Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:25 AM - log book errro (Thomas Sargent)
2. 08:44 AM - Re: log book errro (Linn Walters)
3. 09:07 AM - Re: log book errro (Thomas Sargent)
4. 09:10 AM - Re: log book errro (Gary A. Sobek)
5. 09:29 AM - Re: log book errro (Kelly McMullen)
6. 09:43 AM - Re: log book errro (Linn Walters)
7. 04:16 PM - Re: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor (HCRV6@comcast.net)
8. 07:37 PM - Re: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor (vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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When doing my annual this year I checked back on the previous log entries I
made for my other annual inspections. I was amazed to discover that a
couple years ago I did not make the standard entry about "i gave
inspected... it complies with..." etc. I just wrote "completed annual
inspection".
Is this really a mistake? Do you need the standard verbiage?
If it is a mistake, how do I make it right?
I also keep a separate, unofficial document for each inspection. It's a
long check list of everything I did along with with notes, my signature and
certificate number. Probably has no standing with the FAA, but it exists.
--
Tom Sargent
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: log book errro |
On 8/22/2014 11:22 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
> When doing my annual this year I checked back on the previous log
> entries I made for my other annual inspections. I was amazed to
> discover that a couple years ago I did not make the standard entry
> about "i gave inspected... it complies with..." etc. I just wrote
> "completed annual inspection".
>
> Is this really a mistake? Do you need the standard verbiage?
If there was ever a problem ..... the standard verbiage would be
better. And remember it's not an 'annual', but a 'conditional inspection'
>
> If it is a mistake, how do I make it right?
Use the standard verbiage next time.
>
> I also keep a separate, unofficial document for each inspection. It's
> a long check list of everything I did along with with notes, my
> signature and certificate number. Probably has no standing with the
> FAA, but it exists.
Actually, this is what my FSDO recommended as long as it's kept with the
logbooks .... especially since my 'conditional inspection' occurs over
the year (mostly). Anything not covered during the year is covered in
Jan ... when my entry in the logbook occurs. It's amazing what you do
throughout the year making improvements/mods and doing normal maintenance.
Linn
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: log book errro |
Perhaps I should clarify that the separate document I keep is everything I
did during the inspection - what I inspected and what the results were.
It's not a record of oil changes or repairs. Those are in the log book.
--
Tom Sargent
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: log book errro |
Conditional Inspection? Where in FAA Orders / Operating Limitations
does it call out Conditional other than for a sale of an aircraft?
FAA Order 8130.2G Change 1
<http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/7a09d53f
b0d5325586257885004d9e1b/$FILE/8130.2G_CHG1.pdf>
calls out a Condition Inspection. If you look at your Operating
Limitations=2C it will also.
> No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12
> calendar months it has had a *condition inspection* performed in
> accordance with the scope and detail of 14 CFR part 43=2C appendix D=2C o
r
> other FAA-approved programs=2C and was found to be in a condition for
> safe operation. As part of the condition inspection=2C cockpit
> instruments must be appropriately marked and needed placards installed
> in accordance with 14 CFR =C2=A7 91.9. In addition=2C system-essential
> controls must be in good condition=2C securely mounted=2C clearly marked
=2C
> and provide for ease of operation. This inspection will be recorded in
> the aircraft logbook and maintenance records.
> *Condition inspections* must be recorded in the aircraft logbook and
> maintenance records showing the following=2C or a similarly worded=2C
> statement: =9CI certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [i
nsert
> date] in accordance with the scope and detail of 14 CFR part 43=2C
> appendix D=2C and was found to be in a condition for safe operation.
=9D
> The entry will include the aircraft=99s total time-in-service (cycl
es if
> appropriate)=2C and the name=2C signature=2C certificate number=2C and ty
pe of
> certificate held by the person performing the inspection.
On 08-22-2014=2C 11:40 AM=2C Linn Walters wrote:
> On 8/22/2014 11:22 AM=2C Thomas Sargent wrote:
>> When doing my annual this year I checked back on the previous log
>> entries I made for my other annual inspections. I was amazed to
>> discover that a couple years ago I did not make the standard entry
>> about "i gave inspected... it complies with..." etc. I just wrote
>> "completed annual inspection".
>>
>> Is this really a mistake? Do you need the standard verbiage?
> If there was ever a problem ..... the standard verbiage would be
> better. And remember it's not an 'annual'=2C but a '*conditional
> inspection*'
>>
>> If it is a mistake=2C how do I make it right?
> Use the standard verbiage next time.
>>
>> I also keep a separate=2C unofficial document for each inspection.
>> It's a long check list of everything I did along with with notes=2C my
>> signature and certificate number. Probably has no standing with the
>> FAA=2C but it exists.
> Actually=2C this is what my FSDO recommended as long as it's kept with
> the logbooks .... especially since my 'conditional inspection' occurs
> over the year (mostly). Anything not covered during the year is
> covered in Jan ... when my entry in the logbook occurs. It's amazing
> what you do throughout the year making improvements/mods and doing
> normal maintenance.
> Linn
>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>> *
>> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: log book errro |
The easiest fix....do a computer generated labeln sticker with the
correct language quoted directly from your operating limitations.
Place the sticker right over the incorrect entry and sign it.
Experimentals do not get an annual inspection, just a condition
inspection that occurs annually.
KellyM
A&P/IA
On 8/22/2014 8:22 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
> When doing my annual this year I checked back on the previous log
> entries I made for my other annual inspections. I was amazed to
> discover that a couple years ago I did not make the standard entry
> about "i gave inspected... it complies with..." etc. I just wrote
> "completed annual inspection".
>
> Is this really a mistake? Do you need the standard verbiage?
>
> If it is a mistake, how do I make it right?
>
> I also keep a separate, unofficial document for each inspection. It's
> a long check list of everything I did along with with notes, my
> signature and certificate number. Probably has no standing with the
> FAA, but it exists.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: log book errro |
Sorry ... typing faster than the brain works. Thanks for the heads up.
Linn
On 8/22/2014 12:10 PM, Gary A. Sobek wrote:
> Conditional Inspection? Where in FAA Orders / Operating Limitations
> does it call out Conditional other than for a sale of an aircraft?
>
> FAA Order 8130.2G Change 1
> <http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/7a09d53fb0d5325586257885004d9e1b/$FILE/8130.2G_CHG1.pdf>
> calls out a Condition Inspection. If you look at your Operating
> Limitations, it will also.
>
>> No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12
>> calendar months it has had a *condition inspection* performed in
>> accordance with the scope and detail of 14 CFR part 43, appendix D,
>> or other FAA-approved programs, and was found to be in a condition
>> for safe operation. As part of the condition inspection, cockpit
>> instruments must be appropriately marked and needed placards
>> installed in accordance with 14 CFR 91.9. In addition,
>> system-essential controls must be in good condition, securely
>> mounted, clearly marked, and provide for ease of operation. This
>> inspection will be recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance
>> records.
>
>> *Condition inspections* must be recorded in the aircraft logbook and
>> maintenance records showing the following, or a similarly worded,
>> statement: I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on
>> [insert date] in accordance with the scope and detail of 14 CFR part
>> 43, appendix D, and was found to be in a condition for safe
>> operation. The entry will include the aircrafts total
>> time-in-service (cycles if appropriate), and the name, signature,
>> certificate number, and type of certificate held by the person
>> performing the inspection.
>
>
> On 08-22-2014, 11:40 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>> On 8/22/2014 11:22 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
>>> When doing my annual this year I checked back on the previous log
>>> entries I made for my other annual inspections. I was amazed to
>>> discover that a couple years ago I did not make the standard entry
>>> about "i gave inspected... it complies with..." etc. I just wrote
>>> "completed annual inspection".
>>>
>>> Is this really a mistake? Do you need the standard verbiage?
>> If there was ever a problem ..... the standard verbiage would be
>> better. And remember it's not an 'annual', but a '*conditional
>> inspection*'
>>>
>>> If it is a mistake, how do I make it right?
>> Use the standard verbiage next time.
>>>
>>> I also keep a separate, unofficial document for each inspection.
>>> It's a long check list of everything I did along with with notes,
>>> my signature and certificate number. Probably has no standing with
>>> the FAA, but it exists.
>> Actually, this is what my FSDO recommended as long as it's kept with
>> the logbooks .... especially since my 'conditional inspection' occurs
>> over the year (mostly). Anything not covered during the year is
>> covered in Jan ... when my entry in the logbook occurs. It's amazing
>> what you do throughout the year making improvements/mods and doing
>> normal maintenance.
>> Linn
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Sargent
>>> *
>>> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor |
Hi Dave,
Interesting that you still get some hunting about the GPS course even with
your servo at the aileron bellcrank. Anyway, I agree that this is not a ser
ious drawback for the Trio and that the additional capabilities of the Trio
are definitely worth the minor annoyance it causes. The only time it reall
y bugs me is if I have one or more planes in loose formation trying to stay
with me questioning why I'm wandering about the course.
Harry Crosby
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Leonard" <wdleonard@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 12:50:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor
Hi Harry,
I also have an old Navaid control head sitting around that I would let go f
or a song (like a good show tune or something). But I actually recommend go
ing with the Trio. In my experience it has been very useful and works much
better than the Navaid ever did. I do get some minimal hunting while on GPS
flight plan (servo is in wing at aileron bellcrank), but when using GPS co
urse as guidance (a ground course as opposed to trying to stay dead center
of the flight plan) it is rock solid and there is no hunting at all. I find
that is the way I usually fly anyway, as I am always making deviations for
airspace or traffic or what-not anyway and never bother to fly all the way
back to the flight plan path.
Dave Leonard
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:04 PM, < HCRV6@comcast.net > wrote:
Wow, thanks Gary I will try that right away.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 1200 hours (as of last flight.)
From: "Gary A. Sobek" < RV6_Flyer@hotmail.com >
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 4:48:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor
Harry:
I did the same as you. I can dampen out the hunting by adding some aileron
trim bias to one side. (Turn manual aileron trim as far as it will go to on
e side.) The load on the control helps with hunting.
Gary:
There is a thread on VAF about the motor replacement.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=38078
I recommend reading post #5. It says almost any motor can be used as a repl
acement but stated that the Micromo was the longest lasting. There is a lin
k to a less expensive item on eBay.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,900+ Flying Hours Pennsylvania, USA
On 08-18-2014, 7:24 PM, HCRV6@comcast.net wrote:
<blockquote>
GV,
The same thing happened to me on the way to OSH two years ago. I bought a T
rio head while there and installed it after I got home, using the old Navai
d servo. The Trio works OK and has some features that were not available in
the Navaid, but it has an annoying tendency that I have never been able to
trim out of hunting back and forth around the GPS course. If I could have
obtained a new motor for the Navaid I would have gone that way and been com
pletely satisfied (until it died again). The Trio folks insist that the pro
blem is because the servo is mounted under the passenger seat, just like yo
urs, and that they highly recommend mounting the servo in the wing tip. Bot
tom line is you will probably be happy if you go with a Trio and use the ol
d servo like I did, and just as happy if you find a replacement motor.
Harry Crosby
From: "Thomas Doran" <dorante@juno.com>
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 3:58:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor
I have two NAVAID control heads (one I got as a spare) and a servo that I r
emoved from my RV-8A. I replaced it with a Dynon Skyview and Autopilot.
I have been planning to put them on EBAY, but haven=99t gotten around
to it.
Are you interested?
Thanks,
Tom
On Aug 18, 2014, at 12:56 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote:
<blockquote>
Well it has finally happened again. The gyro motor on my ancient Navaid Dev
ices wing leveler has burned out. Navaid Devices went TU in 2008 and their
proprietary motor (Micromo 1624L012S692) is no longer available. Does anyon
e know if these motors are available elsewhere in someone's stash? I heard
that one of the Navaid people (Horace, I think) was the last to do the repa
irs before they closed their doors.
Is the right solution to go with the Trio head and keep the Navaid S1 servo
or replace the whole enchilada?
Comments from those who have gone thru this would be most helpful.
-Thx
GV
href= "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" > http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV-List href= "http://forums.matronics.com/" > http://foru
ms.matronics.com href= "http://www.matronics.com/contribution" > http://w
ww.matronics.com/contribution
____________________________________________________________
t="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List tp:// forums.matro
nics.com _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
om/Navigator?RV-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
s.com "> http://forums.matronics.com om/contribution"> http://www.matronics
.com/contribution
</blockquote>
t="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List tp:// forums.matro
nics.com _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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===
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor |
=0ASo, what I have found out is that the original motor fr
om Micromo is no longer available. The closest thing to t
he original is their 1624T012S123-277. It differs from the ori
ginal in the kind of grease used and the back shaft is 1
mm shorter. George Hunt and Jani Glover at Micromo were v
ery helpful in helping me nail down the details.=0A =0AThe r
eplacement motor is $110 and was in stock. I should have
it in a week or so and will advise whether I have the
AP-1 working again or it and the new motor have gone off
to Valhalla.=0A=0AThe challenge will be to install the .149" t
hick flywheel on the 4mm back shaft. I will rough up th
e shafts, apply some Loctite 271 and press the front flywhee
l on until flush then press the back flywheel on only .125
" or so. Once that is done and I have reassembled the
unit, balanced the gyro/motor/flywheel on its shaft and wired
it up I should be good to go. It's not nearly as comp
lex as the multilayer high density surface mounted defense boa
rds I work on every day, but does require a steady hand,
good soldering skills and a microscope. Hope for the best.=0A
=0A-GV=0A =0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: vanremog <vanremog
@aol.com>=0ATo: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Mon, Aug 18,
2014 5:45 pm=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor=0A=0A
=0AFirst, a couple of shots of the original motor Micromo 16
24L012S692 044.=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0ASo far the closest ite
ms to the original motor that I can track down easily are
the following and my known criteria are:=0A =0A12VDC=0A15,000 to
20,000 rpm =0A1620 to 1625 size (dia/bodyL)=0Adouble shaft 1.
5mm dia or greater (to allow use of the original flywheel
s)12VDC=0A=0A =0Ahttp://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/MHK1624.htm=0A =0Ahttp://ww
w.hollywoodfoundry.com/MHK1620.htm=0A =0A -GV=0A =0A-----Original Messag
e-----=0AFrom: Gary A. Sobek <RV6_Flyer@hotmail.com>=0ATo: rv-list <
rv-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Mon, Aug 18, 2014 4:50 pm=0ASubject:
Re: RV-List: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor=0A=0A=0A
=0A Harry:=0A I did the same as you. I
can dampen out the hunting by adding some aileron tri
m bias to one side. (Turn manual aileron trim as far as
it will go to one side.) The load on the cont
rol helps with hunting.=0A =0A Gary:=0A
There is a thread on VAF about the motor replacement.=0A
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=38078=0A
=0A I recommend reading post #5. It says al
most any motor can be used as a replacement but sta
ted that the Micromo was the longest lasting. There i
s a link to a less expensive item on eBay.=0A =0A
=0A Gary A. Sobek =0A "My San
ity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, =0A 2,900+
Flying Hours Pennsylvania, USA =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0AOn 08-18-2014, 7:24 PM,
HCRV6@comcast.net wrote:=0A =0A =0A
=0A =0AGV,=0A =0A=0A
=0A =0AThe same thing happe
ned to me on the way to OSH two years
ago. I bought a Trio head while there and installed it
after I got home, using the old Nava
id servo. The Trio works OK and has s
ome features that were not available in the Navaid, but
it has an annoying tendency that I have nev
er been able to trim out of hunting b
ack and forth around the GPS course. If
I could have obtained a new motor for the Navaid I w
ould have gone that way and been comple
tely satisfied (until it died again).
The Trio folks insist that the problem is because the
servo is mounted under the passenger seat, ju
st like yours, and that they highly rec
ommend mounting the servo in the wing t
ip. Bottom line is you will probably be happy if you go
with a Trio and use the old servo
like I did, and just as happy if you
find a replacement motor.=0A =0A
=0A=0A =0A =0AHarry Crosby=0A
=0A =0A=0A
=0A =0A =0AFrom:
"Thomas Doran" <dorante@juno.com>=0A
Monday, August 18, 2014 3:58:20 PM=0A Sub
ject: Re: RV-List: Navaid AP-1 gyro motor=0A
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A
=0A I have two
NAVAID control heads (one I got as a spare) and a
servo that I removed from my RV-8A. I repla
ced it with a Dynon Skyview and Autopil
ot. =0A=0A =0A
=0AI have been planning to put them on EBAY
, but haven=99t gotten around t
o it.=0A =0A=0A =0A
=0AAre you interested? =0A
=0A=0A =0A
=0AThanks, =0A =0A=0A
=0A =0A=0A =0A
=0ATom=0A =0A=0A
=0A =0A=0A
=0A =0AOn Aug 18,
2014, at 12:56 PM, vanremog@aol.com wrote:=0A
=0A =0A
=0AWell
it has finally happened again. The gyr
o motor on
my ancient Navaid Devices wing leveler has burned
out. Navaid Devices wen
t TU in 2008 and their
proprietary motor (Micromo 1624L012S692) is no
longer available.
Does anyone know if these
motors are available elsewhere in someone's
stash? I hear
d that one of the Navaid people
(Horace, I think) was the last to do
the repairs b
efore they closed their doors.=0A
=0A =0A =0A
Is the right solution to go with the Trio head
and keep the Navaid S1 servo
or replace the whole
enchilada?=0A =0A
=0A =0AComments from th
ose who have gone thru this would
be most helpful.=0A
=0A =0A
=0A-Thx=0A =0A =0A
=0AGV=0A
=0A=0A=0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.c
om=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution=0A=0A=0A =0A
=0A=0A
=0A ____________________
________________________________________=0A
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A =0A=0A=0At="_blank
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blan
k">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A=0A =0A
=0A=0A =0A =0A
=0A=0A=0Aom/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Li
st=0As.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Aom/contribution">http://www.matronics.
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