Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:12 AM - empennage extras... (James Ochs)
2. 11:29 AM - Re: QB fuselage & electric schematic (brian bollaert)
3. 01:01 PM - Re: empennage extras... (John Hasbrouck)
4. 05:35 PM - Re: empennage extras... (Richard Sipp)
5. 08:15 PM - Re: [RV10] weight and Balance sheeW (John W. Cox)
6. 11:31 PM - Demo Flight and Questions (Rene)
Message 1
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| Subject: | empennage extras... |
Hi All,
Getting ready for delivery of my emp kit. and had a few questions.
Is the elevator trim mechanically actuated or electrically in the tail
section? I see there is an accessory for electric elevator trim for some of
the other models on vans site. I don't remember seeing any manual trim in
the demo 10. If I'm planning on putting an autopilot in do I need to get an
electric actuator for the trim? Is there a manual control option? For
example in the 172/182 there's a big fat trim wheel, and it the autopilot
drives a motor somewhere that controls it. If I need to put a motor in the
elevator, I'd like to it before closing up all the elevator bits.
Is the 3.5 oz bottle of proseal enough for the trailing edges on the emp
kit?
Does anyone have a comparison of the aftermarket static ports and the van's
method as far as installation error is concerned? Is it negligible?
Anybody thought about a cockpit adjustable rudder trim? Or does the
autopilot take care of that by just moving the whole rudder a bit?
Thanks,
James
#40400
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: QB fuselage & electric schematic |
Hi David:
We recieved our qb fuse aprox 3 weeks ago , our front floor panels were not even
in the kit ! , we called vans & they sent them out , we also did not have the
drilling done , actually it is not that difficult to do( gear weldments) (
it is more annoying & and they could have easilly done that over there ) probably
in an hour, for me probably 10 when i am done . while you have all that
out put your brake lines in (easier that way).
Also as a side note , i don't know how many of you guys are scratching your heads
over the wireing on this plane (i am) i mentioned this to vans this friday
and (Tom) said that they just put togeather a set, needless to say i have ordered
it $25 as i recall , he mentioned that it is just the basics , that should
put us on the right track though.
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: QB fuselage
Anyone try to remove the front floors that are temp riveted in place? My kit
arrived with the gear weldments in place but the forward support was not match
drilled to the floor and Z channel beneath it nor were nutplates installed. As
a result to follow the plans one would have to remove the gear weldment (which
will be a daunting task) to remove the floor.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: empennage extras... |
James,
The elevator trim is electric and is supplied with the emp./tailcone kit.
There is no mechanical backup nor do I think one is possible given the design
of the trim. Altitude functions of the autopilot ( assuming you use Tru-Trak
) are taken care of by direct connection of the servo to the elevator bellcrank.
Roll control is by servo in the wing driving an aileron bellcrank. I used
Cleaveland Tools static ports 'cause I liked the look. Doubt there would be any
diffrence in installation error since they are in the same place on the tailcone
as Vans's pop rivet ports. Check the proseal when you buy it for working
time. I bought mine in the 3.5 oz cartridge and it has a 1/2 hour working time.
Not long enough for your first try at the rudder trailing edge. I didn't
use proseal at all on any trailing edges only for the foam ribs in the elevators
and trim tabs. Check Mike Howes website for alternate method to proseal
in the trailing edges. You'll have a great time with this kit, take your time
and read the directions, it's is extremely well done.....john
john hasbrouck
#40264
wings
Message 4
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s=test1; d=earthlink.net;
b=UXF9dc8RUd6a0HSuO0mo2n1RDUQuVysJIIvTErgnDwlzBtIKa1E3DNUwPbl8Jim6;
| Subject: | Re: empennage extras... |
Hi All,
Getting ready for delivery of my emp kit. and had a few questions.
Is the elevator trim mechanically actuated or electrically in the tail section?
I see there is an accessory for electric elevator trim for some of the other
models on vans site. I don't remember seeing any manual trim in the demo 10.
If I'm planning on putting an autopilot in do I need to get an electric actuator
for the trim? Is there a manual control option? For example in the 172/182
there's a big fat trim wheel, and it the autopilot drives a motor somewhere
that controls it. If I need to put a motor in the elevator, I'd like to it
before closing up all the elevator bits.
Is the 3.5 oz bottle of proseal enough for the trailing edges on the emp kit?
Does anyone have a comparison of the aftermarket static ports and the van's method
as far as installation error is concerned? Is it negligible?
Anybody thought about a cockpit adjustable rudder trim? Or does the autopilot
take care of that by just moving the whole rudder a bit?
Thanks,
James
#40400
James:
I'll take a stab at these.
The only elevator trim I am aware of on the 10 is electrical. Everything you
need for it is in the kit. Autopilot control of the elevator is a direct connection
of the servo to the elevator linkage in the forward section of aft fuselage.
TruTrak, I believe offers an automatic trim option on their higher end
autopilots but this is usually not necessary.
Directional control is via a roll servo connected directly to the aileron linkage.
Again, TruTrak offers a yaw damper feature on their top end autopilots
which controls the rudder but for all normal operations the roll and pitch servos
will accomplish everything you might want to do.
The 3.5 oz bottle of pro-seal should be more than enough for the trailing edges.
Look in the achieves and other builders web sites for good ideas on techniques
to do the trailing edges.
Dick Sipp
RV4 250DS
RV10 40065 110DV
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: [RV10] weight and Balance sheeW |
VANS did provide it in the shipped Finish Kits. In the PDF provided by
Tim Olson (over on Matronics) last week, VANS defined the forward and
aft C.G. as 15% (forward) and 30% (aft) along the 56" wing chord line.
In simple terms that's 8.4" from the leading edge (defined to be at
99.4" aft of datum and continuing to a point 16.8" from the leading
edge. That works out from 99.4" aft of the datum for the LE location
to get a (15%) of 107.8" Maximum Forward CG limit and then the Maximum
Aft CG works out to 116.24" aft of datum. Long as you stay in those
Loading parameters, you can pack just about anything up to your DAR
approved Gross Weight. The Lancair boys were looking all over for the
name of which DAR would approve higher and higher gross weights. Let's
all get a grip! The only limitation is loss of minimum safe performance
margins. VAN has always provided a safe, stable platform and as James
Ochs and Randy can attest. It will plant your butt "dyno" firmly in
those OA seat cushions on max take-off throttle, depart Terra-firma in
about 300 feet give or take, then give you an eye-poppin 1500+/- fpm
climb-out with the Lycoming IO-540.
To get esoteric, you can even calculate the weight-arm of those
hypothetical 5 gallon matched Dual Tip Tanks and what that does for
lateral stability along the longitudinal axis so far from your hard
centerline?
If I get caught up, I will take Ken Scott's advice (I was serious about
wanting to know) and list every component on the panel of N410RV and its
associated weight. Remember that the individual components have
different depths and their respective datum distances differ from the
actual panel distance installed.
Van's did a great job with the Seven unique loading scenarios in the
documents (dated 2/4/05). It drives home the importance of Load
Planning. I would think future builders would want that information
much sooner than the finish kit and then process the differences
installed into yours, Scott's and Randy's variants. Not everyone will
want the IFR enhanced panels that Tim and I dream of installing. Some
may still embrace the installation of used (pre-owned) Steam gages to
keep the budget low. Each to his own. I know several builders curious
as to the numbers on Randy's O2 system. On the subject of cockpit
acoustics, Ken responded that all you need is a great $900 Bose headset
to deal with the background noise. I would like to think that 30 pounds
of acoustics and an 8db reduction level merit discussion. In my aviation
club (most of the guys are way beyond 65 - you should see the number of
hearing aides).
On the Lancair IVP, the first device turned ON at startup is the
air-conditioning and the last to come OFF. When the composite door and
canopy warm the interior, that fabulous solar heat load through the
exceptional LP Aero windscreen can get your attention quick in the lower
latitudes. Maybe Brian can pipe in on the RV-8 in sunny New Mexico
going to OSH.
Up here in the temperate, overcast, drizzly NW it's just not the same
solar collector as AZ, Southern CA, NM or TX.
Doug, do spend some time with Tim's PDF, it was and remains a great
planning tool. Maybe Boeing Surplus (up in Renton) actually has some
surplus U-238 along with their supply of surplus titanium. Can't you
just see a few pounds mounted to the aft tie down eyelet to counter the
weight of that TSIO-550 ;-) The Lancair guys actually have a name for
their lower cowl "It's the Dolly Pardon". I have heard a story of one
guy who used all titanium hardware in an attempt to cut ounces, which
add to pounds which when divided by the horsepower gives us that VANS
GRIN.
Hope its been a productive weekend. Doug I am curious how far beyond
the Vetterman system you are now? I spoke to Chris Stepp on those hot
collectors.
John - KUAO
________________________________
From: RV10@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV10@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Doug Peterson
Subject: RE: [RV10] weight and Balance sheeW
Thank you John,
Isn't Vans supposed to provide a designed envelope (fore and aft) based
from
a designated datum, to not exceed when loading the aircraft?
You know stay between two values take off and landing?
Doug
_____
Message 6
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| Subject: | Demo Flight and Questions |
OK, I just got some free time (I should be sleeping) and here is my quick
report on the demo flight. I have to admit that I was way to excited to
remember all the details.
First I have to take my hat off to Vans, I was in Oregon for my wife's
birthday and really only had one chance to drop by. I was in route between
Coos Bay and Astoria with a pregnant wife and an 18 month old. We had to
stop to see other people on the way and as you would expect we were running
late. I called Vans on the phone and asked if I could get a late demo
flight, they said if I could make it there by 3:30, ok. The GPS showed me
making it there at 3:33, so I gave it a little more gas and just made it
there in time. They had the plane pulled out and ready to go.
I had never flown in any RV before, so this was a treat.
As reported before, acceleration put me in the seat and the climb out was at
1500 FPM and what looked like 110 MPH. We were not at max power, once the
climb was established he reduced the power. I think this has all been
reported before.
Pitch forces (movement of the stick) greater than roll, but I found it very
comfortable. I was being way to gentle with the turns, so he had me do a
couple hard right to hard left turns.
The stall demo only went to a buffet and it appeared to not have any
noticeable wing drop. He did say that if we had more weight in the back the
airplane would break and not just buffet.
I can not remember who, but someone asked about turbulence. He did pass
through a very small area of very light turbulence and it did feel like the
tail wondered a little. But, I was looking for that so it might have been
my over active imagination.
I followed a twin back into the strip and we had to pull back on the power
to keep the speed down during a very slow decent.
Landing was great, ~500 feet with moderate braking.
Someone was asking about antennas on the Vans A/C, I looked and all I saw
was one com and one transponder (My guess) on the belly. The ELT was in the
tail.
I am really motivated to get my built and in the air, I still have a grin on
my face and know I have made the right decision.
I do have a couple of questions for those of you who have blazed the trail
ahead of me. I am just finishing up the Emp kit and have received my wing
kit. Here are the questions.
I know that some of my decisions affect how I build the wings, but I am not
sure I know all the decisions I have to make. Here is a list of what I
think affects the wing build process, are there any others.
Things I have decided.
IFR A/C
Heated Pitot Tube
AOA
Low Fuel Warning Light
(Have not decided on fuel gage sensor, don't really understand the pros and
cons)
Went with Vans light package 6
Went with Vans landing light
(Have not made the antenna decision, need more input)
Is there anything else I need to think about before I go head long into the
wings?
Thanks in advance for inputs.
Rene'
40322
N423CF
801-721-6080
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