---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/13/05:36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:16 AM - Re: plane flew into restricted airspace (Rob Kermanj) 2. 06:02 AM - Re: good tool supplier... (Bill and Tami Britton) 3. 06:20 AM - Re: plane flew into restricted airspace (Robert Wright) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: good tool supplier... (Tim Olson) 5. 07:00 AM - Re: Compressor (bob.kaufmann) 6. 08:58 AM - Wingtips (Jesse Saint) 7. 09:00 AM - Re: Compressor (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com) 8. 09:21 AM - Re: Wingtips (Mark Ritter) 9. 09:50 AM - Re: Wingtips (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 10. 09:53 AM - Re: Wingtips (Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)) 11. 10:04 AM - Re: Compressor (Tim Olson) 12. 10:25 AM - Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (James Hein) 13. 11:00 AM - Soft rivets (JOHN STARN) 14. 11:05 AM - Re: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (Stein Bruch) 15. 11:22 AM - Re: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (James Ochs) 16. 11:37 AM - Re: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (Mani Ravee) 17. 11:41 AM - Re: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (Mani Ravee) 18. 11:49 AM - Re: Wingtips (Randy DeBauw) 19. 11:56 AM - rattle can primer (Dj Merrill) 20. 12:07 PM - Wing Root Connector (Sean Stephens) 21. 12:07 PM - AOA installation (Droopy Erickson) 22. 12:09 PM - Re: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (Stein Bruch) 23. 12:29 PM - Re: Wing Root Connector (Randy DeBauw) 24. 12:30 PM - Re: AOA installation (Randy DeBauw) 25. 12:33 PM - Re: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (Larry) 26. 12:42 PM - Re: AOA installation (Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)) 27. 01:21 PM - Re: AOA installation (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 28. 01:44 PM - Re: Wingtips (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com) 29. 01:52 PM - Re: Wingtips (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 30. 02:53 PM - Re: rattle can primer (Brian Denk) 31. 03:53 PM - Re: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... (Stein Bruch) 32. 04:22 PM - Re: rattle can primer (Bill Schlatterer) 33. 08:21 PM - Re: WTB: (Robert G. Wright) 34. 09:31 PM - Re: Rivet squeezer washers (William Curtis) 35. 10:02 PM - Re: Wing Root Connector (William Curtis) 36. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: Wing Root Connector (Sean Stephens) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:42 AM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace --> RV10-List message posted by: Rob Kermanj This man makes a lot of sense! On May 12, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" > > I second MOST of this. > > Jesse Saint > I-TEC, Inc. > jesse@itecusa.org > www.itecusa.org > W: 352-465-4545 > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:49 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Man that idiot in the 152 made a lot of enemies. This sort of thing in > the link that Tim (the other Tim) gave, is truly the thing that makes > this small, idiotic mistake, into a far-reaching, big, huge frigging > mistake that will drastically affect us all. http://www.aero-news.net > Oh, and Daley is the worlds largest idiot, by the way. > > Wayne, you can give up the thread of how big a threat the C152 is > loaded with explosives....if you want to use that argument, then I > think we owe it to the world to voluntarily give up our planes, and > clear the skies. We owe it to the world to not allow trucks into > cities or pouplation centers where there are more than 200 people > per city block. We owe it to the world to close down international > shipping, or at least produce offshore ship inspection centers that > they must stop at, outside our US territorial waters for a complete > inspection before continuing. We should close down mass transit. > We should close all US stadiums and sporting events. For heaven's > sake, what kind of self-respecting true american PATRIOT would allow > their own CHILDREN to attend a pro-football game....that sh1t is > DANGEROUS....letting them go into a stadium. Hell, even if there > isn't a bomb, there's a crowd of drunk people who could trample > them. > > The way I see it is, sure, EVERYTHING is a threat. But, almost > everything is something that a terrorist can still get away with. > How much of a chance do you give ANY one person in this world > if someone else really wants them dead. I'd bet on the shooter > every time. > > That being the case, I think people need to be realistic and > just plain understand that there are absolutely no guarantees > in life....and no matter how hard they try in Washington, the > only have about 1% of what it takes to protect you. The rest is > up to you to watch you back. Truck, bus, plane, train, rocket, > or even little red wagon....anything can haul a weapon. > > Do I think we're going to be attacked again some day? Damn right > I do...we keep whacking at the hornets nest every day. Do I > really care to give up any freedoms to protect myself from that > threat? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! We have no idea exactly what the > threat IS, so we give up too much in life to try to fix all the > holes. > > Did anyone else but me think that story made a ridiculous amount > of headline news for what it really was? Did they count how > many box vans, and trucks made it within 3 miles of the whitehouse? > Did they count how many people wearing long overcoats, with suspicously > large lumps under them, came within 1 mile of the whitehouse? > Funny thing, that stinkin' grenade that was within 100' of the pres > himself didn't make 10% of the headlines that this one tiny cessna > 152, piloted by a (probably) rusty-skilled pilot did. Hmmmm, one > thing is a real, actual, explosive. One is basically a rubber-band > powered airplane. > > Wow, did I really just write all that? Time sure flies....I hope > I can still fly by the time my RV-10 is done. I've probably > NEVER been so paranoid about the future as I was on Sept. 12-14 > when I realized that it was a real possibility that I'd maybe > never be flying a small plane again. To me, if they take away > our planes, we may as well haul out our shotguns and go on > a march....because at that point, it went WAY too far. > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 > Current project: Fuselage > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > >> >> >> Check out the latest at www.aero-news.net . . . >> >> TDT >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne >> Edgerton >> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 1:42 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >> >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Wayne Edgerton" > >> >> I had flown my last plane at almost 800 lbs over gross and that would > equate >> to a bunch of explosives. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:03 AM >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >> >> >> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" >>> >>> >>> >>> What's the useful load of a C-152, compared to a SUV? >>> >>> TDT >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne >>> Edgerton >>> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:59 AM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >>> >>> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Wayne Edgerton" >>> >>> >>> Unless it was loaded with explosives like the car bombs that are >>> going off >>> in IRAQ that destroy whole buildings. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:02 AM >>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't know what's sadder - two guys who can't navigate, and didn't >>> notice >>> this huge city below them, or evacuating the Capital because a C-152 >>> was >>> on >>> its way. What would a -152 to if it hit the Capital? Make a soot >>> mark >>> and >>> slide down the side? >>> >>> TDT >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint >>> Sent: Thu 5/12/2005 8:26 AM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >>> >>> >>> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" >>> >>> Well said! >>> >>> Jesse Saint >>> I-TEC, Inc. >>> jesse@itecusa.org >>> www.itecusa.org >>> W: 352-465-4545 >>> C: 352-427-0285 >>> F: 815-377-3694 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AI Nut >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:16 PM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >>> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: AI Nut >>> >>> Be very careful to assign blame to one's selves when the actual >>> problem >>> lies with over reaction from the security Nazi's. >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> son hoang wrote: >>> >>> >>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "son hoang" >>>> >>>> C 152 w/ 2 men on board violated no fly zone >>>> White House and Congress evacuated >>>> red level alert >>>> stock market dived because of the security scare >>>> >>>> this incident made me angry, frustrated and very sad >>>> I just shook my head in disbelief >>>> there was much over reaction to the real threat >>>> but if we GA pilots keep doing this we will lose any freedom we >>>> have to >>> >>> fly >>> >>>> who do we have to blame but ourselves ( or a few rotten ones among >>>> us) >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Bob Hodgson" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:05 PM >>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mufflers on Rv's >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==================================== >>> ==================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:44 AM PST US spamd3.ruraltel.net * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines From: "Bill and Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: good tool supplier... Yeah, I know. I just have to bring myself to spend another $65 for it. I'm sure it will happen but I thought I might try the washer idea first. Bill Britton ----- Original Message ----- From: ddavis@virtual-corp.net To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 12:52 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: good tool supplier... fyi Cleaveland tools sells an adjustable set holder that you should be able to use on your squeezer. http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?numberSNSHA45 Deems Davis emp 40406 "Bill and Tami Britton" Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com 05/12/2005 08:37 PM Please respond to rv10-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Re: RV10-List: good tool supplier... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" James, I recently purchased a pneumatic squeezer without an adjustable set holder. Could you send the recommendations on how many washers to use as spacers for the different size rivets??? Also, I don't have any of the washers but does anybody know their specs (can they be found locally at a hardware store or are they aviation specific)??? TIA Bill Britton RV-10 Emp #40137 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Ochs" To: Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:28 PM Subject: RV10-List: good tool supplier... > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs > > Hi All, > > Just got off the phone with clear air tools. I bought one of their > rebuilt tandem squeezers off of ebay and called them to finish up the > payment. I asked the gentleman who answered the phone if he was > familiar with the particular model I bought and his response was "yes, > I'm the one who rebuilt it". He then spent the next 10 minutes on the > phone with me answering questions I had and (he's an RV-6 offender) > explaining some of the techniques he used to set up a table for how many > / what size washers to use since it doesn't have an adjustable set holder. > > They apparently manufacture their yokes and rebuild their own squeezers > as well. They have a one year warranty on rivet guns and squeezers, > including rebuilt ones and also including return shipping. > > They have a pretty limited catalog, but they do have pretty much > anything you need for riveting ;) > > I'll let you all know how the tool itself turns out, but at this point I > would highly recommend doing business with them if you are in the market > for tools. > > Their website is http://clearairtools.com > > James > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:41 AM PST US From: "Robert Wright" Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert Wright" I think you should publish this letter. If more people were this sensible, the world would be a better place. Rob Wright's wife, a new private pilot -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" I second MOST of this. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Man that idiot in the 152 made a lot of enemies. This sort of thing in the link that Tim (the other Tim) gave, is truly the thing that makes this small, idiotic mistake, into a far-reaching, big, huge frigging mistake that will drastically affect us all. http://www.aero-news.net Oh, and Daley is the worlds largest idiot, by the way. Wayne, you can give up the thread of how big a threat the C152 is loaded with explosives....if you want to use that argument, then I think we owe it to the world to voluntarily give up our planes, and clear the skies. We owe it to the world to not allow trucks into cities or pouplation centers where there are more than 200 people per city block. We owe it to the world to close down international shipping, or at least produce offshore ship inspection centers that they must stop at, outside our US territorial waters for a complete inspection before continuing. We should close down mass transit. We should close all US stadiums and sporting events. For heaven's sake, what kind of self-respecting true american PATRIOT would allow their own CHILDREN to attend a pro-football game....that sh1t is DANGEROUS....letting them go into a stadium. Hell, even if there isn't a bomb, there's a crowd of drunk people who could trample them. The way I see it is, sure, EVERYTHING is a threat. But, almost everything is something that a terrorist can still get away with. How much of a chance do you give ANY one person in this world if someone else really wants them dead. I'd bet on the shooter every time. That being the case, I think people need to be realistic and just plain understand that there are absolutely no guarantees in life....and no matter how hard they try in Washington, the only have about 1% of what it takes to protect you. The rest is up to you to watch you back. Truck, bus, plane, train, rocket, or even little red wagon....anything can haul a weapon. Do I think we're going to be attacked again some day? Damn right I do...we keep whacking at the hornets nest every day. Do I really care to give up any freedoms to protect myself from that threat? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! We have no idea exactly what the threat IS, so we give up too much in life to try to fix all the holes. Did anyone else but me think that story made a ridiculous amount of headline news for what it really was? Did they count how many box vans, and trucks made it within 3 miles of the whitehouse? Did they count how many people wearing long overcoats, with suspicously large lumps under them, came within 1 mile of the whitehouse? Funny thing, that stinkin' grenade that was within 100' of the pres himself didn't make 10% of the headlines that this one tiny cessna 152, piloted by a (probably) rusty-skilled pilot did. Hmmmm, one thing is a real, actual, explosive. One is basically a rubber-band powered airplane. Wow, did I really just write all that? Time sure flies....I hope I can still fly by the time my RV-10 is done. I've probably NEVER been so paranoid about the future as I was on Sept. 12-14 when I realized that it was a real possibility that I'd maybe never be flying a small plane again. To me, if they take away our planes, we may as well haul out our shotguns and go on a march....because at that point, it went WAY too far. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > > > Check out the latest at www.aero-news.net . . . > > TDT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 1:42 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Wayne Edgerton" > > I had flown my last plane at almost 800 lbs over gross and that would equate > to a bunch of explosives. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:03 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace > > > >>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" >> >> >> >>What's the useful load of a C-152, compared to a SUV? >> >>TDT >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton >>Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:59 AM >>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >> >> >>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Wayne Edgerton" >> >> >>Unless it was loaded with explosives like the car bombs that are going off >>in IRAQ that destroy whole buildings. >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:02 AM >>Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >> >> >> >>I don't know what's sadder - two guys who can't navigate, and didn't >>notice >>this huge city below them, or evacuating the Capital because a C-152 was >>on >>its way. What would a -152 to if it hit the Capital? Make a soot mark >>and >>slide down the side? >> >>TDT >> >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint >>Sent: Thu 5/12/2005 8:26 AM >>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >> >> >> >>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" >> >>Well said! >> >>Jesse Saint >>I-TEC, Inc. >>jesse@itecusa.org >>www.itecusa.org >>W: 352-465-4545 >>C: 352-427-0285 >>F: 815-377-3694 >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AI Nut >>Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:16 PM >>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV10-List: plane flew into restricted airspace >> >>--> RV10-List message posted by: AI Nut >> >>Be very careful to assign blame to one's selves when the actual problem >>lies with over reaction from the security Nazi's. >> >>David >> >> >>son hoang wrote: >> >> >>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "son hoang" >>> >>>C 152 w/ 2 men on board violated no fly zone >>>White House and Congress evacuated >>>red level alert >>>stock market dived because of the security scare >>> >>>this incident made me angry, frustrated and very sad >>>I just shook my head in disbelief >>>there was much over reaction to the real threat >>>but if we GA pilots keep doing this we will lose any freedom we have to >> >>fly >> >>>who do we have to blame but ourselves ( or a few rotten ones among us) >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Bob Hodgson" >>>To: >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:05 PM >>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Mufflers on Rv's >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>==================================== >>==================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:50 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: good tool supplier... --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson You'll like having the adjustable set holder. Nice to be quickly able to adjust height and be nice and precise as to how much squeeze you want. Tim Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > Yeah, I know. I just have to bring myself to spend another $65 for it. > I'm sure it will happen but I thought I might try the washer idea first. > > Bill Britton > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* ddavis@virtual-corp.net > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2005 12:52 AM > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: good tool supplier... > > > fyi Cleaveland tools sells an adjustable set holder that you should > be able to use on your squeezer. > > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=SNSHA45 > > > Deems Davis > > emp 40406 > > > *"Bill and Tami Britton" >* > Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > > > 05/12/2005 08:37 PM > Please respond to > rv10-list@matronics.com > > > > To > > cc > > Subject > Re: RV10-List: good tool supplier... > > > > > > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" > > > James, I recently purchased a pneumatic squeezer without an > adjustable set > holder. Could you send the recommendations on how many washers to > use as > spacers for the different size rivets??? Also, I don't have any of the > washers but does anybody know their specs (can they be found locally > at a > hardware store or are they aviation specific)??? > > TIA > Bill Britton > RV-10 Emp #40137 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Ochs" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:28 PM > Subject: RV10-List: good tool supplier... > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs > > > > Hi All, > > > > Just got off the phone with clear air tools. I bought one of their > > rebuilt tandem squeezers off of ebay and called them to finish up the > > payment. I asked the gentleman who answered the phone if he was > > familiar with the particular model I bought and his response was > "yes, > > I'm the one who rebuilt it". He then spent the next 10 minutes > on the > > phone with me answering questions I had and (he's an RV-6 offender) > > explaining some of the techniques he used to set up a table for > how many > > / what size washers to use since it doesn't have an adjustable > set holder. > > > > They apparently manufacture their yokes and rebuild their own > squeezers > > as well. They have a one year warranty on rivet guns and squeezers, > > including rebuilt ones and also including return shipping. > > > > They have a pretty limited catalog, but they do have pretty much > > anything you need for riveting ;) > > > > I'll let you all know how the tool itself turns out, but at this > point I > > would highly recommend doing business with them if you are in the > market > > for tools. > > > > Their website is http://clearairtools.com > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:04 AM PST US From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Compressor --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" Rick to get your compressor to blow up just take a handful of sand and very carefully pour it into the oil reservoir, after a few days you will be able to justify a new compressor. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Compressor --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick That sounds like a great deal, I paid that much for my Costco Coleman special that is starting to drive me NUTS!! Don't think I can justify buying another right now though, will have to wait for the coleman to blow a gasket or something. Do not archive Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:24 AM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RV10-List: Wingtips Sorry to disrupt the nice flow of off-topic information. I am working on the wingtips and have been thinking about the little wingtip rib. The plans call for it to be flush with the inboard edge of the wingtip with the flange outboard (inside the wingtip). I hate the idea of hammering rivets on fiberglass and I hate using pop rivets. Does anybody see any reason why I cannot switch the ribs from right to left and have the flange inboard and use a squeezer to rivet it in? That is how the outboard rib is on the aileron, so I can't imagine it would make a lot of difference aesthetically or aerodynamically. Van's said that it would not make any difference structurally, which is fairly obvious. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Compressor --> RV10-List message posted by: "Droopy Erickson" Bob, that would assume Rick (and myself, I have the same compressor) had been smart enough not to buy an oilless compressor. I laughed when I saw Rick's post because I had been out in the shop working on deburring my last leading edge and kept hoping I wasn't imagining strange noises coming from the compressor. I really wish I had bought a bigger quieter compressor. Hopefully the useful lifespan of these things is a little over a year and I can get an excuse to buy a new one soon. Didn't Tim Olsen have one die a premature death? :) John #40208 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob.kaufmann Subject: RE: RV10-List: Compressor --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" Rick to get your compressor to blow up just take a handful of sand and very carefully pour it into the oil reservoir, after a few days you will be able to justify a new compressor. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Compressor --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick That sounds like a great deal, I paid that much for my Costco Coleman special that is starting to drive me NUTS!! Don't think I can justify buying another right now though, will have to wait for the coleman to blow a gasket or something. Do not archive Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:10 AM PST US From: "Mark Ritter" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:58 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips I have one thought, As much as we hate pop rivets, a hard rivets swells in the hole as it is being driven. In fiberglass the swelling is almost and often can be the start of a good crack. The pop rivets are mostly a clamping force use some good goo between the fiberglass and the rib and pop away knowing the pop rivets are there just to hold the thing in place wile the goo sets up. Like the idea of the reverse rib! Would make it easy to see just how good the pop rivets are doing. Noel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Wingtips Sorry to disrupt the nice flow of off-topic information. I am working on the wingtips and have been thinking about the little wingtip rib. The plans call for it to be flush with the inboard edge of the wingtip with the flange outboard (inside the wingtip). I hate the idea of hammering rivets on fiberglass and I hate using pop rivets. Does anybody see any reason why I cannot switch the ribs from right to left and have the flange inboard and use a squeezer to rivet it in? That is how the outboard rib is on the aileron, so I can't imagine it would make a lot of difference aesthetically or aerodynamically. Van's said that it would not make any difference structurally, which is fairly obvious. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips From: "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)" Solid rivets in composite parts are usually not a good idea. When the rivet expands in a metal part it actually cold works the hole improving its fatigue life. It is actually yielding and setting up residual tensile stresses around the perimeter of the hole which improve the fatigue life. If a solid rivet is used in a composite part there is a tendency for the expanding rivet to damage the perimeter of the hole as the composites do not yield like metal does, they simply fail. Thus you could end up with failed fibers around the perimeter of the hole which is usually not a good thing. I would be much more comfortable using the hollow (blind) rivets in composites as the expansion force is much smaller than that of solid rivets. Niko -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Wingtips Sorry to disrupt the nice flow of off-topic information. I am working on the wingtips and have been thinking about the little wingtip rib. The plans call for it to be flush with the inboard edge of the wingtip with the flange outboard (inside the wingtip). I hate the idea of hammering rivets on fiberglass and I hate using pop rivets. Does anybody see any reason why I cannot switch the ribs from right to left and have the flange inboard and use a squeezer to rivet it in? That is how the outboard rib is on the aileron, so I can't imagine it would make a lot of difference aesthetically or aerodynamically. Van's said that it would not make any difference structurally, which is fairly obvious. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:46 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Compressor --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Oh no, I myself didn't have one die a premature death. I have a very old cast iron compressor (small 20 gallon, 4 or 5 cfm) that still runs very well. When I started the kit, I also bought a brand new Campbell Hausfeld VT6271 220V 26 gallon (approx.) 10+ cfm compressor (probably the same pump on this one just posted last week), that is all cast iron too and fairly quiet. The failure was of a friends Craftsman oil free. His was REAL loud. It did last a few years, but he ended up borrowing my old one for quite a while until he could buy a nice one. If you read the google groups postings though, you'll see that if you want quiet and long life, oiled is the way to go. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE Droopy Erickson wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Droopy Erickson" > > Bob, that would assume Rick (and myself, I have the same compressor) had > been smart enough not to buy an oilless compressor. I laughed when I saw > Rick's post because I had been out in the shop working on deburring my > last leading edge and kept hoping I wasn't imagining strange noises > coming from the compressor. I really wish I had bought a bigger quieter > compressor. Hopefully the useful lifespan of these things is a little > over a year and I can get an excuse to buy a new one soon. Didn't Tim > Olsen have one die a premature death? :) > > John > #40208 Wings > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob.kaufmann > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 6:57 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Compressor > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" > > Rick to get your compressor to blow up just take a handful of sand and > very carefully pour it into the oil reservoir, after a few days you will > be able to justify a new compressor. > > Bob K > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:23 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Compressor > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick > > That sounds like a great deal, I paid that much for my Costco Coleman > special that is starting to drive me NUTS!! > Don't think I can justify buying another right now though, will have to > wait for the coleman to blow a gasket or something. > > Do not archive > > Rick S. > 40185 > Wings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:19 AM PST US d="scan'208"; a="927456367:sNHT14596732" From: James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Hey all! After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I have returned to conquer the VS! Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the skin. I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for now...) before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. What does everyone else think? -Jim 40384 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:47 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: RV10-List: Soft rivets We used the "soft" rivets (AN426A) when dealing with fiberglass surfaces. "Normal" AN426AD rivets have a more than double tensile strength of the "A". We have 250+ hrs and four years, no cracks or pull outs thus far. Go to page# 94 in the ACS catalog for more details. They were used on the hinge attachments to the cowl. We "glued" the hinges with epoxy resin at the same time we set the soft rivets and then covered the hinge with 'glass & resin after the rivet/glue was set up. We used them to mount nutplates also. They do squeeze with a lot less force (and less than the pressure required in "pop-rivets") and we used the hand squeezers wherever possible (less material stress than gun & bucking bar). KABONG (NOTE: message body was "trimmed" and in this case there was not "D0 N0t Arch1ve" (spelling) as I think this should be part of the archives BUT since the original post is also in the archive I trimmed the redundant parts. ----- Original Message ----- From: Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr) To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:53 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips Solid rivets in composite parts are usually not a good idea. When the rivet expands in a ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:28 AM PST US d="scan'208"; a="1001558222:sNHT19471104" From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Just alodine the rivet lines and leave the rest alone! The alclad on the rest of the skins will suffice, and if you put a layer of alodine over the rivet lines where you've drilled, c/s and will rivet, that takes care of that. My 2 cents as usual... Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Hey all! After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I have returned to conquer the VS! Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the skin. I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for now...) before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. What does everyone else think? -Jim 40384 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:11 AM PST US From: James Ochs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs Personally, I did the inside of the skin. I'm not using alodine, but a similar process from sanchem which uses a non-toxic permagnate and sealer instead of the alodine and primer. I'd hate to have to replace any of the parts due to corrosion. i just did the first half of riveting the VS skin to the frame and I think drilling out, or cutting and patching and then replacing the skin due to corrosion would just be an unpleasant experience ;) I've even been debating doing the outside of the skin with the permagnate because it is supposed to be highly corrosion resistant and a good base for primer. Or maybe I'll just do the normal primer and paint thing on the outside. I don't know yet. ADvice welcome ;) James #40400 2 hours left to go on the VS James Hein wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein > > Hey all! > After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country > for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I > have returned to conquer the VS! > > Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and > Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the > skin. I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for > now...) before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. > > What does everyone else think? > > -Jim 40384 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:24 AM PST US From: "Mani Ravee" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" Stein, do you cover the alclad skins with an epoxy primer? Mani Ravee, MD Indianapolis, KUMP #40339. N528AR -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Just alodine the rivet lines and leave the rest alone! The alclad on the rest of the skins will suffice, and if you put a layer of alodine over the rivet lines where you've drilled, c/s and will rivet, that takes care of that. My 2 cents as usual... Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Hey all! After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I have returned to conquer the VS! Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the skin. I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for now...) before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. What does everyone else think? -Jim 40384 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:13 AM PST US From: "Mani Ravee" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" Jim, I spray the acid prep from a spry bottle and rub it around with a scotch pad - green. Wash and spray the alodine. Sometimes use a roller (paint foam) to wet the area over and over for about 5 min. Then use the AKZO primer. Mani Ravee, MD Indianapolis, KUMP #40339. N528AR -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Hey all! After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I have returned to conquer the VS! Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the skin. I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for now...) before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. What does everyone else think? -Jim 40384 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips From: "Randy DeBauw" No reason you can't switch them Jesse. Just make sure you swap sides if you change them. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Wingtips Sorry to disrupt the nice flow of off-topic information. I am working on the wingtips and have been thinking about the little wingtip rib. The plans call for it to be flush with the inboard edge of the wingtip with the flange outboard (inside the wingtip). I hate the idea of hammering rivets on fiberglass and I hate using pop rivets. Does anybody see any reason why I cannot switch the ribs from right to left and have the flange inboard and use a squeezer to rivet it in? That is how the outboard rib is on the aileron, so I can't imagine it would make a lot of difference aesthetically or aerodynamically. Van's said that it would not make any difference structurally, which is fairly obvious. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:48 AM PST US From: Dj Merrill Subject: RV10-List: rattle can primer --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill I've heard there are some decent rattle can Self Etching Primers. Anyone know of a good source where I can do some research, and possible product sources in the Raleigh, NC area? I'd like to at least evaluate the possibility, primer-wars aside... Thanks, -Dj ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:05 PM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: RV10-List: Wing Root Connector --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens Randy, I think I remember from the old Yahoo groups you mentioning the part number for the connector you use at the wing root. But, alas I cannot find it in the archives. Go figure. Looks like something I want to do, so if you get a chance, could you post the part number? Thanks... -Sean #40303 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:27 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: AOA installation From: "Droopy Erickson" Hey all, Just wondering for those that have installed the AOA (Pro or Sport) system. Was it easier to install before riveting the leading edge together, after riveting but before attaching to the wing, or after it's completely installed? Also, did you install an access panel similiar to the one called out for Van's stall warning vane? Thanks, John (breathing epoxy primer fumes today...) #40208 Wings ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:36 PM PST US d="scan'208"; a="1108272896:sNHT496617558" From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" I like many people did prime my 1st RV, but like the same may people haven't on my next RV. I just alodine the rivet lines or anywhere else I scratch, drill, polish, etc.. I think you'll find putting the primer on doesn't hurt anything, it just adds weight, time, and money to cover up something that is already protected by the alclad. That being said, if you remove the alclad you need to cover it with something! Also, instead of using messy buckets/bins/tanks for the alodine (which others have pointed out to be somewhat toxic), it's now pretty popular just to buy one of those nifty "Alodine Pens", which looks like a giant felt tip marker, and contains Alodine in it. No messy dipping, rinsing, disposal of waste, etc... Just run the pen over the rivet lines or the part you need to cover, let it dry and you're done. The alodine pens have been used for years at the airlines, boeing, the military, NASA, etc...... Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mani Ravee Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" Stein, do you cover the alclad skins with an epoxy primer? Mani Ravee, MD Indianapolis, KUMP #40339. N528AR -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Just alodine the rivet lines and leave the rest alone! The alclad on the rest of the skins will suffice, and if you put a layer of alodine over the rivet lines where you've drilled, c/s and will rivet, that takes care of that. My 2 cents as usual... Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Hey all! After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I have returned to conquer the VS! Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the skin. I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for now...) before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. What does everyone else think? -Jim 40384 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wing Root Connector From: "Randy DeBauw" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" The AMP connectors were supplied by www.Aerocraftparts.com. I don't know the part number but Tony can supply you with that and should have them in stock. Also Tim bought them for his wings from some other mail order place and I am sure he can send you the info. They supplied the connectors with bulkhead side on the wing. You can look at my photos and see the plate I made to hold the fitting. I think I would put the bulkhead fitting on the fuse not the wing. As it turned out other than making the bracket to hold the bulkhead fitting I really liked the way the wing/fuse connection came put. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: RV10-List: Wing Root Connector --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens Randy, I think I remember from the old Yahoo groups you mentioning the part number for the connector you use at the wing root. But, alas I cannot find it in the archives. Go figure. Looks like something I want to do, so if you get a chance, could you post the part number? Thanks... -Sean #40303 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:15 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA installation From: "Randy DeBauw" Look at my photos on Tim's site. I showed how I ran the tubing. I installed the AOA just before paint. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Droopy Erickson Subject: RV10-List: AOA installation Hey all, Just wondering for those that have installed the AOA (Pro or Sport) system. Was it easier to install before riveting the leading edge together, after riveting but before attaching to the wing, or after it's completely installed? Also, did you install an access panel similiar to the one called out for Van's stall warning vane? Thanks, John (breathing epoxy primer fumes today...) #40208 Wings ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:52 PM PST US From: Larry Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Where can you get the Alodine pens from? Larry Stein Bruch wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >I like many people did prime my 1st RV, but like the same may people haven't >on my next RV. I just alodine the rivet lines or anywhere else I scratch, >drill, polish, etc.. I think you'll find putting the primer on doesn't hurt >anything, it just adds weight, time, and money to cover up something that is >already protected by the alclad. That being said, if you remove the alclad >you need to cover it with something! > >Also, instead of using messy buckets/bins/tanks for the alodine (which >others have pointed out to be somewhat toxic), it's now pretty popular just >to buy one of those nifty "Alodine Pens", which looks like a giant felt tip >marker, and contains Alodine in it. No messy dipping, rinsing, disposal of >waste, etc... Just run the pen over the rivet lines or the part you need to >cover, let it dry and you're done. The alodine pens have been used for years >at the airlines, boeing, the military, NASA, etc...... > > >Cheers, >Stein. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mani Ravee >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:35 PM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi >Masters..... > > >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" > >Stein, do you cover the alclad skins with an epoxy primer? > >Mani Ravee, MD >Indianapolis, KUMP >#40339. N528AR > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:01 PM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi >Masters..... > >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >Just alodine the rivet lines and leave the rest alone! The alclad on the >rest of the skins will suffice, and if you put a layer of alodine over the >rivet lines where you've drilled, c/s and will rivet, that takes care of >that. > >My 2 cents as usual... > >Cheers, >Stein. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 12:24 PM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi >Masters..... > > >--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein > >Hey all! > After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country >for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I have >returned to conquer the VS! > > Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and >Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the skin. >I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for now...) >before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. > > What does everyone else think? > >-Jim 40384 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:55 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA installation From: "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)" I installed it after riveting the leading edge together but before attaching it to the rest of the wing. This allows access from the back end of the leading edge. Niko -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Droopy Erickson Subject: RV10-List: AOA installation Hey all, Just wondering for those that have installed the AOA (Pro or Sport) system. Was it easier to install before riveting the leading edge together, after riveting but before attaching to the wing, or after it's completely installed? Also, did you install an access panel similiar to the one called out for Van's stall warning vane? Thanks, John (breathing epoxy primer fumes today...) #40208 Wings ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA installation From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Install after the leading edge is riveted, doesn't make any difference whether already attached to wing or not. No need for an access panel - the pressure taps go in the outboard bay and are reachable through the lightening holes in the outboard rib with the wingtip off. Bob -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: AOA installation Hey all, Just wondering for those that have installed the AOA (Pro or Sport) system. Was it easier to install before riveting the leading edge together, after riveting but before attaching to the wing, or after it's completely installed? Also, did you install an access panel similiar to the one called out for Van's stall warning vane? Thanks, John (breathing epoxy primer fumes today...) #40208 Wings ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:31 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips You can also use soft solid rivets. Thank You Ray Doerr CDNI Principal Engineer Sprint PCS 16020 West 113th Street Lenexa, KS 66219 Mailstop KSLNXK0101 (913) 859-1414 (Office) (913) 226-0106 (Pcs) (913) 859-1234 (Fax) Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel & Yoshie Simmons Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips I have one thought, As much as we hate pop rivets, a hard rivets swells in the hole as it is being driven. In fiberglass the swelling is almost and often can be the start of a good crack. The pop rivets are mostly a clamping force use some good goo between the fiberglass and the rib and pop away knowing the pop rivets are there just to hold the thing in place wile the goo sets up. Like the idea of the reverse rib! Would make it easy to see just how good the pop rivets are doing. Noel ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Wingtips Sorry to disrupt the nice flow of off-topic information. I am working on the wingtips and have been thinking about the little wingtip rib. The plans call for it to be flush with the inboard edge of the wingtip with the flange outboard (inside the wingtip). I hate the idea of hammering rivets on fiberglass and I hate using pop rivets. Does anybody see any reason why I cannot switch the ribs from right to left and have the flange inboard and use a squeezer to rivet it in? That is how the outboard rib is on the aileron, so I can't imagine it would make a lot of difference aesthetically or aerodynamically. Van's said that it would not make any difference structurally, which is fairly obvious. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:21 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Ray: Can we contact you when we're having cell phone problems? : ) Do not archive TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips You can also use soft solid rivets. Thank You Ray Doerr CDNI Principal Engineer Sprint PCS 16020 West 113th Street Lenexa, KS 66219 Mailstop KSLNXK0101 (913) 859-1414 (Office) (913) 226-0106 (Pcs) (913) 859-1234 (Fax) Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel & Yoshie Simmons Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wingtips I have one thought, As much as we hate pop rivets, a hard rivets swells in the hole as it is being driven. In fiberglass the swelling is almost and often can be the start of a good crack. The pop rivets are mostly a clamping force use some good goo between the fiberglass and the rib and pop away knowing the pop rivets are there just to hold the thing in place wile the goo sets up. Like the idea of the reverse rib! Would make it easy to see just how good the pop rivets are doing. Noel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Wingtips Sorry to disrupt the nice flow of off-topic information. I am working on the wingtips and have been thinking about the little wingtip rib. The plans call for it to be flush with the inboard edge of the wingtip with the flange outboard (inside the wingtip). I hate the idea of hammering rivets on fiberglass and I hate using pop rivets. Does anybody see any reason why I cannot switch the ribs from right to left and have the flange inboard and use a squeezer to rivet it in? That is how the outboard rib is on the aileron, so I can't imagine it would make a lot of difference aesthetically or aerodynamically. Van's said that it would not make any difference structurally, which is fairly obvious. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:28 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV10-List: rattle can primer --> RV10-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > I've heard there are some decent rattle >can Self Etching Primers. Anyone know of >a good source where I can do some research, and >possible product sources in the Raleigh, NC area? >I'd like to at least evaluate the possibility, >primer-wars aside... > >Thanks, > >-Dj Marhyde and SEM are my favorites. Use SEM mostly now. Seems to be on the local paint shop shelf more consistently than Marhyde. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:57 PM PST US d="scan'208"; a="921666101:sNHT20573504" From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" I'm almost afraid to write this, because undoubtedly I'll get some scathing message off list from someone accusing me of "stumping" or using the list for commercial purposes. So......to be fair, here's where I know you can get the Alodine Pens: Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and SteinAir. Prices vary by $5-10 between suppliers, and these things aren't cheap. Pricing is from $45-$55 each, but one pen should be nearly enough for an RV. Whether or not you choose to prime, every metal plane builder should still have one of these in their toolbox. Cheers, Stein. Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi Masters..... --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Where can you get the Alodine pens from? Larry Stein Bruch wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >I like many people did prime my 1st RV, but like the same may people haven't >on my next RV. I just alodine the rivet lines or anywhere else I scratch, >drill, polish, etc.. I think you'll find putting the primer on doesn't hurt >anything, it just adds weight, time, and money to cover up something that is >already protected by the alclad. That being said, if you remove the alclad >you need to cover it with something! > >Also, instead of using messy buckets/bins/tanks for the alodine (which >others have pointed out to be somewhat toxic), it's now pretty popular just >to buy one of those nifty "Alodine Pens", which looks like a giant felt tip >marker, and contains Alodine in it. No messy dipping, rinsing, disposal of >waste, etc... Just run the pen over the rivet lines or the part you need to >cover, let it dry and you're done. The alodine pens have been used for years >at the airlines, boeing, the military, NASA, etc...... > > >Cheers, >Stein. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mani Ravee >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:35 PM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi >Masters..... > > >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" > >Stein, do you cover the alclad skins with an epoxy primer? > >Mani Ravee, MD >Indianapolis, KUMP >#40339. N528AR > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:01 PM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi >Masters..... > >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >Just alodine the rivet lines and leave the rest alone! The alclad on the >rest of the skins will suffice, and if you put a layer of alodine over the >rivet lines where you've drilled, c/s and will rivet, that takes care of >that. > >My 2 cents as usual... > >Cheers, >Stein. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 12:24 PM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Skins? Advice needed from the Jedi >Masters..... > > >--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein > >Hey all! > After being kidnapped (by my employer) and being out of the country >for a week and a half to fix a problem with one of out suppliers, I have >returned to conquer the VS! > > Okay, in all seriousness, I have this morning did the Alumiprep and >Alodine routine on all the VS parts, except for the inside of the skin. >I think I should at least give it a sponge bath (inside only for now...) >before priming with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. > > What does everyone else think? > >-Jim 40384 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:10 PM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: RV10-List: rattle can primer --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" Sherwin Williams 988 is very good stuff for a "rattle can". Special nozzle that sprays very well. Available at Car Quest or same from Napa packaged as 7220(?) by SW under the Martin Senor brand name. All the same stuff just different can. Dupont just released a new self-etching primer 4115SS which looks like a zinc oxide base. It appears to work well (just used some this afternoon). My favorite is the SW 988. All available from any auto refinish supplier and there are plenty in Raleigh. This is great stuff to have around the shop for small parts when you don't want to mix two parts etc. Some folks use it for almost everything. Bill S 7a Ark fuse/panel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dj Merrill Subject: RV10-List: rattle can primer --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill I've heard there are some decent rattle can Self Etching Primers. Anyone know of a good source where I can do some research, and possible product sources in the Raleigh, NC area? I'd like to at least evaluate the possibility, primer-wars aside... Thanks, -Dj ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:26 PM PST US From: "Robert G. Wright" Subject: RE: RV10-List: WTB: Here's my follow up to this. I ordered the 3/32 and the 1/8 Burraways on Wednesday (make sure you get the neutral blade for aluminum) from SC. They arrived in Enterprise, AL this evening, Friday via ground UPS. Cost was somewhere around $75 for both parts, not sure what shipping was. Can't wait to try them out on the VS skin tomorrow. Rob Wright 40392 VS skeleton and skin clecoed _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Subject: RE: RV10-List: WTB: Cogsdill Tool Products, Inc. PO Box 7007 Camden, SC 29020-7007 803-438-4000 or 803-438-5263 Email cogsdill@cogsdill.com Catalog # 100 U.S. 1-04, "Burraway" Pages 6-11 John Cox _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Subject: RE: RV10-List: WTB: Where did you get your Burraway tool? Rene' -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: WTB: Deburring is much more pleasant with the Cogsdill Burraway tool. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On May 10, 2005, at 10:57 AM, Rene Felker wrote: I agree, I will swap dimpling for debur any day....of course I am just starting on my wings. Rene' N423CF 40322 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee Subject: RE: RV10-List: WTB: Actually, I did not mind the dimpling at all. Its the tedious deburring of the holes which get me. I really hate that. Mani Rick wrote: ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:22 PM PST US From: William Curtis Subject: RV10-List: RE: Rivet squeezer washers You will find an AN-960 washer is about 1/16 of an inch thick. I find that with 1 washer you can squeeze a -6 rivet, with 2 a -5 and with 3, a -4 rivet. I have a thin 1/32 washer that I use to get the extra .5 for the -3.5 rivet. William Curtis 40237 - wings ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:49 PM PST US From: William Curtis Subject: RV10-List: RE: Wing Root Connector See below pdf for the part numbers on the AMP CPC connectors used on the wing root. The plug is used on the wing and the square flang male receptacle is used on the fuselage. The listed part numbers can be ordered from Mouser Electronics , much cheaper than Aerotronics. http://members.core.com/~wcurtis/RV/RV10Electrical_v3b.pdf William ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:34 PM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Wing Root Connector --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens Thanks for the info... Do Not Archive William Curtis wrote: > See below pdf for the part numbers on the AMP CPC connectors used on > the wing root. The plug is used on the wing and the square flang male > receptacle is used on the fuselage. The listed part numbers can be > ordered from Mouser Electronics , much cheaper than Aerotronics. > > http://members.core.com/~wcurtis/RV/RV10Electrical_v3b.pdf > > > William