RV-List Digest Archive

Sun 05/22/16


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:40 AM - Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
     2. 08:06 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England)
     3. 08:18 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (bigdog@bentwing.com)
     4. 10:35 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
     5. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Dick Seiders)
     6. 12:25 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Hal Benjamin)
     7. 12:50 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
     8. 01:14 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Harry)
     9. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Jerry Springer)
    10. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (vanremog@aol.com)
    11. 03:10 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
    12. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England)
    13. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:40:40 AM PST US
    Subject: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    Hi Guys There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed Regards John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:06:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    On 5/22/2016 5:39 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > Hi Guys > > There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed > > Regards > > John I'm building a -7 (same fuselage), & can't figure out which area you're talking about. Having said that, I'm not an aero engineer, so I try not to second guess the designer (who, hopefully, is) if the area is structural. Perhaps the cover you're talking about is required to complete an area that's structurally significant. Charlie


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:18:26 AM PST US
    From: "bigdog@bentwing.com" <bigdog@bentwing.com>
    Subject: Fuselage #30 rivets
    The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason. Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:40 AM Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets Hi Guys There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed Regards John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:35:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    Charlie Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:57:21 AM PST US
    From: Dick Seiders <dickseiders@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    Read Greg young's answer again. Dick seiders Sent from my iPhone > On May 22, 2016, at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> wrote: > > > Charlie > > Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: > > https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) > > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:25:11 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: Hal Benjamin <halbenjamin101@gmail.com>
    Greg is right on. Besides, if you build it per Van's instructions that is one thing less to worry about as you're about to advance the throttle on your first flight! Hal Benjamin RV-4 Flying Long Island, NY 218 Hours Sent from my iPad > On May 22, 2016, at 11:17 AM, "bigdog@bentwing.com" <bigdog@bentwing.com> wrote: > > > The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason. > > Greg Young > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:40 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets > > > Hi Guys > > There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed > > Regards > > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:50:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:14:08 PM PST US
    From: Harry <HCRV6@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    Van is not known for an excessive use of anything. If the plans call for it, do it! Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 1365 hours. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:39:39 AM Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets Hi Guys There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed Regards John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:16:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@frontier.com>
    I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE over engineered. JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected > > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456 > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:19:25 PM PST US
    From: vanremog@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    Van's designs are "well engineered". Some things like the original spar were over engineered. Other areas were maybe a little light and prone to cracking but they have been corrected as the designs matured. After all of the things we have put Van's planes thru over the years I think it is safe to say that they have stood the test of time, so I would recommend building per plans. Small downside, large upside. -GV -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@frontier.com> Sent: Sun, May 22, 2016 1:17 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE over engineered. JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected > > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456 > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:10:50 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    I agree John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456469#456469


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:17:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> wrote: > > Charlie > > Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: > > > https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. > (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) > > John > > > Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.) Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, exiting the plane? Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can work out the paradox. Charlie


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:31:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> > wrote: > >> >> Charlie >> >> Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: >> >> >> https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. >> (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) >> >> John >> >> >> Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had > to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.) > > Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal > use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 > sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what > happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, > exiting the plane? > > Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can > work out the paradox. > > Charlie > > Should have added (or maybe led with), My kit didn't come with any universal head 3/32 rivets. Maybe the engineer decided that 1/8 round heads (already in the kit) would be fine and avoid the need to dimple the top piece & countersink the Z channels.




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