Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:48 AM - Re:Vans Filtered air box (Fred Stucklen)
2. 05:19 AM - Re: Re:Vans Filtered air box (Carl Froehlich)
3. 05:39 AM - Re: Re:Vans Filtered air box (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Re:Vans Filtered air box (Denis Walsh)
5. 06:48 AM - Re: Re:Vans Filtered air box (Carl Froehlich)
6. 11:35 AM - Re: Re:Vans Filtered air box (Dale Ensing)
7. 12:07 PM - Re: Re:Vans Filtered air box (George, Neal Capt 505 TRS/DOJ)
8. 05:30 PM - Re: Re:Vans Filtered air box (Denis Walsh)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
Another potential problem is the air filter wearing through the bottom of
the air box. Over time, the fiberglass will be weakened to the point where
the bottom of the air box falls out. I've had to re-fiberglass this area to
strengthen the air box....
Fred Stucklen
RV-7A N924RV Flying
RV-6A N926RV (Sold after 875 Hrs.)
RV-6A N925RV (Sold after 2008 Hrs.)
Time: 10:25:35 AM PST US
From: "Ernie Amadio" <eamadio@cogeco.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Re:Vans Filtered air box
I have just experienced an unusual but potentialy dangerous incident with
the filtered air box from Vans.It is instaled on my Starduster Too with an
O-360 Lyc. The instal is as per the instructions and drawings that came with
it including the fiberglass scoop.
On a short XC, at some point, the carb heat hose from the exhaust muff
seperated from the flange on the hot air box, it lay on the top of the box
pointed at the carb body less than 4 inches away, pumping hot air directly
onto the carb.
On landing the engine was cutting out and barley made it off the run way
before quitting. THE ENGINE REFUSED TO RESTART.
On investigation the hose was found seperated as described, and re-attached.
After sitting for an hour with the cowls open into the wind, it started on
the second blade and we were on owr way with no further problems.
Whether the hose clamp came loose on its own or I had failed to sufficiently
tighten it I don't know ,however, it is now tight and saftey wired and
routinley checked at every preflight.
For your information and consideration.
Ernie Amadio
RV-6 Slow build
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
I added a piece of .032 aluminum in the bottom of the airbox to solve the wear
problem. The aluminum also makes the alternate air door fitting in the bottom
(fuel injected engines) easier.
The other problem I had with the airbox is two top plates cracked at the mounting
holes, the cracks going all the way to the edge. I fixed this problem by adding
a .025 piece of aluminum angle between the forward most lower air box bolt
and a bolt in the case of the engine. This vertical brace eliminates the airbox
flexing problem.
Carl
On May 24, 2012, at 7:47 AM, "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Another potential problem is the air filter wearing through the bottom of
> the air box. Over time, the fiberglass will be weakened to the point where
> the bottom of the air box falls out. I've had to re-fiberglass this area to
> strengthen the air box....
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-7A N924RV Flying
> RV-6A N926RV (Sold after 875 Hrs.)
> RV-6A N925RV (Sold after 2008 Hrs.)
>
>
> Time: 10:25:35 AM PST US
> From: "Ernie Amadio" <eamadio@cogeco.ca>
> Subject: RV-List: Re:Vans Filtered air box
>
> I have just experienced an unusual but potentialy dangerous incident with
> the filtered air box from Vans.It is instaled on my Starduster Too with an
> O-360 Lyc. The instal is as per the instructions and drawings that came with
> it including the fiberglass scoop.
>
> On a short XC, at some point, the carb heat hose from the exhaust muff
> seperated from the flange on the hot air box, it lay on the top of the box
> pointed at the carb body less than 4 inches away, pumping hot air directly
> onto the carb.
>
> On landing the engine was cutting out and barley made it off the run way
> before quitting. THE ENGINE REFUSED TO RESTART.
>
> On investigation the hose was found seperated as described, and re-attached.
> After sitting for an hour with the cowls open into the wind, it started on
> the second blade and we were on owr way with no further problems.
>
> Whether the hose clamp came loose on its own or I had failed to sufficiently
> tighten it I don't know ,however, it is now tight and saftey wired and
> routinley checked at every preflight.
>
> For your information and consideration.
>
> Ernie Amadio
> RV-6 Slow build
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
Tom Berge and Doug Weiler report that switching to a cork gasket rather than
a paper one of between the upper plate on the servo/carb helps alleviate the
cracking problem.
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 12:18:44 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Vans Filtered air box
I added a piece of .032 aluminum in the bottom of the airbox to solve the
wear problem. The aluminum also makes the alternate air door fitting in the
bottom (fuel injected engines) easier.
The other problem I had with the airbox is two top plates cracked at the
mounting holes, the cracks going all the way to the edge. I fixed this
problem by adding a .025 piece of aluminum angle between the forward most
lower air box bolt and a bolt in the case of the engine. This vertical
brace eliminates the airbox flexing problem.
Carl
On May 24, 2012, at 7:47 AM, "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Another potential problem is the air filter wearing through the bottom of
> the air box. Over time, the fiberglass will be weakened to the point
where
> the bottom of the air box falls out. I've had to re-fiberglass this area
to
> strengthen the air box....
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-7A N924RV Flying
> RV-6A N926RV (Sold after 875 Hrs.)
> RV-6A N925RV (Sold after 2008 Hrs.)
>
>
> Time: 10:25:35 AM PST US
> From: "Ernie Amadio" <eamadio@cogeco.ca>
> Subject: RV-List: Re:Vans Filtered air box
>
> I have just experienced an unusual but potentialy dangerous incident with
> the filtered air box from Vans.It is instaled on my Starduster Too with an
> O-360 Lyc. The instal is as per the instructions and drawings that came
with
> it including the fiberglass scoop.
>
> On a short XC, at some point, the carb heat hose from the exhaust muff
> seperated from the flange on the hot air box, it lay on the top of the box
> pointed at the carb body less than 4 inches away, pumping hot air directly
> onto the carb.
>
> On landing the engine was cutting out and barley made it off the run way
> before quitting. THE ENGINE REFUSED TO RESTART.
>
> On investigation the hose was found seperated as described, and
re-attached.
> After sitting for an hour with the cowls open into the wind, it started on
> the second blade and we were on owr way with no further problems.
>
> Whether the hose clamp came loose on its own or I had failed to
sufficiently
> tighten it I don't know ,however, it is now tight and saftey wired and
> routinley checked at every preflight.
>
> For your information and consideration.
>
> Ernie Amadio
> RV-6 Slow build
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
Note: Please excuse the long post. I didn't have time to write a short
one.
The FAB has fascinated me over the past 20 years. It seems to work
really well. It is a "different" design so it has puzzled me at times.
Here are some observations:
First there are different models which behave and wear differently. the
O 320 one is deeper than the O 360 one, and is suspended differently. I
have the O 360 one and have had no cracks? Most folks do get cracks
over time, yet I have 2700+ on mine with none. One observation is that
I added a plate to the bottom of my FAB to alleviate the rapid wear I
was getting between the filter element and the fiberglass bottom. I
speculate that this stiffened up the whole thing plus gave me a better
seal for the filter.
Second observation is that the filters shrink! It seems that after a
few years/hundreds of hours the filter element shrinks in all
directions. I noticed it was no longer snug around the circumference
and did not pull up tight against the top and bottom. My observation is
that perhaps my tight seal for the FAB also reduced flexing and
vibration?
Conclusions I have made:
Always check the FAB and clean/re-oil the filter each 100 hours.
Inspect it carefully for cracks and looseness.
Put a plate in the bottom (O-360 model)
Replace the filter when it gets loose.
The bonus for this attention is cleaner air for your Lycoming. I am a
superstitious fellow and think it is one of the most important factors
if you want long engine life. I don't know that for sure. I am a
novice at this, having only owned one Lycoming in my life, but it seems
logical to me. As a footnote I should mention that on the first
occasion of finding a loose filter I noted an increase in silicone on my
oil analysis.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh@comcast.net
On 24May, 2012, at 6:39 , bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net wrote:
> Tom Berge and Doug Weiler report that switching to a cork gasket
rather than a paper one of between the upper plate on the servo/carb
helps alleviate the cracking problem.
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
> To: "rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 12:18:44 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Vans Filtered air box
>
>
> I added a piece of .032 aluminum in the bottom of the airbox to solve
the wear problem. The aluminum also makes the alternate air door fitting
in the bottom (fuel injected engines) easier.
>
> The other problem I had with the airbox is two top plates cracked at
the mounting holes, the cracks going all the way to the edge. I fixed
this problem by adding a .025 piece of aluminum angle between the
forward most lower air box bolt and a bolt in the case of the engine.
This vertical brace eliminates the airbox flexing problem.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 7:47 AM, "Fred Stucklen" wrote:
>
> >
> > Another potential problem is the air filter wearing through the
bottom of
> > the air box. Over time, the fiberglass will be weakened to the point
where
> > the bottom of the air box falls out. I've had to re-fiberglass this
area to
> > strengthen the air box....
> >
> > Fred Stucklen
> > RV-7A N924RV Flying
> > RV-6A N926RV (Sold after 875 Hrs.)
> > RV-6A N925RV (Sold after 2008 Hrs.)
> >
> >
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
I forgot to mention the shrinking filter issue. Over 10 years with the 8A I
found the filter goes from an oval cylinder to an oval cone (the bottom bec
oming the smaller end of the cone). I suspect the clamping action is the is
sue. On the RV-10 I added four small pieces of aluminum (90 degree bend) to
the bottom plate that fit the filter inside diameter. Hopefully this will h
elp the filter keep it's shape a little longer.
For the RV-10 I also put in a larger filter. If you invert the plate so tha
t the flange goes over the edge of the fiberglass it fits the taller K&N fil
ter (model E-100 I think but not sure).
Carl
On May 24, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net> wrote:
> Note: Please excuse the long post. I didn't have time to write a short o
ne.
>
>
> The FAB has fascinated me over the past 20 years. It seems to work really
well. It is a "different" design so it has puzzled me at times. Here are
some observations:
>
> First there are different models which behave and wear differently. the O
320 one is deeper than the O 360 one, and is suspended differently. I have
the O 360 one and have had no cracks? Most folks do get cracks over time, y
et I have 2700+ on mine with none. One observation is that I added a plate t
o the bottom of my FAB to alleviate the rapid wear I was getting between the
filter element and the fiberglass bottom. I speculate that this stiffened u
p the whole thing plus gave me a better seal for the filter.
>
> Second observation is that the filters shrink! It seems that after a few y
ears/hundreds of hours the filter element shrinks in all directions. I noti
ced it was no longer snug around the circumference and did not pull up tight
against the top and bottom. My observation is that perhaps my tight seal f
or the FAB also reduced flexing and vibration?
>
> Conclusions I have made:
>
> Always check the FAB and clean/re-oil the filter each 100 hours. Inspect i
t carefully for cracks and looseness.
>
> Put a plate in the bottom (O-360 model)
>
> Replace the filter when it gets loose.
>
> The bonus for this attention is cleaner air for your Lycoming. I am a sup
erstitious fellow and think it is one of the most important factors if you w
ant long engine life. I don't know that for sure. I am a novice at this, h
aving only owned one Lycoming in my life, but it seems logical to me. As a
footnote I should mention that on the first occasion of finding a loose fil
ter I noted an increase in silicone on my oil analysis.
>
>
>
> Denis Walsh
> denis.walsh@comcast.net
>
>
>
> On 24May, 2012, at 6:39 , bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Tom Berge and Doug Weiler report that switching to a cork gasket rather t
han a paper one of between the upper plate on the servo/carb helps alleviate
the cracking problem.
>>
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>>
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>> To: "rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 12:18:44 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Vans Filtered air box
>>
>>
>> I added a piece of .032 aluminum in the bottom of the airbox to solve the
wear problem. The aluminum also makes the alternate air door fitting in the
bottom (fuel injected engines) easier.
>>
>> The other problem I had with the airbox is two top plates cracked at the m
ounting holes, the cracks going all the way to the edge. I fixed this proble
m by adding a .025 piece of aluminum angle between the forward most lower ai
r box bolt and a bolt in the case of the engine. This vertical brace elimina
tes the airbox flexing problem.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 7:47 AM, "Fred Stucklen" wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Another potential problem is the air filter wearing through the bottom o
f
>> > the air box. Over time, the fiberglass will be weakened to the point wh
ere
>> > the bottom of the air box falls out. I've had to re-fiberglass this are
a to
>> > strengthen the air box....
>> >
>> > Fred Stucklen
>> > RV-7A N924RV Flying
>> > RV-6A N926RV (Sold after 875 Hrs.)
>> > RV-6A N925RV (Sold after 2008 Hrs.)
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
Where do think the silicone is coming from...do you have some RTV sealant in
or around the airbox that is coming loose and and being ingested?
Dale Ensing
Sent from my iPad
On May 24, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net> wrote:
> Note: Please excuse the long post. I didn't have time to write a short o
ne.
>
>
> The FAB has fascinated me over the past 20 years. It seems to work really
well. It is a "different" design so it has puzzled me at times. Here are
some observations:
>
> First there are different models which behave and wear differently. the O
320 one is deeper than the O 360 one, and is suspended differently. I have
the O 360 one and have had no cracks? Most folks do get cracks over time, y
et I have 2700+ on mine with none. One observation is that I added a plate t
o the bottom of my FAB to alleviate the rapid wear I was getting between the
filter element and the fiberglass bottom. I speculate that this stiffened u
p the whole thing plus gave me a better seal for the filter.
>
> Second observation is that the filters shrink! It seems that after a few y
ears/hundreds of hours the filter element shrinks in all directions. I noti
ced it was no longer snug around the circumference and did not pull up tight
against the top and bottom. My observation is that perhaps my tight seal f
or the FAB also reduced flexing and vibration?
>
> Conclusions I have made:
>
> Always check the FAB and clean/re-oil the filter each 100 hours. Inspect i
t carefully for cracks and looseness.
>
> Put a plate in the bottom (O-360 model)
>
> Replace the filter when it gets loose.
>
> The bonus for this attention is cleaner air for your Lycoming. I am a sup
erstitious fellow and think it is one of the most important factors if you w
ant long engine life. I don't know that for sure. I am a novice at this, h
aving only owned one Lycoming in my life, but it seems logical to me. As a
footnote I should mention that on the first occasion of finding a loose fil
ter I noted an increase in silicone on my oil analysis.
>
>
>
> Denis Walsh
> denis.walsh@comcast.net
>
>
>
> On 24May, 2012, at 6:39 , bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Tom Berge and Doug Weiler report that switching to a cork gasket rather t
han a paper one of between the upper plate on the servo/carb helps alleviate
the cracking problem.
>>
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>
>>
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>> To: "rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 12:18:44 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Vans Filtered air box
>>
>>
>> I added a piece of .032 aluminum in the bottom of the airbox to solve the
wear problem. The aluminum also makes the alternate air door fitting in the
bottom (fuel injected engines) easier.
>>
>> The other problem I had with the airbox is two top plates cracked at the m
ounting holes, the cracks going all the way to the edge. I fixed this proble
m by adding a .025 piece of aluminum angle between the forward most lower ai
r box bolt and a bolt in the case of the engine. This vertical brace elimina
tes the airbox flexing problem.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 7:47 AM, "Fred Stucklen" wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Another potential problem is the air filter wearing through the bottom o
f
>> > the air box. Over time, the fiberglass will be weakened to the point wh
ere
>> > the bottom of the air box falls out. I've had to re-fiberglass this are
a to
>> > strengthen the air box....
>> >
>> > Fred Stucklen
>> > RV-7A N924RV Flying
>> > RV-6A N926RV (Sold after 875 Hrs.)
>> > RV-6A N925RV (Sold after 2008 Hrs.)
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
I suspect that was a typo.
Silica is one of the elements reported in oil analysis. Silica accompanied by
elevated wear metals can be an indicator of induction system issues - poor or
inadequate filtration, induction leaks, contamination.
neal
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Where do think the silicone is coming from...do you have some RTV sealant in or
around the airbox that is coming loose and and being ingested?
Dale Ensing
On May 24, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net> wrote:
As a footnote I should mention that on the first occasion of finding a loose filter
I noted an increase in silicone on my oil analysis.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re:Vans Filtered air box |
I suspect it was a brain spasm of some sort! Thank you for the kind diagnosis.
Neal is correct, I was wrong.
Whatever the right name for the substance is: it is lab speak for "dirt", thus
it is an indicator of a leak or failure in your air filtration system, which
Capt George described very well below. In my case there were no other elevated
readings, so I was able to replace the filter quickly and have noted no signs
of undue wear in the engine.
It is still showing good analysis, some years after that first loose filter, with
good differential press check, etc, at 2,750 hrs(Tach). I feel pretty good
about that and would like to think it is because I take such good care of it.
It is more likely because I have always run it hard and frequently.
Denis Walsh (USAF, ret)
denis.walsh@comcast.net
On 24May, 2012, at 1:05 , George, Neal Capt 505 TRS/DOJ wrote:
>
> I suspect that was a typo.
>
> Silica is one of the elements reported in oil analysis. Silica accompanied by
elevated wear metals can be an indicator of induction system issues - poor or
inadequate filtration, induction leaks, contamination.
>
> neal
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