---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/11/14: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - Re: EarthX fire (Linn Walters) 2. 07:19 AM - Re: EarthX fire (Dan Bergeron) 3. 09:33 AM - Re: EarthX fire (Jeff Luckey) 4. 09:46 AM - Alternative engine gathering at Slobovia Outernational (MS71) (Charlie England) 5. 10:45 AM - Re: EarthX fire (John Morgensen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:28 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: EarthX fire Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensitive to thermal runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop. Their charge profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries. Even the 'experts' get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner battery' to see the carnage. I'd wait a while before switching. Linn On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote: > I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s that > I lug around and getting lithium batteries, I could probably save 20 > lbs, but every time I get close I read about this sort of thing: > http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24135454&postcount=9894 > > So I'll probably wait a few more years... > > Bill Judge > N84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs > RV-8.blogspot.com > > * > > > * > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: EarthX fire From: Dan Bergeron Good Morning The only lithium ion battery in my airplane is in my cell phone - no way I would go beyond that - the risk of thermal runaway too high and the potential consequences catastrophic - no thanks - fly safe Dan Bergeron RV-7A - N307TB 500+ hours since first flight Aug 6, 2009 On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensitive to thermal > runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop. Their charge > profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries. Even the 'experts' > get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner battery' to see the > carnage. I'd wait a while before switching. > Linn > > > On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote: > > I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s that I > lug around and getting lithium batteries, I could probably save 20 lbs, but > every time I get close I read about this sort of thing: > http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24135454&postcount=9894 > > So I'll probably wait a few more years... > > Bill Judge > N84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs > RV-8.blogspot.com > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 05/10/14 > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:28 AM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: RV-List: EarthX fire Bill,=0A=0AI use Li-po batts in my R/C model airplanes and they are great f or that application, HOWEVER, they require a fair amount of care.- They n eed a special charger; they are extremely sensitive to over-charging & bein g drained below a certain voltage.- Generally they are very temperamental and need lot of baby-sitting.- They are great for R/Cs because they are half the weight of alternatives but I track each charge, the number of cycl es, etc for each pack that I own and generally treat them w/ a lot of respe ct.=0A=0AAs other posters have mentioned, when they fail, it can be spectac ular.- I once watched a Nissan hatchback burn to the tires at my local mo del flying field because the owner was charging a lipo pack in the back sea t. =0A=0AI don't think they are ready for prime time in Experimental aircra ft.- I think that there have been some articles in Kit Planes recently ab out this subject and I believe the author reaches the same conclusion. =0A =0A=0A-Jeff=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Dan Bergeron =0ATo: rv-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: EarthX fire=0A =0A=0A=0AGood Morning =0AThe only lithium ion battery in my airplane is in my cell phone - no way I would go beyond that - the risk of thermal runaway too high and the pote ntial consequences catastrophic - no thanks - fly safe=0ADan Bergeron=0ARV- 7A -- N307TB=0A500+ hours since first-=0A- - -flight Aug 6, 2009 -=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Linn Walters wrote:=0A=0ALithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensiti ve to thermal runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop. - Their charge profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries.- Even the 'experts' get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner battery' to see the carnage.- I'd wait a while before switching.=0A>Linn=0A>=0A> =0A>On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote:=0A>=0A>I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s that I lug-around and getting li thium batteries, I could probably save 20 lbs,-but every time I get close I read about this sort of thing: =0A>>http://advrider.com/forums/showpost. php?p=24135454&postcount=9894=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>So I'll probably wait a few more years...=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Bill Judge=0AN84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs=0A>> =0A>>RV-8.blogspot.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>No virus found in this message.=0A>>Ch ecked by AVG - www.avg.com=0A>>05/10/14=0A>=0A>=0A>t="_blank">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http: =========================0A =========================0A ======================= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:21 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: RV-List: Alternative engine gathering at Slobovia Outernational (MS71) We're hosting an alternative engine seminar this weekend here at Slobovia Outernational, May 16-18. If you're building, flying, or just thinking about an alternative engine, we'd love to have you attend. If you want to come, please drop me a line at mcsophie@gmail.com or give us a call at 601-879-9596 to RSVP so we can have a headcount for food, etc. You're welcome to camp on the field, or bring a bedroll & find a spot in the house or hangar. Hotels are about 20 minutes away by car, and there's a campground about 2 miles north. Slobovia is about 10 miles north of Jackson MS on the Memphis sectional. Give me a shout for driving directions. Google Maps gets it right, but some automotive GPS's do not. Hope to see you this weekend, Charlie ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:43 AM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: RV-List: EarthX fire Jeff, Please be sure to distinguish between Li-po and Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). The Iron Phosphate chemistry holds some promise for experimental aviation. The LiPo chemistry used in R/C planes does not. john On 5/11/2014 9:31 AM, Jeff Luckey wrote: > Bill, > > I use Li-po batts in my R/C model airplanes and they are great for > that application, HOWEVER, they require a fair amount of care. They > need a special charger; they are extremely sensitive to over-charging > & being drained below a certain voltage. Generally they are very > temperamental and need lot of baby-sitting. They are great for R/Cs > because they are half the weight of alternatives but I track each > charge, the number of cycles, etc for each pack that I own and > generally treat them w/ a lot of respect. > > As other posters have mentioned, when they fail, it can be > spectacular. I once watched a Nissan hatchback burn to the tires at > my local model flying field because the owner was charging a lipo pack > in the back seat. > > I don't think they are ready for prime time in Experimental aircraft. > I think that there have been some articles in Kit Planes recently > about this subject and I believe the author reaches the same conclusion. > > -Jeff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Dan Bergeron > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:18 AM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: EarthX fire > > Good Morning > The only lithium ion battery in my airplane is in my cell phone - no > way I would go beyond that - the risk of thermal runaway too high and > the potential consequences catastrophic - no thanks - fly safe > Dan Bergeron > RV-7A - N307TB > 500+ hours since first > flight Aug 6, 2009 > > > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Linn Walters > wrote: > > Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensitive to thermal > runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop. Their > charge profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries. > Even the 'experts' get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner > battery' to see the carnage. I'd wait a while before switching. > Linn > > > On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote: >> I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s >> that I lug around and getting lithium batteries, I could probably >> save 20 lbs, but every time I get close I read about this sort of >> thing: >> http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24135454&postcount=9894 >> >> So I'll probably wait a few more years... >> >> Bill Judge >> N84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs >> RV-8.blogspot.com >> >> * >> >> >> * >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 05/10/14 > > * > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > *http://www.matro=================== > > * > > > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.