---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/16/12: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:06 AM - Re: ELT antenna location RV8A (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: ELT antenna location RV8A (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 3. 06:42 AM - Vans standard fuel selector valve overhaul (Bill Judge) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: ELT antenna location RV8A (Kelly McMullen) 5. 07:40 AM - Re: ELT antenna location RV8A (thomas sargent) 6. 07:41 AM - Re: ELT antenna location RV8A (Carl Froehlich) 7. 08:02 AM - Re: ELT antenna location RV8A (Kelly McMullen) 8. 09:16 AM - Re: Vans standard fuel selector valve overhaul (John Fasching) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:38 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna location RV8A I can't believe a DAR would OK these internal ELT antenna installations! No matter what an antenna analyzer says, these things can't possibly radiate much beyond about maybe 100 ft. I'm talking about antennas under the empennage fairing, and mounted so the whole length is near the metal structure of the airplane. No one wants to put the ELT antenna outside and create drag, but that's where it should be. I couldn't find in the manual for my AK-50 where it warns against this type of installation, except it says "External Antenna." I'm sure they are talking about external to the airplane. We all want our COM antenna to radiate well, so most of them are mounted external to the airplane. An ELT is a waste of money with the antenna mounted like so many are. I wish some knowledgeable person with the right equipment would make some field strength measurements on these installations vs. some with the antenna mounted external to the airplane. If the results are comparable, I'll gladly eat my words. I'm sure this won't be a very popular post, but it needed to be said. Dan Hopper RV-7A Flying since 2004 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:29 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna location RV8A I meant to say AK-450. In a message dated 4/16/2012 9:07:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Hopperdhh@aol.com writes: I can't believe a DAR would OK these internal ELT antenna installations! No matter what an antenna analyzer says, these things can't possibly radiate much beyond about maybe 100 ft. I'm talking about antennas under the empennage fairing, and mounted so the whole length is near the metal structure of the airplane. No one wants to put the ELT antenna outside and create drag, but that's where it should be. I couldn't find in the manual for my AK-50 where it warns against this type of installation, except it says "External Antenna." I'm sure they are talking about external to the airplane. We all want our COM antenna to radiate well, so most of them are mounted external to the airplane. An ELT is a waste of money with the antenna mounted like so many are. I wish some knowledgeable person with the right equipment would make some field strength measurements on these installations vs. some with the antenna mounted external to the airplane. If the results are comparable, I'll gladly eat my words. I'm sure this won't be a very popular post, but it needed to be said. Dan Hopper RV-7A Flying since 2004 (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:20 AM PST US From: Bill Judge Subject: RV-List: Vans standard fuel selector valve overhaul Greetings, Has anyone on the list overhauled a vans standard fuel selector valve? If you have I've got a few questions: How empty do the fuel tanks have to be? Is EZ-Turn Fuel lube the right stuff to use? Any gotcha's I should worry about? Thanks, Bill Judge N84WJ, RV-8, 732 hrs http://rv-8.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:22 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna location RV8A Well, your assumptions may not be entirely correct. The late model Mooneys have a certified 406 antenna installation under the fiberglass fairing in front of vertical stabilizer (mostly horizontal orientation). They were able to get it to pass whatever tests were required. As for range, I've had my antique ELT-10 go off while the plane was in my hangar, and it was picked up by satellite. Yes, surrounded by 4 metal walls and roof. Given the extra power of 406 transmitters, I doubt it is much of an issue. Remember what most DAR's focus on...obvious flight safety issues and paperwork. I don't think ELT is going to register much in their mind beyond the fact that one is present. Kelly On 4/16/2012 6:04 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > I can't believe a DAR would OK these internal ELT antenna > installations! No matter what an antenna analyzer says, these things > can't possibly radiate much beyond about maybe 100 ft. I'm talking > about antennas under the empennage fairing, and mounted so the whole > length is near the metal structure of the airplane. > No one wants to put the ELT antenna outside and create drag, but > that's where it should be. I couldn't find in the manual for my AK-50 > where it warns against this type of installation, except it says > "External Antenna." I'm sure they are talking about external to the > airplane. > We all want our COM antenna to radiate well, so most of them are > mounted external to the airplane. An ELT is a waste of money with the > antenna mounted like so many are. > I wish some knowledgeable person with the right equipment would make > some field strength measurements on these installations vs. some with > the antenna mounted external to the airplane. If the results are > comparable, I'll gladly eat my words. > I'm sure this won't be a very popular post, but it needed to be said. > Dan Hopper > RV-7A > Flying since 2004 > * > > > * ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna location RV8A From: thomas sargent I have to agree with Dan. The inside-the-plane ELT antenna installations I see so commonly just have to distort the antenna pattern A LOT. If an antenna has been designed to work in the a strange place like that, then it could concievably be tuned to work better. But an antenna designed to be outside the plane should be mounted outside the plane. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:39 AM PST US From: Carl Froehlich Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna location RV8A You have a point, but... I believe the best place to mount the ELT antenna in under the Empennage fai ring. I fully acknowledge that the antenna's performance will be less than t he same antenna mounted on top (or bottom) of the fuselage, clear of all obs tacles. So now overlay why we have this antenna. We do not care much about how well it performs with the airplane parked on the ramp. We wish it to work in an y configuration we may find ourselves in a hard, off field landing. Every p hoto I've seen of airplane crashes tells me the most survivable portion of t he plane is the intersection of the horizontal and vertical stabilizer. If y ou mount your antenna in a less survivable place, how well it performs befor e the crash makes little difference if the airplane is on top of it. Most RV's I've seen have the ELT antenna mounted as I suggest. I tested min e and it appeared to work as well as others that were mounted on top of the f uselage. This test was just a single data point in an uncontrolled environm ent. Carl On Apr 16, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > I meant to say AK-450. > > In a message dated 4/16/2012 9:07:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Hopperdhh @aol.com writes: > > I can't believe a DAR would OK these internal ELT antenna installations! N o matter what an antenna analyzer says, these things can't possibly radiate m uch beyond about maybe 100 ft. I'm talking about antennas under the empenna ge fairing, and mounted so the whole length is near the metal structure of t he airplane > No one wants to put the ELT antenna outside and create drag, but that's wh ere it should be. I couldn't find in the manual for my AK-50 where it warns against this type of installation, except it says "External Antenna." I'm s ure they are talking about external to the airplane. > > We all want our COM antenna to radiate well, so most of them are mounted e xternal to the airplane. An ELT is a waste of money with the antenna mounte d like so many are. > > I wish some knowledgeable person with the right equipment would make some f ield strength measurements on these installations vs. some with the antenna m ounted external to the airplane. If the results are comparable, I'll gladly e at my words. > > I'm sure this won't be a very popular post, but it needed to be said. > > Dan Hopper > RV-7A > Flying since 2004 > > > > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List > s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:34 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna location RV8A Excellent points. Also, you want antenna perpendicular to the direction of the receiving antenna. Well, look at the direction of a satellite. In many off airport/field landings the airframe winds up either nose low/tail high, or upside down. Unless vertical stab protects the antenna, many will get broken. On 4/16/2012 7:41 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > You have a point, but... > > I believe the best place to mount the ELT antenna in under the > Empennage fairing. I fully acknowledge that the antenna's performance > will be less than the same antenna mounted on top (or bottom) of the > fuselage, clear of all obstacles. > > So now overlay why we have this antenna. We do not care much about > how well it performs with the airplane parked on the ramp. We wish it > to work in any configuration we may find ourselves in a hard, off > field landing. Every photo I've seen of airplane crashes tells me the > most survivable portion of the plane is the intersection of the > horizontal and vertical stabilizer. If you mount your antenna in a > less survivable place, how well it performs before the crash makes > little difference if the airplane is on top of it. > > Most RV's I've seen have the ELT antenna mounted as I suggest. I > tested mine and it appeared to work as well as others that were > mounted on top of the fuselage. This test was just a single data > point in an uncontrolled environment. > > Carl > > > On Apr 16, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com > wrote: > >> I meant to say AK-450. >> In a message dated 4/16/2012 9:07:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> Hopperdhh@aol.com writes: >> >> I can't believe a DAR would OK these internal ELT antenna >> installations! No matter what an antenna analyzer says, these >> things can't possibly radiate much beyond about maybe 100 ft. >> I'm talking about antennas under the empennage fairing, and >> mounted so the whole length is near the metal structure of the >> airplane >> No one wants to put the ELT antenna outside and create drag, but >> that's where it should be. I couldn't find in the manual for my >> AK-50 where it warns against this type of installation, except it >> says "External Antenna." I'm sure they are talking about >> external to the airplane. >> We all want our COM antenna to radiate well, so most of them are >> mounted external to the airplane. An ELT is a waste of money >> with the antenna mounted like so many are. >> I wish some knowledgeable person with the right equipment would >> make some field strength measurements on these installations vs. >> some with the antenna mounted external to the airplane. If the >> results are comparable, I'll gladly eat my words. >> I'm sure this won't be a very popular post, but it needed to be said. >> Dan Hopper >> RV-7A >> Flying since 2004 >> >> * >> >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> s.matronics.com/ ">http://forums.matronics.com >> p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> * >> >> ================================== >> /www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> ================================== >> cs.com >> ================================== >> matronics.com/contribution >> ================================== >> >> * > * > > > * ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:05 AM PST US From: "John Fasching" Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans standard fuel selector valve overhaul Bill, I had, but sold, an RV6A that once had a standard Van's fuel selector - the brass one - I had replaced it with a fancier one and still have the original laying on a shelf in the hangar...its yours for the cost of mailing it to you if you want it. John at Salida, CO n29cx@ridgeviewtel.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.