Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:52 AM - Build Order (Rene Felker)
2. 07:29 AM - Re: Build Order (Randy DeBauw)
3. 08:00 AM - Re: Edge Rolling Pipe (Rick)
4. 09:13 AM - Re: Build Order (JOHN STARN)
5. 09:22 AM - Re: Build Order (Randy DeBauw)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: Build Order (Rick)
7. 10:15 AM - Re: Build Order (Rene Felker)
8. 11:55 AM - Re: Build Order (William Curtis)
9. 02:53 PM - Electronic Ignition (Jesse Saint)
10. 04:48 PM - Re: Build Order (JOHN STARN)
11. 05:03 PM - Re: Build Order (Randy DeBauw)
12. 05:13 PM - Re: Electronic Ignition (Wayne Edgerton)
13. 06:57 PM - Too Quiet for the Weekend (John W. Cox)
14. 07:43 PM - Re: Weight & Balance scan (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
15. 07:49 PM - Re: Electronic Ignition (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
16. 08:34 PM - Re: Too Quiet for the Weekend (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
17. 09:37 PM - Re: Switching to a 7A (Paul Folbrecht)
18. 11:12 PM - Re: rv10 quick build (Shawn Moon)
19. 11:27 PM - reports from my trip to vans, and joining the madness ;) [long post] (James Ochs)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Just got my wing kit and was wondering about build order. Any reason why I
would not want to build the fuel tanks, flaps and ailerons first?
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
No.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Subject: RV10-List: Build Order
Just got my wing kit and was wondering about build order. Any reason why I would
not want to build the fuel tanks, flaps and ailerons first?
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Edge Rolling Pipe |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
The leading edges are preformed on the flaps and ailerons. No pipe required, getting
ready to build flaps, ailerons were quite fun after the tanks!! Never thought
I would be glad to prime again.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Randy are you related to John Harmon ?? KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:28 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Order
No.
Just got my wing kit and was wondering about build order. Any reason why I
would not want to build the fuel tanks, flaps and ailerons first?
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I don't know John so I didn't get the joke. I can only assume that he has short
responses. I am not getting much sleep these days. Hooking up antenna's, nav
lights and strobe lights. It's taking it's toll on me. Back to the hanger.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Build Order
Randy are you related to John Harmon ?? KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy@abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Order
No.
Just got my wing kit and was wondering about build order. Any reason why I would
not want to build the fuel tanks, flaps and ailerons first?
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Space is one of the things I am considering. I can store the completed
parts in my basement and I don't want to consume as much of my garage until
I have to. Also, I have a couple of people that come by and help, so I try
to plan around them being there...I don't rivet by my self, so it has been
good to have several things in work at one time. Once I start on the main
part of the wings, that will be the only thing I will be able to work on.
Thanks for the input. I will have more questions tonight after I really
start to look at the plans.
Do not archive
Rene' Felker
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Order
Rene'
No reason you can't deviate from my perspective, I'm getting ready to start
the flaps now. Getting the tanks done is a great feeling, ailerons and flaps
are a piece of cake, only reason I can think of to not build them first is
having a place to store them. With my wing stand ala' Tim olson I hung my
tanks, leading edges and control surfaces on the wings while they are in the
stand. The whole shebang, both wings and the stand, occupy a 3' X 15' space
in my garage. There is room for my Horizontal stab on the bottom shelf if I
wanted to put it there.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
to
and much
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Rene'
I don't see any reason not to. I did somewhat the same thing. I completed the
chapters on the spar, ribs, then while I decided what I would do with the top
skins (thicker 0.032 single sheet), I moved on and completed the outboard, leading
edges, fuel tanks and ailerons before moving back to the top skins. Now
Im back to the top skins. New 2024 T-3 0.032X144 top skins match drilled ready
for cleaning, priming and dimpling.
Anyone need replacement RV-10 inboard and outboard top skins? :-)
William Curtis
http://members.core.com/~wcurtis/
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Electronic Ignition |
We are trying to decide whether we get our MAG's rebuilt or to replace one
with a Lightspeed. The LASAR electronic ignition is a little on the
expensive and complicated side, so we would rather stay away from that.
What are the benefits of the Lightspeed? Which model would you recommend?
What kind of added performance can we expect on the IO-540? How complicated
is the installation?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ya got it, John Harmon (Harmon Rockets fame) is infamous for his very, VERY short
simple answers to complex questions. Unlike me he cuts right to the point.
A possible suggestion, when we ran the wires in N561FS I insisted on running two
extra wires in the wing runs. Totally different colors with looped ends at
both ends. Have used one set so far. Beats removing the tip & fuel tanks to add
and/or repair wires. We added strobes 2 years after of flying.
Keeping one nose to the grind store, stiff upper lip, shoulder to the wheel, head
down & eyes on the horizon may get things done but can be hard in that position.
8*) KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Order
I don't know John so I didn't get the joke. I can only assume that he has short
responses. I am not getting much sleep these days. Hooking up antenna's, nav
lights and strobe lights. It's taking it's toll on me. Back to the hanger.
Randy
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I thought that was it. Back to work. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Build Order
Ya got it, John Harmon (Harmon Rockets fame) is infamous for his very, VERY short
simple answers to complex questions. Unlike me he cuts right to the point.
A possible suggestion, when we ran the wires in N561FS I insisted on running two
extra wires in the wing runs. Totally different colors with looped ends at
both ends. Have used one set so far. Beats removing the tip & fuel tanks to add
and/or repair wires. We added strobes 2 years after of flying.
Keeping one nose to the grind store, stiff upper lip, shoulder to the wheel, head
down & eyes on the horizon may get things done but can be hard in that position.
8*) KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy@abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Order
I don't know John so I didn't get the joke. I can only assume that he has short
responses. I am not getting much sleep these days. Hooking up antenna's, nav
lights and strobe lights. It's taking it's toll on me. Back to the hanger.
Randy
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
I'm not sure how close you are to completing your project but you might want to
take a look at the following web site for E Mag Electronic Ignition.
http://www.emagair.com/E-MAG_product_page.htm
They currently aren't able to supply these for the 540 but I talked to them and
they say it's one of their high priorities to get it ready for the 540. It appears
to be a very straight forward system and solves a lot of problems.
I'm not the greatest mechanic, so I've been asking people who are a lot better
than me about elec ignition. I was told that the Light Speed is complicated to
install. The LASAR was easier to install with more advantages but as you noted
much more expensive.
I talked to Bart at AeroSport engines about elec ignition and he recommended, for
what my needs are for my 10, that the Light Speed Plasma II Plus would be
what I should use if I chose Light Speed. They say you will have better performance,
because of hotter spark, better fuel efficiency and starting and your
spark plugs will supposedly last longer.
Again my disclaimer on all of this is I'm currently in the research and learning
mode so read my thoughts with that in mind.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:52 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Electronic Ignition
We are trying to decide whether we get our MAG's rebuilt or to replace one with
a Lightspeed. The LASAR electronic ignition is a little on the expensive and
complicated side, so we would rather stay away from that.
What are the benefits of the Lightspeed? Which model would you recommend? What
kind of added performance can we expect on the IO-540? How complicated is
the installation?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Too Quiet for the Weekend |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
You guys have been all too quiet today, so here is some trivia.
From the time Richard VanGrunsven teased everyone back in May 2003 with
the first maiden flight of N410RV and then double teased them with the
first airshow at the Arlington, WA NWEAA Fly-In the first week of July,
2003 it was pent up demand to place orders for the four place RV-10.
Then at OSH '03 everyone packed into the big tent to hear VAN and to
witness the gates of opportunity opened as deposits were written.
Remember that day Randy. Yesterday there have now been 400 kits
ordered.
It took till September 1, 2003 to sell the first 100, then on to March
7, 2004 (just before SNF 2004) the number passed 200. On November 10,
2004 the number went over 300. Now on April 28th,2005 - James Ochs from
out here on the Left Coast is the proud owner of kit 400. What a neat
number 40400 and beyond. "Do I hear 500 before the end of the first two
years?"
OSH-05 Should indeed be, the Year of the RV-10. Two months, Three weeks
and Five days.....You guys have a great weekend!
John - KUAO
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE: Weight & Balance scan |
I found some humerous "almost correct" words in that OCR-scanned weight and balance
information:
"Increased empty weight will decrease useful toad;"
"remain within grass weight limits."
he he
TDT
40025
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Wayne Edgerton
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Electronic Ignition
I'm not sure how close you are to completing your project but you might want to
take a look at the following web site for E Mag Electronic Ignition.
http://www.emagair.com/E-MAG_product_page.htm
They currently aren't able to supply these for the 540 but I talked to them and
they say it's one of their high priorities to get it ready for the 540. It appears
to be a very straight forward system and solves a lot of problems.
I'm not the greatest mechanic, so I've been asking people who are a lot better
than me about elec ignition. I was told that the Light Speed is complicated to
install. The LASAR was easier to install with more advantages but as you noted
much more expensive.
I talked to Bart at AeroSport engines about elec ignition and he recommended, for
what my needs are for my 10, that the Light Speed Plasma II Plus would be
what I should use if I chose Light Speed. They say you will have better performance,
because of hotter spark, better fuel efficiency and starting and your
spark plugs will supposedly last longer.
Again my disclaimer on all of this is I'm currently in the research and learning
mode so read my thoughts with that in mind.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:52 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Electronic Ignition
We are trying to decide whether we get our MAG's rebuilt or to replace
one with a Lightspeed. The LASAR electronic ignition is a little on the expensive
and complicated side, so we would rather stay away from that.
What are the benefits of the Lightspeed? Which model would you recommend?
What kind of added performance can we expect on the IO-540? How complicated
is the installation?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Electronic Ignition |
Randy:
Have you weighed your plane yet? How close to Van's empty weight and/or CG were
you?
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Wayne Edgerton
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Electronic Ignition
I'm not sure how close you are to completing your project but you might want to
take a look at the following web site for E Mag Electronic Ignition.
http://www.emagair.com/E-MAG_product_page.htm
They currently aren't able to supply these for the 540 but I talked to them and
they say it's one of their high priorities to get it ready for the 540. It appears
to be a very straight forward system and solves a lot of problems.
I'm not the greatest mechanic, so I've been asking people who are a lot better
than me about elec ignition. I was told that the Light Speed is complicated to
install. The LASAR was easier to install with more advantages but as you noted
much more expensive.
I talked to Bart at AeroSport engines about elec ignition and he recommended, for
what my needs are for my 10, that the Light Speed Plasma II Plus would be
what I should use if I chose Light Speed. They say you will have better performance,
because of hotter spark, better fuel efficiency and starting and your
spark plugs will supposedly last longer.
Again my disclaimer on all of this is I'm currently in the research and learning
mode so read my thoughts with that in mind.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:52 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Electronic Ignition
We are trying to decide whether we get our MAG's rebuilt or to replace
one with a Lightspeed. The LASAR electronic ignition is a little on the expensive
and complicated side, so we would rather stay away from that.
What are the benefits of the Lightspeed? Which model would you recommend?
What kind of added performance can we expect on the IO-540? How complicated
is the installation?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Too Quiet for the Weekend |
Since it's so quiet, I typed in some of the numbers from the Weight & Balance information
into the attached spreadsheet. The second page calculates your empty
cg based on scale weights. The front sheet does some weight & balance and
has a simple graph of cg envelope and gross weight. Enjoy!
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RV10-List: Too Quiet for the Weekend
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
You guys have been all too quiet today, so here is some trivia.
From the time Richard VanGrunsven teased everyone back in May 2003 with
the first maiden flight of N410RV and then double teased them with the
first airshow at the Arlington, WA NWEAA Fly-In the first week of July,
2003 it was pent up demand to place orders for the four place RV-10.
Then at OSH '03 everyone packed into the big tent to hear VAN and to
witness the gates of opportunity opened as deposits were written.
Remember that day Randy. Yesterday there have now been 400 kits
ordered.
It took till September 1, 2003 to sell the first 100, then on to March
7, 2004 (just before SNF 2004) the number passed 200. On November 10,
2004 the number went over 300. Now on April 28th,2005 - James Ochs from
out here on the Left Coast is the proud owner of kit 400. What a neat
number 40400 and beyond. "Do I hear 500 before the end of the first two
years?"
OSH-05 Should indeed be, the Year of the RV-10. Two months, Three weeks
and Five days.....You guys have a great weekend!
John - KUAO
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=6UzfNwf8ynHkHsYlHjBKxEO31cUFHjM4AoscaV+r6MGADd8F3z54DgNAa2x7EyBm33LVqyV8w4B+Ryqdu7wprRfGaLjIcSjf93TGPe5pCe7q3nZrVEcakvnrgNSwpLOIAGnxXL2uHwOeTbzvDYwa23dDFDxDm5ImE92B8MOT/T4=
;
| Subject: | Re: Switching to a 7A |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
Can't do IFR in a 7A? Well, Van's will not "endorse" IFR flying in any RV
*including the 10*. Many people fly 6's and 7's IFR. The only difference
between one of those and a 10 is the 10's somewhat better "stability".. if
you're spending too much time on the stick in IMC, put the AP on.
I'm curious as to what the reasoning was of the anti-IFR RV owners.
Time: 12:39:29 PM PST US
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Switching to a 7A
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Actually, I believe that this thread is both interesting and of importance.
Mission is everything in flying, thanks to those damnable laws of physics
and all the compromises that must be made. I went through a long and drawn
out quest several years ago when this bug first bit me. I flew the
Velocity, Lancair IV and ES, RV 7, 8, 9, Glasair, Glastar, even a Searay. I
love low and slow and think that my last plane will be something like the
Sportsman on floats. However, my first choice was to satisfy speed and
responsiveness, and thus I finally settled for the RV-7. It had the speed I
wanted without the expense and risk of the Lancairs. It also seemed fairly
easy to build. Yet I also wanted IFR, and was told that although you could
do IFR in something like an RV-7, it was not recommended, and this by
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=aYCXtf6qAeqm3S8SmvsaJKLvj0T9x4YR3u8fP3T0CEjk56DDDpjsML1hO38OlYcrefOBtBrlkvwhLCE0dLYxkypSuWkCDFB2rxMzwQCiEhX3BqY4eH+NsFyWH8T81x8cnPbfrM6GmdNHWrY1byKp6ZAbmqZM//nBZPu9QfYi07o=
;
| Subject: | rv10 quick build |
I started riveting my VS together, and had a real hard time with the first couple
of rivets. So I decided to get my wife to help me. That was a huge difference.
I don't intend to pound any other rivets where she is not helping me.
The riveting went very fast and the quality was very good. The bonus is that
she was able to take pictures to work and prove to her co-workers that we are
actually doing this. Since she works for an airline, those pictures were apparently
quite the subject of conversation this week.
--Shawn
40366
"McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "McGANN, Ron"
I think Scott is spot on. I built the tail kit solo - with the exception of
the HS nose ribs where I had some help. Rivetting solo is tough - the bar
slipped off one of the first rivets I set on the VS and left an impressive
birth mark. But after some practice, I managed to finish off the tail
without any more trauma. However, it took me a looooong time. I am now
well into the wings, and after getting some help with the wing skins,
particularly the leading edges, I am reluctant to even try it solo. With
two people, the rivetting goes sweetly and (IMHO) dramatically reduces the
time required.
Ron
Tanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rv10 quick build
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt"
The best thing you can do is have a partner helping you 100% of the
time. We will have our (slow build) RV-10 flying in two years. We have
about 6 months left. And I travel with my work a lot. But Randy is
about right on his time estimates. If I am home on a weekend we both
will work between 12-15 hours on the weekend and 2-3 days during the
week. I am planning to be right around 2000 - 2200 hours but that is
only 1000 shop hours with two people.
I really want to write an article about building with a partner. I have
worked about 2 or 3 days without a partner and I just get frustrated at
how slow I go and just quit. It just isn't even worth my time working
on the plane without having someone there. I think it would be very
easy to order a quick build kit, have someone help you and be flying in
less than one year.
Scott Schmidt
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Folbrecht
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rv10 quick build
--> RV10-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht
3-4 years (for a slow-build) is exactly what I've been planning on.
And I doubt I'll paint it myself.
--- John Jessen wrote:
> So, if I have the arithmetic right, and if life were highly regulated,
and
> one could work 15 hours per week, 48 weeks a year, you'd be done with
the
> quick build in 2.36 years. Slow build 3.05 years. Ouch. John
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | reports from my trip to vans, and joining the madness ;) [long |
post]
Hi all,
Just got home from my trip up to Van's this week. What a Blast!
I decided to rent the 182T at my local FBO, hijack my instructor (of course,
once I told him that we were going to visit Vans and take a demo ride in the
-10 there wasn't much "hijacking" about it - one of the guys at the FBO has
built two Vans) and do my long x-country for my IFR ticket during the trip.
So during this trip I got a lot of firsts in:
1) first time in high performance aircraft ( I had "complex" since I
started training in the katana w/ a variable pitch prop)
2) first time flying out of California
3) first real x-country under IFR
4) first time riding in a Vans
I wound up with 9.2 hours of x-country time and got that long x-country
requirement out of the way, and even got somewhere around 1.5 hours of
actual on the flight(s).
The 182 was giving us about 140kts true and climb rates in the neighborhood
of 7 - 800 fpm (of course we weren't really pushing it to see what the climb
rates were. At 140kts cruise and 6 - 7000' we were seeing fuel flow rates
in the neighborhood of 13 or 14 gph.
So. jumped into 410RV with Ken as the pilot. We taxied over to the fuel
island and he filled the tanks (he had flown several flights that day and it
was getting low ;). In taking the active he turned to centerline and gave
it full throttle. I think the roll was something in the neighborhood of
300' before we were airborne. It may have been a little longer, or a little
shorter, I was kind of busy with trying to peel myself out of the seat at
the time. You really feel that thrust when you go to full power with that
lyco up there. Looking at the VSI we were getting almost 1500'/min nearly
immediately. That tells me you can get out of some REALLY short fields ;)
A couple of minutes later we were at 3000' and he put it into (I think)
about a 55% power cruise and we were doing ~160 MPH with a fuel flow of 10 -
11 gph. We then did a few turns left and right, and he turned the controls
over to me. One thing I had a lot of trouble with in the plane at first is
that the visibility is so good over the nose that the sight picture makes
you immediately put the plane in a climb. And boy does it climb. That
plane can get away from you fast.
Next he did some steep turns and rolled directly from steep turns to the
left to turns to the right and back. The plane just rolled in and out and
back and forth with no complaining or weirdness or slop in the transitions.
It was just amazingly responsive.
The next step was slow flight, and the controls forces are very light
compared to the 182, even in slow flight. Very good aileron response even
at very low airspeeds. He then took it to the edge of the stall and the
buffeting was very pronounced. There were only two of us in the airplane
and he was able to only get it to barely break into a stall with two on
board. I think that while it's a good thing for a four seat x-country plane
to be difficult to stall it does kind of indicate that there might be a
small problem that I'll get to in a second.
The last part of the flight was bringing the airplane up to cruise from
160MPH. Ken advanced the throttle and, and once again, I had to peel myself
out of the seat. It took about 60 seconds to accelerate to 200MPH and it
looked like fuel flow was in the neighborhood of 13GPH. This plane just
kicked the crap out of the 182 on about every front. Ken throttled back and
let me fly to the downwind in the pattern (although I think he was a little
annoyed because I tend to be pretty conservative when I'm at the controls of
a new machine ;) Once again I did have some issues with the sight picture
as far as maintaining straight and level, but I think if I had an hour or
two in the plane that would not be an issue. It is really due to the fact
that the visibility out the front is just incredible. it is much better than
in the 182/172s and very comparable to the visibility out the canopy of the
Katana.
On downwind, Ken once again took over and brought the plane in to land.
Approach speeds were in the low 60's and the landing was very smooth. The
problem that I alluded to earlier was that it seems with two people that it
is difficult to get the nose up to the point where the stall happens. as a
corollary I noticed that ken had both hands on the stick and it was pulled
fully back in the flare. I don't think there was much, if any elevator
left. Roll out was pretty standard and he didn't use much brake, just kept
the elevator back and let the speed bleed off.
One thing that I asked about, and liked the answer to, is that he needed
very little braking for taxi. The prop wash on the rudder is adequate to
perform most normal steering maneuvers on the ground and you only need a
touch of brakes for the tight turns. This also indicates that there is very
good rudder authority at low airspeeds. On the flip side, you need very
very little rudder during normal flight.
So those of you who were paying attention will notice that I said that my
instructor was going to ride with us in the -10 and then later mentioned
that there were only Ken and I in the plane during the demo flight. My
instructor decided that since he was there he was going to do a demo in the
9A instead ;) He's pretty fired up about helping me to build and I think we
may have another RV builder shortly ;)
Well, once out of the plane I went directly to the car, grabbed the order
form I had filled out two weeks ago and marched straight up to the front
desk. After taking the form and running the credit card, she came back with
a copy of my order form, told me it would be about 10 - 14 days before the
emp kit showed up at my door and gave me my builder number -- 40400. I was
wondering when they were going to hit 400 ;)
As far as the elevator authority problem is concerned I think it is pretty
easily solved by using ballast if there are only two people in the plane.
If you don't already have baggage in the baggage compartment, just drop a
couple of bags of shot in there and it should help with the balance. A
little bit of a pia, but I think a very small price to pay for the
performance you get out of the plane. The other problem people have noticed
with weight and balance is the example in the W&B sheets that were posted
the other day with the aft cg being a bit past the limit with 5 gallons of
fuel and four people and 150lbs of baggage. While I could see getting to
this point, I am not sure that it is "smart" flying in the first place. 150
lbs of baggage is the supposed structural limit of the floor, so that's
about as much as you can put back there, and, in my plane at least, the
pilot hasn't seen 170lbs in quite some time ;), so I do see that it is not
totally out of the question to get that aft loading. The thing that strikes
me as "not smart" is that at a 12 - 13 gph fuel burn in normal cruise if all
you have in the tanks is 5 gallons you are really starting to push the 30
minutes of fuel requirements, and you are basically busted on the IFR
requirements. Personally, I'm getting pretty nervous if I am down to an
hours worth of fuel, but that is just me. As such, it is just a question of
being aware of what the limits are and adhering to them. As a comparison
point for certified, if you put four people into a 172SP and fill the tanks
you are most likely over gross and definitely at a CG that is way aft of the
limit. in the 182, you are within 2" of the aft cg with 4 "standard people"
and full fuel and 150 lbs of baggage. I am guessing that with the -10 that
the fuel is pretty much ahead of the cg and in the 182 its right on the cg.
So maybe that is one point in favor of the 182, but I don't think it makes
up for the performance characteristics of the 10. John Cox had a good
suggestion to fix it. use a depleted U-238 disk for a prop spinner ;)
Seriously, if it does turn out to be a problem once a few of these are
flying I will probably figure out some sort of ballast to compensate if
possible. If not, then it's just a question of knowing the limits and
adhering to them.
I have to say that the visit to Van's and the demo flight was maybe 25% of
what I got out of my trip up there. I have to say that it was awesome to
have John drive us around and introduce us to a large number of builders on
the airport, including several who were in various stages of projects other
than Vans. Especially thanks to Randy for letting us poke and prod at his
-10 and between my instructor and I, I believe we probably logged at least
.5 hours of hangar flying ;) It was a big help to see the various stages
people were in too. Another builder on the airport is building a 9 and
spent a couple of hours just chatting with us and showing us what he was
doing (he was working on the control linkages for the fuse) and letting us
ask lots of questions and be generally nosy. I was really attracted to
building a vans just by the community I saw on the mailing list, and now
that I have met a number of you, I have to say that the list doesn't even
begin to describe how great the community is. So again, thanks to everybody
for everything you did for us while we were up there!!!
James Ochs, #40400
(im)patiently waiting on the emp kit
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|