Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:06 PM - AFS fuel flow system display changes (Ralph E. Capen)
2. 02:54 PM - Rivet Squeezer for Sale (John Danielson)
3. 04:18 PM - Re: AFS fuel flow system display changes (Greg young)
4. 05:01 PM - Re: AFS fuel flow system display changes (Ralph E. Capen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | AFS fuel flow system display changes |
First, I'll preface by saying that I really like the equipment that these folks
have for our planes and their customer service is top-notch - and I am an outsider
not related to the company other than as a customer. Not bashing anyone
here - just trying to get an understanding of who this change impacts and how
it impacts them. My configuration started as a 3400EM - I have since upgraded
to 3400sSP configuration (new processor and screen in addition to six-pack display)
to have a set of backup instruments. The upgrade also included a Beta
software release to fix a couple of last minute bugs in my system.
Here's the scoop:
I have 19 gallons per side for main tanks and 9 gallons per side for tip tanks
for a total capacity of 56 gallons, with them all filled, the system reports 56
gallons available.
Previously, the "Fuel Used" display only showed that fuel that has flowed through
the flow-meter. If I only fill the mains, the system shows 38 gallons available
and zero used. As I ran the engine for my flight, the "Fuel Used" display
would increase from Zero by showing only fuel flowed through the flow meter.
Now, the "Fuel Used" display shows the fuel that has flowed through the flow-meter
plus the unfilled tanks.
If I only fill the mains, the system shows 38 gallons available and 18 gallons
used. As I ran the engine for my flight, the "Fuel Used" display would increase
from 18 while adding the fuel that has subsequently flowed through the flow-meter.
Somewhere during the flight, if I look at the "Fuel Used" display, I note that
what is reported is getting close to what I just put in.....18 gallons early.
Good safety margin - but not what I was expecting.
I have queried the folks at AFS about this - they respond that the change was made
in the interest of safety and to reduce confusion. Yes, I could simply not
look at the "Fuel Used" display and only look at the "Fuel Available" display
and cross check that with my fuel guages and time calculations for flight endurance
planning purposes. I also asked for an optional flowed-only mode or to
allow the user the choice of calculation methods (they still have the old code
and it simply would be a system setting).
I know that I am not the only one having trouble with this change - AFS indicated
that they have received multiple indications of concern.
Anyone else out there think this is an "odd change"? How are you (planning to)
accomodating this? I am planning to try ignoring the "Fuel Used" display and
see how that works....with a plan B of having multiple configurations (with and
without tip-tanks) that I can upluad when Iplan to fuel the tiptanks. I don't
expect them to change it back - but they may provide options if enough folks
ask for it. Or, am I being overly picky about something that shouldn't matter
- in the big picture?
Your opinions please,
Ralph Capen
Message 2
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| Subject: | Rivet Squeezer for Sale |
I have a Chicago Pnuematic Rivet Sqeezer for sale.
I has a 1" yoke that is included.
See photo http://s767.photobucket.com/albums/xx317/Jdaniel343/?action=vie
w¤t=IMG_6408.jpg
Asking $300 obo.
Thanks
John L. Danielson
Message 3
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| Subject: | AFS fuel flow system display changes |
You are not being picky at all. That is a bizarre way of thinking on their part.
One of the primary benefits of a totalizer is to know how much you have flowed
to the engine to give you a sanity check against the amount you last added,
what's shown on the level gauges and time. If you forget to reset the totals
or forget to note the total you start with the fuel used provides no value. It
also means you can't just zero the fuel used to get a trip reading. I zero mine
when flying in proficiency contests. If there is any safety aspect to that
it's not for your benefit but for their protection.
Greg Young
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: AFS fuel flow system display changes
First, I'll preface by saying that I really like the equipment that these folks
have for our planes and their customer service is top-notch - and I am an outsider
not related to the company other than as a customer. Not bashing anyone
here - just trying to get an understanding of who this change impacts and how
it impacts them. My configuration started as a 3400EM - I have since upgraded
to 3400sSP configuration (new processor and screen in addition to six-pack display)
to have a set of backup instruments. The upgrade also included a Beta
software release to fix a couple of last minute bugs in my system.
Here's the scoop:
I have 19 gallons per side for main tanks and 9 gallons per side for tip tanks
for a total capacity of 56 gallons, with them all filled, the system reports 56
gallons available.
Previously, the "Fuel Used" display only showed that fuel that has flowed through
the flow-meter. If I only fill the mains, the system shows 38 gallons available
and zero used. As I ran the engine for my flight, the "Fuel Used" display
would increase from Zero by showing only fuel flowed through the flow meter.
Now, the "Fuel Used" display shows the fuel that has flowed through the flow-meter
plus the unfilled tanks.
If I only fill the mains, the system shows 38 gallons available and 18 gallons
used. As I ran the engine for my flight, the "Fuel Used" display would increase
from 18 while adding the fuel that has subsequently flowed through the flow-meter.
Somewhere during the flight, if I look at the "Fuel Used" display, I note that
what is reported is getting close to what I just put in.....18 gallons early.
Good safety margin - but not what I was expecting.
I have queried the folks at AFS about this - they respond that the change was made
in the interest of safety and to reduce confusion. Yes, I could simply not
look at the "Fuel Used" display and only look at the "Fuel Available" display
and cross check that with my fuel guages and time calculations for flight endurance
planning purposes. I also asked for an optional flowed-only mode or to
allow the user the choice of calculation methods (they still have the old code
and it simply would be a system setting).
I know that I am not the only one having trouble with this change - AFS indicated
that they have received multiple indications of concern.
Anyone else out there think this is an "odd change"? How are you (planning to)
accomodating this? I am planning to try ignoring the "Fuel Used" display and
see how that works....with a plan B of having multiple configurations (with and
without tip-tanks) that I can upluad when Iplan to fuel the tiptanks. I don't
expect them to change it back - but they may provide options if enough folks
ask for it. Or, am I being overly picky about something that shouldn't matter
- in the big picture?
Your opinions please,
Ralph Capen
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AFS fuel flow system display changes |
Thanks Greg - I didn't think I was being out of line to question this - as
soon as I saw it I didn't like it. Your description matches how I have been
using mine for the last two years.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg young" <bigdog@bentwing.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: AFS fuel flow system display changes
>
> You are not being picky at all. That is a bizarre way of thinking on their
> part. One of the primary benefits of a totalizer is to know how much you
> have flowed to the engine to give you a sanity check against the amount
> you last added, what's shown on the level gauges and time. If you forget
> to reset the totals or forget to note the total you start with the fuel
> used provides no value. It also means you can't just zero the fuel used to
> get a trip reading. I zero mine when flying in proficiency contests. If
> there is any safety aspect to that it's not for your benefit but for their
> protection.
>
> Greg Young
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:59 PM
> To: rv-list; RV10-list; Avionics List
> Subject: RV-List: AFS fuel flow system display changes
>
>
> First, I'll preface by saying that I really like the equipment that these
> folks have for our planes and their customer service is top-notch - and I
> am an outsider not related to the company other than as a customer. Not
> bashing anyone here - just trying to get an understanding of who this
> change impacts and how it impacts them. My configuration started as a
> 3400EM - I have since upgraded to 3400sSP configuration (new processor and
> screen in addition to six-pack display) to have a set of backup
> instruments. The upgrade also included a Beta software release to fix a
> couple of last minute bugs in my system.
>
> Here's the scoop:
>
> I have 19 gallons per side for main tanks and 9 gallons per side for tip
> tanks for a total capacity of 56 gallons, with them all filled, the system
> reports 56 gallons available.
>
> Previously, the "Fuel Used" display only showed that fuel that has flowed
> through the flow-meter. If I only fill the mains, the system shows 38
> gallons available and zero used. As I ran the engine for my flight, the
> "Fuel Used" display would increase from Zero by showing only fuel flowed
> through the flow meter.
>
> Now, the "Fuel Used" display shows the fuel that has flowed through the
> flow-meter plus the unfilled tanks.
> If I only fill the mains, the system shows 38 gallons available and 18
> gallons used. As I ran the engine for my flight, the "Fuel Used" display
> would increase from 18 while adding the fuel that has subsequently flowed
> through the flow-meter.
>
> Somewhere during the flight, if I look at the "Fuel Used" display, I note
> that what is reported is getting close to what I just put in.....18
> gallons early. Good safety margin - but not what I was expecting.
>
> I have queried the folks at AFS about this - they respond that the change
> was made in the interest of safety and to reduce confusion. Yes, I could
> simply not look at the "Fuel Used" display and only look at the "Fuel
> Available" display and cross check that with my fuel guages and time
> calculations for flight endurance planning purposes. I also asked for an
> optional flowed-only mode or to allow the user the choice of calculation
> methods (they still have the old code and it simply would be a system
> setting).
>
> I know that I am not the only one having trouble with this change - AFS
> indicated that they have received multiple indications of concern.
>
> Anyone else out there think this is an "odd change"? How are you
> (planning to) accomodating this? I am planning to try ignoring the "Fuel
> Used" display and see how that works....with a plan B of having multiple
> configurations (with and without tip-tanks) that I can upluad when Iplan
> to fuel the tiptanks. I don't expect them to change it back - but they
> may provide options if enough folks ask for it. Or, am I being overly
> picky about something that shouldn't matter - in the big picture?
>
> Your opinions please,
> Ralph Capen
>
>
>
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