Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:36 PM - Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... (Matt Dralle)
2. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... (Tracy)
3. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... (Dan Bergeron)
4. 08:52 PM - Re: Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... (Ed)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... |
At 06:22 PM 8/31/2013 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> RV8-List message posted by: Dennis Fox <dennisfox@persona.ca>
>
>My RV8a project is ready for wheels, and I keep thinking about the brake system
and lines. Seem to me like some weight could be saved by going with 3/16 brake
lines, (smaller line and less fluid). Problem with small lines is the heavy
viscosity of A/C hydraulic oil, especially when cold. Solution would be automotive
Dot 3 or Dot 4, but are there compatability issues with the Matco master
cylinders and Cleveland calipers? Maybe new o-rings could solve the problem?
Anyone know the answer?
Hi Dennis,
Hum, you should actually put the parts and fluid between a 1/4" and a 3/16" system
on a scale and weigh them. I think that you're going to find the difference
in weight is almost negligible. Oh the other hand, the difference in braking
capabilities could be deadly. Personally, I could stand to lose 50 lbs around
my belly. That is some realy weight savings that would make my RV fly a lot
better. :-)
I've done a fair amount of custom stuff on my RV, but when it comes to engineered
stuff like the size of the brake lines, and other dimensional stuff, Van's
is the man. Van's hates fat airplanes. If he felt that 3/16" brake lines would
be adequate, I know for certain that he would have used them.
Matt's $.02.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... |
Dot 3 or 4 will destroy the rubber used in most AC brake components. At least
that was true 10 years ago and I doubt that has changed.
Tracy
RV-4
RV-8
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 31, 2013, at 21:34, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:22 PM 8/31/2013 Saturday, you wrote:
>> --> RV8-List message posted by: Dennis Fox <dennisfox@persona.ca>
>>
>> My RV8a project is ready for wheels, and I keep thinking about the brake system
and lines. Seem to me like some weight could be saved by going with 3/16
brake lines, (smaller line and less fluid). Problem with small lines is the heavy
viscosity of A/C hydraulic oil, especially when cold. Solution would be
automotive Dot 3 or Dot 4, but are there compatability issues with the Matco
master cylinders and Cleveland calipers? Maybe new o-rings could solve the problem?
Anyone know the answer?
>
>
> Hi Dennis,
>
> Hum, you should actually put the parts and fluid between a 1/4" and a 3/16" system
on a scale and weigh them. I think that you're going to find the difference
in weight is almost negligible. Oh the other hand, the difference in braking
capabilities could be deadly. Personally, I could stand to lose 50 lbs around
my belly. That is some realy weight savings that would make my RV fly a
lot better. :-)
>
> I've done a fair amount of custom stuff on my RV, but when it comes to engineered
stuff like the size of the brake lines, and other dimensional stuff, Van's
is the man. Van's hates fat airplanes. If he felt that 3/16" brake lines would
be adequate, I know for certain that he would have used them.
>
> Matt's $.02.
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... |
Dennis
Re use of 3/16" brake line instead of Vans' 1/4" - I'm not an engineer but
the folks who design airplanes at Vans Aircraft are - they use 1/4" brake
lines for a reason - my advice would be don't do it - there is a serious
safety issue here - braking action would almost certainly be dangerously
impacted - want to save a few ounces - Matt offered some great advice - go
on a diet -
Dan Bergeron
RV-7A - N307TB
425 hours since first
flight on 8/6/09
On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:22 PM 8/31/2013 Saturday, you wrote:
> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Dennis Fox <dennisfox@persona.ca>
> >
> >My RV8a project is ready for wheels, and I keep thinking about the brake
> system and lines. Seem to me like some weight could be saved by going with
> 3/16 brake lines, (smaller line and less fluid). Problem with small lines
> is the heavy viscosity of A/C hydraulic oil, especially when cold.
> Solution would be automotive Dot 3 or Dot 4, but are there compatability
> issues with the Matco master cylinders and Cleveland calipers? Maybe new
> o-rings could solve the problem? Anyone know the answer?
>
>
> Hi Dennis,
>
> Hum, you should actually put the parts and fluid between a 1/4" and a
> 3/16" system on a scale and weigh them. I think that you're going to find
> the difference in weight is almost negligible. Oh the other hand, the
> difference in braking capabilities could be deadly. Personally, I could
> stand to lose 50 lbs around my belly. That is some realy weight savings
> that would make my RV fly a lot better. :-)
>
> I've done a fair amount of custom stuff on my RV, but when it comes to
> engineered stuff like the size of the brake lines, and other dimensional
> stuff, Van's is the man. Van's hates fat airplanes. If he felt that 3/16"
> brake lines would be adequate, I know for certain that he would have used
> them.
>
> Matt's $.02.
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
> Mode
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 3/16 vs 1/4 Brake Lines... |
Nothing wrong with 3/16" lines operationally. They make for a harder
pedal feel. We're not moving very much fluid to where the difference in
size would be a detriment. Really, when you think about it, brakes are
for run up anyway. I use the MIL-PRF-83282 synthetic brake fluid. Van's
sells it as Royco 782. It has a higher flashpoint than 5606, but is
completely compatible. That means you can find something that will work
when you need some fluid away from home.
Ed Holyoke
On 8/31/2013 7:33 PM, Dan Bergeron wrote:
> Dennis
> Re use of 3/16" brake line instead of Vans' 1/4" - I'm not an engineer
> but the folks who design airplanes at Vans Aircraft are - they use 1/4"
> brake lines for a reason - my advice would be don't do it - there is a
> serious safety issue here - braking action would almost certainly be
> dangerously impacted - want to save a few ounces - Matt offered some
> great advice - go on a diet -
> Dan Bergeron
> RV-7A - N307TB
> 425 hours since first
> flight on 8/6/09
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com
> <mailto:dralle@matronics.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:dralle@matronics.com>>
>
> At 06:22 PM 8/31/2013 Saturday, you wrote:
> >--> RV8-List message posted by: Dennis Fox <dennisfox@persona.ca
> <mailto:dennisfox@persona.ca>>
> >
> >My RV8a project is ready for wheels, and I keep thinking about the
> brake system and lines. Seem to me like some weight could be saved
> by going with 3/16 brake lines, (smaller line and less fluid).
> Problem with small lines is the heavy viscosity of A/C hydraulic
> oil, especially when cold. Solution would be automotive Dot 3 or
> Dot 4, but are there compatability issues with the Matco master
> cylinders and Cleveland calipers? Maybe new o-rings could solve the
> problem? Anyone know the answer?
>
>
> Hi Dennis,
>
> Hum, you should actually put the parts and fluid between a 1/4" and
> a 3/16" system on a scale and weigh them. I think that you're going
> to find the difference in weight is almost negligible. Oh the other
> hand, the difference in braking capabilities could be deadly.
> Personally, I could stand to lose 50 lbs around my belly. That is
> some realy weight savings that would make my RV fly a lot better. :-)
>
> I've done a fair amount of custom stuff on my RV, but when it comes
> to engineered stuff like the size of the brake lines, and other
> dimensional stuff, Van's is the man. Van's hates fat airplanes. If
> he felt that 3/16" brake lines would be adequate, I know for certain
> that he would have used them.
>
> Matt's $.02.
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full
> Flyer Mode
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
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