---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/05/14: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:08 AM - Engine out over KOCF (Charles Brame) 2. 10:51 AM - Re: Engine out over KOCF (Bob-tcw) 3. 11:07 AM - Re: Engine out over KOCF (Bobby Hester) 4. 08:35 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IEVuZ2luZSBvdXQgb3ZlciBLT0NG? (=?utf-8?B?Qm9iIENvbGxpbnM=?=) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:57 AM PST US From: Charles Brame Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF Bob, Great job and great report. No photos attached, however. Any chance of a url or a web site to show the photos? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB - with a vertical mount AFP fuel injection. San Antonio ----------------------------------------------------- > Time: 03:59:59 PM PST US > From: "Bob-tcw" > Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF > > Fellow RVs, > > Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had > the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news > first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, > flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the > first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!! > > Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on > others building or flying RV's. > > Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the > throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and > disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture > to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw > fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred. > > My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I > have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount > FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum > clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does > not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this > clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the > whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is > exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the > bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all. > > Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the > mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts > with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the > throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these > studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that > hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing > together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the > mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final > installation. > > Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance > fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look > at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this > thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting > the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING! > > Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I > just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very > instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my > various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle > positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the excess > fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able to get > some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture radically. > However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so > minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing.... > mission accomplished. > > > Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated > installation. > > > Bob Newman > N541RV 200 hrs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:21 AM PST US From: "Bob-tcw" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF The original listing had pictures when I posted it. Did anyone else see them? Here=99s a url to one of the pics I put on my google+ album. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-36L4ELs0R10/Uz8rUckKBfI/AAAAAAAAUCE/Fu 3xneaqtWQ/w769-h577-no/2014-04-03+13.22.23.jpg Bob From: Charles Brame Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 11:06 AM Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF Bob, Great job and great report. No photos attached, however. Any chance of a url or a web site to show the photos? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB - with a vertical mount AFP fuel injection. San Antonio ----------------------------------------------------- Time: 03:59:59 PM PST US From: "Bob-tcw" Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF Fellow RVs, Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!! Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on others building or flying RV's. Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred. My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all. Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final installation. Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING! Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture radically. However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing.... mission accomplished. Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation. Bob Newman N541RV 200 hrs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:13 AM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF Yes, they were there. All the way at the bottom. Sent from my Verizon iPhone > On Apr 5, 2014, at 1:50 PM, "Bob-tcw" wrote: > > The original listing had pictures when I posted it. Did anyone else see them? > > Here=99s a url to one of the pics I put on my google+ album. > > https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-36L4ELs0R10/Uz8rUckKBfI/AAAAAAAAUCE/Fu 3xneaqtWQ/w769-h577-no/2014-04-03+13.22.23.jpg > > > Bob > > From: Charles Brame > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 11:06 AM > To: List RV > Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF > > Bob, > > Great job and great report. No photos attached, however. Any chance of a u rl or a web site to show the photos? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB - with a vertical mount AFP fuel injection. > San Antonio > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > >> Time: 03:59:59 PM PST US >> From: "Bob-tcw" >> Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF >> >> Fellow RVs, >> >> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I ha d >> the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good new s >> first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, >> flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the >> first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!! >> >> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effec t on >> others building or flying RV's. >> >> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off th e >> throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and >> disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixtu re >> to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I s aw >> fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred. >> >> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I >> have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount >> FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminu m >> clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system doe s >> not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this >> clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body t he >> whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is >> exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the >> bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all. >> >> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath t he >> mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts >> with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the >> throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these >> studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that >> hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing >> together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the >> mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final >> installation. >> >> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performanc e >> fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a loo k >> at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure th is >> thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disruptin g >> the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING! >> >> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I >> just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very >> instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my >> various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle >> positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the excess >> fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able to g et >> some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture radical ly. >> However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so >> minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing. ... >> mission accomplished. >> >> >> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated >> installation. >> >> >> Bob Newman >> N541RV 200 hrs > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:52 PM PST US From: "=?utf-8?B?Qm9iIENvbGxpbnM=?=" Subject: RV-List: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IEVuZ2luZSBvdXQgb3ZlciBLT0NG? 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