Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Re: vans airforce (MacDonald Doug)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: vans airforce (John Trollinger)
3. 05:29 AM - Re: vans airforce (Panama Red)
4. 06:57 AM - Re: vans airforce (Billy & Tami Britton)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: vans airforce (David)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: vans airforce (Valovich, Paul)
7. 10:06 AM - Heavy Right Wing... (Matt Dralle)
8. 10:18 AM - Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Matt Dralle)
9. 10:49 AM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Ralph E. Capen)
10. 11:08 AM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Ralph E. Capen)
11. 11:58 AM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Steve Senegal)
12. 12:00 PM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Bruce)
13. 12:03 PM - Re: RV10-List: This could be bad....(storms in S-N-F) (Robin Marks)
14. 12:04 PM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Mark Burns)
15. 12:14 PM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (MLWynn@aol.com)
16. 12:52 PM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Ralph E. Capen)
17. 01:05 PM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Denis Walsh)
18. 03:15 PM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Kelly McMullen)
19. 03:28 PM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Kelly McMullen)
20. 04:43 PM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Kevin Horton)
21. 05:18 PM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Kevin Horton)
22. 05:26 PM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Doug Gray)
23. 08:53 PM - Re: Heavy Right Wing... (Matt Dralle)
24. 09:01 PM - Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: vans airforce |
I don't know, my experience has been the opposite. The one time I posted a newbie
question here I was clearly told not to bother the group.
My questions have been promptly answered on VAF. It might be the list where your
messages were posted. The guys on the RV-4 list seem pretty decent.
Doug M
RV-4 emp
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
> On 3/30/2011 7:39 PM, Vern wrote:
> >
> > How you ever noticed how clicky some the people are on
> vaf. If you post something it just might get deleted. if
> your not one of the gang.
> >
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: vans airforce |
I am sorry to hear you have had problems on VAF, but I have always
gotten and answer to my questions there, where every time I ask
something on Matronics it is crickets.. so maybe you all have a click
here too?
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ralph&Maria Finch
<ralphmariafinch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Proudly "Banned For Life" on VAF. Guess I wasn't part of the
> moderators clique either.
> RF
>
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Vern <verdixbo@sisqtel.net> wrote:
>>
>> How you ever noticed how clicky some the people are on vaf. If you post something
it just might get deleted. if your not one of the gang.
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: vans airforce |
I never was banned, I just wasn't allowed to join.
Bob
RV6
>> Proudly "Banned For Life" on VAF. Guess I wasn't part of the
> moderators clique either.
> RF
>
>>
>> How you ever noticed how clicky some the people are on vaf. If you post
>> something it just might get deleted. if your not one of the gang.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: vans airforce |
I am not going to complain about either list. Yes, to me it does seem like
each has their own little "in" group. However, I've never had a bad
experience with either. I do have to say that it seems to me that the
Matronics group is more "that question has been answered a hundred
times--search the forums or these websites for the answer." I've always had
my question answered directly on VAF and, no, I'm not one of the "in" crowd
on either group.
Bottom line is that without these groups I would not enjoy the build nearly
as much. It's not just the knowledge that's valuable, but the
people/friendships made while making the journey. Besides, one can always
call Vans directly and talk to them about our questions. I would much
rather post on either site listed in this e-mail and risk no answer at all
vs. phoning Vans directly and having to talk with a particular "engineer"
who is everybody's favorite.
So, I suggest that whether you feel you fit in or not, lets not
self-destruct these lists or web-sites. If you feel you fit into one or the
other better, then stick with them. Meanwhile, I've always monitored both
on a daily basis (sometimes 2 or 3 times) and will continue to do so.
Bill
Still working on RV-10 Wings (tanks sealed finally)
--------------------------------------------------
From: "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: vans airforce
>
> I don't know, my experience has been the opposite. The one time I posted
> a newbie question here I was clearly told not to bother the group.
>
> My questions have been promptly answered on VAF. It might be the list
> where your messages were posted. The guys on the RV-4 list seem pretty
> decent.
>
> Doug M
> RV-4 emp
> NW Ontario, Canada
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>> On 3/30/2011 7:39 PM, Vern wrote:
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Vern"<verdixbo@sisqtel.net>
>> >
>> > How you ever noticed how clicky some the people are on
>> vaf. If you post something it just might get deleted. if
>> your not one of the gang.
>> >
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: vans airforce |
I've had my wrist slapped on VAF, but I enjoy the forum, so I
continue to participate. Doug's rules about what will be deleted are
crystal clear, but I think sometimes the moderators are kind of like
inspectors at different FSDO's. ^_^
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Trainer
On Mar 30, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Vern wrote:
>
> How you ever noticed how clicky some the people are on vaf. If you
> post something it just might get deleted. if your not one of the gang.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=335533#335533
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: vans airforce |
No - I have never noticed that. Do you have examples? I've never had anythi
ng deleted - and usually get rapid, knowledgeable answers.
If it bothers you enough to post on this forum, why in the hell do you even
open the VAF link? Seems like your only interested in igniting a pro/con V
AF debate.
Why?
Paul Valovich
N192NM
Message 7
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Subject: | Heavy Right Wing... |
Dear Listers,
Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm trying
to get all the little things that need doing done before then. Dealing with the
heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at low speed I
have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need.
Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up",
maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge. I
wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron will add a
bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize the issue?
Thanks!
Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
Message 8
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Subject: | Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
Dear Listers,
With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150 RPM and 25-26
MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH. These number are down
low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit
is pretty quiet too.
Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH that much,
but starts dropping the speed.
In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest cylinder.
Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about 28-29.
Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as described above?
Thanks,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Heavy Right Wing... |
Before you squeeze either, take your airfoil template and make sure the leading
edge of the aileron isn't sticking up in to the airstream. Mine was by just
a little bit. I reset the aileron and haven't found the need to squeeze....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:10 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Heavy Right Wing...
>
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm trying
to get all the little things that need doing done before then. Dealing with
the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at low speed I
have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need.
Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up",
maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge.
I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron will add
a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize the issue?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Matt
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
Matt,
I don't have an IO390 but the manual for my IO360B shows that combination as outside
of the suggested area of continuous operation - yes it was a quick look
and I didn't purely run the numbers.
I would guess that combination might be detonation-prone.
YMMV - see if you can get the appropriate chart for the IO390. They are a bugger
to figure out too - but there are some guidelines.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:21 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150 RPM and
25-26 MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH. These number are
down low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit
is pretty quiet too.
>
>Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH that much,
but starts dropping the speed.
>
>In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest cylinder.
Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about 28-29.
>
>Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as described
above?
>
>Thanks,
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
Matt,
I'm curious as to what model 72" Hartzell prop you're running?
Steve
(650) 346 6967
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 31, 2011, at 6:21 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150 RPM and
25-26 MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH. These number are
down low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit
is pretty quiet too.
>
> Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH that much,
but starts dropping the speed.
>
> In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest cylinder.
Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about 28-29.
>
> Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as described
above?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
Ralph,
I looked at your attached chart and didn't see any warning about
operation limits. These type charts are just used to predict what
various RPM/MP/Altitude combinations will result in a given airspeed. As
long as he stays in his engine/prop allowed range it's fine. Those
numbers can be found on the props TC certificate or by a call to the
props manufacturer. Low RPM, high MP has been used for years, every
turbo-charged engine does it.
Bruce
WWW.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
Matt,
I don't have an IO390 but the manual for my IO360B shows that
combination as outside of the suggested area of continuous operation -
yes it was a quick look and I didn't purely run the numbers.
I would guess that combination might be detonation-prone.
YMMV - see if you can get the appropriate chart for the IO390. They are
a bugger to figure out too - but there are some guidelines.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:21 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com,
rv7-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150
RPM and 25-26 MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH.
These number are down low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower
GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit is pretty quiet too.
>
>Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH
that much, but starts dropping the speed.
>
>In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest
cylinder. Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about
28-29.
>
>Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as
described above?
>
>Thanks,
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | RE: RV10-List: This could be bad....(storms in S-N-F) |
Re: RV10-List: This could be bad....(storms in S-N-F)
MARCH 31, 2011
*Strong Storms Batter Sun 'n
Fun*<http://links.bonniermarinegroup.com/ctt?kn=18&m=4803797&r=NDc4NjIxOTY5OQS2&b=0&j=MTc1MDkzMTk2S0&mt=1&rt=0>
**
[image: SNF damage]<http://links.bonniermarinegroup.com/ctt?kn=18&m=4803797&r=NDc4NjIxOTY5OQS2&b=0&j=MTc1MDkzMTk2S0&mt=1&rt=0>
*Damage to total hundreds of millions of dollars.* *(Photo: Pia Bergqvist)*
The scene at Sun 'n Fun at Lakeland Linder Regional Airport turned to chaos
on Thursday as strong storms hammered the show site, flipping airplanes,
knocking out power to the exhibit halls and collapsing a building, trapping
dozens of people inside. The National Weather Service reported confirmed
tornadoes in the area, and said more than 70 people were trapped inside the
collapsed building at the Sun 'n Fun show site. Even though the first couple
of days of the show were largely storm free, the week continued to be
defined by heavy rain that soaked the grounds the day before the festivities
started and kept thousands of airplanes from arriving in Lakeland. Despite
the slow start to the week, some vendors reported doing good business even
with the smaller crowds. Launch events by Aspen, Piper, Garmin and Cessna
generated a good deal of buzz at the show, and as the week progressed and
the scattered areas of decent weather surfaced, the mood of show goers
seemed decidedly upbeat. But on Thursday morning show goers awoke to heavy
rains and threatening skies before a massive storm cell swept through the
area late in the morning. A tornado warning for the area remained in effect
on Thursday afternoon.
*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dj Merrill
*Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:06 AM
*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: RV10-List: This could be bad....(storms in S-N-F)
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
On 03/31/2011 01:11 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
> If you hear anything with good links, I'd love to hear
> that nothing happened to all the airplanes....
There is more news on the Sun n Fun Facebook page.
http://www.facebook.com/SunNFunFlyIn
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
------------------------------
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Heavy Right Wing... |
I did the same thing as Ralph. It worked.
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 16:48:32 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heavy Right Wing...
Before you squeeze either, take your airfoil template and make sure the
leading edge of the aileron isn't sticking up in to the airstream. Mine was
by just a little bit. I reset the aileron and haven't found the need to
squeeze....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:10 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Heavy Right Wing...
>
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm
trying to get all the little things that need doing done before then.
Dealing with the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently,
at low speed I have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more
LEFT trim I need. Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron
is noticeably "up", maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at
the trailing edge. I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the
RIGHT aileron will add a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully
neutralize the issue?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Matt
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>
>
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Re: Heavy Right Wing... |
Hey Matt,
When I sent in my pledge, I got a great book called something like Airplane
Rigging. It was an excellent read and a reference I plan to return to
when I actually get my bird airborn. I am certainly no expert in this, but
reviewing that book might give you some really good ideas.
I wonder what is happening to your slip indicator as the airspeed goes up.
Is the airplane going straight? If the issue is in yaw and is getting
compensated by roll, then the aileron is probably not the place to start. If
the issue is the prop wash affecting the wing ( I can't remember from the
book which roll this affects) then I think they said something about
changing the angle the engine sits (washer under the motor mount).
I am probably just broadcasting my ignorance here, but I thought I would
mention what a great book it was and how much it helped my understanding of
the complexities of the rigging process.
Good luck and let us know how this comes out.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 3/31/2011 10:11:52 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dralle@matronics.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm
trying to get all the little things that need doing done before then.
Dealing with the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at
low speed I have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT
trim I need. Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is
noticeably "up", maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at
the trailing edge. I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the
RIGHT aileron will add a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully
neutralize the issue?
Thanks!
Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
Message 16
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Subject: | Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
There's a place just to the left of the dividing line towards the bottom that says
"LIMITING MAN. PRESS FOR CONTINUOUS OPERATION". It points to both the left
and right portions of the chart.
That is what I was referring to - and that is what I try to go by. I would think
it is even more critical if you're turbocharged.
Or am I really misinterpreting the charts.....maybe Bart (Lalonde) or Rhonda (Barrett)
or Mahlon (Russell) will chime in here and keep us honest.
I'll take an education....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce <BGray@glasair.org>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 2:54 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>
>
>Ralph,
>
>I looked at your attached chart and didn't see any warning about
>operation limits. These type charts are just used to predict what
>various RPM/MP/Altitude combinations will result in a given airspeed. As
>long as he stays in his engine/prop allowed range it's fine. Those
>numbers can be found on the props TC certificate or by a call to the
>props manufacturer. Low RPM, high MP has been used for years, every
>turbo-charged engine does it.
>
>Bruce
>WWW.Glasair.org
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:07 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>
>Matt,
>
>I don't have an IO390 but the manual for my IO360B shows that
>combination as outside of the suggested area of continuous operation -
>yes it was a quick look and I didn't purely run the numbers.
>
>I would guess that combination might be detonation-prone.
>
>YMMV - see if you can get the appropriate chart for the IO390. They are
>a bugger to figure out too - but there are some guidelines.
>
>Ralph
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:21 PM
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com,
>rv7-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>>
>>
>>Dear Listers,
>>
>>With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150
>RPM and 25-26 MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH.
>These number are down low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower
>GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit is pretty quiet too.
>>
>>Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH
>that much, but starts dropping the speed.
>>
>>In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest
>cylinder. Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about
>28-29.
>>
>>Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as
>described above?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>-
>>Matt Dralle
>>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>>Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Heavy Right Wing... |
Matt there are lots of good pieces of advice available, and most of
what I've seen are worthwhile.
I just want to add: If you do get around to squeezing a trailing
edge, your technique is backwards. The wing whose aileron you squeeze
will become heavier.
Check everything else first.
DW
On Mar 31, 2011, at 10:10 , Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and
> I'm trying to get all the little things that need doing done before
> then. Dealing with the heavy right wing is the next thing on the
> list. Currently, at low speed I have about neutral aileron trim.
> The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need. Above 200mph, I run out
> of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up", maybe .125" or
> so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge. I
> wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron
> will add a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize
> the issue?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Matt
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Heavy Right Wing... |
Seems to be very common on 7's and 8's for the rt aileron outer hinge to
be high, allowing outer leading edge to stick up, while inner hinge is
perfect.
On 3/31/2011 9:48 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"<recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> Before you squeeze either, take your airfoil template and make sure the leading
edge of the aileron isn't sticking up in to the airstream. Mine was by just
a little bit. I reset the aileron and haven't found the need to squeeze....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matt Dralle<dralle@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:10 PM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Heavy Right Wing...
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle<dralle@matronics.com>
>>
>>
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm trying
to get all the little things that need doing done before then. Dealing with
the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at low speed
I have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need.
Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up",
maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge.
I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron will add
a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize the issue?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> -
>> Matt Dralle
>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>> Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
There is a difference between the early IO-360s that did not have
dynamic counterweights on the crank and the later versions used in the
Cardinal RG and Mooney 201 that have the dynamic counterweights. I am
pretty sure the IO-390 does have the dynamic counterweights. Point being
that the solid crank models have harmonic ranges between the Hartzell
prop and the engine that restrict operations, usually in the 2100-2350
range. The later models do not have those restrictions but do have
cautions against low MP and low rpm. So it is the prop and crank
combination that matters.
On 3/31/2011 12:46 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"<recapen@earthlink.net>
>
>
> There's a place just to the left of the dividing line towards the bottom that
says "LIMITING MAN. PRESS FOR CONTINUOUS OPERATION". It points to both the left
and right portions of the chart.
>
> That is what I was referring to - and that is what I try to go by. I would think
it is even more critical if you're turbocharged.
>
> Or am I really misinterpreting the charts.....maybe Bart (Lalonde) or Rhonda
(Barrett) or Mahlon (Russell) will chime in here and keep us honest.
>
>
> I'll take an education....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bruce<BGray@glasair.org>
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2011 2:54 PM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce"<BGray@glasair.org>
>>
>> Ralph,
>>
>> I looked at your attached chart and didn't see any warning about
>> operation limits. These type charts are just used to predict what
>> various RPM/MP/Altitude combinations will result in a given airspeed. As
>> long as he stays in his engine/prop allowed range it's fine. Those
>> numbers can be found on the props TC certificate or by a call to the
>> props manufacturer. Low RPM, high MP has been used for years, every
>> turbo-charged engine does it.
>>
>> Bruce
>> WWW.Glasair.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:07 PM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> I don't have an IO390 but the manual for my IO360B shows that
>> combination as outside of the suggested area of continuous operation -
>> yes it was a quick look and I didn't purely run the numbers.
>>
>> I would guess that combination might be detonation-prone.
>>
>> YMMV - see if you can get the appropriate chart for the IO390. They are
>> a bugger to figure out too - but there are some guidelines.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Matt Dralle<dralle@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:21 PM
>>> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com,
>> rv7-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle<dralle@matronics.com>
>>>
>>> Dear Listers,
>>>
>>> With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150
>> RPM and 25-26 MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH.
>> These number are down low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower
>> GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit is pretty quiet too.
>>> Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH
>> that much, but starts dropping the speed.
>>> In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest
>> cylinder. Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about
>> 28-29.
>>> Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as
>> described above?
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -
>>> Matt Dralle
>>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>>> Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
That RPM/MP combo might very well be detonation prone at 50 to 100 deg ROP. But,
I'm guessing (big emphasis on the word guessing) that it should be fine as
long as you are well LOP, and all CHTs are not too hot.
I'm no engine expert, so this advice is worth what you paid for it.
Kevin Horton
On 2011-03-31, at 13:07 , Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I don't have an IO390 but the manual for my IO360B shows that combination as
outside of the suggested area of continuous operation - yes it was a quick look
and I didn't purely run the numbers.
>
> I would guess that combination might be detonation-prone.
>
> YMMV - see if you can get the appropriate chart for the IO390. They are a bugger
to figure out too - but there are some guidelines.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:21 PM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>>
>>
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150 RPM and
25-26 MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH. These number are
down low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit
is pretty quiet too.
>>
>> Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH that
much, but starts dropping the speed.
>>
>> In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest cylinder.
Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about 28-29.
>>
>> Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as described
above?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -
>> Matt Dralle
>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>> Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Heavy Right Wing... |
On 2011-03-31, at 12:10 , Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm trying
to get all the little things that need doing done before then. Dealing with
the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at low speed
I have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need.
Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up",
maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge.
I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron will add
a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize the issue?
Matt,
Given that the out of trim changes so much with speed, I doubt a simple squeeze
of an aileron trailing edge is the answer. You'd end up with a heavy left wing
at slow speed, and a heavy right wing at high speed. Study the info that Van's
has published on this before you do any squeezing.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Heavy.pdf
I'm guessing you've either got a misrigged flap, or an aileron hinge that needs
to be moved vertically.
If you do squeeze an aileron, you squeeze the one on the light wing, i.e. you'd
squeeze the left one.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
On Thu, 2011-03-31 at 09:21 -0700, Matt Dralle wrote:
> a combination of 2150 RPM and 25-26 MP
The Lycoming engine plots say to me that operation at full power, full
throttle, full rich (but with zero RAM air boosting) down to 2400 RPM is
OK. But the limit line is clearly saying that if the RPM is set below
2400 RPM the maximum power has to be dialed back.
This is not unreasonable since the engines are rated at max RPM. Power
is the product of RPM and Torque. To retain the same HP at reduced RPM
requires increasing the Torque output - increasing the peak forces
withing the engine. Both the max RPM and max Torque define the
operating limits of the engine from a mechanical point of view. (You
need to hit the cylinders harder to get the same HP at lower RPM)
The max RPM and the lines marked 'Limiting man pressure for continuous
operation.' is how these limits are conveyed to the operator. What the
limiting factor for the torque is really not generally known - perhaps
detonation is a factor - peak cylinder pressures or perhaps it is
something else. Talk to the design authority for this engine - if you
can find one.
For the few Lycoming engines I have looked at the max power is limited
to somewhere between 65 and70% at 2150 RPM.
My question is for the propeller manufacturers, when they test for
suitability on the respective engines do they take this secondary
limitation into consideration? If you are operating your engine
outside this range you may also be operating the propeller outside its
tested and approved range as well. (Bigger hitting cylinders will
augment their tendency to resonance.)
Just my thoughts on the matter - worth just exactly what you paid.
Doug
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Subject: | Re: Heavy Right Wing... |
Thanks to everyone for the great feedback on this issue!!
I went out after work tonight and had a look at the aileron alignment and sure
enough, the outboard edge of the right aileron was high by about 1/16-3/32 of
an inch. I took the hinge off the aileron and elongated the holes slightly and
reassembled, dropping the outboard side by about 1/16". I went out and took
it up to about 220mph and now - are you ready for this - it requires full RIGHT
trim! Completely the opposite from before. So, obviously I need to reduce
the drop by 50% and I should be dead-on neutral trim! Its amazing to me how
such a little movement had such a HUGE impact on the trim. No, aileron edge smooshing
necessary, by the way! Whew!
Best,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
At 09:10 AM 3/31/2011 Thursday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>Well, taking the RV-8 in for paint is getting closer and closer and I'm trying
to get all the little things that need doing done before then. Dealing with
the heavy right wing is the next thing on the list. Currently, at low speed I
have about neutral aileron trim. The faster I go, the more LEFT trim I need.
Above 200mph, I run out of left trim and the left aileron is noticeably "up",
maybe .125" or so. Both of my ailerons are "chubby" at the trailing edge.
I wanted to confirm with the List that "squeezing" the RIGHT aileron will add
a bit of lift on the RIGHT side and hopefully neutralize the issue?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Matt
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP... |
Hum, interesting. In that graph, albeit for the IO-360, the "Limiting MP For Continuous
Ops" at 26 MP is 2100 RPM. 27 MP is 2200. Assuming the IO-390 is similar,
2150 at 26.5 ought to be good to go. BTW, I flew tonight and at 26/2150
I was seeing about 10.2-10.5 GPH @ 2500ft. Better than I recalled.
Where can I get a sweet chart like that for my IO-390? I looked quickly though
the manuals that came with the engine, and I didn't see one.
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 160+ Hours TTSN - Paint job is all that's left...
At 10:07 AM 3/31/2011 Thursday, you wrote:
>Matt,
>
>I don't have an IO390 but the manual for my IO360B shows that combination as outside
of the suggested area of continuous operation - yes it was a quick look
and I didn't purely run the numbers.
>
>I would guess that combination might be detonation-prone.
>
>YMMV - see if you can get the appropriate chart for the IO390. They are a bugger
to figure out too - but there are some guidelines.
>
>Ralph
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 12:21 PM
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: Low RPM/High MP vs. High RPM/Low MP...
>>
>>
>>Dear Listers,
>>
>>With the IO-390 and Hartzell 72" CS on my RV-8, a combination of 2150 RPM and
25-26 MP gives me nice 200MPH True and about 10.5-10.8 GPH. These number are
down low, maybe 3000ft. Higher altitude gives lower GPHs. At 2150, the cockpit
is pretty quiet too.
>>
>>Increasing the RPM and Decreasing the MP doesn't really change the GPH that much,
but starts dropping the speed.
>>
>>In all configurations, I'm running LOP at about 1360 on the hottest cylinder.
Oil temps are about 178 F. Max MP at low altitude is about 28-29.
>>
>>Are there any issues running in a low-RPM, high-MP configuration as described
above?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>-
>>Matt Dralle
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