Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:18 AM - rough running during taxi after landing (thomas sargent)
2. 12:06 PM - Re: rough running during taxi after landing (scott bilinski)
3. 12:26 PM - Re: rough running during taxi after landing (thomas sargent)
4. 12:33 PM - Re: rough running during taxi after landing (Ralph E. Capen)
5. 12:45 PM - Re: rough running during taxi after landing (thomas sargent)
6. 01:07 PM - Re: rough running during taxi after landing (Ralph E. Capen)
7. 01:55 PM - Re: rough running during taxi after landing (thomas sargent)
8. 03:38 PM - Re: rough running during taxi after landing (Ralph E. Capen)
9. 05:57 PM - Re: Several unrelated questions (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | rough running during taxi after landing |
This is a question for all of you who have AirFlow Performance fuel
injection, as I do on mt RV-6A. When I start up and taxi around prior to
take off, I have no problem, even in warm Arizona weather. However, after
I've been flying and return to land, taxiing is a problem. The engine runs
very unevenly and almost stops completely some times.
The guys at AFP, and I think they are right, say it is fuel vaporizing in
the skinny stainless steel lines that go from the spider to the injector
nozzles. "These planes do that." I notice on a warm day when I hit the
brakes to slow down for a turn, it always gets worse, as though the slight
decrease in air moving through the cowl aggravates the vaporization.
Turning on the boost pump has no effect.
I should mention that I have a fiberglass cooling plenum which means there
is a bit less enclosed volume over the engine than there would be if I'd
use the stock baffling scheme that has the airseal fabric pressing against
the top of the cowl.
I one time had the thing stop completely as I was turning off the runway
and heard the tower advise the next aircraft to go around. Embarassing,
but at least, I can always restart the engine quickly. If the fuel flow is
a bit higher than you'd use for taxi, the engine smooths out - also
consistent with fuel vaporization.
Does anybody else have this same problem?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A N811WT
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: rough running during taxi after landing |
Same problem here, its fuel boiling in the injector lines. Call AFP and ord
er he smallest injector jets, this will raise the line pressure thus the bo
iling point. Also set your system to an extra rich idle-mixture just for
this occasion. Mine really acts up on left turns.......go figure.=0A=0A=0AS
cott RV-8a=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: thomas sarge
nt <sarg314@gmail.com>=0ATo: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Wedne
sday, June 13, 2012 11:15 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: rough running during taxi
after landing=0A=0A=0AThis is a question for all of you who have AirFlow Pe
rformance fuel injection, as I do on mt RV-6A.- When I start up and taxi
around prior to take off, I have no problem, even in warm Arizona weather.
- However, after I've been flying and return to land, taxiing is a proble
m.- The engine runs very unevenly and almost stops completely some times.
- =0A=0AThe guys at AFP, and I think they are right, say it is fuel vapor
izing in the skinny stainless steel lines that go from the spider to the in
jector nozzles.- "These planes do that."- I notice on a warm day when I
hit the brakes to slow down for a turn, it always gets worse, as though th
e slight decrease in air moving through the cowl aggravates the vaporizatio
n.- Turning on the boost pump has no effect.=0A=0AI should mention that I
have a fiberglass cooling plenum which means there is a bit less enclosed
volume over the engine than there would be if I'd use the stock baffling sc
heme that has the airseal fabric pressing against the top of the cowl.-
=0A=0AI one time had the thing stop completely as I was turning off the run
way and heard the tower advise the next aircraft to go around.- Embarassi
ng, but at least, I can always restart the engine quickly.- If the fuel f
low is a bit higher than you'd use for taxi, the engine smooths out - also
consistent with fuel vaporization.=0A=0ADoes anybody else have this same pr
====
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: rough running during taxi after landing |
Scott:
Yes! Left turns are definitely worse.
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM, scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Same problem here, its fuel boiling in the injector lines. Call AFP and
> order he smallest injector jets, this will raise the line pressure thus the
> boiling point. Also set your system to an extra rich idle mixture just for
> this occasion. Mine really acts up on left turns.......go figure.
>
> Scott RV-8a
>
> **
>
--
Tom Sargent
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: rough running during taxi after landing |
Tom,
I had a sorta-similar problem - mine was more restart related though.
I would land - taxi - refuel - and have trouble restarting...even after using the
purge valve...and it would run a bit rough...
I changed my injector restrictors from the stock .028 to .024 which helped a lot
- and allows the boost pump to manage the stumbling at idle after the restart.
My next step will be (already have the part) to put a cooling shroud on the
mechanical pump....I already know it will be a PITB to install.
I have the SamJames plenum and cowl along with the AFP injection - mine is updraft
as I have a Vetterman dual crossover with mufflers and heater-boxes.
Haven't had these kinds of issues since and I am quite happy with the results.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 13, 2012 2:15 PM
>To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: rough running during taxi after landing
>
>This is a question for all of you who have AirFlow Performance fuel
>injection, as I do on mt RV-6A. When I start up and taxi around prior to
>take off, I have no problem, even in warm Arizona weather. However, after
>I've been flying and return to land, taxiing is a problem. The engine runs
>very unevenly and almost stops completely some times.
>
>The guys at AFP, and I think they are right, say it is fuel vaporizing in
>the skinny stainless steel lines that go from the spider to the injector
>nozzles. "These planes do that." I notice on a warm day when I hit the
>brakes to slow down for a turn, it always gets worse, as though the slight
>decrease in air moving through the cowl aggravates the vaporization.
>Turning on the boost pump has no effect.
>
>I should mention that I have a fiberglass cooling plenum which means there
>is a bit less enclosed volume over the engine than there would be if I'd
>use the stock baffling scheme that has the airseal fabric pressing against
>the top of the cowl.
>
>I one time had the thing stop completely as I was turning off the runway
>and heard the tower advise the next aircraft to go around. Embarassing,
>but at least, I can always restart the engine quickly. If the fuel flow is
>a bit higher than you'd use for taxi, the engine smooths out - also
>consistent with fuel vaporization.
>
>Does anybody else have this same problem?
>--
>Tom Sargent, RV-6A N811WT
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: rough running during taxi after landing |
Ralph:
I have changed the nozzles from 0.28 to 0.024 and it did improve the
problem. The engine even produced notably more horse power, presumably due
to better fuel atomization. Scott has me wondering if I shouldn't go to a
still smaller nozzle size. My annual is in July, maybe I should get a set.
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I had a sorta-similar problem - mine was more restart related though.
>
> I would land - taxi - refuel - and have trouble restarting...even after
> using the purge valve...and it would run a bit rough...
> I changed my injector restrictors from the stock .028 to .024 which helped
> a lot - and allows the boost pump to manage the stumbling at idle after the
> restart. My next step will be (already have the part) to put a cooling
> shroud on the mechanical pump....I already know it will be a PITB to
> install.
>
> I have the SamJames plenum and cowl along with the AFP injection - mine is
> updraft as I have a Vetterman dual crossover with mufflers and heater-boxes.
>
> Haven't had these kinds of issues since and I am quite happy with the
> results.
>
> Ralph
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: rough running during taxi after landing |
Tom,
Do you have the SJ cowl and plenum or did you go plenum only?
With my setup, I am experiencing some balance problems with my injection system
from front to rear when I try to run Lean-of-peak (LOP). AFP has recommended
that I install turbo-style injector vent rails to balance the vent-pressure at
the base of each injector. Another item that I have the parts for and will
do in the future.
Collect all the performance data you can - in case you decide to go with .022's.
I think .022 is the smallest size available.
Have you run the flaw balance tests yet for LOP operations? What do you have for
an engine monitor? Mine is an AFS3400sEE - I get data captured at one second
intervals for all of my flights.
Keep us informed - I'll let you know what I did...and want to know your results
as well.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 13, 2012 3:45 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: rough running during taxi after landing
>
>Ralph:
>I have changed the nozzles from 0.28 to 0.024 and it did improve the
>problem. The engine even produced notably more horse power, presumably due
>to better fuel atomization. Scott has me wondering if I shouldn't go to a
>still smaller nozzle size. My annual is in July, maybe I should get a set.
>
>On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> I had a sorta-similar problem - mine was more restart related though.
>>
>> I would land - taxi - refuel - and have trouble restarting...even after
>> using the purge valve...and it would run a bit rough...
>> I changed my injector restrictors from the stock .028 to .024 which helped
>> a lot - and allows the boost pump to manage the stumbling at idle after the
>> restart. My next step will be (already have the part) to put a cooling
>> shroud on the mechanical pump....I already know it will be a PITB to
>> install.
>>
>> I have the SamJames plenum and cowl along with the AFP injection - mine is
>> updraft as I have a Vetterman dual crossover with mufflers and heater-boxes.
>>
>> Haven't had these kinds of issues since and I am quite happy with the
>> results.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Tom Sargent
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: rough running during taxi after landing |
Ralph:
I don't have the Sam James stuff. I have a stock cowl with a cooling plenum
I built myself. I haven't done any flow testing. If I get to altitude and
lean it most of the way (say 9.5gph at 8500 ft and 2400 rpm) and let things
stabilize for a few minutes, then I can lean it. I have an old VM1000 and
use it's leaning mode. It looks for peak egt as I slowly lean it. It
usually ends up at 8.0 or 8.5 gph when leaned to 50deg. rich of peak an
2400 - 2450rpm.
My cyl. head temps are pretty even. The VM1000 temp. bar graph shows cyl.
2,3, and 4 at the same level and cyl #1 one notch lower than the rest. So
I think that means my fuel flow is pretty even to all the cylinders.
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Do you have the SJ cowl and plenum or did you go plenum only?
> With my setup, I am experiencing some balance problems with my injection
> system from front to rear when I try to run Lean-of-peak (LOP). AFP has
> recommended that I install turbo-style injector vent rails to balance the
> vent-pressure at the base of each injector. Another item that I have the
> parts for and will do in the future.
>
> Collect all the performance data you can - in case you decide to go with
> .022's. I think .022 is the smallest size available.
>
> Have you run the flaw balance tests yet for LOP operations? What do you
> have for an engine monitor? Mine is an AFS3400sEE - I get data captured at
> one second intervals for all of my flights.
>
> Keep us informed - I'll let you know what I did...and want to know your
> results as well.
>
> Ralph
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: rough running during taxi after landing |
>From that - it sounds like you're in pretty good shape.
If you want to get to the really finer points of LOP, you'll need to record fuel
flows and egts for when each cylinder peaks. Then, you'll be able to determine
if the flow rates are within .1gph of each other...(that's where mine are).
Good luck,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: thomas sargent <sarg314@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 13, 2012 4:53 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: rough running during taxi after landing
>
>Ralph:
>I don't have the Sam James stuff. I have a stock cowl with a cooling plenum
>I built myself. I haven't done any flow testing. If I get to altitude and
>lean it most of the way (say 9.5gph at 8500 ft and 2400 rpm) and let things
>stabilize for a few minutes, then I can lean it. I have an old VM1000 and
>use it's leaning mode. It looks for peak egt as I slowly lean it. It
>usually ends up at 8.0 or 8.5 gph when leaned to 50deg. rich of peak an
>2400 - 2450rpm.
>
>My cyl. head temps are pretty even. The VM1000 temp. bar graph shows cyl.
>2,3, and 4 at the same level and cyl #1 one notch lower than the rest. So
>I think that means my fuel flow is pretty even to all the cylinders.
>
>On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen@earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Do you have the SJ cowl and plenum or did you go plenum only?
>> With my setup, I am experiencing some balance problems with my injection
>> system from front to rear when I try to run Lean-of-peak (LOP). AFP has
>> recommended that I install turbo-style injector vent rails to balance the
>> vent-pressure at the base of each injector. Another item that I have the
>> parts for and will do in the future.
>>
>> Collect all the performance data you can - in case you decide to go with
>> .022's. I think .022 is the smallest size available.
>>
>> Have you run the flaw balance tests yet for LOP operations? What do you
>> have for an engine monitor? Mine is an AFS3400sEE - I get data captured at
>> one second intervals for all of my flights.
>>
>> Keep us informed - I'll let you know what I did...and want to know your
>> results as well.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>--
>Tom Sargent
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Several unrelated questions |
At 03:32 PM 6/13/2012 Wednesday, you wrote:
>Am laying out the electrical/avionics systems wiring and keep dropping into "don't
know" holes. Maybe I can tap into some expertise? All comments thankfully
received. Hope I can pay it forward someday.
>
>1. Originally settled on the ACK E-04 ELT, but now looking hard at the Ameri-King
AK451-2D. Similar price and appears more "antenna installation" friendly.
Planning on the Front Seatback Support location I've seen other builders use
for the antenna mount. At 15 long, it appears that I might even be able to
install the whip without canopy interference but not sure about that. Probably
go with the rubber ducky.
>
>2. Would appreciate any VP-X installation photos that might be available. I've
got a tentative location identified, but it appears a bit tight.
>
>3. Dynon Skyview: My glass panel planning BDS included a dedicated EMS. I still
prefer that. I like the idea of a dedicated engine display. I'm considering
the MGL mini-EMS. However, it's tough to justify the extra expense even
though there is space on the panel.
>Maybe it's just years of flying experience with separated flight and engine steam
gauges. I'll be day/night VFR if that's any significance.
>
>4. Really embarrassing. I want to check the trim servo, but haven't figured
out the RayCo wiring diagram. Individual servo wires are not identified. A continuity
check didn't help. Thought that the white wires would be +12V with
one of the 3 wires going to the indicator providing the ground. Doesn't seem
to work that way. Curses, foiled again.
>
>Stan Loer
>RV-8 QB
Hi Stan,
Here's a few pictures of how I did my VP-200 Control Unit installation. VP-x Control
Unit should be similar.
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=67193&row=157
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=75674&row=77
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=77065&row=71
And here's some pictures of how I mounted my "Ameri-King AK-451 ELT w/ GPS Input"
including antenna:
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=77846&row=50
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=77847&row=49
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=77848&row=48
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=77849&row=47
Best regards,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 100+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
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