Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:23 AM - Re: Engine out over KOCF (Tim Lewis)
2. 12:15 PM - Re: Engine out over KOCF (Bobby Hester)
3. 01:09 PM - Re: Engine out over KOCF (Charlie England)
4. 01:52 PM - Re: Engine out over KOCF (Tcwtech)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
I second that, the vertical safeties are not needed and the wraps are not tight
near the bolt heads. Refer to the drawings
Sent from my Verizon iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> An involuntary glider ride is no fun -- I'm glad you were able to land safely.
Thanks for sharing your experience (and the cause) with the group.
>
> I'm confused by the safety wire shown in your photos (particularly the vertical
runs of safety wire up to the coupling nuts). Is your primary intent to safety
the 4 drilled-head AN-3 bolts that penetrate down through the FAB aluminum
cover? If so, normal practice as I understand it would be to just safety wire
those AN-3 bolts to each other in pairs (as shown in AC 43.13-1B, page 7-20,
Figure 7-3, for example).
>
> <iibijbca.png>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> A&P
> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
> RV-10 N31TD -- 500 hrs
> Bob-tcw said the following on 4/4/2014 6:58 PM:
>> Fellow RVs,
>>
>> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had the
opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news first:
This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the
plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
>>
>> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on others
building or flying RV's.
>>
>> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the throttle
body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way
out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow
rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>>
>> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I have
the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount FM-200
fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use safety-wired
bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered airbox
can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened.
When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire filtered
airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>>
>> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts with
drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so I
didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle
body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040
wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
>>
>> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance fuel
injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at your
installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing
can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>>
>> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just
happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive to
see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts to
get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs, and
now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the
insight to try and close the mixture radically. However, I can say with confidence
my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of trying to get power was on
flying the plane to a safe landing.... mission accomplished.
>>
>>
>> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
>>
>>
>> Bob Newman
>> N541RV 200 hrs
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
I've got no experience with that system, but I read the original post as
saying that the stock setup only uses a clamp around the inlet neck of
the throttle body to hold the airbox on the throttle body. I thought
that he was using the vertical runs of safety wire as a safety to keep
the airbox up if the clamp releases its grip (again).
On 4/6/2014 2:14 PM, Bobby Hester wrote:
>
> I second that, the vertical safeties are not needed and the wraps are not tight
near the bolt heads. Refer to the drawings
>
> Sent from my Verizon iPhone
>
>> On Apr 6, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> An involuntary glider ride is no fun -- I'm glad you were able to land safely.
Thanks for sharing your experience (and the cause) with the group.
>>
>> I'm confused by the safety wire shown in your photos (particularly the vertical
runs of safety wire up to the coupling nuts). Is your primary intent to safety
the 4 drilled-head AN-3 bolts that penetrate down through the FAB aluminum
cover? If so, normal practice as I understand it would be to just safety wire
those AN-3 bolts to each other in pairs (as shown in AC 43.13-1B, page 7-20,
Figure 7-3, for example).
>>
>> <iibijbca.png>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>> A&P
>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>> RV-10 N31TD -- 500 hrs
>> Bob-tcw said the following on 4/4/2014 6:58 PM:
>>> Fellow RVs,
>>>
>>> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had
the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news first:
This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the
plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
>>>
>>> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on
others building or flying RV's.
>>>
>>> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the
throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way
out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow
rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>>>
>>> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I
have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount FM-200
fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use safety-wired
bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered airbox
can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened.
When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire filtered
airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>>>
>>> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts
with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so I
didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle
body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040
wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
>>>
>>> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance
fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at
your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing
can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>>>
>>> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just
happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive to
see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts
to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs,
and now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the
insight to try and close the mixture radically. However, I can say with confidence
my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of trying to get power was on
flying the plane to a safe landing.... mission accomplished.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Newman
>>> N541RV 200 hrs
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
Charlie has it right. The whole point is to provide a safety means in the vertical
direction. The clamping doughnut is below the filtered airbox plate and not
visible in the picture. The four bolts that I safety wired to thread into
the doughnut. I safety wired between the bolts to provide additional protection
against them backing out. However, those four bolts could be removed and
as long as the clamping doughnut remained tight the box can't come off. Lastly
the vertical safety wire doesn't exactly need to be crazy tight as it would
require about 3/4" of travel before the doughnut comes disengaged from the
fuel servo.
Bob Newman.
On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:10 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've got no experience with that system, but I read the original post as saying
that the stock setup only uses a clamp around the inlet neck of the throttle
body to hold the airbox on the throttle body. I thought that he was using the
vertical runs of safety wire as a safety to keep the airbox up if the clamp
releases its grip (again).
>
> On 4/6/2014 2:14 PM, Bobby Hester wrote:
>>
>> I second that, the vertical safeties are not needed and the wraps are not tight
near the bolt heads. Refer to the drawings
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon iPhone
>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> An involuntary glider ride is no fun -- I'm glad you were able to land safely.
Thanks for sharing your experience (and the cause) with the group.
>>>
>>> I'm confused by the safety wire shown in your photos (particularly the vertical
runs of safety wire up to the coupling nuts). Is your primary intent to
safety the 4 drilled-head AN-3 bolts that penetrate down through the FAB aluminum
cover? If so, normal practice as I understand it would be to just safety
wire those AN-3 bolts to each other in pairs (as shown in AC 43.13-1B, page 7-20,
Figure 7-3, for example).
>>>
>>> <iibijbca.png>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> --
>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>> A&P
>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 500 hrs
>>> Bob-tcw said the following on 4/4/2014 6:58 PM:
>>>> Fellow RVs,
>>>>
>>>> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had
the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news first:
This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the
plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
>>>>
>>>> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on
others building or flying RV's.
>>>>
>>>> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the
throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way
out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow
rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>>>>
>>>> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I
have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount FM-200
fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use safety-wired
bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered airbox
can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened.
When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire filtered
airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts
with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so
I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle
body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040
wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance
fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at
your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing
can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just
happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive
to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts
to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs,
and now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the
insight to try and close the mixture radically. However, I can say with confidence
my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of trying to get power was on
flying the plane to a safe landing.... mission accomplished.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Newman
>>>> N541RV 200 hrs
>
>
>
>
>
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