Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:59 AM - Re: Engine mounted. (Charles Kuss)
2. 08:17 AM - Re: Engine mounted. (Brian Huffaker)
3. 09:13 AM - Re: Engine mounted. (Michael Kraus)
4. 09:41 AM - Re: Engine mounted. (carl.froehlich@verizon.net)
5. 11:38 AM - Re: Engine mounted. (Charles Kuss)
6. 11:51 AM - Re: Engine mounted. (Brian Huffaker)
7. 12:25 PM - Re: Engine mounted. (Charles Kuss)
8. 07:02 PM - Re: Engine mounted. (Brian Huffaker)
9. 07:39 PM - Re: Engine mounted. (Kelly McMullen)
10. 08:15 PM - Re: Engine mounted. (Charles Kuss)
11. 08:27 PM - Re: Engine mounted. (Charles Kuss)
12. 08:39 PM - Re: Engine mounted. (Brian Huffaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
Brian,
I assume that you have a prop governor adapter mounted on the engine? If so, you
need to keep that oil line connected. The adapter and line allows you to keep
the plugs in the front of the crankshaft, which would allow you to change to
a constant speed prop at a later date, without having to replace a punctured
inner prop plug. That line and adapter will allow any excess oil a way out of
the nose of the crankshaft.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com> wrote:
> From: Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Engine mounted.
> To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 12:21 AM
> Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com>
>
>
> Got the engine hung over the weekend:
>
> http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2323.jpg
>
> Wasn't too hard to do solo, just a few times wanted some
> help. Most of
> the time extra people would have just been in the way.
>
> Did end up having to remove the oil line that ran
> from the prop govener
> to the front of the engine. I'm going to go with
> fixed pitch, but I
> assume I still need to hook up this line. What say
> yall?
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
> RV-8A 80091 Engine hung.
> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
> Brian,
> I assume that you have a prop governor adapter mounted on the engine?
I think so. Don't really know engine stuff, but there is something
squarish that had this line attached.
>If so, you need to keep that oil line connected. The adapter and line
>allows you to keep the plugs in the front of the crankshaft, which would
>allow you to change to a constant speed prop at a later date, without
>having to replace a punctured inner prop plug. That line and adapter will
>allow any excess oil a way out of the nose of the crankshaft.
I don't think I can get the old line back on, it interferes with the
engine mount. However, it would probably be easier to make a new line
than to do the crankshaft plug stuff. And, leave the the possibility of
adding a constant speed prop at some point if I come into a lot of money
or something.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 Thinking engine.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
Speaking from experience with my RV-4, the only thing I would have changed on it
was to add a constant speed prop. I gave up a lot of top end speed and performance
with the fixed pitch prop, and a lit of speed control on ascents and decents.
I flew it for 8 years and kicked myself most the time for not going with
constant speed. For me to change was a new engine (or at least crank shaft)
new prop, and a new cowling, and paint for the cowl. That was just too much
of a tear up for me. If I were to do it over again, I'd invest in a constant
speed prop without question.
It is added money up front, but it is a LOT cheaper than doing it later!
YMMV
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
>>
>> Brian,
>> I assume that you have a prop governor adapter mounted on the engine?
>
> I think so. Don't really know engine stuff, but there is something
> squarish that had this line attached.
>
>> If so, you need to keep that oil line connected. The adapter and line
>> allows you to keep the plugs in the front of the crankshaft, which would
>> allow you to change to a constant speed prop at a later date, without
>> having to replace a punctured inner prop plug. That line and adapter will
>> allow any excess oil a way out of the nose of the crankshaft.
>
> I don't think I can get the old line back on, it interferes with the
> engine mount. However, it would probably be easier to make a new line
> than to do the crankshaft plug stuff. And, leave the the possibility of
> adding a constant speed prop at some point if I come into a lot of money
> or something.
>
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
> RV-8A 80091 Thinking engine.
> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
Brian,=0A Perhaps you could email me a photo of the area where the mount an
d the oil line collide? Would a change of fitting at the governor adapter h
elp ease this issue? Is the problematic line rigid stainless steel? Or is i
t a flex hose? I am enclosing an attachment which details a small modificat
ion you "might" have to make to the block off plate at the rear of the gove
rnor adapter.=0ACharlie Kuss=0A=0A--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Brian Huffaker <bifft
@xmission.com> wrote:=0A=0A> From: Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com>=0A>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounted.=0A> To: rv-list@matronics.com=0A> Dat
Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com>=0A> =0A> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles K
@yahoo.com>=0A> >=0A> > Brian,=0A> >- I assume that you have a prop gover
nor adapter=0A> mounted on the engine?=0A> =0A> - I think so.- Don't re
ally know engine stuff,=0A> but there is something=0A> squarish that had th
is line attached.=0A> =0A> >If so, you need to keep that oil line connected
. The=0A> adapter and line=0A> >allows you to keep the plugs in the front o
f the=0A> crankshaft, which would=0A> >allow you to change to a constant sp
eed prop at a later=0A> date, without=0A> >having to replace a punctured in
ner prop plug. That=0A> line and adapter will=0A> >allow any excess oil a w
ay out of the nose of the=0A> crankshaft.=0A> =0A> - I don't think I can
get the old line back on, it=0A> interferes with the=0A> engine mount.- H
owever, it would probably be easier to=0A> make a new line=0A> than to do t
he crankshaft plug stuff.---And,=0A> leave the the possibility of=0A>
adding a constant speed prop at some point if I come into a=0A> lot of mon
ey=0A> or something.=0A> =0A> =0A> - Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission
.com)=0A> - RV-8A 80091 Thinking engine.=0A> - 1/4 Starduster II N23UT
======================0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote:
> Brian,
> Perhaps you could email me a photo of the area where the mount and the
>oil line collide? Would a change of fitting at the governor adapter help
>ease this issue? Is the problematic line rigid stainless steel? Or is it
>a flex hose? I am enclosing an attachment which details a small
>modification you "might" have to make to the block off plate at the rear
>of the governor adapter.
The line is rigid stainless steel. It ran under the right side
cylinders, then around to the back. It went through a space just above
the lower right mount point, and would hit the tube going between that and
the upper right side mount. I can take a picture tonight.
Thanks for that document, I could try to make a cover plate like the one
shown (or just buy if not too expensive). I note that on the starduster,
there is a similar cover plate, with a fitting in the center that then is
connected by a hose to the inverted oil setup. Presumably some kind of
gasket is required to bolt on the plate, the engine I have does have
mounting studs for the prop govenor.
As for the other comments, while the speed range of an RV really does
call for a constant speed, I can't justify the extra $5-10k right now.
I'm hoping fly with only another $10k or so spent, still need to buy
instruments, radios, exhaust, magnetos, and probably other stuff I'm not
remebering.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 Thinking about engine.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
Brian,=0A I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take photos of t
he area on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches, and your blan
king plate.=0A To ease the interference issue, you could simply omit the go
vernor adapter [and the shaft/gear inside it], install the block off plate
and gasket directly to the rear of the accessory housing. You can simply dr
ill and tap for a 45 or 90 degree fitting [whichever works best for your ap
plication] anywhere on the new blanking plate. FYI, you can make your own g
asket, or simply buy one.=0ACheck out the two photos in the link below. The
y show the rear of a Lycoming engine with a prop governor [flaked off black
paint] installed. The governor adapter is the part [better view in the bot
tom photo] which goes between the black governor and the accessory housing.
See=0A=0Ahttp://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=389128&pos
tcount=1=0A=0AThe gray part with the steel AN816 [straight] fitting point
ing to the right, is where your SS tube is supposed to attach. If you have
interference issues, you could do any or any combination of the following t
o cure the problem.=0A#1- Replace the AN816 [straight] fitting with an AN
82 [90 degree] or AN823 [45 degree] fitting.=0A#2- Obtain a new, longer p
iece of SS tube and bend it as required to make it work. This is experiment
al aviation, after all.=0A#3- Replace the SS tube with a fire sleeved fle
xible oil hose. This is even approved by Lycoming for certified aircraft. S
ee Lycoming SI 1435. [Brian, I've sent a copy of SI 1435 to you]=0A=0AFYI L
ycoming SI1462A also shows a nice drawing of the rear of the engine, with a
governor adapter & blanking plate. It the one on the right, on page three.
See=0A=0Ahttp://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-inst
ructions/pdfs/SI1462A.pdf=0A=0ACharlie=0A=0A--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Brian Huffa
ker <bifft@xmission.com> wrote:=0A=0A> From: Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission
.com>=0A> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounted.=0A> To: "Charles Kuss" <cha
skuss@yahoo.com>=0A> Cc: rv-list@matronics.com=0A> Date: Tuesday, August 2,
2011, 2:47 PM=0A> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss=0A> wrote:=0A> =0A> > B
rian,=0A> > Perhaps you could email me a photo of the area where=0A> the mo
unt and the=0A> >oil line collide? Would a change of fitting at the=0A> gov
ernor adapter help=0A> >ease this issue? Is the problematic line rigid=0A>
stainless steel? Or is it=0A> >a flex hose? I am enclosing an attachment wh
ich details=0A> a small=0A> >modification you "might" have to make to the b
lock off=0A> plate at the rear=0A> >of the governor adapter.=0A> =0A> - T
he line is rigid stainless steel.- It ran=0A> under the right side=0A> cy
linders, then around to the back.- It went through a=0A> space just above
=0A> the lower right mount point, and would hit the tube going=0A> between
that and=0A> the upper right side mount.- I can take a picture=0A> tonigh
t.=0A> =0A> - Thanks for that document, I could try to make a=0A> cover p
late like the one=0A> shown (or just buy if not too expensive).- I note t
hat=0A> on the starduster,=0A> there is a similar cover plate, with a fitti
ng in the=0A> center that then is=0A> connected by a hose to the inverted o
il setup.-=0A> Presumably some kind of=0A> gasket is required to bolt on
the plate, the engine I have=0A> does have=0A> mounting studs for the prop
govenor.=0A> =0A> - As for the other comments, while the speed range of
=0A> an RV really does=0A> call for a constant speed, I can't justify the e
xtra $5-10k=0A> right now.=0A> I'm hoping fly with only another $10k or so
spent, still=0A> need to buy=0A> instruments, radios, exhaust, magnetos, an
d probably other=0A> stuff I'm not=0A> remebering.=0A> =0A> - Brian Huffa
ker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)=0A> - RV-8A 80091- Thinking about engine
.=0A> - 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying=0A>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote:
> Brian,
> I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take photos of the area
>on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches, and your blanking
>plate.
http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg
this shows the line as close as I can get to where I took it off of. It
was attached to where the red plug now is. Looking at it, it may be an
aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings are all Al.
http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg
shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate, whoever pickled the engine
took off the accessories and then covered the holes with aluminum tape.
> To ease the interference issue, you could simply omit the governor
>adapter [and the shaft/gear inside it], install the block off plate and
>gasket directly to the rear of the accessory housing. You can simply
>drill and tap for a 45 or 90 degree fitting [whichever works best for
>your application] anywhere on the new blanking plate. FYI, you can make
>your own gasket, or simply buy one.
That would probably be best, why carry the weight if I'm not going to use
it. Could even T off of that line and hook it up to the inverted oil
seperator like on the Starduster. As for making a gasket, I suppose the
auto form-a-gasket stuff would work?
>Check out the two photos in the link below. They show the rear of a
>Lycoming engine with a prop governor [flaked off black paint] installed.
>The governor adapter is the part [better view in the bottom photo] which
>goes between the black governor and the accessory housing. See
>http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=389128&postcount=
1
>The gray part with the steel AN816 [straight] fitting pointing to the
>right, is where your SS tube is supposed to attach. If you have
>interference issues, you could do any or any combination of the following
>to cure the problem.
yep, except the fitting is Al instead of steel.
>#1- Replace the AN816 [straight] fitting with an AN82 [90 degree] or
> AN823 [45 degree] fitting.
>#2- Obtain a new, longer piece of SS tube and bend it as required to mak
e
> it work. This is experimental aviation, after all.
this would probably be the easiest, cheapest and lightest way to go. Be
a bit tricky to route around the mount, I know the engine moves alot on
shutdown and startup.
>#3- Replace the SS tube with a fire sleeved flexible oil hose. This is
> even approved by Lycoming for certified aircraft. See Lycoming SI
> 1435. [Brian, I've sent a copy of SI 1435 to you]
Thanks for all the help, this is clearing up my questions very well.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
Keep in mind that aluminum fittings are banned by AD as is an aluminum
oil line. You have to have either aircraft hose or stainless line with
steel fittings. Yeah, I know all the arguments on ADs. This is one you
don't want to ignore, as you can lose all the engine oil in a flash if
it breaks.
On 8/2/2011 6:58 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
>> Brian,
>> I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take photos of the area
>> on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches, and your blanking
>> plate.
> http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg
> this shows the line as close as I can get to where I took it off of. It
> was attached to where the red plug now is. Looking at it, it may be an
> aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings are all Al.
>
> http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg
> shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate, whoever pickled the engine
> took off the accessories and then covered the holes with aluminum tape.
> /font></pre>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
Kelly gives good advice here. Lycoming went to the SS tube because of failures
of the old, aluminum tube.
Charlie
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
> From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounted.
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:36 PM
> Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Keep in mind that aluminum fittings are banned by AD as is
> an aluminum oil line. You have to have either aircraft hose
> or stainless line with steel fittings. Yeah, I know all the
> arguments on ADs. This is one you don't want to ignore, as
> you can lose all the engine oil in a flash if it breaks.
>
>
> On 8/2/2011 6:58 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote:
> > On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote:
> >
> >> Brian,
> >> I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also
> take photos of the area
> >> on the rear of the engine where the SS line
> attaches, and your blanking
> >> plate.
> > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg
> > this shows the line as close as I can get to where I
> took it off of. It
> > was attached to where the red plug now is.
> Looking at it, it may be an
> > aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings
> are all Al.
> >
> > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg
> > shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate,
> whoever pickled the engine
> > took off the accessories and then covered the holes
> with aluminum tape.
> > /font></pre>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
Brian,
Replace that aluminum fitting with the correct steel one. The fittings at both
ends should be made of steel.
FYI, I may have given you a bum steer regarding the part numbers for the fittings.
The AN816, AN822 & AN823 fittings are NPT to flare. Check the fitting in
the governor adapter. It may well be straight thread, in which case, the numbers
above are not correct. Best to go by the part numbers listed in the two Service
Instructions I included in the earlier email. You will note that the drawing
in one of the SIs I sent, shows a 45 degree fitting pointed up. That may well
be what you need, with a modified SS tube.
FYI, it is VERY important to install the Adel clamps as shown in the SI to support
the SS tube. Failure to install them could cause the tube to fail, from excessive
vibration.
Charlie
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com> wrote:
> From: Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounted.
> To: "Charles Kuss" <chaskuss@yahoo.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 9:58 PM
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss
> wrote:
>
> > Brian,
> > I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take
> photos of the area
> >on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches,
> and your blanking
> >plate.
>
> http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg
> this shows the line as close as I can get to where I took
> it off of. It
> was attached to where the red plug now is. Looking at
> it, it may be an
> aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings are
> all Al.
>
> http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg
> shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate,
> whoever pickled the engine
> took off the accessories and then covered the holes with
> aluminum tape.
>
> > To ease the interference issue, you could simply omit
> the governor
> >adapter [and the shaft/gear inside it], install the
> block off plate and
> >gasket directly to the rear of the accessory housing.
> You can simply
> >drill and tap for a 45 or 90 degree fitting [whichever
> works best for
> >your application] anywhere on the new blanking plate.
> FYI, you can make
> >your own gasket, or simply buy one.
>
> That would probably be best, why carry the weight if I'm
> not going to use
> it. Could even T off of that line and hook it up to
> the inverted oil
> seperator like on the Starduster. As for making a
> gasket, I suppose the
> auto form-a-gasket stuff would work?
>
> >Check out the two photos in the link below. They show
> the rear of a
> >Lycoming engine with a prop governor [flaked off black
> paint] installed.
> >The governor adapter is the part [better view in the
> bottom photo] which
> >goes between the black governor and the accessory
> housing. See
>
> >http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=389128&postcount=1
>
> >The gray part with the steel AN816 [straight] fitting
> pointing to the
> >right, is where your SS tube is supposed to attach. If
> you have
> >interference issues, you could do any or any
> combination of the following
> >to cure the problem.
>
>
> yep, except the fitting is Al instead of steel.
>
>
> >#1 Replace the AN816 [straight] fitting with an AN82
> [90 degree] or
> > AN823 [45 degree] fitting.
> >#2 Obtain a new, longer piece of SS tube and bend it
> as required to make
> > it work. This is experimental aviation,
> after all.
>
> this would probably be the easiest, cheapest and
> lightest way to go. Be
> a bit tricky to route around the mount, I know the engine
> moves alot on
> shutdown and startup.
>
> >#3 Replace the SS tube with a fire sleeved flexible
> oil hose. This is
> > even approved by Lycoming for certified
> aircraft. See Lycoming SI
> > 1435. [Brian, I've sent a copy of SI 1435
> to you]
>
> Thanks for all the help, this is clearing up my
> questions very well.
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
> RV-8A 80091
> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000"
> face="courier new,courier">
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounted. |
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
> Kelly gives good advice here. Lycoming went to the SS tube because of
>failures of the old, aluminum tube.
All the more reason to replace.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
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