for the brake pedal pivot, rather > than two short bolts. Push on the bolt shank to actuate the rudder > without getting brake. The bolt shank is a fair bit aft of the pad on > the top of the brake pedal, so you need a pretty good forward lean of > the foot to get max braking. The amount of lean forward of the foot > you need can be reduced by fastening something with some thickness to > the aft side of the foot pad. > > Option 2 is the simplest, and is what I did to my aircraft. I found > that I did not need to build up the thickness of the foot pad, as my > feet were happy with the angle needed for max braking. > > Kevin Horton > > On 29 Apr 2010, at 06:58, Stucklen, Frederic W wrote: > >> Matt, >> >> One other comment. Be sure that your brake pedals are not the >> cause of the problem. >> If the brake pedal hinge points have been over tightened, the result >> will be that the >> brakes will always drag. I've seen this on several RV's. The >> solution is to pull all >> the cotter keys on the brake pedals, loosen the castle nuts until >> the joints rattle, >> and re-install new cotter keys. >> The internal spring on the master cylinders aren't very strong, >> and any >> binding of the peddle joints will result in the master cylinder >> plunger not fully >> returning to the relaxed position. This results in brake drag that >> can turn your >> disks cherry red... Your plane should taxi on tarmac with as little >> as 900 RPM's. If >> it doesn't, then your brakes are dragging.. >> >> Fred Stucklen >> RV-7A N924RV 365 Hrs Flying to Alaska in June >> RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold) >> RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold) >> >> >> --- On Wed, 4/28/10, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote: >> >>> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> >>> Subject: RV-List: Third Taxi Test Video (Brakes Over Heat!)... >>> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7- >>> list@matronics.com >>> Date: Wednesday, April 28, 2010, 12:29 AM >>> >>> On the third taxi test, I headed out to the main runway at >>> Livermore, 25R and ask the tower for a high-speed taxi test >>> with no take off. It was approved as requested and >>> went great. There was about a 15-20 knot head wind at >>> about 270 which made it even more fun. The RV-8 >>> handled great and it was definitely ready to take off. >>> I only got to about 1/3 power and it would have taken off >>> with about 1/2 throttle probably. Oh my... What >>> will FULL throttle be like!? Now that's exciting! Be >>> sure to watch the Part 2 of this video because as the music >>> gets more intense, so does the testing! >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Part 1 >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=pnz31m6aVEQ >>> >>> >>> After the taxi back on the regular taxi way, the tower >>> offered to let me run back the other direction on the >>> runway! I wasn't sure that's really what he was >>> suggesting and I had to verify that's what he really meant. >>> It was pretty cool and saved a lot of time. With the 15-20 >>> knot tailwind, though, I probably would have been better off >>> just using the taxi way. Now you'll notice the music is >>> getting a bit more intense. Be sure to watch Part 3 >>> because that's where this taxi test REALLY get's >>> interesting... >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Part 2 >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=5zheOkSHfX4 >>> >>> >>> As you'll see in that part of the third taxi test, I lost >>> the brakes. As I'm taxing off the runway I noticed >>> that there was smoke coming out of both the left and right >>> sides. At the time, I really wasn't sure what caused >>> the brakes to get so hot. But, after watching the >>> video a couple of time and recalling back to what I was >>> doing, I'm positive that I was dragging the brakes on those >>> down-wind trips. I even remember thinking at one >>> point, "oh, I'm riding the brakes". Doesn't seem like they >>> should get so hot as to start smoking, but perhaps it was a >>> combination of being new, over worked, and a bit of brake >>> fluid leaking out and hitting the discs. Anyway, my comment >>> at the end of the video is kind of funny. It wasn't at the >>> time, mind you... :-) >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Part 3 >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=57W-O8905cg >>> >>> >>> After I hosed the wheel pants and brakes down and got >>> things cooled off and no longer smoking, I had to push the >>> plane back to the hangar from the wash rack, which isn't too >>> far, but still kind of a long ways at the end of a >>> day. As I was pushing it back I noticed that there was >>> brake fluid leaking out of the right brake. I pushed >>> the plane about 1/2 the way into the hangar and took the >>> wheel pants off. Once I got the leaks stopped, I >>> pushed the plane the rest of the way in. It was kind >>> of a demoralizing sight to see the brake calipers smoked >>> like that, but it could have been a lot worse. >>> >>> A word to the wise - STAY OFF THE BRAKES!!! Its >>> really easy to drag them and this video is a document to >>> what can happen. >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Epilogue >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=JlQjRWnbO2c >>> >>> >>> The brakes were pretty toasted as were the sidewalls of the >>> tires. There were little bits of rubber coming off the >>> sidewall around the wheel. The brake pads definitely >>> looked worn down some compared to the set I have on the >>> partially completed RV-4. So in the interest of not >>> holding up the test flight progress, I opted to use the >>> wheels, brakes, and tires from the RV-4 project to replace >>> the smoked components on the RV-8. I'll order a new >>> set for the RV-4 later. >>> >>> I spent the day jacking up the plane and swapping >>> pieces. I also took the opportunity to remove the >>> right master cylinder and fix the pesky high-pressure side >>> leak. Here's a video of the wheels, brakes, and tires >>> all replaced and ready for testing. >>> >>> Third Taxi Test - Post Epilogue >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8?v=dL92Hwi0xnE >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt Dralle >>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV >>> YouTube Channel >>> Status: Test Flying >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:16:41 PM PST US > From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com> > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur > Built Aircraft. > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77 > a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/Order%208130.2F%20with%20change > %205%20 > inc.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase=2C no person may be > carried in this aircraft during flight unless that person is > essential to t > he > purpose of the flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board > other than > the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > >> Date: Wed=2C 28 Apr 2010 14:24:43 -0400 >> From: pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >> >> I was under the impression that the single person requirement was >> only >> for the first flight. I hope someone will set me straight. >> Linn > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple > calendars with H > otmail. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? > tile=multicalendar&ocid > PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 > > ________________________________ Message 15 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:05:13 PM PST US > From: "Ralph & Maria Finch" <ralphmariafinch@gmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > Couldn't the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a > skilled > pilot in type, and a passenger to monitor readings (flight > engineer), are > both essential to the purpose of the flight[s], which is to perform > various > instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis, California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:14 PM > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur > Built Aircraft. > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77a > 132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/Order%208130.2F%20with%20change% > 205%20in > c.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase, no person may be carried in this > aircraft > during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of the > flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board > other than > the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 2,346+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > ________________________________ Message 16 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:23:35 PM PST US > From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > If you carry a second crewman during Phase 1 flight test, an accident > investigator (heaven forbid) or an FAA employee who ramp checked you > would have a lot of questions, and whatever your answers were, they > probably wouldn't be good enough. > > One pilot was enough to do the test flying on most everything with > an F > at the beginning of the designation, including nasty beasts like the > F-104. In comparision our RV's are pretty simple, so I think it's hard > to legitimately claim that a second crewman is required. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ralph & Maria Finch > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:03 PM > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > Couldn't the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a > skilled pilot in type, and a passenger to monitor readings (flight > engineer), are both essential to the purpose of the flight[s], > which is > to perform various instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis, California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:14 PM > To: RV List > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur Built Aircraft. > > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/ > 77a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/Order%208130.2F%20with% > 20change%20 > 5%20inc.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase, no person may be carried in this > aircraft during flight unless that person is essential to the > purpose of > the flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board > other > than the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 2,346+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5072 (20100429) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 17 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:11:25 PM PST US > From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > No. Solo flight only! > > IF you were to make that argument of a second required crew > member=2C then > the FAA may FORCE you to always operate the aircraft with a > REQUIRED CREW o > f TWO (2) and NO SOLO. I am sure that you DO NOT want to go > there. I know > I do not want to go there. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > > From: ralphmariafinch@gmail.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > Couldn=92t the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a > skilled pilot in type=2C and a passenger to monitor readings > (flight engine > er)=2C > are both essential to the purpose of the flight[s]=2C which is to > perform v > arious > instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis=2C California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.c > om] On > Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > > Sent: Thursday=2C April 29=2C 2010 4:14 PM > > > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating > limitations that are issued to Amateur Built Aircraft. > > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77 > a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/Order%208130.2F%20with%20change > %205%20 > inc.pdf > > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > > "During > the flight-testing phase=2C no person may be carried in this > aircraft durin > g > flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of the flight." > > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board > other than the pilot. Solo operation only. > > > Gary A. Sobek > > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C > > 2=2C346+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security=2C version of virus > signatu > re database 5072 (20100429) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple > calendars with H > otmail. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? > tile=multicalendar&ocid > PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 > > ________________________________ Message 18 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:32:00 PM PST US > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > From: Todd Bartrim <bartrim@gmail.com> > > If your aircraft is pretty standard with a standard aircraft engine, > then I doubt you could convince the authorities of the need for a > flight > engineer. In my case I used an alternative engine, which my very > experienced test pilot was very unfamiliar with, while I was > intimately > familiar with it, but vastly less experienced as a pilot (student). > Transport Canada completely endorsed my plan to use a two person > crew of > a pilot and flight engineer, which went well. But they were clear that > it wasn't usually accepted. IIRC, in most things the FAA and TC > seem to > be pretty close. > > YMMV > > Todd Bartrim > 13B RV9 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph & Maria Finch <ralphmariafinch@gmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > Couldnt the owner/manufacturer of the aircraft determine that a > skilled > pilot in type, and a passenger to monitor readings (flight engineer), > are both essential to the purpose of the flight[s], which is to > perform > various instrument and flight operational tests? > > > Ralph Finch > > Davis, California > > RV-9A QB-SA > > > From:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:14 PM > Subject: RV-List: RE: Only Pilot on board during flight testing. > > > FAA Order 8130.2F has the operating limitations that are issued to > Amateur Built Aircraft. > > http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/ > rgOrders.nsf/0/77a132602a4e1f9a862576b3005d253d/$FILE/Order% > 208130.2F%20with%20change%205%20inc.pdf > > One of the operating limitations (10) will say: > > "During the flight-testing phase, no person may be carried in this > aircraft during flight unless that person is essential to the > purpose of > the flight." > > That means NO passenger. NO Flight Instructor. No one on board other > than the pilot. Solo operation only. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 2,346+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5072 (20100429) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:19:39 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 1 - Getting There...
    The trip to Vernonia Oregon was pleasantly uneventful and rather relaxing, actually. The Flight on Horizon Air was smooth and the plane left Oakland Airport right on time and even arrived at Portland Airport 10 minutes early. I was also pleasantly surprised that the Enterprise rental car establishment at the airport had a brand new 2010 Chevy Camero's in the fleet. I've been wanting to drive one since they came out and quickly exchanged my "luxury car" reservation for the sweet, Silver number seen in the pictures. Its a very nice car. Plenty of power, handles reasonably well although it tends to over-steer in the corners, rides well, and has a "very nice" factory sound system. The system has XM radio support, but Enterprise doesn't maintain a subscription to the service which is a big-old fat bummer in my opinion. FM radio is a jungle; ack. Anyway, back to the trip... It was around 2pm by the the time I got on the road, so my belly was telling me it was time for a refill. I noticed this nice looking place along the highway called Rose's Restaurant and Bakery and it sounded like what I was in the mood for, and it turned out my hunch was right. I ordered a big 'ol greasy BBQ cheese burger that was as big as a mountain and very tasty. They have some awesome looking deserts there too, but I resisted. I don't know why I resisted, mind you... Just as I was leaving, the sun turned to dark gray clouds and then it just started to hail like crazy! It was pretty cool. It was about an hour and a half drive from the Portland Airport out to Vernonia. Along the way, I snapped a couple of pictures of a sweet glider airport by the highway. The green fields with the airplanes in the background was quite a sight. I thought wistfully of the RV-8 trapped in the hangar back at home... Once you turn off the main highway heading towards Vernonia proper, the scenery is quite spectacular. The filtered sun through the various clouds and patches of rain made the trip just that much more enjoyable. Well, that and the purr of the Camero's V8. I'm just saying... I rolled into Vernonia and the Garmin GPS that came with the car took me right up to the front door of the Rockcreek Bed & Breakfast. What a lovely place! The pictures of the interior are the living quarters for the guest. There's just the one bedroom, so I pretty much had the run of the areas shown. The owners live in the back half of the house, but the two areas are divided and so the guest's front half is very private. Patricia Davis, the curator of the Rockcreek B&B was very nice and made sure everything was just right. She promised a big breakfast in the morning with all of my favorite things, so I'm looking forward to that!! :-) If you're coming to Vernonia for your transition training with Mike Seager, you own it to yourself to stay here at the Rock Creek B&B. You won't be sorry. The accommodations are outstanding and the price is very reasonable. Here is their web site: http://www.rockcreekbb.com/ After I got settled in, I drove out to the Vernonia airport and looked around until I found Mike's hanger. I knocked on the door and found him there still and we had a nice conversation and he showed me his Model T restoration project. Very cool! I'll have to get some pictures of it tomorrow. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:27:11 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 2 - Sessions 1 &
    2... As luck would have it, Thursday morning it was raining in Vernonia Oregon. Go figure. After a wonderful breakfast at the Rock Creek B&B, I headed out to the Vernonia airport to meet with Mike Seager at 10am for my first RV transition training lesson. We spent the first hour in the office for some "chalk-talk" all about RVs. Mike went over RV speeds, attitudes (the airplane's, not the pilot's, btw), and other things related to flying an RV safely. It was a very good primer on the RV. By now, it was only raining "a little bit", so we headed out to N477RV, an RV-7, and hopped in. We took off to the West, with a fairly stiff wind. I nice left hand turn and we headed out toward Scappoose. Mike took me though some aircraft handling such as turns and climbs and descents and got me used to the flight controls on the RV. As is typical with most new RV pilots, I was over-controlling some. The air was *really* bumpy and I was really working hard to keep the plane level with all the turbulence. Then Mike showed me how to just let the plane fly itself though those bumps by relaxing my grip and not constantly over-correcting. Wow! That's was a lot easier! We headed over to the Scappoose airport and set up to shoot some landings. There was a "nice", almost 90 degree cross wind there to go with all of the turbulence, so it was quite a work out both as a pilot and on my stomach. I didn't barf, but I sure wanted to... After 6 stop and go landings at Scappoose, we headed back to the Vernonia airport. Mike has been restoring a 1923 Model T Ford and he decided that he was going to take it home for lunch that day. What a sweet car! Friday afternoon he even took me for a ride! Considering they started making Model T's around 1907, it rode surprising well. With the fully enclosed cabin and heater, it must have seemed like a space-ship compared to the horse and buggy that most were still using at the time. The little car has an amazing amount of power. There are a myriad of levers and pedals that must be negotiated to drive the thing. Most peculiar is that fact that the throttle is not a pedal, but rather a lever on the steering column that kind of looks like a turn signal. Mike's also been into Radio Control model airplanes and has a number of them hanging from the ceiling in his hanger. Some of them were simply massive and frankly looked like you could put the family cat or dog on one and take them for a ride of a life time. In the afternoon, I headed back out the Vernonia airport at 3PM for my second lesson. The weather was better, but the report for Scappoose was for even more wind than in the morning. So, we headed out to the McMinville airport South of Vernonia about 15 minutes by RV. http://www.macairclub.com/Welcome.html McMinville is where the Spruce Goose is now stored and there is a large aircraft museum there. The wind was fairly calm at McMinville and so we did about 12 stop and go landings and then headed back the Vernonia airport. BTW, the Vernonia airport has a large hill on the East end of the field and so you have to sort of fly a dog leg around the hill and then straighten out right at the last minute to land on the grass strip. By the end of Friday, I had it down! Mike said, if you can land at Vernonia, you can land anywhere! :-) After the second lesson on Thursday, I headed down to Hillsboro to meet some long time RV-buddies at the Rock Creek Tavern. Don Wentz and Jerry Springer were there and I met a new RV-buddy named Ryan along with his wife and daughter. The Rock Creek Tavern is quite a place with lots of atmosphere and even a live band on a Thursday night. The giant BBQ cheese burger was nothing short of awesome. By the time I got home, I was bushed. The giant, comfortable bed at the Rock Creek B&B felt so good. I didn't wake up until 8 the next morning! - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:36:05 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 3...
    Friday morning I headed back out to the Vernonia airport for lesson number 3. Mike asked me if I'd like to fly the RV-6A this time since it has a constant speed prop similar to what my RV-8 has. The RV-7 we'd flown the day before has a fixed pitch prop. Some constant-speed time sounded like a great idea, so we piled in and took off. I'm really glad that I got some time in the tricycle gear version of the RV as well. I would seem that it would be just like the tail wheel version, but easier. In reality, however, landing and taking off are different propositions and Mike took me though the steps. I'm also glad that I got the training with the constant-speed prop. The angle of decent on final approach is significantly greater with the CS prop and its somewhat disconcerting to be pointing the airplane's nose that far down on final. Its definitely not a flat approach ala a Cessna 172 or even like the Citibrias I've been flying. We flew out towards Scappoose and did some slow flight and climbing turns along with some power off and power on stalls. I was amazed at how far up you have to point the nose on the RV to get it to stall with full power. Way up. I mean WAY up. The stalls were gentle and predictable, but that second stall if you don't get the nose pushed down far enough was a little weird. Other than that, the stall handling and recovery were pretty text-book. We headed over to Scappoose and shot about 8 stop and go landings. Again, kind of a stiff cross wind, but there wasn't too much turbulence so that was good. After that, we headed back to Vernonia and I made a pretty good landing on the grass strip! I didn't get any pictures of the RV-6A we flew today, but attached are some additional pictures of the RV-7 I was flying. - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:34:07 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: RV Transition Training w/ Mike Seager - Day 3 - Session 4...
    By the time the afternoon session on Friday rolled around, the weather was looking pretty good. Still cloudy, but clouds were fairly high - around 3500ft - and the wind wasn't blowing too bad. We got back in the RV-7 and took off and headed West toward the Astoria airport out on the coast. We shot a number of stop and go landings here and then headed out to the Oregon Coastline proper at about 800 feet. I got some great pictures from plane as we were flying along. It was amazingly beautiful and I commented to Mike that there are very few people that have had the opportunity to experience the beauty of the coastline from that perspective. Spectacular. We shot a full stop landing at the Seaside Airport (56S) and then headed down the coast a bit further to the Nehalem Bay State Airport (3S7) and shot a landing there as well. From there we headed back to Vernonia where I managed to squeak out yet another pretty good landing! All toll across the 2 days and 4 sessions, I flew 6.0 hours with Mike and made 34 takeoffs and landings. I have to say that I feel much more confident now in the RV. I absolutely cannot recommend this experience highly enough to anyone who is getting ready to fly an RV for the first or near the first time. Whether its for an insurance requirement or not, you cannot afford to not take the time to learn the specifics of flying an RV aircraft. Particularly if you only have Cessna or Piper time, but even if you have a fair amount of tail-dragger time in aircraft such as the Citibria like I did. The training is invaluable and frankly a must. I also cannot speak highly enough of Mike Seager. What a pleasure it was flying with him these last two days. His years of experience really shows and his calm, yet firm manner was perfect for the task at hand. If you are about ready to fly your RV, give Mike a call and schedule some time to get checked out. You won't be sorry you did. I told Mike as I was handing him the check for his effort, "You know Mike, this was the best money I've spent on my RV-8 project", and I truly meant that. - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Test Flight


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:14:32 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the RV-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete RV-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains RV-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RV-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the RV-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: rv-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "rv-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the RV-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the RV-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * RV-List.FAQ - Latest version of the RV-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * RV-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * RV-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * RV-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * RV-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the RV-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:22:18 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official RV-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the RV-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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