---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/22/16: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:40 AM - Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON) 2. 08:06 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England) 3. 08:18 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (bigdog@bentwing.com) 4. 10:35 AM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON) 5. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Dick Seiders) 6. 12:25 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Hal Benjamin) 7. 12:50 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON) 8. 01:14 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Harry) 9. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Jerry Springer) 10. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (vanremog@aol.com) 11. 03:10 PM - Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (JOHN TIPTON) 12. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England) 13. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:40 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets From: "JOHN TIPTON" Hi Guys There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed Regards John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets From: Charlie England On 5/22/2016 5:39 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > Hi Guys > > There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed > > Regards > > John I'm building a -7 (same fuselage), & can't figure out which area you're talking about. Having said that, I'm not an aero engineer, so I try not to second guess the designer (who, hopefully, is) if the area is structural. Perhaps the cover you're talking about is required to complete an area that's structurally significant. Charlie ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:26 AM PST US From: "bigdog@bentwing.com" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason. Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:40 AM Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets Hi Guys There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed Regards John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:47 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets From: "JOHN TIPTON" Charlie Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:21 AM PST US From: Dick Seiders Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets Read Greg young's answer again. Dick seiders Sent from my iPhone > On May 22, 2016, at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > > Charlie > > Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: > > https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) > > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets From: Hal Benjamin Greg is right on. Besides, if you build it per Van's instructions that is one thing less to worry about as you're about to advance the throttle on your first flight! Hal Benjamin RV-4 Flying Long Island, NY 218 Hours Sent from my iPad > On May 22, 2016, at 11:17 AM, "bigdog@bentwing.com" wrote: > > > The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason. > > Greg Young > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:40 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets > > > Hi Guys > > There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed > > Regards > > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:13 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets From: "JOHN TIPTON" Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:08 PM PST US From: Harry Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets Van is not known for an excessive use of anything. If the plans call for it, do it! Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 1365 hours. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN TIPTON" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:39:39 AM Subject: RV-List: Fuselage #30 rivets Hi Guys There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed Regards John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets From: Jerry Springer I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE over engineered. JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected > > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:25 PM PST US From: vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets Van's designs are "well engineered". Some things like the original spar were over engineered. Other areas were maybe a little light and prone to cracking but they have been corrected as the designs matured. After all of the things we have put Van's planes thru over the years I think it is safe to say that they have stood the test of time, so I would recommend building per plans. Small downside, large upside. -GV -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Springer Sent: Sun, May 22, 2016 1:17 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE over engineered. JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected > > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:50 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets From: "JOHN TIPTON" I agree John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456469#456469 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets From: Charlie England On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON wrote: > > Charlie > > Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: > > > https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. > (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) > > John > > > Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.) Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, exiting the plane? Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can work out the paradox. Charlie ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets From: Charlie England On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > > On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON > wrote: > >> >> Charlie >> >> Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: >> >> >> https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. >> (Full acknowledgement to the copyright owner) >> >> John >> >> >> Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had > to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.) > > Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal > use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 > sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what > happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, > exiting the plane? > > Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can > work out the paradox. > > Charlie > > Should have added (or maybe led with), My kit didn't come with any universal head 3/32 rivets. Maybe the engineer decided that 1/8 round heads (already in the kit) would be fine and avoid the need to dimple the top piece & countersink the Z channels. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.