Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:24 AM - (Gary Specketer)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Kit 40006 Flying (linn walters)
3. 07:10 AM - Re: Wing tank hole closures (Rick)
4. 07:21 AM - Re: Wing tank hole closures (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
5. 08:03 AM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 03/20/05 (Jay Brinkmeyer)
6. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: RV10-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 03/20/05 (Rick)
7. 08:36 AM - Re: One Ping for Effect (Rick)
8. 09:56 AM - Tech Counselor in FtWorth area? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 11:23 AM - Dynon EFIS/EMS (Jesse Saint)
10. 11:58 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS/EMS (Stein Bruch)
11. 12:39 PM - Re: soundproofing (Scott Schmidt)
12. 01:39 PM - Introduction - First Time Builder (James Hein)
13. 02:48 PM - Re: Introduction - First Time Builder (Tim Olson)
14. 03:16 PM - Re: Introduction - First Time Builder (Rick)
15. 03:45 PM - Re: [RV10] Building insurance? (Tim Olson)
16. 04:32 PM - Testing (Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr))
17. 04:33 PM - Re: Introduction - First Time Builder (JOHN STARN)
18. 05:05 PM - Re: Introduction - First Time Builder (Mani Ravee)
19. 05:11 PM - Re: Testing (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
20. 05:11 PM - Re: Testing (Tim Olson)
21. 05:25 PM - Priming the outside.... (Mani Ravee)
22. 05:31 PM - Re: Introduction - First Time Builder (Dj Merrill)
23. 05:34 PM - Tim this is Aweeeesome! (Mani Ravee)
24. 05:41 PM - test post (Jay Brinkmeyer)
25. 05:43 PM - Re: Introduction - First Time Builder (Konrad L. Werner)
26. 05:49 PM - Re: Tim this is Aweeeesome! (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
27. 05:49 PM - Re: [RV10] Re: matronics (Tim Olson)
28. 06:01 PM - Re: Tim this is Aweeeesome! (Dj Merrill)
29. 06:14 PM - Re: Priming the outside.... (Tim Olson)
30. 06:30 PM - Re: Priming the outside.... (Sean Stephens)
31. 06:32 PM - Re: Priming the outside.... (Mani Ravee)
32. 06:59 PM - Re: Priming the outside.... (JOHN STARN)
33. 07:04 PM - Re: Priming the outside.... (Tim Olson)
34. 07:16 PM - Re: Priming the outside.... (Dj Merrill)
35. 07:19 PM - Im in! (Brian)
36. 07:28 PM - Re: Priming the outside.... (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
37. 07:30 PM - Re: Im in! (Dj Merrill)
38. 07:33 PM - Re: Im in! (Tim Olson)
39. 08:32 PM - Re: Introduction - First Time Builder (Jim Carlton)
40. 09:18 PM - List update on RV-10 Matronics (Tim Olson)
41. 10:26 PM - Weighing in on Mani's request on surface prep (John W. Cox)
Message 1
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DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kit 40006 Flying |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Soory List members ..... that was supposed to be an offline reply!!!
What I think of as a nice feature (reply goes right back to the list)
bites me in the rear again!!!
Linn
linn walters wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>
> Rick ..... You're already off on the wrong foot! it's MATRONICS ,
> not matroinics!!!
> Linn ..... working on getting Terry Coles project.
>
> Rick wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> As I read this I got the same butterflys that I had on the solo
>> flight...Wonderful to know Van's wasn't lucky twice over...Randy did
>> it!!!
>>
>> Rick S.
>> Learning Matroinics
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Wing tank hole closures |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Thanks Bob,
You see, I take care of Bob, not the other way around...I order enough stuff to
share...what's he do? Buys only enough rivets for himself. Unless I feel like
going shopping I'm gonna rivet them a'la Tim. Thanks !!
Rick
Message 4
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| Subject: | Wing tank hole closures |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Rick,
Sorry I missed you last week! Since I am finished with my tanks I carried my fuel
tank test kit along for you guys to use - make sure Bob shares!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wing tank hole closures
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Thanks Bob,
You see, I take care of Bob, not the other way around...I order enough stuff to
share...what's he do? Buys only enough rivets for himself. Unless I feel like
going shopping I'm gonna rivet them a'la Tim. Thanks !!
Rick
Message 5
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=b4BarAjpxszJ9bFpYhDbbAMlVtUjYRk9B8jjf0JdIrrXGDaZJ2qNebYeL/p8ODolbU7gOE134EtSBYtYwEkJUZgy8IXN8yNhO1lB6+AyPlS4zFWPr+S82c3nie0droRTdTF8BE89e8mVDLERicxal6RowctWPkWnF2HXik62L1E=
;
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 03/20/05 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
I used large 'Home Depot' pop rivets reinforced with a blop of proseal to seal
up my tank holes. Thanks to Terry Cole for the tip (you will be missed!)...
Jay
#11
Time: 07:07:52 PM PST US
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing tank hole closures
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
On those patches, I prosealed them and riveted them with 2 rivets...
one on each side. (I used 3/32" round head rivets)
I did have suggestions from other builders to do things
like: Use big pop-rivets to fill the holes (Very cool idea if you
have the large pop-rivets handy...rolling the rivet in proseal too)
then proseal over it all, or use bolts and then proseal over it.
I think anything like that would work. Proseal alone would be too
risky for me....especially after seeing the air pressure blow out
my proseal. Same with only bolts or rivets.
If I had the large pop-rivets, that's what I'd do for sure.
--
Tim #40170
__________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 03/20/05 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Thanks Jay!
The more I think about riveting the little patches the more I like the idea of
going to Home Depot and getting the pop rivets. I guess the mechanical fit and
the proseal will keep the leftover portion of stem from migrating into the danger
zone. 3 days and counting for hopeful release from the Doc to proceed with
riveting, Can't wait to get back to it.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
Las Vegas
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: One Ping for Effect |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Thanks John!
When I first saw that it was EXACTLY what I thought, Quicksdraw McGraw and El Kabong!!
No mention of Babalouie?(sp?) though? Babalouie was the REAL brains of
the pair, go figure, he was an Ass, I mean Burro. Since I'm part of the recent
migration I'll say hello to those who haven't seen me here before, I'm in Las
Vegas building the wings on kit #40185. The tanks are ready to rivet just waiting
for clearance from the Doc after hand surgery to get back at it. I'm 43,
retired USAF weapons guy, (please no muzzel f--ker jokes :) now doing loss control
and field underwriting chores (Insurance). PP SEL, 100 hours, rent aircraft
only for now. I'm one of three builders here in town and we have been helping
each other along the way.
Rick S.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Tech Counselor in FtWorth area? |
Can anyone recommend a EAA Tech Counselor in the South FtWorth area that
knows RV construction? I live about 30 minutes south of the I20 & 35W
interchange right off of 35W (Grandview) and I'm looking for a TC.
Thanks,
Michael Sausen
Message 9
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clamav-milter version 0.80j
on heru-ur
Does anybody know about the Dynon Avionics Sportpak EFIS and EMS? We are
considering that instead of some of the other options.
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 10
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d="scan'217,208"; a="700977044:sNHT26519904"
I know a fair bit, since we build the install harnesses for both of them.
Drop me a note off list and I can help you out with questions.
Cheers,
Stein.
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:22 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Dynon EFIS/EMS
Does anybody know about the Dynon Avionics Sportpak EFIS and EMS? We are
considering that instead of some of the other options.
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 11
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
I used some closed cell stuff out of the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
I have documented the stuff I used at my site. You can use the link
below to get to it.
Just look under the "Interiors" forum and there you will see a thread on
soundproofing.
http://freedomflyers.com/forums/
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: soundproofing
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey Chris,
I think that at least a couple other RV-10 builders are using a foil
faced, rubber backed insulation material that they buy from
Aircraft Spruce. You can get it in multiple different thicknesses.
I would think that something like that would work well. I'm planning
to do both that, and to add padded vinyl to my walls, and fabric
headliner to the ceiling.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Chris , Susie McGough wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough"
> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>
> Hi Guys just sold my RV6 VH-MUM.....ordering the 10 shortly!! We
> have a six month old (reason for selling MUM) and want to do lots of
> flying with him on board. Can anyone recomend what is good
insulation??
> I want it quiet.
>
> Regards Chris
>
> Downunder
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=
=
Message 12
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d="scan'208"; a="837435938:sNHT464456440"
| Subject: | Introduction - First Time Builder |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Hello all,
I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
hint.. ?).
Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
"Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
acre. Plenty of space).
Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
questions that I have right now for the group:
1. Tools:
What tools would you recommend?
What tools would you NOT recommend?
2. QB or Non-QB?
To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
3. Engines
My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off
their project?
Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks!
James Hein, N8VIM.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hi James,
Glad to see you found the list, and the proper one at that!
As far as tools go, most builders get either the Cleaveland or
Avery (occasionally other brands too), RV tool kits. That gives
you most of the basics. Beyond that there are many little things
that make things easier, or are required in one way or another.
Such as:
Die Grinder
Bench Grinder
Fast air compressor (prefer Cast iron cylinders, non-oil free)
Bandsaw
Tabletop Beltsander
Scotchbrite pad attachment for die grinder (cleaveland)
3/32" and 1/8" chucking reamer for nice holes
Cogsdill Deburring tool (some people love them)
Oops Rivets
NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.20
NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00
NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
12" long drill bits in #40, #30, #12 sizes
A spare 3/32" springback dimple-die set (yardstore.com)
Circle cutter
1/8" offset rivet set
Misc various rivet sets (try yardstore.com)
Parker 37 degree rolo-flair flaring tool
DEFINITELY get the no-hole thin/nose 4" squeezer yoke.
DEFINITELY get the pneumatic squeezer (I can't see being without it)
I bought mine with the longeron yoke. Also get the adjustable set
holder for the squeezer.
Get the 59010 Hex Adapter for deburring from Avery...get 2 or more
Buy a couple of cordless rechargable screwdrivers.
Buy a round and flat jewlers file set.
You'll use about 700-750 total 3/32 clecos!!!
About 250 1/8 clecos
Buy extra drill bits, although the prepunched kits help them last
A couple of boxes of scotchbrite pads (Auto body shop)
various 180-600 grit tough automotive sandpaper
Buy 2 pair of cleco pliers so your helpers have some too.
Dremel tool with the fine sanding drum rolls.
Small chop saw (some people like these...or.
An air powered cutoff tool
Drill press (use either/or drill press or bench grinder for deburring)
Your other question is a hard one...tools NOT recommended???
I don't get it.....I didn't know there was a tool that could be
bought by a man that wasn't recommended. ;) But seriously,
there's not much you'll be told to get that you won't use
at one point or the other.
As for #2, QB or non-QB.... That's a really hard question.
I spent just over 250hrs getting my tailcone done, and
another 300 or so to get most of the wings done. The fuse
and final assembly and panel and everything is a HUGE job though.
People are guessing 1500-2000 hours to complete the kit. My
best advice is that if cost is a bigger factor than time,
go Slow build...the first 2 sections are fast anyway. If you
have a hard time finding time, get QB and get done.
#3. You could try alternative engines, but re-engineering for them
will cost extra too. In the end, just finding a lycoming core
and having some place rebuild it would probably save you the most
money. If you're confident in your rebuilding skills, maybe you'll
want to wait until ECI has their 540 kit out. At this point, since
you haven't bought yet, you definitely have the time to ponder the
engine thing for a while.
#4 I can't answer...you're not near me.
Again though, welcome to the list. I can easily see an EE/ME guy
being a software guy....when I started in EE, we had to learn
programming and CAD as part of the program. Fun stuff! (and,
another techie on the list)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
James Hein wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>
> Hello all,
> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
> listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
> myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
>
> My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
> for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
> Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
> live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
>
> Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
> build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
> RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
> RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
> hint.. ?).
>
> Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
> when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
> visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
>
> Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
> is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
> welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
> driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
> assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
> "Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
> possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
> acre. Plenty of space).
>
> Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
> questions that I have right now for the group:
> 1. Tools:
> What tools would you recommend?
> What tools would you NOT recommend?
> 2. QB or Non-QB?
> To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
> for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
> 3. Engines
> My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
> a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
> diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
> 4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off their
> project?
>
> Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
> James Hein, N8VIM.
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
James,
You really can't go wrong with Cleaveland or Avery's RV tool kits. I pieced my
tool collection and pretty much have the same as Cleveland offers and I'm sure
I paid more by doing that. You will use every tool in the kit and you will find
you need others as you go along. Additional Clecos for one thing, I have 600
3/32 (silver) size and have used them all plus borrowed an additional 100. One
thing I suggest is upgrading the squeezer from a hand squeezer to a pneumatic
one. That is my preference and others will have their comments as well. If
you don't plan on getting the air powered squeezer, DON'T try one out....you'll
end up getting one. A bench grinder, a drill press and a band saw all get good
use in my shop. I have a small bench belt/disc sander but it barely gets used.
Building times vary with your skills and ability to devote your time to the
project.
I averaged about 12 hours of "productive" time a week sometimes more, sometimes
less. By productive I mean your organized, know what your going to do, have read
the steps at least once and your not tired and most important, your heads
"in the game". My Emmpenage took me from Feb 2004 until Sept about 6 months. I
started the wings just before Thanksgiving 2004 and I should be finished by the
end of May. I had to take 7 weeks off from building or the wings would be done
by now.
I enjoy the building process so I didn't consider the QB route. If the extra cash
is not an issue and you want the fastest way to completion go QB, FWIW there
have been some delays on shipping, not Van's fault. I think you could almost
get your wings built in the lead times that the QB's are taking...I don't think
you would beat it on the Fuselage. Get out on the web and check out Tim Olson's
site along with Mike Howe and Dan Checkoway even the now inactive James McClow
site has some good info along with many family pictures if your feeling
lonely one night!! You can find links to these on Van's web page under WWW links.
It's a big family out here ready to help, get the workshop cleaned, order
the tools and emmpenage kit and jump in. You next step will be to ask what primer
to use on the airframe. This is the easiest question to answer of all so feel
free to post that question when the time comes. Engines have many options,
new, rebuilt from core, low time etc etc. By the time your ready to make that
decision you will have a lot more knowledge, just expect to safely budget anywhere
from 25k to 40k, if you find one cheaper than all the better. Once you get
your budget, might as well burn it, I gave up on mine the more I rationalized
each increase. Figure 100k to finish maybe a little more, little less but an
easy figure to remember. Nuff kidding, welcome aboard.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: [RV10] Building insurance? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
You probably already have this name, but you may want to try
JT Helms at Nationair
877-475-5860
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Messsage reposted to the Matronics List...hope to see
ya'll there! http://www.matronics.com/subscription/
DO NOT ARCHIVE
townsetm wrote:
>
>
>
> Would someone be so kind as to post their recommendations (and maybe
> contact info) for a good source of insurance to cover an RV-10 project
> under construction?
>
> Thanks,
>
> TDT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
> 'Thanks & Giving.'
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/1yWplB/TM
>
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)" <nikolaos.napoli@ngc.com>
I just moved over to this list.
Just testing the system.
Niko
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
James:
Most of that Rick is true. BUT ask the "primer" question only if you want to
find out big, varied, opinionated, vocal and world wide this RV family
really is. I'll assume your on the full RV list too. 8*) KABONG HRII
N561FS 250hrs & counting.
P.S. Add a Scotchbrite wheel, (we mounted ours on a 3/8" mandrel to fit the
drill press) it will save you lots of blood and pain. It do be maken da
parts looke reel purrdy 2. Coarse N561FS was afore "pre-punch", sew ewes
mileage may differ.
Do Not Archive
. It's a big family out here ready to help, get the workshop cleaned, order
the tools and emmpenage kit and jump in. You next step will be to ask what
primer to use on the airframe. This is the easiest question to answer of all
so feel free to post that question when the time comes.
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings
Message 18
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| Subject: | Introduction - First Time Builder |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Hey James, Welcome aboard. The first thing I would suggest is a class to
hone up on the skills necessary to embark on this wonderful and romantic
voyage. No really. I attended the RV class by Tom Emery, of WPARV builders.
Web site: http://www.wparvbuilders.nstemp.com/?source=rvproject.com
Tom is a well known and veteran builder, and an excellent teacher. Had A/V
class sessions and a one on one practice building through the weekend. I
highly recommend such a class because he has ALL the tools you can imagine,
lets you use each one of them and make your own list or rather narrow it
down to what you need and what you are comfortable using. Also the tips and
tricks in building/ sheet metal work are very valuable. I truly believe I
will build a almost perfect airplane because of attending that class. No I
have nothing to gain from the recommendation.
Regarding other things others have been very eloquent. All I can say is get
the kit. It is easy, really. All you have to have is patience and time to
put in the work. I for one am having such a blast
Mani Ravee, MD MC
Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
Maj. US Army Medical Corps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Hello all,
I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
hint.. ?).
Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
"Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
acre. Plenty of space).
Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
questions that I have right now for the group:
1. Tools:
What tools would you recommend?
What tools would you NOT recommend?
2. QB or Non-QB?
To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
3. Engines
My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off
their project?
Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks!
James Hein, N8VIM.
Message 19
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Welcome ! This my new home - having my email modified before posting was the absolute
last straw!
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Testing
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)" <nikolaos.napoli@ngc.com>
I just moved over to this list.
Just testing the system.
Niko
Message 20
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Awesome Niko, thanks for making the jump!
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr) wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)" <nikolaos.napoli@ngc.com>
>
> I just moved over to this list.
>
> Just testing the system.
>
> Niko
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Priming the outside.... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Hi gang, my first post in the Matronics list.
>
> In my original post, wanted to know what others are doing:
>
> 1. As you finish and close up each section, e.g., the VS or the Rudder,
> do you alodine and prime the outside before you put it away?
> 2. Do you need to alodine the outside also or just use a wash primer
> and topcoat it.
>
> The reasoning I have is, it seems like it will be easier to do them
> when they are still small sized. What have you guys done so far?
>
> Mani
Mani Ravee, MD MC
Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
Maj. US Army Medical Corps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hi James,
Glad to see you found the list, and the proper one at that!
As far as tools go, most builders get either the Cleaveland or
Avery (occasionally other brands too), RV tool kits. That gives
you most of the basics. Beyond that there are many little things
that make things easier, or are required in one way or another.
Such as:
Die Grinder
Bench Grinder
Fast air compressor (prefer Cast iron cylinders, non-oil free)
Bandsaw
Tabletop Beltsander
Scotchbrite pad attachment for die grinder (cleaveland)
3/32" and 1/8" chucking reamer for nice holes
Cogsdill Deburring tool (some people love them)
Oops Rivets
NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.20
NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00
NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
12" long drill bits in #40, #30, #12 sizes
A spare 3/32" springback dimple-die set (yardstore.com)
Circle cutter
1/8" offset rivet set
Misc various rivet sets (try yardstore.com)
Parker 37 degree rolo-flair flaring tool
DEFINITELY get the no-hole thin/nose 4" squeezer yoke.
DEFINITELY get the pneumatic squeezer (I can't see being without it)
I bought mine with the longeron yoke. Also get the adjustable set
holder for the squeezer.
Get the 59010 Hex Adapter for deburring from Avery...get 2 or more
Buy a couple of cordless rechargable screwdrivers.
Buy a round and flat jewlers file set.
You'll use about 700-750 total 3/32 clecos!!!
About 250 1/8 clecos
Buy extra drill bits, although the prepunched kits help them last
A couple of boxes of scotchbrite pads (Auto body shop)
various 180-600 grit tough automotive sandpaper
Buy 2 pair of cleco pliers so your helpers have some too.
Dremel tool with the fine sanding drum rolls.
Small chop saw (some people like these...or.
An air powered cutoff tool
Drill press (use either/or drill press or bench grinder for deburring)
Your other question is a hard one...tools NOT recommended???
I don't get it.....I didn't know there was a tool that could be
bought by a man that wasn't recommended. ;) But seriously,
there's not much you'll be told to get that you won't use
at one point or the other.
As for #2, QB or non-QB.... That's a really hard question.
I spent just over 250hrs getting my tailcone done, and
another 300 or so to get most of the wings done. The fuse
and final assembly and panel and everything is a HUGE job though.
People are guessing 1500-2000 hours to complete the kit. My
best advice is that if cost is a bigger factor than time,
go Slow build...the first 2 sections are fast anyway. If you
have a hard time finding time, get QB and get done.
#3. You could try alternative engines, but re-engineering for them
will cost extra too. In the end, just finding a lycoming core
and having some place rebuild it would probably save you the most
money. If you're confident in your rebuilding skills, maybe you'll
want to wait until ECI has their 540 kit out. At this point, since
you haven't bought yet, you definitely have the time to ponder the
engine thing for a while.
#4 I can't answer...you're not near me.
Again though, welcome to the list. I can easily see an EE/ME guy
being a software guy....when I started in EE, we had to learn
programming and CAD as part of the program. Fun stuff! (and,
another techie on the list)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
James Hein wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>
> Hello all,
> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
> listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
> myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
>
> My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
> for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
> Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
> live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
>
> Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
> build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
> RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
> RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
> hint.. ?).
>
> Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
> when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
> visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
>
> Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
> is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
> welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
> driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
> assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
> "Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
> possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
> acre. Plenty of space).
>
> Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
> questions that I have right now for the group:
> 1. Tools:
> What tools would you recommend?
> What tools would you NOT recommend?
> 2. QB or Non-QB?
> To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
> for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
> 3. Engines
> My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
> a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
> diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
> 4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off their
> project?
>
> Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
> James Hein, N8VIM.
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Rick wrote:
> You next step will be to ask what primer to use on the airframe. This is the
easiest question to answer of all so feel free to post that question when the
time comes.
Aw, c'mon, Rick, don't throw the new guy to
the dogs! *grin*
do not archive
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 23
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| Subject: | Tim this is Aweeeesome! |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Look at all this buzz. And I am testing how long it takes for posts to
appear ie. To get an email back. This is like on steroids. :)
Mani Ravee, MD MC
Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
Maj. US Army Medical Corps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Testing
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Awesome Niko, thanks for making the jump!
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr) wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)"
<nikolaos.napoli@ngc.com>
>
> I just moved over to this list.
>
> Just testing the system.
>
> Niko
>
Message 24
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|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=wMUPtfvfpZSxAZjZK2aAGVgAtC49xgSVAW82pG+z2xZaExzyHcUsX4/5B5c5F+ePJDk/CxgJjxs5KRUBXMQqJDIWQqMRZ8rGksWJw/+S4/zX7kwmekMy/KJs7dlau1dzViOrtyXMJdn+hBACaNuDAaZg2DRhoi5yYx/UEjhibx4=
;
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
I'll post here. Whatever... Personality battles are silly.
Jay Brinkmeyer
__________________________________
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
Dogs? What dogs?
You mean the wolf pack! And starving one's at that after a long and hard winter!
VERY DEFINITELY * DO NOT ARCHIVE * THIS EVER
Anybody: Quickly hit the delete button if you can't handle a little fun.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dj Merrill
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Rick wrote:
> You next step will be to ask what primer to use on the airframe. This is the
easiest question to answer of all so feel free to post that question when the
time comes.
Aw, c'mon, Rick, don't throw the new guy to
the dogs! *grin*
do not archive
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
List
Download,
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Tim this is Aweeeesome! |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Pretty responsive!
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RV10-List: Tim this is Aweeeesome!
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Look at all this buzz. And I am testing how long it takes for posts to
appear ie. To get an email back. This is like on steroids. :)
Mani Ravee, MD MC
Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
Maj. US Army Medical Corps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Testing
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Awesome Niko, thanks for making the jump!
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr) wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)"
<nikolaos.napoli@ngc.com>
>
> I just moved over to this list.
>
> Just testing the system.
>
> Niko
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: [RV10] Re: matronics |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hi Hans,
I don't think you'll have to worry about the matronics list
not getting any posts, and thus getting blank emails. It may
happen once in a blue moon, but now that there are a good number
of people who just jumped over there in the past couple days,
I think you'll see lots more traffic there. Digest or
standard version of email, there's usually going to be some
I'm sure.
As for your question though about the professional RV builder...
I would be suspicious of that kind of pricing. The folks who
build the QB's for Van's really are organized. The cost of
that QB labor is what, maybe $8/hr? Even a Pro is going to
have to do all the same steps as one of those phillipinos,
and most pros would want more than $8/hr. In the end, I'd
be guessing it would end up higher, not lower...unless the
pro was doing it just for fun.
Tim
---
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Messsage reposted to the Matronics List...hope to see you there!
http://www.matronics.com/subscription/
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Hans Conser wrote:
>
> The problem with the Matronics list is that they send you empty digests
> every day that there are no messages.
> I hate having to delete empty emails.
>
> I spoke to a professional RV builder the other day who said he may be
> able to beat quickbuild prices while building the pieces to a higher
> standard.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Tim this is Aweeeesome! |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Mani Ravee wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Look at all this buzz. And I am testing how long it takes for posts to
> appear ie. To get an email back. This is like on steroids. :)
It is cool - very cool! :-)
do not archive
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Priming the outside.... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mani,
Sorry that you never got a reply originally to this question.
The answer I believe for most builders is
1) No, after closing up each section, most are either just leaving
the plastic on, or taking it off, but not doing anything else.
If you leave the plastic on, you'll protect the metal from scratches,
which is really meaningless (even though that's what I'm doing), as
you're going to scuff it anyway before priming. If you remove the
plastic, you'll prevent corrosion under the plastic from moisture.
Other than that though, you can fully do all of the external stuff
later if you wish....or, you could prime AND paint them now. If
you don't do it all though, I'd do nothing.
2) I don't think alodine is all that popular overall. I haven't
started to paint the outside at all, but from what I've seen so
far, nobody has alodined the outer skin surface. Just priming and
painting. The paint itself should help seal it well.
I myself plan to get all the major assembly done, then prime and paint
each piece separately, but all within the same timeframe. If you
saw Randy's photos on my site recently, you'll see that's what
he did....and it looks great.
http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/Randy006/index.html
Tim
---
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mani Ravee wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hi gang, my first post in the Matronics list.
>
>>In my original post, wanted to know what others are doing:
>>
>>1. As you finish and close up each section, e.g., the VS or the Rudder,
>>do you alodine and prime the outside before you put it away?
>>2. Do you need to alodine the outside also or just use a wash primer
>>and topcoat it.
>>
>>The reasoning I have is, it seems like it will be easier to do them
>>when they are still small sized. What have you guys done so far?
>>
>>Mani
>
>
> Mani Ravee, MD MC
> Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
> Maj. US Army Medical Corps
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Priming the outside.... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Here is an extract of an email that Randy posted when I asked about his
painting process...
-Sean #40303 (have the flu, no worky plane few days)
*************
All products are PPG. PPG Concept paint. GMC pickup white.
Primer on the Canopy is K36 gray.
Primer on the Alum is DX1791.
3M flowable spot putty.
West systems epoxy products used on the canopy.
Wings were easy with about 3 hours of scotchbrite (gray).
Shoot with DX1791
Top Coat with Concept 3 coats on bottom
4 coats on top.
Fuse 40 - 60 hours of sanding on windshield and windows, around doors,
tailcone joint and fuse joint.
I had John over and Steve from Utah was in town and wanted to come by
and sand. My painter does Harley paint jobs for fun after he works all
day building Hot Rods.
Final finish is 320. 5 coats of K36 on the Canopy. 3 coats of paint on
the fuse 2 on the bottom. I have use 2 1/2 gal of paint on the tail,
wings, fuse. I need another gal. to finish the cowl and wheel pants.
Having a real Professional directing the paint process cut the time in
1/2 at least. The processes they use make a lot of since. You get the
best finish without sanding for the rest of you life.
I don't mind the glass work but it is very time consuming. It would
have taken me 3 to 4 weekends to do it by myself.
Use a full face respirator / fresh air supply.
******************************
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Mani,
>
> Sorry that you never got a reply originally to this question.
>
> The answer I believe for most builders is
>
> 1) No, after closing up each section, most are either just leaving
> the plastic on, or taking it off, but not doing anything else.
> If you leave the plastic on, you'll protect the metal from scratches,
> which is really meaningless (even though that's what I'm doing), as
> you're going to scuff it anyway before priming. If you remove the
> plastic, you'll prevent corrosion under the plastic from moisture.
> Other than that though, you can fully do all of the external stuff
> later if you wish....or, you could prime AND paint them now. If
> you don't do it all though, I'd do nothing.
>
> 2) I don't think alodine is all that popular overall. I haven't
> started to paint the outside at all, but from what I've seen so
> far, nobody has alodined the outer skin surface. Just priming and
> painting. The paint itself should help seal it well.
>
> I myself plan to get all the major assembly done, then prime and paint
> each piece separately, but all within the same timeframe. If you
> saw Randy's photos on my site recently, you'll see that's what
> he did....and it looks great.
> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/Randy006/index.html
>
> Tim
>
> ---
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Mani Ravee wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Hi gang, my first post in the Matronics list.
>>
>>> In my original post, wanted to know what others are doing:
>>>
>>> 1. As you finish and close up each section, e.g., the VS or the
>>> Rudder,
>>> do you alodine and prime the outside before you put it away?
>>> 2. Do you need to alodine the outside also or just use a wash primer
>>> and topcoat it.
>>>
>>> The reasoning I have is, it seems like it will be easier to do them
>>> when they are still small sized. What have you guys done so far?
>>>
>>> Mani
>>
>>
>>
>> Mani Ravee, MD MC
>> Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
>> Maj. US Army Medical Corps
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 31
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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|
| Subject: | Priming the outside.... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Thanks Tim, just finished a whole bunch of priming. Used Metal prep and
alodine, then AKZO. Pretty satisfied.
Will go to bed now.
How do you guys archive these posts. In the yahoo group was using Kent
Forsythe's li'l program and worked great. Educate me on this. Will the same
prog work? I am not a PC guru:)
Mani
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Priming the outside....
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mani,
Sorry that you never got a reply originally to this question.
The answer I believe for most builders is
1) No, after closing up each section, most are either just leaving
the plastic on, or taking it off, but not doing anything else.
If you leave the plastic on, you'll protect the metal from scratches,
which is really meaningless (even though that's what I'm doing), as
you're going to scuff it anyway before priming. If you remove the
plastic, you'll prevent corrosion under the plastic from moisture.
Other than that though, you can fully do all of the external stuff
later if you wish....or, you could prime AND paint them now. If
you don't do it all though, I'd do nothing.
2) I don't think alodine is all that popular overall. I haven't
started to paint the outside at all, but from what I've seen so
far, nobody has alodined the outer skin surface. Just priming and
painting. The paint itself should help seal it well.
I myself plan to get all the major assembly done, then prime and paint
each piece separately, but all within the same timeframe. If you
saw Randy's photos on my site recently, you'll see that's what
he did....and it looks great.
http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/Randy006/index.html
Tim
---
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mani Ravee wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hi gang, my first post in the Matronics list.
>
>>In my original post, wanted to know what others are doing:
>>
>>1. As you finish and close up each section, e.g., the VS or the Rudder,
>>do you alodine and prime the outside before you put it away?
>>2. Do you need to alodine the outside also or just use a wash primer
>>and topcoat it.
>>
>>The reasoning I have is, it seems like it will be easier to do them
>>when they are still small sized. What have you guys done so far?
>>
>>Mani
>
>
> Mani Ravee, MD MC
> Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
> Maj. US Army Medical Corps
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Priming the outside.... |
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAgDlpTNyS0GMUidYQOUCBcKAAAAQAAAA9OY3kSGFPkeGSPVf64CzsgEAAAAA@sbcglobal.net>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Very easy to add to the archives just DO NOT use the term: "Do not Archive"
in the message. Trim your posts to just enough infor to refresh our
memories. Ask anything, someone will have the answer or at least a bit of
humor. We do rag on each other, both on the list & in person. Tell us where
you live so we can either avoid you completely or drop by unannounced.
(humor or rag example). Welcome to the "We Are Family" list. 8*). KABONG
HRII N561FS (-10 in the future)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Priming the outside....
> Thanks Tim, just finished a whole bunch of priming. Used Metal prep and
> alodine, then AKZO. Pretty satisfied.
> How do you guys archive these posts. In the yahoo group was using Kent
> Forsythe's li'l program and worked great. Educate me on this. Will the
> same
> prog work? I am not a PC guru:)
> Mani
>
Message 33
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Priming the outside.... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hi again Mani,
With this forum, you don't have to worry about archiving your messages.
Everything will automatically get archived permanently unless you
add the words "do not archive" anywhere in the posting. From what I
understand, you can even purchase a CD containing all the previous
posts for any of the Matronics lists, if you really want all of the
archives for yourself. Or, you can follow the link at the bottom of
each post to a menu of links that you can use to dig through the
archives. You can even view the new posts if you don't have
access to email.
Kent's program was great, when we were stuck with Yahoo. The problem
was it still had issues with removing any web links, and some
text formatting. Now though, you should be able to search the archives
really easily. If you want them off-line, I'd contact Matt Dralle
the list owner and see how that process works. If you do that,
let us know how it all goes.
For now, just remember if it's a post you don't care to have
in the archives wasting space, just add those 3 words "Do not archive".
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mani Ravee wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Thanks Tim, just finished a whole bunch of priming. Used Metal prep and
> alodine, then AKZO. Pretty satisfied.
> Will go to bed now.
> How do you guys archive these posts. In the yahoo group was using Kent
> Forsythe's li'l program and worked great. Educate me on this. Will the same
> prog work? I am not a PC guru:)
>
> Mani
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:14 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Priming the outside....
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Mani,
>
> Sorry that you never got a reply originally to this question.
>
> The answer I believe for most builders is
>
> 1) No, after closing up each section, most are either just leaving
> the plastic on, or taking it off, but not doing anything else.
> If you leave the plastic on, you'll protect the metal from scratches,
> which is really meaningless (even though that's what I'm doing), as
> you're going to scuff it anyway before priming. If you remove the
> plastic, you'll prevent corrosion under the plastic from moisture.
> Other than that though, you can fully do all of the external stuff
> later if you wish....or, you could prime AND paint them now. If
> you don't do it all though, I'd do nothing.
>
> 2) I don't think alodine is all that popular overall. I haven't
> started to paint the outside at all, but from what I've seen so
> far, nobody has alodined the outer skin surface. Just priming and
> painting. The paint itself should help seal it well.
>
> I myself plan to get all the major assembly done, then prime and paint
> each piece separately, but all within the same timeframe. If you
> saw Randy's photos on my site recently, you'll see that's what
> he did....and it looks great.
> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/Randy006/index.html
>
> Tim
>
> ---
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Mani Ravee wrote:
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>Hi gang, my first post in the Matronics list.
>>
>>
>>>In my original post, wanted to know what others are doing:
>>>
>>>1. As you finish and close up each section, e.g., the VS or the Rudder,
>>>do you alodine and prime the outside before you put it away?
>>>2. Do you need to alodine the outside also or just use a wash primer
>>>and topcoat it.
>>>
>>>The reasoning I have is, it seems like it will be easier to do them
>>>when they are still small sized. What have you guys done so far?
>>>
>>>Mani
>>
>>
>>Mani Ravee, MD MC
>>Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
>>Maj. US Army Medical Corps
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Priming the outside.... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>> How do you guys archive these posts. In the yahoo group was using Kent
>> Forsythe's li'l program and worked great. Educate me on this. Will the
>> same
>> prog work? I am not a PC guru:)
>> Mani
Hi Mani,
This list is an "auto archive" - in other words, every
message automatically gets archived on the server.
If you want to post something and NOT have it a part
of the archives, include the words "do not archive"
in the post. By my including those words here, this
particular message will not get stored in the archives, for example.
fyi
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 35
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|
Made the switch from yahoo. Hello -10 friends!
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
40308 Working on tailcone
Message 36
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| Subject: | Priming the outside.... |
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Message 37
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Brian wrote:
>
Welcome! :-)
do not archive
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 38
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Awesome Brian,
Did you post anything, or just the subject line?
Glad you made it, either way!
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Brian wrote:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jim Carlton <jcarlton3@cox.net>
On Monday 21 March 2005 08:05 pm, Mani Ravee wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hey James, Welcome aboard. The first thing I would suggest is a class to
> hone up on the skills necessary to embark on this wonderful and romantic
> voyage. No really. I attended the RV class by Tom Emery, of WPARV builders.
> Web site: http://www.wparvbuilders.nstemp.com/?source=rvproject.com
> Tom is a well known and veteran builder, and an excellent teacher. Had A/V
> class sessions and a one on one practice building through the weekend. I
> highly recommend such a class because he has ALL the tools you can imagine,
> lets you use each one of them and make your own list or rather narrow it
> down to what you need and what you are comfortable using. Also the tips and
> tricks in building/ sheet metal work are very valuable. I truly believe I
> will build a almost perfect airplane because of attending that class. No I
> have nothing to gain from the recommendation.
> Regarding other things others have been very eloquent. All I can say is get
> the kit. It is easy, really. All you have to have is patience and time to
> put in the work. I for one am having such a blast
>
> Mani Ravee, MD MC
> Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
> Maj. US Army Medical Corps
I have to second Mani's quotes here. I just returned from Tom Emery's class
and I am amazed at the wealth of info I obtained. Tom is a class act and his
wife Nickie is fabulous. It's well worth the time and effort to get a head
start on your building project with one of Tom's clinics.
Jim Carlton
Message 40
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| Subject: | List update on RV-10 Matronics |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I just got an email from Matt with a bit of good info on this RV-10
list at Matronics.
There are 300 realtime and 236 digest members currently. While
that does total 536, there are currently 417 unique members to
this list. So, there is definitely a good, sustainable interest
in this forum. Thanks to everyone who has joined us in the
past day, despite all of the roadblocks.
There is also a change to the Photoshare area:
[http://www.matronics.com/photoshare]
I haven't seen it for myself yet, but Matt added a feature so there
is a table at the top of the photoshare that allows you to drill down
into a specific list, rather than having to look through the whole
list for a particular type. He's still got a few more tweaks to
do, as he's actively working to make this a more user-friendly forum.
It's definitely nice to have someone working actively to help make
the experience better...rather than having a system that is working
against it's users progress.
Thanks Matt, and welcome again to all you new users.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 41
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| Subject: | Weighing in on Mani's request on surface prep |
Since enough of you have jumped over here to Matronics, I will add my two
cents (Canadian or Australian as you determine). There are a few great
books you guys might add to your existing and growing library. These are AC
43-204 "Visual Inspection for Aircraft" (with cool color pictures of
corrosion) ISBN 0-16-050415-5; and Department of the Army, Field Manual
FM1-563 "Fundamentals and Procedures of Airframe Maintenance". You guys
probably already have your bible the AC 43.13-1A with Change 1 "Acceptable
methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair" by your
bedside or commode; then there is the AC 43-4A, "Corrosion Control for
Aircraft; and of course AC 43-12A "Preventative Maintenance". So I know I
am just preaching to the choir - Right?
There is value in learning about the definitions, cause and correction for
Filliform Corrosion, Uniform Etch Corrosion, and Hydrogen Embrittlement.
Now to Mani's question (he should be able to get the FM 1-563 pretty easy).
Proper surface preparation, cleanliness and correct application of
protective substrates is the key to long term protection of valuable flying
assets. I have seen quite a few kit built aircraft suffering from premature
primer separation due to improper surface prep and cleanliness. Pictures
will follow. Cessna had a big batch of aircraft back in the 70's and early
80's getting filiform corrosion more than 10 years after final painting.
Seems acid rain in the form of condensate on the aluminum was not properly
addressed as they left the aircraft in the elements overnight before final
paint scheduled for the next day shift. On a separate note, use of the
correct preparation technique, then the correct primer, then the correct
final coat using the correct technique can insure a dynamite gorgeous killer
finish job. Cutting a corner can accelerate substrate failure.
My dad said there were two reasons men wage war. Economic advantage or
Religious intolerance. He said to never get involved in the later.... Know
when the economics of the former have shifted against you or your adversary
and have an exit plan. So the following IS NOT MEANT TO DECLARE ANOTHER
DAMNED PRIMER WAR. As a former warrior I enjoy building and working on
recreational aircraft.
Anodizing has its place... you should know where.
Alodining has its place... you should know how, not fear it and use it
judiciously.
Correct primer for the correct final coat material is critical to long term
substrate survivability and cohesive or adhesive success.
Location of long term storage of aircraft has a compelling impact on
longevity. That leads to the conclusion that storing a prized possession in
a hangar is better than in the weather; storing it in a heated hangar is
better than unheated, keeping the moisture content down is better than wild
swings. Living in Arizona or New Mexico and keeping it in a hangar out of
the ultraviolet rays is better than the dank recesses of Washington, Oregon,
San Diego, Galveston, or Martha's Vineyard. If you live in AR or NM there
is no need to weigh in on this.
Now back to Mani.... Plastic protective sheathing was a protection against
deep scratches into and through the Alclad surface during shipment and
initial construction. The protective covering is porous and allows
corrosion to pass when you are located in damp climates. Kit aircraft are
sometimes built over long periods without final surface prep or final cover
coat. Alodine is a time consuming passion used by builders who care about
the longevity of their finished work. Cessna does not Alodine unless the
aircraft is designated an Amphibian. It costs more cause the labor and
material is more than doing nothing. Many aircraft outlive their intended
lives. However, as I posted yesterday Oregon now has 50% of the aircraft
accidents recorded in Experimental built A/C, the FAA says that is a good
thing cause Experimentals in Oregon are a larger and growing percentage of
the flying fleet total GA fleet. Now don't get me wrong no accident is a
good thing but in the next 10 years we as A & P's are about to see a quantum
shift in the quality of the Certified Aircraft Fleet. These are aircraft
that were not maintained by airlines logging tens of thousands of hours and
going through A, B, C and D checks. These GA are non alodined, are left in
the weather and aare marginally maintained over multiple decades as old
tired birds.
I commend individuals like Tim for his commitment to Alodine. I am glad
people like Randy use Acid Etching Primer to protect exposed surfaces. I
encourage builders to understand the potential risk in damp climates to
leave that plastic film on too darned long.
In closing, learn about "Faying, Fretting and the wicking action of ACF-50
to treat aircraft that were built before we knew better". But as Brian says
it best, Just Build It.
Welcome to everyone who moved over in the last 24 hours. Thanks Tim!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John W. Cox A&P 2824967
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<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Since enough of you have jumped over here to Matronics, I
will add my two cents (Canadian or Australian as you determine). There
are a few great books you guys might add to your existing and growing library.
These are AC 43-204 "Visual Inspection for Aircraft" (with cool
color pictures of corrosion) ISBN 0-16-050415-5; and Department of the
Army, Field Manual FM1-563 "Fundamentals and Procedures of Airframe
Maintenance". You guys probably already have your bible the AC
43.13-1A with Change 1 "Acceptable methods, Techniques, and Practices -
Aircraft Inspection and Repair" by your bedside or commode; then there is
the AC 43-4A, "Corrosion Control for Aircraft; and of course AC
43-12A "Preventative Maintenance". So I know I am just
preaching to the choir - Right?
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There is value in learning about the definitions, cause and
correction for Filliform Corrosion, Uniform Etch Corrosion, and Hydrogen
Embrittlement.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Now to Mani's question (he should be able to get the
FM 1-563 pretty easy). Proper surface preparation, cleanliness and
correct application of protective substrates is the key to long term protection
of valuable flying assets. I have seen quite a few kit built aircraft
suffering from premature primer separation due to improper surface prep and
cleanliness. Pictures will follow. Cessna had a big batch of
aircraft back in the 70's and early 80's getting filiform corrosion
more than 10 years after final painting. Seems acid rain in the form of
condensate on the aluminum was not properly addressed as they left the aircraft
in the elements overnight before final paint scheduled for the next day shift.
On a separate note, use of the correct preparation technique, then the correct
primer, then the correct final coat using the correct technique can insure a
dynamite gorgeous killer finish job. Cutting a corner can accelerate
substrate failure.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My dad said there were two reasons men wage war.
Economic advantage or Religious intolerance. He said to never get
involved in the later.... Know when the economics of the former have
shifted against you or your adversary and have an exit plan. So the
following IS NOT MEANT TO DECLARE ANOTHER DAMNED PRIMER WAR. As a former
warrior I enjoy building and working on recreational aircraft.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Anodizing has its place... you should know where.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Alodining has its place... you should know how, not fear
it and use it judiciously.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Correct primer for the correct final coat material is
critical to long term substrate survivability and cohesive or adhesive success.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Location of long term storage of aircraft has a compelling
impact on longevity. That leads to the conclusion that storing a prized
possession in a hangar is better than in the weather; storing it in a heated
hangar is better than unheated, keeping the moisture content down is better
than wild swings. Living in Arizona or New Mexico and keeping it in a
hangar out of the ultraviolet rays is better than the dank recesses of Washington,
Oregon, San Diego, Galveston, or Martha's Vineyard. If you live in
AR or NM there is no need to weigh in on this.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Now back to Mani.... Plastic protective sheathing was a
protection against deep scratches into and through the Alclad surface during
shipment and initial construction. The protective covering is porous and
allows corrosion to pass when you are located in damp climates. Kit
aircraft are sometimes built over long periods without final surface prep or
final cover coat. Alodine is a time consuming passion used by builders
who care about the longevity of their finished work. Cessna does not Alodine
unless the aircraft is designated an Amphibian. It costs more cause the
labor and material is more than doing nothing. Many aircraft outlive
their intended lives. However, as I posted yesterday Oregon now has 50%
of the aircraft accidents recorded in Experimental built A/C, the FAA says that
is a good thing cause Experimentals in Oregon are a larger and growing percentage
of the flying fleet total GA fleet. Now don't get me wrong no
accident is a good thing but in the next 10 years we as A P's are
about to see a quantum shift in the quality of the Certified Aircraft Fleet.
These are aircraft that were not maintained by airlines logging tens of
thousands of hours and going through A, B, C and D checks. These GA are
non alodined, are left in the weather and aare marginally maintained over
multiple decades as old tired birds.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I commend individuals like Tim for his commitment to Alodine.
I am glad people like Randy use Acid Etching Primer to protect exposed
surfaces. I encourage builders to understand the potential risk in damp
climates to leave that plastic film on too darned long.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In closing, learn about "Faying, Fretting and the
wicking action of ACF-50 to treat aircraft that were built before we knew
better". But as Brian says it best, Just Build It.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Welcome to everyone who moved over in the last 24 hours.
Thanks Tim!
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>DO NOT ARCHIVE
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>John W. Cox AP
2824967
<span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>
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