Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:47 AM - leaning engine (thomas sargent)
2. 09:09 AM - Calaveras Air Faire 2011 (Larry Mersek)
3. 09:39 AM - Re: leaning engine (Ralph E. Capen)
4. 11:55 AM - Re: leaning engine (Bob Mills)
5. 12:25 PM - Re: leaning engine (thomas sargent)
Message 1
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I have a Bart Lalonde IO-360-B2B with AFP injection in my 6A with about 36
hours on it. I have a VM-1000 engine monitor with it's "leaning mode" to
help me lean it. It just watches the EGT's until they peak and flashes the
display to alert you to the peak.
The leaning mode worked initially. My first problem with it occurred when a
EGT wire fell into contact with a spark plug wire. That made the EGT
readings so noisy that it couldn't detect peak EGT. I re-arranged the wires
and that seemed to fixed that problem. Now however, when I start leaning,
the thing doesn't detect a peak until I've leaned so much that the engine
has started missing. Is this indicative of a EGT temp reading problem, or
an engine/fuel injection problem? Could a bad injector nozzle do this?
The EGT temps of the 4 cylinders are pretty even.
--
Tom Sargent
Message 2
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Subject: | Calaveras Air Faire 2011 |
The Calaveras Fly-In is coming up in April and
we're again looking forward to another great
turnout of RV's to help celebrate our annual event.
--Larry Mersek
N336RV
Calaveras Airport =93Air Faire 2011=94
Apr. 16=ADSan Andreas, CA. Calaveras County Airport
(KCPU)=ADFly-In & Open House 8am-5pm.
Aircraft & Classic Cars display; Music by the
Calaveras community band; Mountain RC Flyers radio controlled aircraft;
Breakfast and Bratwurst by Lyons Club; Delicious Tri-Tip BBQ by EAA 484.
Airport/Event Info: (209) 736-2501 Kathy
Zancanella: <mailto:kz@mlode.com>kz@mlode.com
Mother Lode EAA 484: <http://www.eaa484.org/>www.EAA484.org
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCPU
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: leaning engine |
Tom,
I have no experience with the VM1000 - but the Peak-detect mode on my AFS3400 determines
peak the same way.
If I recall correctly, the original VM1000 EGT thermocouples are similar to the
ones that AFS uses. My understanding is that the heat generates electricity
via dissimilar metal activity and it is a very low voltage and amperage.
You may have toasted the EGT circuit in the DPU with the gozillion volt spark.
With the EGT's pretty consistent and even, it sounds like the engine is running
fine - injection and all. Remember, it doesn't matter what the temps are, only
that the ups and downs track together and peak at the same fuel flow rate
Since balancing my injector flow (AFP also), I can pull the mixture pretty coarsely
and I'll get peak detection about 30 LOP and can then adjust accordingly
- but well before it starts missing. Have you done any work towards balancing
your injector flow? There's lots of documentation on how to do this - and I'll
be happy to share my method with you...
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 2, 2011 11:20 AM
>To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: leaning engine
>
>I have a Bart Lalonde IO-360-B2B with AFP injection in my 6A with about 36
>hours on it. I have a VM-1000 engine monitor with it's "leaning mode" to
>help me lean it. It just watches the EGT's until they peak and flashes the
>display to alert you to the peak.
>
>The leaning mode worked initially. My first problem with it occurred when a
>EGT wire fell into contact with a spark plug wire. That made the EGT
>readings so noisy that it couldn't detect peak EGT. I re-arranged the wires
>and that seemed to fixed that problem. Now however, when I start leaning,
>the thing doesn't detect a peak until I've leaned so much that the engine
>has started missing. Is this indicative of a EGT temp reading problem, or
>an engine/fuel injection problem? Could a bad injector nozzle do this?
>
>The EGT temps of the 4 cylinders are pretty even.
>
>--
>Tom Sargent
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: leaning engine |
Tom,
I have a VM-1000 on my RV-6 (IO-540 with Bendix FI) and see somewhat
similar results (minus the engine stumbling).
Airplane had 400 hours when I bought it (with the VM in it) and I've
used that leaning mode a lot in the 3+ years I've owned it. Now the VM
has over 800 hours and is 13 years old (just for perspective).
When I lean, the VM peak indication almost always happens when the
leanest cylinder is lean of peak. On my motor, 2 and 5 are always the
first to peak. After much experimenting, I've found that once I get
that peak indication (the flashing) if I switch to the EGT for the cyl
that peaked first, I can then richen to where I want that cylinder,
knowing that the other cylinders are richer. I run 50 ROP on the
leanest, and that puts the others about 80-110 ROP (on my engine), and
that is my practice up hi, where I can't hurt the motor by being too
close to peak.
One thing I've noted is that how slowly I lean has an impact on how
lean of peak that leanest cylinder will go before it flashes. I lean
pretty slowly over time, but if I go excrutiatingly slow, that peak
indication happens much closer to actual peak. With my normal method,
the peak happens consistently at 1 gph FF less than actual peak, and
my 50-110ish ROP setting is another 1 gph FF higher. For example, if
it flashes at 11 gph, real peak on the leanest cylinder is 12, an my
preferred EGT setting is 13. It's very consistent. And I know those
fuel flows make most of you cringe! :-)
In other experiments, I have found that most of my cylinders peak
within .2-.4 gph FF of each other, with an outlier that is .6 gph from
the leanest. I've considered GAMIs, but haven't gone there yet. I have
10:1 pistons, so I choose to run ROP and pay a little extra in fuel
for the cooling (just one technique). If I wanted to run LOP, I'd
definitely balance the injectors more, then spend more time testing
with that leaning mode, to see where each cylinder went LOP.
My VM has behaved this way since I bought the plane, so I don't know
if your wire contact could have caused the issue...just can't speak to
that.
Perhaps try some really slow leaning up above 8k and/or below 75%
power: drop .2 gph and write down all 4 EGT readings, then repeat over
and over until all 4 are 25-30 LOP (or wherever the smart LOP flyers
suggest) or until the engine start to run rough. See how close to each
other in FF they each peak, and see where the VM flashes at you. It
may reveal an injector balancing issue, or it may show that you are
more LOP than you think when the VM flashes. Takes a bit of a X-C to
do it, but it burns up time enroute!
Hope this isn't TMI, and that it helps...Goose is already going to
gimme heck for being verbose!
Cheers,
Bob
On Mar 2, 2011, at 8:20, thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Bart Lalonde IO-360-B2B with AFP injection in my 6A with
> about 36 hours on it. I have a VM-1000 engine monitor with it's
> "leaning mode" to help me lean it. It just watches the EGT's until
> they peak and flashes the display to alert you to the peak.
>
> The leaning mode worked initially. My first problem with it
> occurred when a EGT wire fell into contact with a spark plug wire.
> That made the EGT readings so noisy that it couldn't detect peak
> EGT. I re-arranged the wires and that seemed to fixed that
> problem. Now however, when I start leaning, the thing doesn't
> detect a peak until I've leaned so much that the engine has started
> missing. Is this indicative of a EGT temp reading problem, or an
> engine/fuel injection problem? Could a bad injector nozzle do this?
>
> The EGT temps of the 4 cylinders are pretty even.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: leaning engine |
Ralph:
No, I haven't done anything about balancing injector flow. I assume that's
in my AFP manual? Is it hard?
I've considered that the proximityof the spark plug wire might have induce
too much voltage in the Thermo C. circuit, enough to damage it even. That
might not be too hard to fix, though. You can still get parts for the
VM1000, at least as of about a year ago.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I have no experience with the VM1000 - but the Peak-detect mode on my
> AFS3400 determines peak the same way.
>
> If I recall correctly, the original VM1000 EGT thermocouples are similar to
> the ones that AFS uses. My understanding is that the heat generates
> electricity via dissimilar metal activity and it is a very low voltage and
> amperage.
>
> You may have toasted the EGT circuit in the DPU with the gozillion volt
> spark.
>
> With the EGT's pretty consistent and even, it sounds like the engine is
> running fine - injection and all. Remember, it doesn't matter what the
> temps are, only that the ups and downs track together and peak at the same
> fuel flow rate
>
> Since balancing my injector flow (AFP also), I can pull the mixture pretty
> coarsely and I'll get peak detection about 30 LOP and can then adjust
> accordingly - but well before it starts missing. Have you done any work
> towards balancing your injector flow? There's lots of documentation on how
> to do this - and I'll be happy to share my method with you...
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
> >Sent: Mar 2, 2011 11:20 AM
> >To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV-List: leaning engine
> >
> >I have a Bart Lalonde IO-360-B2B with AFP injection in my 6A with about
> 36
> >hours on it. I have a VM-1000 engine monitor with it's "leaning mode" to
> >help me lean it. It just watches the EGT's until they peak and flashes
> the
> >display to alert you to the peak.
> >
> >The leaning mode worked initially. My first problem with it occurred when
> a
> >EGT wire fell into contact with a spark plug wire. That made the EGT
> >readings so noisy that it couldn't detect peak EGT. I re-arranged the
> wires
> >and that seemed to fixed that problem. Now however, when I start leaning,
> >the thing doesn't detect a peak until I've leaned so much that the engine
> >has started missing. Is this indicative of a EGT temp reading problem, or
> >an engine/fuel injection problem? Could a bad injector nozzle do this?
> >
> >The EGT temps of the 4 cylinders are pretty even.
> >
> >--
> >Tom Sargent
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
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