Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:40 AM - Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
2. 08:06 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England)
3. 08:18 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (bigdog@bentwing.com)
4. 10:35 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
5. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Dick Seiders)
6. 12:25 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Hal Benjamin)
7. 12:50 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
8. 01:14 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Harry)
9. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Jerry Springer)
10. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (vanremog@aol.com)
11. 03:10 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON)
12. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England)
13. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England)
Message 1
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Subject: | Fuselage #30 rivets |
Hi Guys
There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals,
does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
On 5/22/2016 5:39 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>
> Hi Guys
>
> There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals,
does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed
>
> Regards
>
> John
I'm building a -7 (same fuselage), & can't figure out which area you're
talking about. Having said that, I'm not an aero engineer, so I try not
to second guess the designer (who, hopefully, is) if the area is
structural. Perhaps the cover you're talking about is required to
complete an area that's structurally significant.
Charlie
Message 3
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Subject: | Fuselage #30 rivets |
The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything
he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they
use -4's it's for a reason.
Greg Young
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:40 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets
Hi Guys
There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals,
does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
Charlie
Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:
https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg.
(Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner)
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
Read Greg young's answer again.
Dick seiders
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 22, 2016, at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> Charlie
>
> Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:
>
> https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg.
(Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner)
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
Greg is right on. Besides, if you build it per Van's instructions that is one thing
less to worry about as you're about to advance the throttle on your first
flight!
Hal Benjamin
RV-4 Flying
Long Island, NY
218 Hours
Sent from my iPad
> On May 22, 2016, at 11:17 AM, "bigdog@bentwing.com" <bigdog@bentwing.com> wrote:
>
>
> The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything
he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when
they use -4's it's for a reason.
>
> Greg Young
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON
> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:40 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets
>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals,
does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof)
- but I stand corrected
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
Van is not known for an excessive use of anything. If the plans call for it, do
it!
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 1365 hours.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:39:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets
Hi Guys
There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals,
does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE
over engineered.
JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>
> Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof)
- but I stand corrected
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
Van's designs are "well engineered". Some things like the original spar were over
engineered. Other areas were maybe a little light and prone to cracking but
they have been corrected as the designs matured.
After all of the things we have put Van's planes thru over the years I think it
is safe to say that they have stood the test of time, so I would recommend building
per plans. Small downside, large upside.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@frontier.com>
Sent: Sun, May 22, 2016 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets
I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE
over engineered.
JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>
> Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof)
- but I stand corrected
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
I agree
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456469#456469
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
wrote:
>
> Charlie
>
> Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:
>
>
> https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg.
> (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner)
>
> John
>
>
> Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had
to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.)
Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal
use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030
sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what
happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off,
exiting the plane?
Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can work
out the paradox.
Charlie
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage #30 rivets |
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:
>>
>>
>> https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg.
>> (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner)
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had
> to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.)
>
> Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal
> use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030
> sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what
> happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off,
> exiting the plane?
>
> Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can
> work out the paradox.
>
> Charlie
>
> Should have added (or maybe led with), My kit didn't come with any
universal head 3/32 rivets. Maybe the engineer decided that 1/8 round heads
(already in the kit) would be fine and avoid the need to dimple the top
piece & countersink the Z channels.
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