RV-List Digest Archive

Sat 04/14/12


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:34 PM - paint shops (Lance Sorensen)
     2. 03:24 PM - take off with half flaps (thomas sargent)
     3. 04:23 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
     4. 05:57 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Louis Willig)
     5. 07:35 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Kelly McMullen)
     6. 08:09 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Robin Marks)
     7. 09:55 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (thomas sargent)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:34:26 PM PST US
    From: Lance Sorensen <lancej@fairpoint.net>
    Subject: paint shops
    Is there anyone who knows of a good paint shop located in Washington, Oregon or Idaho that could do a good job painting my RV9A for a "reasonable" price? I know that aircraft paint shops are getting to be far and few between but there must be a few left. Thanks. Lance Sorensen Selah, WA


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:24:29 PM PST US
    Subject: take off with half flaps
    From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
    I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I let the nose stay down ( lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not as energetic as with a constant speed. I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for take off, I guess in order to shorten ground roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end of the runway. What is the recommended procedure for the half flap take off? When do you drop the flaps? How do you manage the pitch to get the most out of it? thanks, -- Tom Sargent


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:23:04 PM PST US
    From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
    Subject: Re: take off with half flaps
    A rule of thumb I learned from my instructor is (before takeoff roll) to lower the flaps to be even with the full deflected aileron. This gives good lift without introducing too much drag. With a nose gear I use full up elevator during the takeoff roll until the nose gear is off the runway. Raise the flaps as soon as you are clear of any obstacles. Dan N766DH about 500 hours flying since 2004 In a message dated 4/14/2012 6:26:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sarg314@gmail.com writes: I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I let the nose stay down (= lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not as energetic as with a constant speed. I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for take off, I guess in order to shorten ground roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end of the runway. What is the recommended procedure for the half flap take off? When do you drop the flaps? How do you manage the pitch to get the most out of it? thanks, -- Tom Sargent (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:57:51 PM PST US
    From: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: take off with half flaps
    Tom, I do not want to sound like a smart ass, but why do you want to use your flaps on take-off, other than a very short field or soft field. I remember that in the old days, Van was flying out of a very, very short grass strip ( ~ 1500 ft.). For him, it would make sense. But the average 160 hp F/P RV will take off in 800 ft. or less. The 180 with a C/S will do it 400-500 feet. I'm only at 1/2 throttle when my RV-4 is off the ground at 1000 feet or less. I actually never use flaps to land unless the strip is less than 2500 ft. with trees. This has something to do with the fact that my manual flaps are very difficult to raise at over 70 knots. I had a problem one day with them, and decided to see what the difference was between Flaps and No Flaps landings. There were only minor differences. And "go arounds" were simpler because I didn't have to worry about the flaps. Now, maybe my C/S prop helps to slow me down in the later part of the approach. But it doesn't slow me down over the numbers. RV's are incredibly dirty when your doing a round out at 65-70 mph. They slow down and descend like a J-3 Cub. Which, of course, doesn't even have flaps. When people see an RV-4, 6, 7 or 8 they always think of it as a "high speed super demon" They always want to know how fast it goes. I like to tell them how slow it can go ( Then I brag about my 3000 ft./min climb and 200 mph top speed) :-) Finally, please note; I rank in the bottom half of the "pilot ability rating" . I'm am just reporting my experiences after 13 years. Louis Willig At 06:22 PM 4/14/2012, you wrote: >I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I >let the nose stay down (= lower climb rate) >while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise >the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed >pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not as >energetic as with a constant speed. > >I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for >take off, I guess in order to shorten ground >roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end of >the runway. What is the recommended procedure >for the half flap take off? When do you drop >the flaps? How do you manage the pitch to get the most out of it? > >thanks, >-- >Tom Sargent >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:35:25 PM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: take off with half flaps
    Well, the highest percentage of accidents are loss of control on either landing or takeoff. The sooner you leave the ground, the lower the risk. Flaps reduce ground roll, which reduces wear and tear on your tires and landing gear. IMHO, flaps should be used except when you have a good reason not to, like strong crosswinds, undulating runway surface, etc. On 4/14/2012 5:55 PM, Louis Willig wrote: > > Tom, > > I do not want to sound like a smart ass, but why do you want to use > your flaps on take-off, other than a very short field or soft field. I > remember that in the old days, Van was flying out of a very, very > short grass strip ( ~ 1500 ft.). For him, it would make sense. But the > average 160 hp F/P RV will take off in 800 ft. or less. The 180 with a > C/S will do it 400-500 feet. I'm only at 1/2 throttle when my RV-4 is > off the ground at 1000 feet or less. > > I actually never use flaps to land unless the strip is less than 2500 > ft. with trees. This has something to do with the fact that my manual > flaps are very difficult to raise at over 70 knots. I had a problem > one day with them, and decided to see what the difference was between > Flaps and No Flaps landings. There were only minor differences. And > "go arounds" were simpler because I didn't have to worry about the > flaps. Now, maybe my C/S prop helps to slow me down in the later part > of the approach. But it doesn't > slow me down over the numbers. RV's are incredibly dirty when your > doing a round out at 65-70 mph. They slow down and descend like a J-3 > Cub. Which, of course, doesn't even have flaps. When people see an > RV-4, 6, 7 or 8 they always think of it as a "high speed super demon" > They always want to know how fast it goes. I like to tell them how > slow it can go ( Then I brag about my 3000 ft./min climb and 200 mph > top speed) :-) > > Finally, please note; I rank in the bottom half of the "pilot ability > rating" . I'm am just reporting my experiences after 13 years. > > Louis Willig > > > At 06:22 PM 4/14/2012, you wrote: >> I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I let the nose stay >> down (= lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then >> raise the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop, >> so take offs are not as energetic as with a constant speed. >> >> I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for take off, I guess in >> order to shorten ground roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end >> of the runway. What is the recommended procedure for the half flap >> take off? When do you drop the flaps? How do you manage the pitch >> to get the most out of it? >> >> thanks, >> -- >> Tom Sargent >> > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:09:02 PM PST US
    From: Robin Marks <robin@PaintTheWeb.com>
    Subject: take off with half flaps
    Adding to Kelly's point. I like to unweight the front end ASAP and a little flaps helps there too. I don't think half flaps is right. Suggest you try 1 notch or the equivalent. I put a few degrees in on my 8A go FWF and don't touch anything but trim till I can make the field. Then I reconfigure. I suggest you go out some nice morning and try 6 TO's in various configurations to see how it feels. Robin > Well, the highest percentage of accidents are loss of control on either landing or takeoff. The sooner you leave the ground, the lower the risk. Flaps reduce ground roll, which reduces wear and tear on your tires and landing gear. IMHO, flaps should be used except when you have a good reason not to, like strong crosswinds, undulating runway surface, etc.


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:55:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: take off with half flaps
    From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
    The reason I am asking is to find out how to best do a short field take off in this plane. I do landings with and without flaps, but my takes offs are always the same. -- Tom Sargent




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