Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? ()
2. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: RV10-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/02/05 ()
3. 02:44 PM - Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? (Chris , Susie McGough)
4. 03:50 PM - Pneumatic cleco fastener (son hoang)
5. 04:03 PM - Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
6. 04:14 PM - Wing Lead Time (Jeff Carpenter)
7. 04:52 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Randy DeBauw)
8. 05:11 PM - Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? (bob.kaufmann)
9. 06:02 PM - Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? (Dj Merrill)
10. 06:18 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Scott Lewis)
11. 06:20 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Mark Grieve)
12. 06:42 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Dj Merrill)
13. 07:01 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Barry Chapman)
14. 07:28 PM - Re: Tool kits (was Pneumatic cleco fastener) (Scott Lewis)
15. 07:44 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Scott Lewis)
16. 07:44 PM - Re: Tool kits (was Pneumatic cleco fastener) (Dj Merrill)
17. 07:45 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Mark Grieve)
18. 07:46 PM - Re: Tool kits (was Pneumatic cleco fastener) (Tim Olson)
19. 08:03 PM - Origin of the cleco? (Mark Grieve)
20. 08:13 PM - tools (David McNeill)
21. 08:18 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Scott Lewis)
22. 08:35 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Dj Merrill)
23. 08:40 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (JOHN STARN)
24. 08:50 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (JOHN STARN)
25. 08:59 PM - Clecos (David & Miriam Talley)
26. 09:03 PM - Clecos (More) (David & Miriam Talley)
27. 09:07 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Mark Grieve)
28. 09:09 PM - Cleco History 1st find... (David & Miriam Talley)
29. 09:23 PM - Re: Cleco History 1st find... (John W. Cox)
30. 09:27 PM - Cleveland Tool (David & Miriam Talley)
31. 09:32 PM - Cleveland to INTOOL to Cooper (David & Miriam Talley)
32. 09:35 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (Scott Lewis)
33. 09:38 PM - Cooper search (David & Miriam Talley)
34. 10:21 PM - Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener (son hoang)
Message 1
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=wj/lm/Mn0gi2D0RgHRkqk1VCMxipaR8+bCgaQltOf7lDKOUDptmZNTa60pHtIZaO+Mhba0Aj25dLM5BFTbI/73WabCwIKCSdKllNpKjBa5lw3TuSr4XQA3x1rVOln62ATey5ck2twgTzkBVSUHAZv42QLWY7RPl/CJdDfFYfFn4=
;
| Subject: | Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
Just remember that everything you add increases
empty weight. I will have a four place intercom
and everyone will be wearing ANL headsets.
Robert
--- DejaVu <wvu@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu"
> <wvu@mail.ameritel.net>
>
> I thought about enclosing the inside of these
> vents just for looks but
> haven't done anything about it yet. The noise
> created by the vents is
> pro'ly no competition with the engine noise
> Anh
> #141.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:04 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent
> alternatives?
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White"
> <philwhite9@aol.com>
> >
> > Is anyone far enough along in fuselage
> building that you are considering
> > the vents that Van's provides for the rear
> seats? I look at the
> > design, and imagine that they would be very
> noisy when open, and likely
> > leak when closed (or at least allow more wind
> noise). I'm a quiet freak!
> > Wondering if it is worthwhile
> fabricating a ceiling tunnel to bring
> > air from the tailcone to eyeball outlets
> above. Don't know if there is
> > a high pressure area behind the baggage panel
> anywhere that one could
> > use for air inlet . A ceiling tunnel could
> also allow for reading lites
> > to be mounted above.
> > Am I just making too much work for
> myself considering these
> > options? Don't need more work, but want this
> to be the best traveling
> > plane I can build.
> >
> > Any suggestions or experience with the
> stock vent in a Van's tandem
> > plane?
> >
> > Phil White #40220 (fuse sides being riveted
> now) in Willowbrook, IL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> mail.ameritel.net]
> >
> >
>
> ---
> mail.ameritel.net]
>
>
>
>
>
> to browse
> Subscriptions page,
> Chat, FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 2
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=MNfwkqzpwKen/xvTbbu/Fs6upl/+HSoLbCp4TetjIZ2wI/z5vNbxWtSxBSdwGWsNWzD+a8KmDPB9VJW/JPmqUh1Lzn6vTbb5suc594OBQ9G4G+/iM4g+hA+r6QBQIgMBPMXsymddRcJWGU5HgxofLcC6BRWFnyr9LYVC1a+ox3w=
;
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV10-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/02/05 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
Dr. Stribling,
Well said. My mind has me at about 30 while my
body is about 50 while my chronological age is
61. I too am flying an RV4 just to maintain the
"RV grin". Both projects (flying & building) are
great fun although as I type this I am battling
the old flu. I feel rotten but it will pass.
Robert Vinroot
rpvinroot@alltel.net
--- James Stribling <jlstrib@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "James
> Stribling" <jlstrib@comcast.net>
>
> Well, just to let some of you know that you are
> not so old, I just turned 72
> and am now working on the
> the QB fuselage kit. I still fly my RV4 which
> I completed in 2000. As a
> retired physician, I truly believe that the
> body's
> chief function is for supporting the brain, and
> keeping it active by
> building airplanes is life sustaining, as well
> as a hell of a lot of fun. Another reason to be
> thankful to Van.
>
> J Stribling, MD
> 40140
> jlstrib@comcast.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of RV10-List
> Digest Server
> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:58 AM
> To: RV10-List Digest List
> Subject: RV10-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/02/05
>
>
> *
>
>
>
==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest
> Archive
>
>
==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV10-List Digest can also be
> found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file
> includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and
> features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes
> the plain ASCII version
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> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
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>
> RV10-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat
> 04/02/05: 9
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:09 AM - Official Usage Guideline
> [Please Read] [Monthly Posting]
> (Matt Dralle)
> 2. 01:57 AM - Re: Placed order for
> Empennage kit today. (Mani Ravee)
> 3. 04:22 AM - Re: Placed order for
> Empennage kit today. (Jesse Saint)
> 4. 07:08 AM - Re: Newbie (Condrey, Bob
> (US SSA))
> 5. 09:15 AM - Re: Newbie ()
> 6. 11:35 AM - Re: RV-10 Freight Charges
> (William Curtis)
> 7. 03:33 PM - Re: Newbie (bob.kaufmann)
> 8. 03:58 PM - Re: Countersinks (Noel &
> Yoshie Simmons)
> 9. 06:13 PM - Re: Countersinks
> (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:09:28 AM PST US
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Official Usage Guideline
> [Please Read] [Monthly Posting]
> DNA: do not archive
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
> <dralle@matronics.com>
>
> Dear Lister,
>
> Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines
> below. The complete
> RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines
> can be found at the
> following URL:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
>
****************************************************************************
> **
> RV10-List Usage Guidelines
>
****************************************************************************
> **
>
> The following details the official Usage
> Guidelines for the RV10-List.
> You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to
> abide by the rules therein.
> Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner
> described below may result
> in the removal of the subscribers from the
> List.
>
>
> RV10-List Policy Statement
>
> The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a
> forum of discussion for
> things related to this particular discussion
> group. The List's goals
> are to serve as an information resource to its
> members; to deliver
> high-quality content; to provide moral support;
> to foster camaraderie
> among its members; and to support safe
> operation. Reaching these goals
> requires the participation and cooperation of
> each and every member of
> the List. To this end, the following
> guidelines have been established:
>
>
> - Please keep all posts related to the List at
> some level. Do not submit
> posts concerning computer viruses, urban
> legends, random humor, long
> lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
>
> - THINK carefully before you write. Ask
> yourself if your post will be
> relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder
> about that, DON'T send it.
>
> - Remember that your post will be included for
> posterity in an archive
> that is growing in size at an extraordinary
> rate. Try to be concise and
> terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and
> lengthy posts and
> responses.
>
> - Keep your signature brief. Please include
> your name, email address,
> aircraft type/tail number, and geographic
> location. A short line
> about where you are in the building process
> is also nice. Avoid
> bulky signatures with character graphics;
> they consume unnecessary
> space in the archive.
>
> - DON'T post requests to the List for
> information when that info is
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>
=== message truncated ===
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Great idea but any ideas for a baby? Has anyone seen anything for toddlers?
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent alternatives?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
>
> Just remember that everything you add increases
> empty weight. I will have a four place intercom
> and everyone will be wearing ANL headsets.
> Robert
> --- DejaVu <wvu@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu"
>> <wvu@mail.ameritel.net>
>>
>> I thought about enclosing the inside of these
>> vents just for looks but
>> haven't done anything about it yet. The noise
>> created by the vents is
>> pro'ly no competition with the engine noise
>> Anh
>> #141.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:04 AM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent
>> alternatives?
>>
>>
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White"
>> <philwhite9@aol.com>
>> >
>> > Is anyone far enough along in fuselage
>> building that you are considering
>> > the vents that Van's provides for the rear
>> seats? I look at the
>> > design, and imagine that they would be very
>> noisy when open, and likely
>> > leak when closed (or at least allow more wind
>> noise). I'm a quiet freak!
>> > Wondering if it is worthwhile
>> fabricating a ceiling tunnel to bring
>> > air from the tailcone to eyeball outlets
>> above. Don't know if there is
>> > a high pressure area behind the baggage panel
>> anywhere that one could
>> > use for air inlet . A ceiling tunnel could
>> also allow for reading lites
>> > to be mounted above.
>> > Am I just making too much work for
>> myself considering these
>> > options? Don't need more work, but want this
>> to be the best traveling
>> > plane I can build.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions or experience with the
>> stock vent in a Van's tandem
>> > plane?
>> >
>> > Phil White #40220 (fuse sides being riveted
>> now) in Willowbrook, IL
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> mail.ameritel.net]
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---
>> mail.ameritel.net]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> to browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> Chat, FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Pneumatic cleco fastener |
Hi All
I am thinking of buying a pneumatic cleco tool
anybody has experience with one..good...bad...ugly ?
thanks
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rear passenger vent alternatives? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Adding babies will definitely increase your empty weight, as well. : )
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
McGough
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent alternatives?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Great idea but any ideas for a baby? Has anyone seen anything for toddlers?
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent alternatives?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
>
> Just remember that everything you add increases
> empty weight. I will have a four place intercom
> and everyone will be wearing ANL headsets.
> Robert
> --- DejaVu <wvu@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu"
>> <wvu@mail.ameritel.net>
>>
>> I thought about enclosing the inside of these
>> vents just for looks but
>> haven't done anything about it yet. The noise
>> created by the vents is
>> pro'ly no competition with the engine noise
>> Anh
>> #141.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:04 AM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent
>> alternatives?
>>
>>
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White"
>> <philwhite9@aol.com>
>> >
>> > Is anyone far enough along in fuselage
>> building that you are considering
>> > the vents that Van's provides for the rear
>> seats? I look at the
>> > design, and imagine that they would be very
>> noisy when open, and likely
>> > leak when closed (or at least allow more wind
>> noise). I'm a quiet freak!
>> > Wondering if it is worthwhile
>> fabricating a ceiling tunnel to bring
>> > air from the tailcone to eyeball outlets
>> above. Don't know if there is
>> > a high pressure area behind the baggage panel
>> anywhere that one could
>> > use for air inlet . A ceiling tunnel could
>> also allow for reading lites
>> > to be mounted above.
>> > Am I just making too much work for
>> myself considering these
>> > options? Don't need more work, but want this
>> to be the best traveling
>> > plane I can build.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions or experience with the
>> stock vent in a Van's tandem
>> > plane?
>> >
>> > Phil White #40220 (fuse sides being riveted
>> now) in Willowbrook, IL
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> mail.ameritel.net]
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---
>> mail.ameritel.net]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> to browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> Chat, FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
I spoke with Vans on Friday to confirm that they received my wing order
in time to beat the price increase (they did). I asked if they had a
lot of RV-10 wing orders the last couple of days of the month and the
comment was that they were "overwhelmed."
The question I should have asked, and didn't, is what impact all those
orders will have on the lead time for the wings? Has anyone thought to
ask that yet? If not, perhaps the next person who's waiting on wings
that talks to Vans can get the answer and let the rest of us know.
Jeff Carpenter
Altadena, California
# 40304
Final drilling elevators, 205 hours in.
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Pneumatic cleco fastener |
Best money you will spend. Sell it after completion if you don't need in anymore
and get most of your money back. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of son hoang
Subject: RV10-List: Pneumatic cleco fastener
Hi All
I am thinking of buying a pneumatic cleco tool
anybody has experience with one..good...bad...ugly ?
thanks
Message 8
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| Subject: | Rear passenger vent alternatives? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
I would think for toddlers, depending on the sex, a relief tube would be in
order, and of course you could hang some kind of airplane mobile from the
ceiling. Something with nice bright colors, and maybe airplanes flying.
Bob K
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent alternatives?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Adding babies will definitely increase your empty weight, as well. : )
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
McGough
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent alternatives?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough"
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Great idea but any ideas for a baby? Has anyone seen anything for toddlers?
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent alternatives?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <retiredpilot03-serv@yahoo.com>
>
> Just remember that everything you add increases
> empty weight. I will have a four place intercom
> and everyone will be wearing ANL headsets.
> Robert
> --- DejaVu <wvu@mail.ameritel.net> wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu"
>> <wvu@mail.ameritel.net>
>>
>> I thought about enclosing the inside of these
>> vents just for looks but
>> haven't done anything about it yet. The noise
>> created by the vents is
>> pro'ly no competition with the engine noise
>> Anh
>> #141.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:04 AM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Rear passenger vent
>> alternatives?
>>
>>
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White"
>> <philwhite9@aol.com>
>> >
>> > Is anyone far enough along in fuselage
>> building that you are considering
>> > the vents that Van's provides for the rear
>> seats? I look at the
>> > design, and imagine that they would be very
>> noisy when open, and likely
>> > leak when closed (or at least allow more wind
>> noise). I'm a quiet freak!
>> > Wondering if it is worthwhile
>> fabricating a ceiling tunnel to bring
>> > air from the tailcone to eyeball outlets
>> above. Don't know if there is
>> > a high pressure area behind the baggage panel
>> anywhere that one could
>> > use for air inlet . A ceiling tunnel could
>> also allow for reading lites
>> > to be mounted above.
>> > Am I just making too much work for
>> myself considering these
>> > options? Don't need more work, but want this
>> to be the best traveling
>> > plane I can build.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions or experience with the
>> stock vent in a Van's tandem
>> > plane?
>> >
>> > Phil White #40220 (fuse sides being riveted
>> now) in Willowbrook, IL
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> mail.ameritel.net]
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---
>> mail.ameritel.net]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> to browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> Chat, FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rear passenger vent alternatives? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Chris , Susie McGough wrote:
> Great idea but any ideas for a baby? Has anyone seen anything for toddlers?
I'll take a new Bose headset, please! *grin*
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
G'day,
son hoang wrote:
> Hi All
> I am thinking of buying a pneumatic cleco tool
> anybody has experience with one..good...bad...ugly ?
> thanks
I picked up the pistol grip style pneumatic cleco gun from The Yard
Store for $24.95. Love it.
It isn't all that useful for most jobs or for putting clecos in, the
hand pliers arebetter for that. It comes into it's own when you have
several hundred clecos to remove (eg disassembly of HS or tailcone). I
can get into a rhythm and remove about 80 clecos a minute, all without
the nasty hand cramping at the end!!
I have no experience with the more expensive ones, but I feel the pistol
grip would be better ergonomically than the other die-grinder style grips.
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
Good experience with this one!
http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=313&Category=88
This tool is wonderful. It is small, lightweight and cheap. Really
cheap! The hand cleco tool is OK for the one hole at a time stuff. This
tool shines when you need to remove 300 clecos for deburring or fill all
the holes for riveting. Other pneumatic cleco tools probably work well
too but many are too expensive to justify. This one is so cheap you
could buy two.
This tool, for example, is probably very nice but the price tag is a
deterrent. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/clecoinstall.php
Mark
son hoang wrote:
> Hi All
> I am thinking of buying a pneumatic cleco tool
> anybody has experience with one..good...bad...ugly ?
> thanks
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Mark Grieve wrote:
> Good experience with this one!
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=313&Category=88
>
Any feedback on their "home builders kit #14550" ?
http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=563&Category=106
Would I be better off buying individual pieces from various
sources?
I have nothing for tools yet, and am just starting my
obsession, er, collection. I'm hoping there are some specials
during Sun-n-Fun that I can order from home since I can't
make it this year...
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Barry Chapman" <bcrnfnps@swoi.net>
Hi all,
Along these lines, is there an advantage to using wedgelocks versus clecos?
Ebay has a lot of wedgelock guns for sale pretty inexpensive. TIA
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dj Merrill" <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pneumatic cleco fastener
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Mark Grieve wrote:
>> Good experience with this one!
>> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=313&Category=88
>>
>
> Any feedback on their "home builders kit #14550" ?
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=563&Category=106
>
> Would I be better off buying individual pieces from various
> sources?
>
> I have nothing for tools yet, and am just starting my
> obsession, er, collection. I'm hoping there are some specials
> during Sun-n-Fun that I can order from home since I can't
> make it this year...
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
>
> "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Tool kits (was Pneumatic cleco fastener) |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
G'day again,
Dj Merrill wrote:
> Any feedback on their "home builders kit #14550" ?
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=563&Category=106
> Would I be better off buying individual pieces from various
> sources?
I have no experience or knowledge of the quality of the tools in this kit.
At the end of the day, for someone jsut starting out the best idea is
usually to buy a full kit such as this. It works out cheaper and is
much less hassle than buying all the tools individually.
I bought my kit from Cleaveland Tools. Can't say good enough things
about the service and the quality of all the tools is excellent. Many
people order their kits from Avery and say the same things. Both these
companies are owned and run by fellow RVators.
Essentially, when buying tools you get what you pay for. Often paying a
little more now saves you pain and cost later on.
Also note that if you are building a -10 there are nowhere near enough
clecos supplied in the kits. I have 550 3/32" clecos and still wish for
more sometimes (Tailcone is BIG).
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
G'day,
Barry Chapman wrote:
> Along these lines, is there an advantage to using wedgelocks versus
> clecos? Ebay has a lot of wedgelock guns for sale pretty inexpensive. TIA
They are exactly the same, just different brand names. Cleco was the
original brand and has been adopted as the generic term, much like
Xerox-ing, despite the fact everyone makes copiers. The 'clecos' sold
by Cleaveland Tools are Wedge-Loc.
A note on Ebay, especially with regards to clecos. I have been looking
around recently and found that this stuff often sells for much higher
prices on Ebay than you could buy it for from one of the tool shops.
For example, there is a set of cleco pliers at $8.50 with a couple of
days to go. The exact same item at Cleaveland is $7. I have seen
clecos sell for about $1-1.50 each, despite being 70c each at the tool
shops.
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tool kits (was Pneumatic cleco fastener) |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Scott Lewis wrote:
> At the end of the day, for someone jsut starting out the best idea is
> usually to buy a full kit such as this. It works out cheaper and is
> much less hassle than buying all the tools individually.
Hi Scott,
This is pretty much the conclusion I've come to as well.
I've requested quotes from Cleveland and Avery, as well as a few
other places so I can do some comparison shopping. I'm hoping to
find a special Sun-n-Fun deal on a tool kit that will include most
of the basics I will need. Of course, every company includes
different pieces in their kit, and different brands (ie, quality),
so it is hard to make a fair comparison.
>
> I bought my kit from Cleaveland Tools. Can't say good enough things
> about the service and the quality of all the tools is excellent. Many
> people order their kits from Avery and say the same things. Both these
> companies are owned and run by fellow RVators.
I've heard good things about both of these.
Thanks! :-)
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Sorry, I can't advise you on this kit, perhaps someone else can. It has
many of the tools you will need. The Tatco squeezer is my second choice.
Nicely finished, works well and is a good tool but I like Avery's
squeezer better because the head can be interchanged with a C type
pneumatic squeezer and it has a longer reach. No matter what tool kit
you buy there will be something more that you will need right away. You
can download TheYard catalog and print it out yourself. Request hard
copy catalogs from Avery, Cleveland, Brown, Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and
anyone else you can think of. Be sure to look up my favorite,
http://www.airpartsinc.com.
Here are a few suggestions and tips.
You will be countersinking #30 and #40 holes so get an extra countersink
and have one for each size. That way you won' t have to adjust it every
time you switch cutters. That $15 will save you time and trouble.
airpartsinc.com has the lowest price I have seen at $10.50 on page 13.
There is a big difference in fluting pliers. Stay away from the Made in
China set with orange handles and a plastic inserts for the jaws. They
simply don't work. I used a wonderful set based on a small set of Vise
Grips. Check the usual number of airplane tool catalogs. Brown has them.
http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?productid=222
Get some copper colored model paint and mark the 1/8 inch countersink,
dimple dies and rivet sets. The 3/32 dimple dies are already color coded
silver but you may want to put some silver paint on the countersink. I
have built 3 RV tails and I can't think of one place where we set a 3/32
inch universal head rivet. You can probably put that rivet set in a
bottom drawer but put a silver stripe on it first.
Buy an automatic center punch.
http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=857 You
will be drilling out a lot of rivets and this tool gets the job started
more easily. One hand operation.
I could go on like this all night but I haven't had dinner.
Do you have the kit in hand or are you waiting for it to arrive?
Mark
Dj Merrill wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Mark Grieve wrote:
>
>> Good experience with this one!
>> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=313&Category=88
>>
>>
>
> Any feedback on their "home builders kit #14550" ?
> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=563&Category=106
>
>
> Would I be better off buying individual pieces from various
> sources?
>
> I have nothing for tools yet, and am just starting my
> obsession, er, collection. I'm hoping there are some specials
> during Sun-n-Fun that I can order from home since I can't
> make it this year...
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Tool kits (was Pneumatic cleco fastener) |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Regarding cleco count....
I have about 750 3/32" clecos, and from what I can gather after working
through the wings, that's about right.
Tim
Scott Lewis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
>
> G'day again,
>
> Dj Merrill wrote:
>
>> Any feedback on their "home builders kit #14550" ?
>> http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=563&Category=106
>> Would I be better off buying individual pieces from various
>> sources?
>
>
> I have no experience or knowledge of the quality of the tools in this kit.
>
> At the end of the day, for someone jsut starting out the best idea is
> usually to buy a full kit such as this. It works out cheaper and is
> much less hassle than buying all the tools individually.
>
> I bought my kit from Cleaveland Tools. Can't say good enough things
> about the service and the quality of all the tools is excellent. Many
> people order their kits from Avery and say the same things. Both these
> companies are owned and run by fellow RVators.
>
> Essentially, when buying tools you get what you pay for. Often paying a
> little more now saves you pain and cost later on.
>
> Also note that if you are building a -10 there are nowhere near enough
> clecos supplied in the kits. I have 550 3/32" clecos and still wish for
> more sometimes (Tailcone is BIG).
>
> Have fun,
> Scott Lewis
> RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
> Adelaide, South Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Origin of the cleco? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Scott Lewis wrote:
> Cleco was the original brand and has been adopted as the generic term,
> much like Xerox-ing, despite the fact everyone makes copiers.
Yes, there are many companies making "clecos" but who invented these
wonderful temporary skin fasteners? I haven't found much information.
Any manufacturing historians out there?
MG
Message 20
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
While you are getting tools you should consider a Cogsdill deburring tool in
at least 30 and 40 sizes. In your air drill these will make short work of
the hole cleaning and deburring of both sides of the hole in one pass.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Grieve" <mark@macomb.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Origin of the cleco?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
>
>
> Scott Lewis wrote:
>
>> Cleco was the original brand and has been adopted as the generic term,
>> much like Xerox-ing, despite the fact everyone makes copiers.
>
> Yes, there are many companies making "clecos" but who invented these
> wonderful temporary skin fasteners? I haven't found much information. Any
> manufacturing historians out there?
> MG
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
G'day,
Mark Grieve wrote:
> The Tatco squeezer is my second choice.
> Nicely finished, works well and is a good tool but I like Avery's
> squeezer better because the head can be interchanged with a C type
> pneumatic squeezer and it has a longer reach.
I have used all the squeezers, Tatco, Avery and Cleaveland. I suggest
any new builder also does this if they have the opportunity before they
buy their tools.
I bought the Cleaveland tool kit over the Avery on the basis on the
squeezer. I find it excellent; light weight, interchangable heads and
less force required than the others.
Avery is also good; interchangable heads, long handles to reduce the
force and easy to use.
Tatco I found, quite honestly, to be awful. The heads are small and
difficult to change and the force required to set a rivet will soon tire
most people.
All my own opinion. Others will have different thoughts.
> have built 3 RV tails and I can't think of one place where we set a 3/32
> inch universal head rivet. You can probably put that rivet set in a
> bottom drawer but put a silver stripe on it first.
Haven't built a -10 have you. They are there at the bottom of the
Vertical stabiliser.
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Mark Grieve wrote:
> I could go on like this all night but I haven't had dinner.
> Do you have the kit in hand or are you waiting for it to arrive?
> Mark
Hi Mark,
Neither - I am currently in the evaluation stage
to see which tool kit to buy. So any advice is appreciated! :-)
Thanks for the hints you gave above - I have some
homework to do... :-)
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
<4251E82F.10201@macomb.com> <4251ED01.1060400@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
<006801c53983$4aa0ac30$ef00000a@main> <4251FB81.4090605@tpg.com.au>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Check "The Yard" and get a catalog and on their mailing list. They run
specials on "used" tools & stuff. GREAT buys on some items but "used" items
vary as to stock on hand. KABONG
Do Not Archive
---- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Lewis" <rv10@tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pneumatic cleco fastener
> clecos sell for about $1-1.50 each, despite being 70c each at the tool
> shops.
>
> Have fun,
> Scott Lewis
> RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
> Adelaide, South Australia
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
<4251E82F.10201@macomb.com> <4251ED01.1060400@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
<006801c53983$4aa0ac30$ef00000a@main> <4251FB81.4090605@tpg.com.au>
<003a01c53991$20cd1700$39c90304@starnfamily>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Went on line after I sent the post below. The Yard Store, www.yardstore.com
has the two most used cleco sizes for .25 each "USED". Say Again, 10-9,
Huh, What ?, (sorry I didn't do that first) KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pneumatic cleco fastener
Message 25
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--> RV10-List message posted by: David & Miriam Talley <rv10@satx.rr.com>
Folks,
I ordered 1,000 3/32 clecos and then the number went down from there as the
sizes went up.
Aircraft Tool Supply had a special last December. NEW ones were somewhere
around .37 cents each. Chief and Aircraft Spruce were all in the 42-47
range or so.
I don't know the current price. Check out their website.
<http://www.aircraft-tool.com/>
Des Lynch and his crew are great.
Dave Talley
N2359 (N2FLY)
Message 26
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--> RV10-List message posted by: David & Miriam Talley <rv10@satx.rr.com>
ATS has them for 35 cents each (NEW!!!)
<http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/search_result.aspx?PageNo=2>
DCT
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Mark Grieve wrote:
I have built 3 RV tails and I can't think of one place where we set a
3/32 inch universal head rivet. You can probably put that rivet set in a
bottom drawer but put a silver stripe on it first.
Scott Lewis replied:
Haven't built a -10 have you. They are there at the bottom of the
Vertical stabilizer.
No Scott, no first hand experience with a 10 yet. I worked on 2 9s and a
7 plus some work on a 6 fuse. I hire out for food, beer, good company
and the chance that I might one day be allowed to fly the finished
plane. On the latest tail section I drove 500 miles to help the builder
set his first 3 dozen rivets. 19,964 to go is what I told him as I
headed for home.
As I recall from A&P school, the 3/32 universal head rivets are a real
pain to drive. Too easy to make eyebrows. Probably a lot better results
if you can squeeze them.
Mark
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Cleco History 1st find... |
Here's my first find:
http://www.companyreports.com/cnoc/GIXoct97.html
Here's an excerpt:
Well before the wall, 1899 to be exact, the company was founded as
Cleveland Pneumatic Tool Company in the city of the same name. In 1969 the
now legendary Dresser bought the Cleco Tool Division which grew up to
become Global's Industrial Tool Division (INTOOL) representing three
segments of its own:
Industrial Tool Division-Cleco=AE (established 1894, maker of portable air
tools), Roto Tool=AE (established in 1927 and a recent merger with Industrial
Tool who now makes air tools, DC electric tools, and electronic controls,),
and Quackenbush=AE (established 1947, makers of precision drilling
equipment); Industrial Energy Products Division - Airetool =AE(established
1929, making tube cleaners and expanders), and Kotthaus+Busch=AE (established
1846, producers of tube expansion and electronic expansion controls); and
ITD Automation Division - ITD AUTOMATION=AE (established 1987, makers of
assembly and fastening systems).
CLECO=AE and QUACKENBUSH=AE products are made in Houston; AIRETOOL=AE and
KOTTHAUS+BUSH=AE in Springfield, Ohio; ITD AUTOMATION=AE in Auburn Hill,
Michigan; and ROTOR=AE in Cleveland, Ohio.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Cleco History 1st find... |
Thanks for a great insight and interesting reading.
John Cox
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David & Miriam
Talley
Subject: RV10-List: Cleco History 1st find...
Here's my first find:
http://www.companyreports.com/cnoc/GIXoct97.html
<http://www.companyreports.com/cnoc/GIXoct97.html>
Here's an excerpt:
Well before the wall, 1899 to be exact, the company was founded as Cleveland
Pneumatic Tool Company in the city of the same name. In 1969 the now
legendary Dresser bought the Cleco Tool Division which grew up to become
Global's Industrial Tool Division (INTOOL) representing three segments of
its own:
Industrial Tool Division-Cleco(r) (established 1894, maker of portable air
tools), Roto Tool(r) (established in 1927 and a recent merger with
Industrial Tool who now makes air tools, DC electric tools, and electronic
controls,), and Quackenbush(r) (established 1947, makers of precision
drilling equipment); Industrial Energy Products Division - Airetool
(r)(established 1929, making tube cleaners and expanders), and
Kotthaus+Busch(r) (established 1846, producers of tube expansion and
electronic expansion controls); and ITD Automation Division - ITD
AUTOMATION(r) (established 1987, makers of assembly and fastening systems).
CLECO(r) and QUACKENBUSH(r) products are made in Houston; AIRETOOL(r) and
KOTTHAUS+BUSH(r) in Springfield, Ohio; ITD AUTOMATION(r) in Auburn Hill,
Michigan; and ROTOR(r) in Cleveland, Ohio.
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<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for a great insight and interesting
reading.
<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John Cox
<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:<font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of David Miriam Talley
PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cleco History
1st find...
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Here's my first find:
http://www.companyreports.com/cnoc/GIXoct97.html
Here's an excerpt:
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Well
before the wall, 1899 to be exact, the company was founded as Cleveland Pneumatic
Tool Company in the city of the same name. In 1969 the now legendary Dresser
bought the Cleco Tool Division which grew up to become Global's Industrial Tool
Division (INTOOL) representing three segments of its own:
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Industrial
Tool Division-Cleco(r) (established 1894, maker of portable air tools), Roto
Tool(r) (established in 1927 and a recent merger with Industrial Tool who now
makes air tools, DC electric tools, and electronic controls,), and Quackenbush(r)
(established 1947, makers of precision drilling equipment); Industrial Energy
Products Division - Airetool (r)(established 1929, making tube cleaners and
expanders), and Kotthaus+Busch(r) (established 1846, producers of tube expansion
and electronic expansion controls); and ITD Automation Division - ITD
AUTOMATION(r) (established 1987, makers of assembly and fastening systems).
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>CLECO(r)
and QUACKENBUSH(r) products are made in Houston; AIRETOOL(r) and KOTTHAUS+BUSH(r)
in
Springfield, Ohio; ITD AUTOMATION(r) in Auburn Hill, Michigan; and ROTOR(r) in
Cleveland, Ohio.
Message 30
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Here's another interesting tibbit:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/110224273971570.xml#continue
Excerpt:
Styler, 83, was born in Cleveland. He attended South High School during the
day while taking night courses in the machine shop at East Technical High
School. When he graduated from South in 1939, he started working at
Cleveland Pneumatic Tool Co. He served as a machinist's mate in the Navy
during World War II in the South Pacific.
He returned to Cleveland Pneumatic after the war. The company, now known as
Goodrich Aerospace, recently gave him a 65-year service award. He was on
the company payroll from 1939 until he died.
NOTE: This indicates what happened to the company, however, the first
posting shows that the CLECO DIVISION was purchased by Dresser.
Anyone else found anything?
DCT
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| Subject: | Cleveland to INTOOL to Cooper |
--> RV10-List message posted by: David & Miriam Talley <rv10@satx.rr.com>
Just found this:
http://www.shareholder.com/cooper/news/19980312-2991.htm
Excerpt:
HOUSTON, Mar. 12 -- Cooper Industries, Inc. (NYSE-CBE) today announced it
had completed its acquisition of INTOOL, a division of Global Industrial
Technologies, Inc. (NYSE-GIX), for $217.5 million. INTOOL, Cooper's third
addition to its power tool product line since January, is a Houston-based
manufacturer of industrial and commercial power tools, with 1997 sales of
$113 million.
More to follow!
DCT
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
Mark Grieve wrote:
> As I recall from A&P school, the 3/32 universal head rivets are a real
> pain to drive. Too easy to make eyebrows. Probably a lot better results
> if you can squeeze them.
> Mark
Amen to that. Squeezed most of them, however there were two that I had
to buck and shoot because I couldn't get the squeezer past the rudder
hinge bracket.
Hopefully not many more in the plane.
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
Do Not Archive
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Cooper has two answers to the site search for cleco:
Here's one for employment opportunities:
COOPER TOOLS
Heqadquartered in Lexington, SC, Cooper Tools' primary product lines
include pneumatic and DC electric tools, screwdriver bits, impact sockets,
universal joints, hoists, and assembly equipment sold under the Airetool,
Apex, Geta, Buckeye, Cleco, Doler, Dotco, Master Power, Metronix,
Quackenbush, Recoules and Utica trademarks, and licensed trademarks
Gardner-Denver and DGD. Cooper Tools has manufacturing facilities in five
U.S. and four international locations, and approximately 1,800 employees
worldwide.
For more information about career opportunities with Cooper Tools, follow
the employment links on our website or contact our
<http://www.cooperindustries.com/employment//employment/whyCooper.cfm>human
resources department.
DCT
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic cleco fastener |
Thanks to all who provided advice, opinion and comments...I'll go ahead and buy
one... ($65 is best price I found.so far at the Yardstore.
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pneumatic cleco fastener
Best money you will spend. Sell it after completion if you don't need in anymore
and get most of your money back. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of son hoang
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:49 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Pneumatic cleco fastener
Hi All
I am thinking of buying a pneumatic cleco tool
anybody has experience with one..good...bad...ugly ?
thanks
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