Today's Message Index:
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1. 02:34 PM - paint shops (Lance Sorensen)
2. 03:24 PM - take off with half flaps (thomas sargent)
3. 04:23 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
4. 05:57 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Louis Willig)
5. 07:35 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Kelly McMullen)
6. 08:09 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (Robin Marks)
7. 09:55 PM - Re: take off with half flaps (thomas sargent)
Message 1
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Is there anyone who knows of a good paint shop located in Washington,
Oregon or Idaho that could do a good job
painting my RV9A for a "reasonable" price? I know that aircraft paint
shops are getting to be far and few between
but there must be a few left.
Thanks.
Lance Sorensen
Selah, WA
Message 2
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Subject: | take off with half flaps |
I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I let the nose stay down (
lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise the nose
to hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not
as energetic as with a constant speed.
I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for take off, I guess in order
to shorten ground roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end of the
runway. What is the recommended procedure for the half flap take off?
When do you drop the flaps? How do you manage the pitch to get the most
out of it?
thanks,
--
Tom Sargent
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: take off with half flaps |
A rule of thumb I learned from my instructor is (before takeoff roll) to
lower the flaps to be even with the full deflected aileron.
This gives good lift without introducing too much drag. With a nose gear
I use full up elevator during the takeoff roll until the nose gear is off
the runway. Raise the flaps as soon as you are clear of any obstacles.
Dan
N766DH about 500 hours flying since 2004
In a message dated 4/14/2012 6:26:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
sarg314@gmail.com writes:
I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I let the nose stay down (=
lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise the nose
to hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not
as energetic as with a constant speed.
I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for take off, I guess in
order to shorten ground roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end of the
runway. What is the recommended procedure for the half flap take off? When
do you drop the flaps? How do you manage the pitch to get the most out of
it?
thanks,
--
Tom Sargent
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: take off with half flaps |
Tom,
I do not want to sound like a smart ass, but why
do you want to use your flaps on take-off, other
than a very short field or soft field. I remember
that in the old days, Van was flying out of a
very, very short grass strip ( ~ 1500 ft.). For
him, it would make sense. But the average 160 hp
F/P RV will take off in 800 ft. or less. The 180
with a C/S will do it 400-500 feet. I'm only at
1/2 throttle when my RV-4 is off the ground at 1000 feet or less.
I actually never use flaps to land unless the
strip is less than 2500 ft. with trees. This has
something to do with the fact that my manual
flaps are very difficult to raise at over 70
knots. I had a problem one day with them, and
decided to see what the difference was between
Flaps and No Flaps landings. There were only
minor differences. And "go arounds" were simpler
because I didn't have to worry about the flaps.
Now, maybe my C/S prop helps to slow me down in
the later part of the approach. But it doesn't
slow me down over the numbers. RV's are
incredibly dirty when your doing a round out at
65-70 mph. They slow down and descend like a J-3
Cub. Which, of course, doesn't even have flaps.
When people see an RV-4, 6, 7 or 8 they always
think of it as a "high speed super demon" They
always want to know how fast it goes. I like to
tell them how slow it can go ( Then I brag about
my 3000 ft./min climb and 200 mph top speed) :-)
Finally, please note; I rank in the bottom half
of the "pilot ability rating" . I'm am just
reporting my experiences after 13 years.
Louis Willig
At 06:22 PM 4/14/2012, you wrote:
>I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I
>let the nose stay down (= lower climb rate)
>while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise
>the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed
>pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not as
>energetic as with a constant speed.
>
>I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for
>take off, I guess in order to shorten ground
>roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end of
>the runway. What is the recommended procedure
>for the half flap take off? When do you drop
>the flaps? How do you manage the pitch to get the most out of it?
>
>thanks,
>--
>Tom Sargent
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: take off with half flaps |
Well, the highest percentage of accidents are loss of control on either
landing or takeoff. The sooner you leave the ground, the lower the risk.
Flaps reduce ground roll, which reduces wear and tear on your tires and
landing gear. IMHO, flaps should be used except when you have a good
reason not to, like strong crosswinds, undulating runway surface, etc.
On 4/14/2012 5:55 PM, Louis Willig wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I do not want to sound like a smart ass, but why do you want to use
> your flaps on take-off, other than a very short field or soft field. I
> remember that in the old days, Van was flying out of a very, very
> short grass strip ( ~ 1500 ft.). For him, it would make sense. But the
> average 160 hp F/P RV will take off in 800 ft. or less. The 180 with a
> C/S will do it 400-500 feet. I'm only at 1/2 throttle when my RV-4 is
> off the ground at 1000 feet or less.
>
> I actually never use flaps to land unless the strip is less than 2500
> ft. with trees. This has something to do with the fact that my manual
> flaps are very difficult to raise at over 70 knots. I had a problem
> one day with them, and decided to see what the difference was between
> Flaps and No Flaps landings. There were only minor differences. And
> "go arounds" were simpler because I didn't have to worry about the
> flaps. Now, maybe my C/S prop helps to slow me down in the later part
> of the approach. But it doesn't
> slow me down over the numbers. RV's are incredibly dirty when your
> doing a round out at 65-70 mph. They slow down and descend like a J-3
> Cub. Which, of course, doesn't even have flaps. When people see an
> RV-4, 6, 7 or 8 they always think of it as a "high speed super demon"
> They always want to know how fast it goes. I like to tell them how
> slow it can go ( Then I brag about my 3000 ft./min climb and 200 mph
> top speed) :-)
>
> Finally, please note; I rank in the bottom half of the "pilot ability
> rating" . I'm am just reporting my experiences after 13 years.
>
> Louis Willig
>
>
> At 06:22 PM 4/14/2012, you wrote:
>> I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps. I let the nose stay
>> down (= lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then
>> raise the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop,
>> so take offs are not as energetic as with a constant speed.
>>
>> I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for take off, I guess in
>> order to shorten ground roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end
>> of the runway. What is the recommended procedure for the half flap
>> take off? When do you drop the flaps? How do you manage the pitch
>> to get the most out of it?
>>
>> thanks,
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>>
>
>
-----
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Message 6
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Subject: | take off with half flaps |
Adding to Kelly's point. I like to unweight the front end ASAP and a little flaps
helps there too. I don't think half flaps is right. Suggest you try 1 notch
or the equivalent. I put a few degrees in on my 8A go FWF and don't touch anything
but trim till I can make the field. Then I reconfigure.
I suggest you go out some nice morning and try 6 TO's in various configurations
to see how it feels.
Robin
>
Well, the highest percentage of accidents are loss of control on either landing
or takeoff. The sooner you leave the ground, the lower the risk.
Flaps reduce ground roll, which reduces wear and tear on your tires and landing
gear. IMHO, flaps should be used except when you have a good reason not to,
like strong crosswinds, undulating runway surface, etc.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: take off with half flaps |
The reason I am asking is to find out how to best do a short field take off
in this plane. I do landings with and without flaps, but my takes offs are
always the same.
--
Tom Sargent
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