---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/27/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Two cooling questions (N616TB) 2. 08:40 AM - DAR Inspection (philip smith) 3. 09:00 AM - Re: DAR Inspection (Linn Walters) 4. 09:44 AM - Re: DAR Inspection (Mike Robertson) 5. 09:51 AM - Re: DAR Inspection () 6. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: DAR Inspection (Larry Bowen) 7. 07:25 PM - Re: Zenith-List: DAR Inspection (Juan Vega) 8. 07:31 PM - Re: Two cooling questions (Dan Bergeron) 9. 08:59 PM - New Tires - Highest Quality...? (Matt Dralle) 10. 09:35 PM - Re: New Tires - Highest Quality...? (mr.gsun@gmail.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:14 AM PST US From: N616TB Subject: RE: RV-List: Two cooling questions I don't think you mentioned what engine and such you have but here is my situation. RV-6 with 0-360 carb and constant speed prop. I have my oil cooler mounted on the back of the baffle and two cabin heat muffs. My engine ran very hot initially so I tried just about everything to get the CHT temps down. The two things that did NOT add significant help were: blocking off the cabin heat, blocking off part of the oil cooler. I now have a door behind my oil cooler so I can block it as needed. I see vans has a new slider that goes between the oil cooler and the baffle and that looks real nice. I may adapt mine to that. The only reason however is the oil temps are usually very low so I use the door to try to get my oil temps up. It does not add significantly to the CHT problem. I finally got my CHT's to an acceptable level by adding louvers in the bottom of the cowl. I did everything that was suggested and all my baffles are very tight. My CHT's now run in the low 400's during initial take off and climb out. I climb out between 110 and 120 to keep them in the 410 - 420 range. Once in cruise, my CHT's run more about 375 or a bit lower. I wish it was all lower, but can't seem to get that to happen. I would entertain the idea of leaving things the way they are for first flight until you know what your temps look like. Plan a shallow climb as this is where the high temps would come into play if it was going to be a problem. You will soon know what is or isn't an issue. Double check the baffles are all sealing and that will show up after you fly as it leaves marks on the inside of the baffle. Also another area that creates a problem is at the air intake ramps if the air can go around them as in over the top and escape to the low pressure side. Good luck and I look forward to hearing of your first flight. Tim Bryan Frankston, Texas RV-6 (N616TB) 140 hours and counting ________________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent [sarg314@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: RV-List: Two cooling questions The airworthiness inspection my RV-6A will be next week, so first flight will be soon after that. I'm wondering about cooling the engine. The 2 main things that steal cooling air form the engine are the oil cooler and the take-off for the cabin heat. 1- I certainly don't need cabin heat in Arizona in June. If I block off the opening in the baffles that is plumbed to the heat muff, no air will circulate thru the heat muff. Is that OK? Will that stretch of exhaust pipe get too hot? Is that what most folks do in the summer? 2- I did the oil cooler installation on the baffles behind cylinder #4. I used the Stewart Warner 7 row oil cooler, so I expect it to be pretty effective; that is, I doubt it needs the full opening that it has. Will I do better to block off, say, 1/3 of that to start with, or should I leave it wide open and just see what happens on the first flight? -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, ready for inspection. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:05 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: DAR Inspection From: philip smith OK my next problem. You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares at least two other projects in our local area that will be in the same predicament. After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit Built Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years ago who did inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has hung up his hat and no longer does the airworthiness inspections. I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the closest three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern Oregon and Montana - all some distance away. I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do the inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials. What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any ideas of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny southern Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals, lodging, golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this done expeditiously. Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call. Phil Smith 1795 River Rd Buhl, ID 83316 208 543 9270 madriver@wildblue.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:20 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: DAR Inspection Check with the FAA in Boise .... they'll know all the DARs nearby. You should contact the FSDO yourself ...... go there in person ..... may have to make an appointment ..... but YOU should get the word from the horses mouth. If they refuse to inspect your airplane, then you have two choices .... use the DAR they recommend ..... or write the office of your local congressman and explain your plight. The last thing the FAA wants is heat from above. The FAA is tasked with the job of inspecting homebuilts .... but they've subbed the responsibility to DARs which doesn't entirely let them off the hook. We've had two people recently get their planes inspected ..... one was put off (we're too busy, contact this DAR) but they finally came over. He made a stink (and wasted a lot of time) to get his Sonex inspected but they finally came over. The inspection was a real nit-pick, and the second trip got his certificate. Last wed, after a 2 week delay, the FSDO inspected an RV-7 in a half hour, and issued a certificate. So, you may have to wait 'till the 'schedule' opens up (or apply pressure) or get a local DAR. But, first I'd do a face-to-face with the FSDO people. In the case of the -7 above, the FSDO asked for some paperwork to be on file prior to the inspection. I'll ask what they were if you need me to. Linn PS I was born in Boise. Left when I was a toddler. philip smith wrote: > OK my next problem. > > You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending > this to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares > at least two other projects in our local area that will be in the same > predicament. > > After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit > Built Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years > ago who did inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has > hung up his hat and no longer does the airworthiness inspections. > > I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the > closest three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern > Oregon and Montana - all some distance away. > > I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do > the inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials. > > What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any > ideas of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny > southern Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked > meals, lodging, golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this > done expeditiously. > > Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call. > > Phil Smith > 1795 River Rd > Buhl, ID 83316 > > 208 543 9270 > > madriver@wildblue.com > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:59 AM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: DAR Inspection Phil=2C Go talk to the FSDO there in Boise. Time permitting they will do the inspe ction. I know the guys there (I helped train the assistant manager in Amat eur-Builts=2C and he is building an RV-4) and they love to inspect them=2C but this time of year is very hard on us inspectors with all the inspection s we have to do. For example=2C I have been on the road 3 of the last 4 we eks doing inspections. If they can't get to you in a time-frame you want I have a couple of recommendations. One is Mike Dehate=2C in Prineville=2C O R=2C and the other is Tom Willis=2C in Sandpoint=2C ID. Tom has a Bonanza and just looks for an excuse to fly it somewhere. Hopefully this info will help. Mike Robertson Das Fed Subject: RV-List: DAR Inspection From: madriver@wildblue.net @matronics.com OK my next problem. You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares at least two other projects in our local area that will be in the same predicament. After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit Built Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years ago who di d inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has hung up his hat and no longer does the airworthiness inspections. I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the closest t hree I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area=2C Eastern Oregon and Mont ana - all some distance away. I have been told=2C but not checked=2C the FAA office in Boise does not do the inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials. What to do=2C what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any idea s of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny southern I daho=2C would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals=2C lodging =2C golf=2C trout fishing just about anything to get this done expeditiousl y. Your thoughts please=2C drop an email or give me a call. Phil Smith 1795 River Rd Buhl=2C ID 83316 208 543 9270 madriver@wildblue.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:57 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: DAR Inspection Are you talking about Russ Graves? ----- Original Message Mark Rose Jerome----- From: philip smith To: RV-List@matronics.com ; RotaxEngines-List@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: RV-List: DAR Inspection OK my next problem. You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares at least two other projects in our local area that will be in the same predicament. After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit Built Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years ago who did inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has hung up his hat and no longer does the airworthiness inspections. I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the closest three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern Oregon and Montana - all some distance away. I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do the inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials. What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any ideas of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny southern Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals, lodging, golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this done expeditiously. Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call. Phil Smith 1795 River Rd Buhl, ID 83316 208 543 9270 madriver@wildblue.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: DAR Inspection From: Larry Bowen Tom had the hangar beside me at 8A7 while he was in NC. Good guy. __ Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Jun 27, 2010 12:46 PM, "Mike Robertson" wrote: Phil, Go talk to the FSDO there in Boise. Time permitting they will do the inspection. I know the guys there (I helped train the assistant manager in Amateur-Builts, and he is building an RV-4) and they love to inspect them, but this time of year is very hard on us inspectors with all the inspections we have to do. For example, I have been on the road 3 of the last 4 weeks doing inspections. If they can't get to you in a time-frame you want I have a couple of recommendations. One is Mike Dehate, in Prineville, OR, and the other is Tom Willis, in Sandpoint, ID. Tom has a Bonanza and just looks for an excuse to fly it somewhere. Hopefully this info will help. Mike Robertson Das Fed ------------------------------ Subject: RV-List: DAR Inspection From: madriver@wildblue.net zenith-list@matronics.com OK my next problem. You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this... *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R========= * ------------------------------ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. See how. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:05 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RV-List: Re: Zenith-List: DAR Inspection talk to you buds at the local EAA chapter, theyll know. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: philip smith >Sent: Jun 27, 2010 11:15 AM >To: RV-List@matronics.com, RotaxEngines-List@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: DAR Inspection > >OK my next problem. > >You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this >to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares at least >two other projects in our local area that will be in the same predicament. > >After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit Built >Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years ago who did >inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has hung up his hat and >no longer does the airworthiness inspections. > >I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the closest >three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern Oregon and >Montana - all some distance away. > >I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do the >inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials. > >What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any ideas >of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny southern >Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals, lodging, >golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this done expeditiously. > >Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call. > >Phil Smith >1795 River Rd >Buhl, ID 83316 > >208 543 9270 > >madriver@wildblue.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Two cooling questions From: Dan Bergeron TOM: RE YOUR "ANTICIPATED" COOLING PROBLEMS - FLY THE AIRPLANE FIRST AND FIND OUT IF YOU EVEN HAVE A PROBLEM. YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO FIND NO PROBLEM AT ALL. LIKE MOST RV BUILDERS - I HAVE TWO OPENINGS CUT INTO MY REAR BAFFLES - ONE FEEDS AIR INTO THE OIL COOLER PLENUM, AND THE OTHER INTO A HEAT MUFF ON ONE EXHAUST PIPE, FROM WHERE IT FEEDS INTO A SECOND MUFF, THEN TO THE HEAT CONTROL UNIT ON THE FIREWALL. I HAVE A SLIDING GATE VALVE, MOUNTED BEHIND THE BAFFLE, WHICH CONTROLS AIR FLOW INTO THE OIL COOLER PLENUM VIA A PUSH/PULL CABLE. ON HOT SUMMER DAYS THAT VALVE IS ALWAYS WIDE OPEN - TYPICALLY MY SUMMER OIL TEMP RUNS IN THE HIGH 170S - IN WINTER OF COURSE I CLOSE THE VALVE DOWN AS NECESSARY TO KEEP THE OIL TEMPS WHERE THEY NEED BE. REMEMBER THAT ENGINE OIL PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN KEEPING YOUR ENGINE COOL AND HAPPY. I'D LEAVE THAT OIL COOLER DOOR WIDE OPEN UNTIL YOU SEE WHAT'S WHAT. THE OTHER OPENING, WHICH FEEDS AIR INTO THE HEAT MUFFS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE OPEN - IN THE SENSE THAT THE HEAT CONTROL BOX ON THE FIREWALL IS EITHER DIRECTING WARM AIR INTO THE CABIN, OR IT'S DUMPING IT OVERBOARD. IN A CLIMB ON A HOT DAY YOU CAN REDUCE THE CLIMB ANGLE TO KEEP YOUR CLIMB SPEEDS ABOVE 100 KTS. HECK - WITH FULL POWER AT 120 KTS YOU'RE STILL CLIMBING AT APPROX 900' A MINUTE. YOU CAN REDUCE THE CLIMB ANGLE EVEN FURTHER AND CLIMB AT PARTIAL POWER YOU CAN ALSO STEP CLIMB IF NECESSARY TO KEEP YOUR CYL HEAD TEMPS BELOW 400. I RECENTLY FINISHED A BOOK, "FLY THE ENGINE" BY KAS THOMAS. HE STATES SOMEWHERE IN THERE, AND I'M PARAPHRASING: "COOL TEMPS ARE THE WHOLE STORY IN EXTENDING ENGINE LIFE," AND "KEEP CYLINDERS HEALTHY BY KEEPING THEM COOL." HE RECOMMEND KEEPING CHTS BELOW 380 AT ALL TIMES. GOOD LUCK AND FLY SAFE. DAN BERGERON RV-7A - N307TB 154 HOURS SINCE FIRST FLIGHT ON 08/04/09 On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:07 AM, N616TB wrote: > > > I don't think you mentioned what engine and such you have but here is my > situation. > > RV-6 with 0-360 carb and constant speed prop. > > I have my oil cooler mounted on the back of the baffle and two cabin heat > muffs. > My engine ran very hot initially so I tried just about everything to get > the CHT temps down. > > The two things that did NOT add significant help were: blocking off the > cabin heat, blocking off part of the oil cooler. > > I now have a door behind my oil cooler so I can block it as needed. I see > vans has a new slider that goes between the oil cooler and the baffle and > that looks real nice. I may adapt mine to that. The only reason however is > the oil temps are usually very low so I use the door to try to get my oil > temps up. It does not add significantly to the CHT problem. > > I finally got my CHT's to an acceptable level by adding louvers in the > bottom of the cowl. I did everything that was suggested and all my baffles > are very tight. > > My CHT's now run in the low 400's during initial take off and climb out. I > climb out between 110 and 120 to keep them in the 410 - 420 range. Once in > cruise, my CHT's run more about 375 or a bit lower. I wish it was all > lower, but can't seem to get that to happen. > > I would entertain the idea of leaving things the way they are for first > flight until you know what your temps look like. Plan a shallow climb as > this is where the high temps would come into play if it was going to be a > problem. You will soon know what is or isn't an issue. Double check the > baffles are all sealing and that will show up after you fly as it leaves > marks on the inside of the baffle. Also another area that creates a problem > is at the air intake ramps if the air can go around them as in over the top > and escape to the low pressure side. > > Good luck and I look forward to hearing of your first flight. > Tim Bryan > Frankston, Texas > RV-6 (N616TB) > 140 hours and counting > ________________________________________ > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [ > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent [ > sarg314@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 5:18 PM > To: rv-list > Subject: RV-List: Two cooling questions > > The airworthiness inspection my RV-6A will be next week, so first flight > will be soon after that. I'm wondering about cooling the engine. The 2 > main things that steal cooling air form the engine are the oil cooler and > the take-off for the cabin heat. > > 1- I certainly don't need cabin heat in Arizona in June. If I block off > the opening in the baffles that is plumbed to the heat muff, no air will > circulate thru the heat muff. Is that OK? Will that stretch of exhaust > pipe get too hot? Is that what most folks do in the summer? > > 2- I did the oil cooler installation on the baffles behind cylinder #4. I > used the Stewart Warner 7 row oil cooler, so I expect it to be pretty > effective; that is, I doubt it needs the full opening that it has. Will I > do better to block off, say, 1/3 of that to start with, or should I leave it > wide open and just see what happens on the first flight? > > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, ready for inspection. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:23 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: New Tires - Highest Quality...? Its almost time for a new set of tires on the 'ol RV-8. What are the very best tires for the RV wheels? I'd like something that will last a little longer than 70 hours. Thanks in advance for the feedback... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: New Tires - Highest Quality...? From: mr.gsun@gmail.com I like the Michelins. I've replaced them once in 4 years of flying, bouncing & taxiing. Probably 200 hours of flying. Swapped them on the rims about half way thru their life and will probably replace these some time this winter. On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > Its almost time for a new set of tires on the 'ol RV-8. What are the very > best tires for the RV wheels? I'd like something that will last a little > longer than 70 hours. > > Thanks in advance for the feedback... > > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.