---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/26/12: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:39 AM - how cold is too cold? (thomas sargent) 2. 09:28 AM - Re: how cold is too cold? (Jon Finley) 3. 11:36 AM - Re: how cold is too cold? (JohnF) 4. 02:12 PM - Re: how cold is too cold? (Dave Saylor) 5. 04:15 PM - how cold is too cold? (R.C. Flyer) 6. 04:26 PM - Re: how cold is too cold? (Jon Finley) 7. 05:31 PM - Re: how cold is too cold? (Carl Froehlich) 8. 06:57 PM - Fuse-Build (R.C. Flyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:38 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? From: thomas sargent I was thinking about flying to Grand canyon (kgcn) which is about 1.5 hrs from here. But I note that the overnight temperatures are brutal. Down to about 0 F these days. The FBO will let me drag the plane into a heated hangar in the morning to warm up, but will temps that low overnight do any damage? Cracked plexiglass comes to mind. Any one have experience with this sort of weather? Perhaps I should just wait a month or 2. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:51 AM PST US From: "Jon Finley" Subject: RE: RV-List: how cold is too cold? Hi Tom, I think you have one seriously babied airplane!! J This may be the first time I=99ve ever heard zero degrees described as =9Cbrutal=9D. J I=99d say go =93 the Grand Canyon is gorgeous all the time =93 even with a dusting of snow. Get started early and you can be back home the same day and not worry about the overnight. Being from Montana and then Minnesota =93 my airplanes sat in the hangar on many -30 F nights without damage. Sitting outside isn=99t much different than inside when it comes to sub-zero temps (assuming a typical hangar). My coldest flying temperature while in these areas was -10 F. Here in New Mexico, my RV doesn=99t normally see temps as cold as my former planes but the occasional sub-zero temp does occur. I=99ve not actually measured the inside hangar temp on nights like this but I=99d bet it isn=99t much different than the outside temp. As far as damage goes, I can imagine the plexi might revolt if there is a =9Chighly-stressed=9D area just waiting to crack but I don=99t think I=99ve ever heard of this happening. Not suggesting that I=99ve heard every possible story though. What=99s too cold? I doubt there is a sitting still limit (within reason). For flight; I dunno, the aspect that strikes me as the worst for the airplane is being unable to get oil/CHT=99s up to a reasonable temp at cruise. Slightly different topic - I am NOT a fan of cold starts. I know the book says they are ok but every car and airplane I=99ve owned complain and scream in pain every time I do it to them. I like to preheat (anything below about 35 degrees) and FBO=99s like to rape you for them (in my opinion) and/or heated hangar space. Jon http://jdfinley.com From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:39 AM Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? I was thinking about flying to Grand canyon (kgcn) which is about 1.5 hrs from here. But I note that the overnight temperatures are brutal. Down to about 0 F these days. The FBO will let me drag the plane into a heated hangar in the morning to warm up, but will temps that low overnight do any damage? Cracked plexiglass comes to mind. Any one have experience with this sort of weather? Perhaps I should just wait a month or 2. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:53 AM PST US From: "JohnF" Subject: Re: RV-List: how cold is too cold? No, Tom, the cold won't hurt. I stored my RV6A in an unheated hangar and just preheated the engine before flying if it got to or below 35-F and no other problems. My now RV-12 is in the same situation, no plexi damage, and no engine harm if pre-heated a bit. John ----- Original Message ----- From: thomas sargent To: rv-list Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:39 AM Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? I was thinking about flying to Grand canyon (kgcn) which is about 1.5 hrs from here. But I note that the overnight temperatures are brutal. Down to about 0 F these days. The FBO will let me drag the plane into a heated hangar in the morning to warm up, but will temps that low overnight do any damage? Cracked plexiglass comes to mind. Any one have experience with this sort of weather? Perhaps I should just wait a month or 2. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: how cold is too cold? From: Dave Saylor One thing I've seen is an EFIS that literally took some time to warm up. We h ad to run for about 15 min on the ground with the heater running before the s creen would display anything other than a white blob in the corner. OAT was a bout 15F and it was cold-soaked. In retrospect I'd have left a heater in the cabin. --Dave On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:35, "JohnF" wrote: > No, Tom, the cold won't hurt. I stored my RV6A in an unheated hangar and j ust preheated the engine before flying if it got to or below 35-F and no oth er problems. My now RV-12 is in the same situation, no plexi damage, and no engine harm if pre-heated a bit. > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thomas sargent > To: rv-list > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:39 AM > Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? > > I was thinking about flying to Grand canyon (kgcn) which is about 1.5 hrs f rom here. But I note that the overnight temperatures are brutal. Down to a bout 0 F these days. The FBO will let me drag the plane into a heated hanga r in the morning to warm up, but will temps that low overnight do any damage ? Cracked plexiglass comes to mind. Any one have experience with this sort o f weather? Perhaps I should just wait a month or 2. > > -- > Tom Sargent > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:04 PM PST US From: "R.C. Flyer" Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? Along the same subject=3B at what point is it necessary to pre-heat the eng ine/oil before start-up? I have an O-320 and the plane sits out side @ HMT. Temps drop to high 30's to mid 40's. I'm running 15-50w oil=2C and have a strong starter/Battery. What's the preferred point at which one should warm things up before cranking? Thanks in advance. R.C. Subject: Re: RV-List: how cold is too cold? From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com One thing I've seen is an EFIS that literally took some time to warm up. We had to run for about 15 min on the ground with the heater running before t he screen would display anything other than a white blob in the corner. OAT was about 15F and it was cold-soaked. In retrospect I'd have left a heater in the cabin. --Dave On Dec 26=2C 2012=2C at 11:35=2C "JohnF" wrote: No=2C Tom=2C the cold won't hurt. I stored my RV6A in an unheated hangar an d just preheated the engine before flying if it got to or below 35-F and no other problems. My now RV-12 is in the same situation=2C no plexi damage =2C and no engine harm if pre-heated a bit. John ----- Original Message ----- From: thomas sargent Sent: Wednesday=2C December 26=2C 2012 9:39 AM Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? I was thinking about flying to Grand canyon (kgcn) which is about 1.5 hrs f rom here. But I note that the overnight temperatures are brutal. Down to about 0 F these days. The FBO will let me drag the plane into a heated han gar in the morning to warm up=2C but will temps that low overnight do any d amage? Cracked plexiglass comes to mind. Any one have experience with this sort of weather? Perhaps I should just wait a month or 2. -- Tom Sargent href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:20 PM PST US From: "Jon Finley" Subject: RE: RV-List: how cold is too cold? If you are a Mike Busch follower (I am), 32 degrees. Read Mike's full article here: http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182846-1.html?type=pf Hth, Jon http://jdfinley.com From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C. Flyer Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 5:14 PM Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? Along the same subject; at what point is it necessary to pre-heat the engine/oil before start-up? I have an O-320 and the plane sits out side @ HMT. Temps drop to high 30's to mid 40's. I'm running 15-50w oil, and have a strong starter/Battery. What's the preferred point at which one should warm things up before cranking? Thanks in advance. R.C. _____ Subject: Re: RV-List: how cold is too cold? From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com One thing I've seen is an EFIS that literally took some time to warm up. We had to run for about 15 min on the ground with the heater running before the screen would display anything other than a white blob in the corner. OAT was about 15F and it was cold-soaked. In retrospect I'd have left a heater in the cabin. --Dave On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:35, "JohnF" wrote: No, Tom, the cold won't hurt. I stored my RV6A in an unheated hangar and just preheated the engine before flying if it got to or below 35-F and no other problems. My now RV-12 is in the same situation, no plexi damage, and no engine harm if pre-heated a bit. John ----- Original Message ----- From: thomas sargent Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:39 AM Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? I was thinking about flying to Grand canyon (kgcn) which is about 1.5 hrs from here. But I note that the overnight temperatures are brutal. Down to about 0 F these days. The FBO will let me drag the plane into a heated hangar in the morning to warm up, but will temps that low overnight do any damage? Cracked plexiglass comes to mind. Any one have experience with this sort of weather? Perhaps I should just wait a month or 2. -- Tom Sargent href="http://www.aeroelectric.com ">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com ">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com ">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com 3D=========================3 D=================== .com%22" target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com uildersbooks.com%22" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com lp.com%22" target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com bution%22" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=========================3 D=================== tor?RV-List%22" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List 3D=========================3 D=================== target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=========================3 D=================== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:53 PM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV-List: how cold is too cold? I've been using the Reiff oil sump heaters for 10 years (Vans and ACS both carry them). These are easy to install and work well. Anything below 40 degrees I plug them in. In a couple of hours the oil is up at 80 or so at engine start. Just don't leave them plugged in other than just before you plan on flying. The moisture driven off from the now warm oil will collect on the upper, cold part of the engine - like the cam. Carl From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Finley Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 7:26 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: how cold is too cold? If you are a Mike Busch follower (I am), 32 degrees. Read Mike's full article here: http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182846-1.html?type=pf Hth, Jon http://jdfinley.com From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C. Flyer Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 5:14 PM Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? Along the same subject; at what point is it necessary to pre-heat the engine/oil before start-up? I have an O-320 and the plane sits out side @ HMT. Temps drop to high 30's to mid 40's. I'm running 15-50w oil, and have a strong starter/Battery. What's the preferred point at which one should warm things up before cranking? Thanks in advance. R.C. _____ Subject: Re: RV-List: how cold is too cold? From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com One thing I've seen is an EFIS that literally took some time to warm up. We had to run for about 15 min on the ground with the heater running before the screen would display anything other than a white blob in the corner. OAT was about 15F and it was cold-soaked. In retrospect I'd have left a heater in the cabin. --Dave On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:35, "JohnF" wrote: No, Tom, the cold won't hurt. I stored my RV6A in an unheated hangar and just preheated the engine before flying if it got to or below 35-F and no other problems. My now RV-12 is in the same situation, no plexi damage, and no engine harm if pre-heated a bit. John ----- Original Message ----- From: thomas sargent Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:39 AM Subject: RV-List: how cold is too cold? I was thinking about flying to Grand canyon (kgcn) which is about 1.5 hrs from here. But I note that the overnight temperatures are brutal. Down to about 0 F these days. The FBO will let me drag the plane into a heated hangar in the morning to warm up, but will temps that low overnight do any damage? Cracked plexiglass comes to mind. Any one have experience with this sort of weather? Perhaps I should just wait a month or 2. -- Tom Sargent href="http://www.aeroelectric.com ">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com ">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com ">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com 3D=========================3 D=================== .com%22" target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com uildersbooks.com%22" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com lp.com%22" target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com bution%22" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=========================3 D=================== tor?RV-List%22" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List 3D=========================3 D=================== target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=========================3 D=================== www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:24 PM PST US From: "R.C. Flyer" Subject: RV-List: Fuse-Build After quite a few years=2C I'm once again building my -6 started in '98=3B currently building the Fuselage. I've spent the last few days going over th e manual and plans and have run into a "brain-dead" spot....can't figure ou t the Longeron's arc on Print #23. Plus my firewall doesn't have the "X" s upports shown on the RV-7 print/ just the diagonals (\ -/). Any builders/Te ch Counselors in the So. Cal. area near Elsinore? Any and all help is great ly appreciated. 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