Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:17 AM - PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (JOHN TIPTON)
2. 05:20 AM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Linn Walters)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Kelly McMullen)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Linn Walters)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Warren Brecheisen)
6. 08:04 AM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (vanremog@aol.com)
7. 08:25 AM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Linn Walters)
8. 08:51 AM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (vanremog@aol.com)
9. 12:12 PM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (rampil)
10. 01:21 PM - Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Kelly McMullen)
11. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Linn Walters)
12. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Charlie England)
13. 02:57 PM - Re: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (bigdog@bentwing.com)
14. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Linn Walters)
15. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
Hi a Guys
Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
Looks similar to Aeroquip 666 hose from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq666.php?clickkey=46065
JIC fittings for the teflon hose can be found at most any good hydraulic
outlet.
I would guess that if the dimensions correlate (I don't do 'mm' very
well) it would be great for fuel.
Linn
On 8/8/2016 6:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>
> Hi a Guys
>
> Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
>
> http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
I agree that the hose should be okay, however, all such hose in the US
has to have the fittings professionally installed. The teflon is most
commonly used as core for integral fire sleeve tubing such as Aeroquip
466 or Parker 124J.
I assume different tooling and fittings than your common Aeroquip 303.
On 8/8/2016 5:19 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Looks similar to Aeroquip 666 hose from Aircraft Spruce.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq666.php?clickkey=46065
> JIC fittings for the teflon hose can be found at most any good hydraulic
> outlet.
> I would guess that if the dimensions correlate (I don't do 'mm' very
> well) it would be great for fuel.
>
> Linn
>
> On 8/8/2016 6:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>>
>> Hi a Guys
>>
>> Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
>>
>> http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
Kelly is correct. The aeroquip 491-X fittings for the aeroquip 303
hose are not compatible with the aeroquip 666 braided stainless teflon
hose. The F-66000-X for the 666 hose has a 'flare' on the hose side.
All the fittings like this that I've seen are steel .... which is what
you want under the cowl ...... haven't seen any aluminum ones yet.
The F-66000-X fittings go together with two wrenches and do not require
a mandrel like the 303 hose fittings or being crimped.
I wasn't aware of the requirement that the fittings be 'professionally
installed'. I'd like Kelly to expand on that ...... what's that phrase
mean??
Linn
On 8/8/2016 9:17 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I agree that the hose should be okay, however, all such hose in the US
> has to have the fittings professionally installed. The teflon is most
> commonly used as core for integral fire sleeve tubing such as Aeroquip
> 466 or Parker 124J.
> I assume different tooling and fittings than your common Aeroquip 303.
>
> On 8/8/2016 5:19 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> Looks similar to Aeroquip 666 hose from Aircraft Spruce.
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq666.php?clickkey=46065
>> JIC fittings for the teflon hose can be found at most any good hydraulic
>> outlet.
>> I would guess that if the dimensions correlate (I don't do 'mm' very
>> well) it would be great for fuel.
>>
>> Linn
>>
>> On 8/8/2016 6:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi a Guys
>>>
>>> Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
>>>
>>> http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
I've been using this type of hose on my RV-6 for almost 9 years with no
problems. I did change the hose several years ago, but only because I had
to remove the engine so it was a convenient time to replace all the hoses.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN TIPTON
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 5:17 AM
Subject: RV-List: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
Hi a Guys
Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
Yes. but there is a concern. Extruded PTFE can split over time due to pressure
variations (pulsing from reciprocating pumps) as the hose ages. There are better
choices in elastomeric hose.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 3:18 am
Subject: RV-List: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
Hi a Guys
Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
Hmmm .... the description on ACS says "Construction of Aeroquip 666 hose
is of spiral extruded Teflon resin" which may be different for hose
just "straight extruded" ..... YMMV
Linn
On 8/8/2016 11:04 AM, vanremog@aol.com wrote:
> Yes. but there is a concern. Extruded PTFE can split over time due to
> pressure variations (pulsing from reciprocating pumps) as the hose
> ages. There are better choices in elastomeric hose.
> -GV
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
> To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 3:18 am
> Subject: RV-List: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
>
> <mailto:jmtipton@btopenworld.com>>
>
> Hi a Guys
>
> Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
>
> http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
I should correct my info. Apparently this early problem has since been corrected
in all PTFE hose sold for fuel use.
Sorry for the misstep. I didn't mean to muddy the water.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: vanremog <vanremog@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 8:04 am
Subject: Re: RV-List: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
Yes. but there is a concern. Extruded PTFE can split over time due to pressure
variations (pulsing from reciprocating pumps) as the hose ages. There are better
choices in elastomeric hose.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 3:18 am
Subject: RV-List: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
Hi a Guys
Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
Regards
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to prevent static
discharge
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459335#459335
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
I don't know if you can buy the necessary fittings and hose for
experimental aircraft. I know that no hose shop will sell the Aeroquip
466 or Parker 124J as raw hose. You have to buy pre-made on the integral
firesleeve version. It may have to with the molded firesleeve on the
outside, and not the fittings. Aeroquip 666 may be different, so I may
have mis-stated the requirement.
On 8/8/2016 6:42 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
> Kelly is correct. The aeroquip 491-X fittings for the aeroquip 303
> hose are not compatible with the aeroquip 666 braided stainless teflon
> hose. The F-66000-X for the 666 hose has a 'flare' on the hose side.
>
> All the fittings like this that I've seen are steel .... which is what
> you want under the cowl ...... haven't seen any aluminum ones yet.
> The F-66000-X fittings go together with two wrenches and do not require
> a mandrel like the 303 hose fittings or being crimped.
> I wasn't aware of the requirement that the fittings be 'professionally
> installed'. I'd like Kelly to expand on that ...... what's that phrase
> mean??
> Linn
>
> On 8/8/2016 9:17 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> I agree that the hose should be okay, however, all such hose in the US
>> has to have the fittings professionally installed. The teflon is most
>> commonly used as core for integral fire sleeve tubing such as Aeroquip
>> 466 or Parker 124J.
>> I assume different tooling and fittings than your common Aeroquip 303.
>>
>> On 8/8/2016 5:19 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks similar to Aeroquip 666 hose from Aircraft Spruce.
>>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq666.php?clickkey=46065
>>> JIC fittings for the teflon hose can be found at most any good hydraulic
>>> outlet.
>>> I would guess that if the dimensions correlate (I don't do 'mm' very
>>> well) it would be great for fuel.
>>>
>>> Linn
>>>
>>> On 8/8/2016 6:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi a Guys
>>>>
>>>> Is a PTFE lined SS tubing OK for aviation fuel
>>>>
>>>> http://www.exact-eng.co.uk/catalogue/300_series_smoothbore_ptfe_hose.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459312#459312
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
OK, I'll bite. Why? The fuel in the hose is too rich to ignite even if
it gets lots of air in it, and the steel ends are connected by the
stainless steel braid.
I agree that having the conductive strip would further lessen the
possibility of static discharge but don't see it as an absolute
necessity. But then, if we were anal about removing all possible risk
..... we probably wouldn't fly an experimental airplane ..... IMHO of
course.
Linn
On 8/8/2016 3:11 PM, rampil wrote:
>
> The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to prevent
static discharge
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459335#459335
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
Without some form of conductive material in the liner, the fuel moving
through the line can generate a large static potential. It's not an
issue inside the hose, it's the 'potential potential difference' the
beginning and end points that pose a risk. The conductive liner
'prevents static discharge' by bleeding off any charge as it develops
(or prevents its development). Really no different from the requirement
that you ground the a/c before fueling; it keeps both ends at the same
electrical potential so there can be no spark from charge equalization.
On 8/8/2016 3:38 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> OK, I'll bite. Why? The fuel in the hose is too rich to ignite even
> if it gets lots of air in it, and the steel ends are connected by the
> stainless steel braid.
> I agree that having the conductive strip would further lessen the
> possibility of static discharge but don't see it as an absolute
> necessity. But then, if we were anal about removing all possible risk
> ..... we probably wouldn't fly an experimental airplane ..... IMHO of
> course.
> Linn
>
> On 8/8/2016 3:11 PM, rampil wrote:
>>
>> The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to
>> prevent static discharge
>>
>> --------
>> Ira N224XS
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
I get that but why does it have to be in the liner To restate Linn's point - Doesn't
the SS braid connected to the metal fittings on both ends equalize the potential?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
Without some form of conductive material in the liner, the fuel moving through
the line can generate a large static potential. It's not an issue inside the hose,
it's the 'potential potential difference' the beginning and end points that
pose a risk. The conductive liner 'prevents static discharge' by bleeding off
any charge as it develops (or prevents its development). Really no different
from the requirement that you ground the a/c before fueling; it keeps both ends
at the same electrical potential so there can be no spark from charge equalization.
On 8/8/2016 3:38 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> OK, I'll bite. Why? The fuel in the hose is too rich to ignite even
> if it gets lots of air in it, and the steel ends are connected by the
> stainless steel braid.
> I agree that having the conductive strip would further lessen the
> possibility of static discharge but don't see it as an absolute
> necessity. But then, if we were anal about removing all possible risk
> ..... we probably wouldn't fly an experimental airplane ..... IMHO of
> course.
> Linn
>
> On 8/8/2016 3:11 PM, rampil wrote:
>>
>> The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to
>> prevent static discharge
>>
>> --------
>> Ira N224XS
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
I got this answer in an offline email ...... thought it should be shared
......
The issue with non conductive Teflon hose is that over time it will leak. The
fluid flowing through it creates static discharge which over time will create
pinhole leaks and cause the hose to seep.
Linn
On 8/8/2016 5:56 PM, bigdog@bentwing.com wrote:
>
> I get that but why does it have to be in the liner To restate Linn's point -
Doesn't the SS braid connected to the metal fittings on both ends equalize the
potential?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 4:33 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
>
>
> Without some form of conductive material in the liner, the fuel moving through
the line can generate a large static potential. It's not an issue inside the
hose, it's the 'potential potential difference' the beginning and end points
that pose a risk. The conductive liner 'prevents static discharge' by bleeding
off any charge as it develops (or prevents its development). Really no different
from the requirement that you ground the a/c before fueling; it keeps both
ends at the same electrical potential so there can be no spark from charge equalization.
>
> On 8/8/2016 3:38 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> OK, I'll bite. Why? The fuel in the hose is too rich to ignite even
>> if it gets lots of air in it, and the steel ends are connected by the
>> stainless steel braid.
>> I agree that having the conductive strip would further lessen the
>> possibility of static discharge but don't see it as an absolute
>> necessity. But then, if we were anal about removing all possible risk
>> ..... we probably wouldn't fly an experimental airplane ..... IMHO of
>> course.
>> Linn
>>
>> On 8/8/2016 3:11 PM, rampil wrote:
>>>
>>> The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to
>>> prevent static discharge
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Ira N224XS
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel |
If we ignore the possibility that the stainless braid connection could
fail, there's still the fact that the fuel itself will take on a charge
as it flows through the line (if the line isn't conductive). I did a
quick google search trying to find an easy technical description, &
stumbled onto another reason for the conductive liner (that I've read
about, but had forgotten).
http://ionixgastechnologies.com/Static%20Control%20in%20PE%20Fuel%20Gas%20Pipe.pdf
The link is about 'natural' gas; not liquid fuel, but the same principle
applies. Static buildup in the fuel can actually discharge *through* the
non-conductive liner into the grounded braid, burning pinholes in the
liner. Here's a link to a mfgr's page on the type of line we're discussing:
http://racetronix.com/press-release/551/
I'll bet you can't even find a fuel-rated PTFE lined hose these days
that doesn't have a conductive material added.
Charlie
On 8/8/2016 4:56 PM, bigdog@bentwing.com wrote:
>
> I get that but why does it have to be in the liner To restate Linn's point -
Doesn't the SS braid connected to the metal fittings on both ends equalize the
potential?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 4:33 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: PTFE tubing for aviation fuel
>
>
> Without some form of conductive material in the liner, the fuel moving through
the line can generate a large static potential. It's not an issue inside the
hose, it's the 'potential potential difference' the beginning and end points
that pose a risk. The conductive liner 'prevents static discharge' by bleeding
off any charge as it develops (or prevents its development). Really no different
from the requirement that you ground the a/c before fueling; it keeps both
ends at the same electrical potential so there can be no spark from charge equalization.
>
> On 8/8/2016 3:38 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> OK, I'll bite. Why? The fuel in the hose is too rich to ignite even
>> if it gets lots of air in it, and the steel ends are connected by the
>> stainless steel braid.
>> I agree that having the conductive strip would further lessen the
>> possibility of static discharge but don't see it as an absolute
>> necessity. But then, if we were anal about removing all possible risk
>> ..... we probably wouldn't fly an experimental airplane ..... IMHO of
>> course.
>> Linn
>>
>> On 8/8/2016 3:11 PM, rampil wrote:
>>>
>>> The PTFE you choose should also have an internal conductive strip to
>>> prevent static discharge
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Ira N224XS
>
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