---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/10/14: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:39 AM - Re: Empennage SBs (Paul Rice) 2. 03:21 AM - Re: Empennage SBs (sheldon barrett) 3. 03:53 AM - Re: Empennage SBs (Carl Froehlich) 4. 04:03 AM - Re: Empennage SBs SWAG (Tracy) 5. 04:57 AM - Re: Empennage SBs (Fisher Paul A.) 6. 06:24 AM - Re: Empennage SBs (=?utf-8?B?x53HnWwgx511x53Ggw==?=) 7. 07:37 AM - Re:: empennage S.B.s 02/09/14 (Ron Burden) 8. 11:43 AM - For Sale: RV-7(A) kit in Boulder, CO (Adam Boggs) 9. 11:43 AM - Re: Empennage SBs (HCRV6@comcast.net) 10. 11:51 AM - Re: Empennage SBs (mr.gsun@gmail.com) 11. 12:03 PM - Re: Empennage SBs (Thomas Sargent) 12. 02:00 PM - Re: Empennage SB (MLE) 13. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: Empennage SB (Reuven Silberman) 14. 02:29 PM - Re: Empennage SBs (Charlie England) 15. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: Empennage SB (John Brick) 16. 06:01 PM - Re: Empennage SBs SWAG (vanremog@aol.com) 17. 06:13 PM - Re: Empennage SBs SWAG (Linn Walters) 18. 06:22 PM - Re: Empennage SBs SWAG (Charlie England) 19. 06:28 PM - Re: Empennage SBs SWAG (vanremog@aol.com) 20. 06:51 PM - Re: Empennage SBs SWAG (vanremog@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:48 AM PST US From: Paul Rice Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage SBs RV8 N64PR 400 hours=2C light acro. No Cracks found=2C but also no relief holes(indents) either. Same with my friends RV6 slow build 9 still building)=2C not relief recesses(indents). Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs From: n81jg@aol.com RV7A 781JG466 hrsNo aeroNo cracks HS or E Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9=2C 2014=2C at 10:41 PM=2C vanremog@aol.com wrote: =0A Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections=2C that you report back to the lists with your a/c type=2C TTA=2C inspection results (no crack s=2C cracks=2C extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero=2C mild aero=2C hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and as sess the airframe life of these designs under the normal range of condition s. Some of you are quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers.=0A =0A =0A =0A As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA=2C no cracks or distress found in eit her the horizontal stab or elevator=2C with a history of mild to no aerobat ics=2C a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and only one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. =0A =0A =0A =0A -GV=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=0A 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=0A 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=0A 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:06 AM PST US From: "sheldon barrett" Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs RV6A 707 hrs 0-360 w/sensenich fp. No acro or grass/dirt strips. No cracks hs or elev. Sheldon N858SB ----- Original Message ----- From: vanremog@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 11:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Empennage SBs Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report back to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cracks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airframe life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you are quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in either the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and only one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. -GV ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:42 AM PST US From: Carl Froehlich Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs RV8A N716RV 700 hours, mild aerobatics. No cracks or other issues found on HS or elevat or. Carl > On Feb 10, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Jack wrote: > > RV7A 781JG > 466 hrs > No aero > No cracks HS or E > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: >> >> Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report b ack to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra cks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard ae ro) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airfram e life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you a re quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. >> >> As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in eit her the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics , a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and o nly one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. >> >> -GV > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG From: Tracy Might I propose (with tongue only slightly in cheek) that the problem is on t he other end of the airplane. The only conceivable root cause of HS / Elev ator spar cracking is a resonant vibration of these parts excited by that th robbing thing at the nose. Possibly primary engine frequency during operat ion (aggravating factor being prop imbalance) or the tail shaking violently d uring startup and shutdown, in which case problem may be related to number o f start/stop cycles rather than hours or aerobatic stress. RV-4 1850 hours RV-8 220 hours (Both - Mazda rotary engine powered) Sent from my iPad > On Feb 10, 2014, at 1:57, Jack wrote: > > RV7A 781JG > 466 hrs > No aero > No cracks HS or E > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: >> >> Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report b ack to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra cks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard ae ro) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airfram e life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you a re quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. >> >> As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in eit her the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics , a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and o nly one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. >> >> -GV > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:36 AM PST US From: "Fisher Paul A." Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage SBs RV-7A N18PF 435 hours (first flight August 2009) No cracks No aerobatics (yes, I baby it!) - Paul From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:42 AM Subject: RV-List: Empennage SBs Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report ba ck to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra cks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard a ero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airfr ame life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. ...snip... ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:29 AM PST US From: =?utf-8?B?x53HnWwgx511x53Ggw==?= Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage SBs RV7A finished 2005 O-360, CS Prop 1051 hrs Very Little light Aero No cracks HS or E From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:41 AM Subject: RV-List: Empennage SBs Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report back to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cracks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airframe life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you are quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in either the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and only one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. -GV ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:17 AM PST US From: "Ron Burden" Subject: RV-List: Re:: empennage S.B.s 02/09/14 RV-7A N427A 340TT mild aero. no cracks ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:46 AM PST US From: Adam Boggs Subject: RV-List: For Sale: RV-7(A) kit in Boulder, CO Hi Folks, Well, the time has come to find someone interested in finishing an RV-7 kit which hasn't seen any progress in a number of years. Here are the details: - 3 kits -- empennage, wing, and fuselage - About 500 hours into it. Empennage is complete (except for re-issued rudder), wing kit is mostly done (skins not yet riveted on), and fuselage is still in the crate. - Wing kit purchased with electric trim kit and inverted fuel pickup on one side. - You will still need to acquire the finishing kit, so you can decide between tailwheel or tricycle gear. - All completed parts have been alodined and primed with chromate epoxy primer. - Will include tools such as air compressor, squeezer, drill, rivet gun, HVLP spray gun, etc. Some small parts may be missing or unaccounted for but are easily ordered from Vans. All parts are sold as-is. The kit is located in Boulder, CO and buyer will need to make arrangements to pick it up. Asking $11,500. This is like buying a quick build kit for a fraction of the cost! Please contact me by email or phone if interested. Sincerely, Adam Boggs boggs-rvforsale@aircrafter.org 303-880-8559 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:46 AM PST US From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs RV-6 N16CX 1140 hours O-360A1A Catto two blade (composite, wood/glass) Very mild acro, some grass Numerous horrible landings No cracks Harry Crosby ----- Original Message ----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:42 AM Subject: RV-List: Empennage SBs Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report ba ck to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra cks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard a ero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airfr ame life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. snip === ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:01 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage SBs From: mr.gsun@gmail.com 700 hour 2004 RV7 light acro. No cracks. 2300 hour, friend's RV6, light acro, lots of instruction, no cracks Greg On Feb 10, 2014 1:43 AM, "Paul Rice" wrote: > RV8 N64PR > 400 hours, light acro. > No Cracks found, but also no relief holes(indents) either. Same with my > friends RV6 slow build 9 still building), not relief recesses(indents). > > ------------------------------ > Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs > From: n81jg@aol.com > Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 22:57:02 -0800 > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > RV7A 781JG > 466 hrs > No aero > No cracks HS or E > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: > > Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report > back to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, > cracks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, > hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the > airframe life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some > of you are quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and > bankers. > > As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in > either the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no > aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross > countries and only one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. > > -GV > > > * > > 3D============================================ > > igator?RV-List"" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > 3D============================================ > quot;" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > 3D============================================ > tribution"" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > 3D============================================ > > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs From: Thomas Sargent I did the inspections and could see no problems, though I should mention that since my airplane was painted before It was flown, it was painted in pieces (55 to be exact). So my elevators and H.S. have color coat on top of the primer virtually everywhere that is visible. That urethane paint is pretty tough and flexible. There could be a crack in the aluminum without it showing through urethane, couldn't there? N811WT IO-360-B2B 3-blade Catto prop. 125 hrs. No problems visible. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:00 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: RE: Empennage SB From: MLE RV-6A 826ME ~300 hours mild Acro No Cracks HS or E Marty Time: 10:57:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs From: Jack RV7A 781JG 466 hrs No aero No cracks HS or E Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: > > Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report b ack to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra cks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard ae ro) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airfram e life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you a re quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. > > As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in eith er the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and on ly one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. > > -GV > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:17 PM PST US From: Reuven Silberman Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Empennage SB 2005 -RV7A, TT 600, no acro, used it for RV checkouts, so probably an ino rdinate number of landings.- No cracks-either place=0A=0AReuven Silberm an=0A=0A=0AEnjoy life now=0AIt has an expiration date.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday , February 10, 2014 2:15 PM, MLE wrote:=0A =0ARV-6 A 826ME=0A~300 hours=0Amild Acro=0ANo Cracks HS or E=0A=0AMarty=0A=0A=0ATim e: 10:57:43 PM PST US=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs=0AFrom: Jack =0A=0ARV7A -781JG=0A466 hrs=0ANo aero=0ANo cracks HS or E=0A =0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0A> On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM,-vanremog@aol.c om-wrote:=0A>=0A> Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections , that you report b=0Aack to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra=0Acks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles ( no aero, mild aero, hard ae=0Aro) to help us understand the overall fleet c ondition and assess the airfram=0Ae life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. -Some of you a=0Are quite easy on these airframes wh ile others I'm sure are yank and bankers.=0A=0A>=0A> As for my RV-6A situat ion at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in eith=0Aer the horizontal st ab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics,=0A-a few dozen h ours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and on=0Aly one tim ==== ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:42 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs On 2/10/2014 2:03 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote: > I did the inspections and could see no problems, though I should > mention that since my airplane was painted before It was flown, it was > painted in pieces (55 to be exact). So my elevators and H.S. have > color coat on top of the primer virtually everywhere that is visible. > That urethane paint is pretty tough and flexible. There could be a > crack in the aluminum without it showing through urethane, couldn't there? > > N811WT > IO-360-B2B > 3-blade Catto prop. > 125 hrs. > > No problems visible. > > -- > Tom Sargent Unfortunately, the SB says to remove paint/primer so you can see the cracks, if they are there. Q: Inspection: Remove the Empennage fairing. Carefully inspect for cracks emanating from the stress relief notch at the inboard end of the forward horizontal stabilizer spar flanges. (see Figure 1 and figure 3). Clean the area and remove any paint, overspray or primer that could hide a crack. Cracks may be very small and hard to detect. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:33 PM PST US From: "John Brick" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Empennage SB RV-4, 1340 hours, lots of acro, very few grass strip landings... no cracks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Reuven Silberman Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 2:20 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Empennage SB 2005 RV7A, TT 600, no acro, used it for RV checkouts, so probably an inordinate number of landings. No cracks either place Reuven Silberman Enjoy life now It has an expiration date. On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:15 PM, MLE wrote: RV-6A 826ME ~300 hours mild Acro No Cracks HS or E Marty Time: 10:57:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs From: Jack RV7A 781JG 466 hrs No aero No cracks HS or E Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: > > Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report b ack to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra cks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard ae ro) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airfram e life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you a re quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. > > As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in eith er the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and on ly one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. > > -GV > List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navigators.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank" rel="no== --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG From: vanremog@aol.com You could propose that, Tracy but, aside from there being zero evidence for that assertion, we would need to see more than just your word on it. As t hey say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". ;o) -GV -----Original Message----- From: Tracy Sent: Mon, Feb 10, 2014 4:03 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG Might I propose (with tongue only slightly in cheek) that the problem is on the other end of the airplane. The only conceivable root cause of HS / E levator spar cracking is a resonant vibration of these parts excited by tha t throbbing thing at the nose. Possibly primary engine frequency during o peration (aggravating factor being prop imbalance) or the tail shaking viol ently during startup and shutdown, in which case problem may be related to number of start/stop cycles rather than hours or aerobatic stress. RV-4 1850 hours RV-8 220 hours (Both - Mazda rotary engine powered) Sent from my iPad On Feb 10, 2014, at 1:57, Jack wrote: RV7A 781JG 466 hrs No aero No cracks HS or E Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you report ba ck to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no cracks, cra cks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no aero, mild aero, hard a ero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airfr ame life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of yo u are quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bank ers. As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress found in eithe r the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions during cross countries and o nly one time to +6gs during botched maneuver. -GV D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:33 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG I doubt that vibration up front causes the HS/rudder spar cracking although lack of dynamic prop balance does play hell with the front end .... instruments, especially gyros. However, I think the more logical culprit is the HS/rudder banging against the stops in the wind. IMHO, of course! Linn On 2/10/2014 9:01 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: > You could propose that, Tracy but, aside from there being zero > evidence for that assertion, we would need to see more than just your > word on it. As they say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary > evidence". ;o) > -GV > -----Original Message----- > From: Tracy > To: rv-list > Sent: Mon, Feb 10, 2014 4:03 am > Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG > > Might I propose (with tongue only slightly in cheek) that the problem > is on the other end of the airplane. The only conceivable root cause > of HS / Elevator spar cracking is a resonant vibration of these parts > excited by that throbbing thing at the nose. Possibly primary engine > frequency during operation (aggravating factor being prop imbalance) > or the tail shaking violently during startup and shutdown, in which > case problem may be related to number of start/stop cycles rather than > hours or aerobatic stress. > > RV-4 1850 hours > RV-8 220 hours > (Both - Mazda rotary engine powered) > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 10, 2014, at 1:57, Jack > > wrote: > >> RV7A 781JG >> 466 hrs >> No aero >> No cracks HS or E >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com >> wrote: >> >>> Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you >>> report back to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results >>> (no cracks, cracks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no >>> aero, mild aero, hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet >>> condition and assess the airframe life of these designs under the >>> normal range of conditions. Some of you are quite easy on these >>> airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. >>> As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress >>> found in either the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of >>> mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions >>> during cross countries and only one time to +6gs during botched >>> maneuver. >>> -GV >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> * >> >> D============================================ >> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> D============================================ >> //forums.matronics.com >> D============================================ >> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> D============================================ >> >> * > * > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > * > > > * > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:16 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG On the other hand, there appears to be zero evidence of *any* cause, at least from Van's A/C, yet the cracks are there, on some airframes. And Tracy isn't the 1st to mention it as a possible source of the problem. What's so extraordinary about the assertion? Many have commented about major 'tail shake' at startup & shutdown. Charlie On 2/10/2014 8:01 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: > You could propose that, Tracy but, aside from there being zero > evidence for that assertion, we would need to see more than just your > word on it. As they say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary > evidence". ;o) > -GV > -----Original Message----- > From: Tracy > To: rv-list > Sent: Mon, Feb 10, 2014 4:03 am > Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG > > Might I propose (with tongue only slightly in cheek) that the problem > is on the other end of the airplane. The only conceivable root cause > of HS / Elevator spar cracking is a resonant vibration of these parts > excited by that throbbing thing at the nose. Possibly primary engine > frequency during operation (aggravating factor being prop imbalance) > or the tail shaking violently during startup and shutdown, in which > case problem may be related to number of start/stop cycles rather than > hours or aerobatic stress. > > RV-4 1850 hours > RV-8 220 hours > (Both - Mazda rotary engine powered) > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 10, 2014, at 1:57, Jack > > wrote: > >> RV7A 781JG >> 466 hrs >> No aero >> No cracks HS or E >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com >> wrote: >> >>> Might I suggest as you all go about your SB inspections, that you >>> report back to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results >>> (no cracks, cracks, extensive cracks) and your flying profiles (no >>> aero, mild aero, hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet >>> condition and assess the airframe life of these designs under the >>> normal range of conditions. Some of you are quite easy on these >>> airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. >>> As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks or distress >>> found in either the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of >>> mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions >>> during cross countries and only one time to +6gs during botched >>> maneuver. >>> -GV >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG From: vanremog@aol.com Let's follow this line of thinking to its logical conclusion. If the rudde r banging back and forth were a cause of the HS and elevator hinge mount cr acking phenomena in the SBs then we would expect it to be worse in the A ai rframes, since they are not restrained from motion while parked as are the non-A airframes. Once we get more data, we will see if there is even a cor relation, much less causation. I will withhold judgment until such time as I have more data, but I find th e possibility unlikely. -GV -----Original Message----- From: Linn Walters Sent: Mon, Feb 10, 2014 6:14 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG I doubt that vibration up front causes the HS/rudder spar cracking alt hough lack of dynamic prop balance does play hell with the front end . ... instruments, especially gyros. However, I think the more logical culprit is the HS/rudder banging against the stops in the wind. IMHO, of course! Linn On 2/10/2014 9:01 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: You could propose that, Tracy but, aside from there being zero evidence for that assertion, we would need to see more than just your word on it. As they say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". ;o) -GV -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: rv-list Sent: Mon, Feb 10, 2014 4:03 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG Might I propose (with tongue only slightly in cheek) that th e problem is on the other end of the airplane. The only co nceivable root cause of HS / Elevator spar cracking is a res onant vibration of these parts excited by that throbbing thi ng at the nose. Possibly primary engine frequency during o peration (aggravating factor being prop imbalance) or the ta il shaking violently during startup and shutdown, in which c ase problem may be related to number of start/stop cycles ra ther than hours or aerobatic stress. RV-4 1850 hours RV-8 220 hours (Both - Mazda rotary engine powered) Sent from my iPad On Feb 10, 2014, at 1:57, Jack wrote: RV7A 781JG 466 hrs No aero No cracks HS or E Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: Might I suggest as you all go about your SB insp ections, that you report back to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no crack s, cracks, extensive cracks) and your flying pro files (no aero, mild aero, hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airframe life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you are quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks o r distress found in either the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions dur ing cross countries and only one time to +6gs duri ng botched maneuver. -GV D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/10/14 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG From: vanremog@aol.com Charlie- You misunderstand me. I would love to see the evidence, even if it was ext raordinary. Neither am I arguing against dynamic balancing, as mine was dy namically balanced by Dave Morss before it even flew the first time. It could be aerobatic motor mounts, the horizontal stab going into resonanc e, flutter or any other dynamic force. As with Occum's razor, I am looking for the most likely causes. Horses, not zebras, although I admit it may t urn out to be zebras... -GV On the other hand, there appears to be zero evidence of *any* cause, a t least from Van's A/C, yet the cracks are there, on some airframes. A nd Tracy isn't the 1st to mention it as a possible source of the probl em. What's so extraordinary about the assertion? Many have commented a bout major 'tail shake' at startup & shutdown -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England Sent: Mon, Feb 10, 2014 6:23 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG On the other hand, there appears to be zero evidence of *any* cause, a t least from Van's A/C, yet the cracks are there, on some airframes. A nd Tracy isn't the 1st to mention it as a possible source of the probl em. What's so extraordinary about the assertion? Many have commented a bout major 'tail shake' at startup & shutdown. Charlie On 2/10/2014 8:01 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: You could propose that, Tracy but, aside from there being zero evidence for that assertion, we would need to see more than just your word on it. As they say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". ;o) -GV -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: rv-list Sent: Mon, Feb 10, 2014 4:03 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage SBs SWAG Might I propose (with tongue only slightly in cheek) that th e problem is on the other end of the airplane. The only co nceivable root cause of HS / Elevator spar cracking is a res onant vibration of these parts excited by that throbbing thi ng at the nose. Possibly primary engine frequency during o peration (aggravating factor being prop imbalance) or the ta il shaking violently during startup and shutdown, in which c ase problem may be related to number of start/stop cycles ra ther than hours or aerobatic stress. RV-4 1850 hours RV-8 220 hours (Both - Mazda rotary engine powered) Sent from my iPad On Feb 10, 2014, at 1:57, Jack wrote: RV7A 781JG 466 hrs No aero No cracks HS or E Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:41 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote: Might I suggest as you all go about your SB insp ections, that you report back to the lists with your a/c type, TTA, inspection results (no crack s, cracks, extensive cracks) and your flying pro files (no aero, mild aero, hard aero) to help us understand the overall fleet condition and assess the airframe life of these designs under the normal range of conditions. Some of you are quite easy on these airframes while others I'm sure are yank and bankers. As for my RV-6A situation at 1130 TTA, no cracks o r distress found in either the horizontal stab or elevator, with a history of mild to no aerobatics, a few dozen hours in mountain wave conditions dur ing cross countries and only one time to +6gs duri ng botched maneuver. -GV ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.