---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/25/05: 47 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (Rob Kermanj) 2. 12:18 AM - stupid compressor tricks (James Ochs) 3. 12:18 AM - Flap mounting holes () 4. 12:18 AM - Re: Randy's First Flight Video by Bruce (Jim Combs) 5. 12:20 AM - Re: Alternator? (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com) 6. 12:37 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 7. 04:52 AM - Re: Flap mounting holes (Tim Olson) 8. 04:55 AM - Re: Re: Flap Motor (Tim Olson) 9. 04:58 AM - Re: Which bucking bar (Tim Olson) 10. 05:35 AM - Re: Flap mounting holes (Rick) 11. 05:35 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (Bill and Tami Britton) 12. 05:45 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (bob.kaufmann) 13. 05:53 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (Mark Grieve) 14. 06:04 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (Darton Steve) 15. 06:07 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (Bill and Tami Britton) 16. 06:23 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (Nikolaos Napoli) 17. 06:24 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (Tim Olson) 18. 06:53 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (Dan Checkoway) 19. 06:58 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 20. 07:11 AM - Re: Which bucking bar (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 21. 07:18 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 22. 07:29 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (Randy DeBauw) 23. 07:30 AM - Re: Flap mounting holes (Randy DeBauw) 24. 07:33 AM - Re: milestone #1 (John Jessen) 25. 07:38 AM - Re: milestone #1 (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Jessen) 26. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: Flap Motor (Jim Combs) 27. 09:50 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (James Ochs) 28. 10:11 AM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (Scott Schmidt) 29. 10:42 AM - Instrument Flightschool overstock sale (Aircraft Technical Book Company) 30. 10:49 AM - Re: Which bucking bar (matronix.rv10@4sythe.com) 31. 11:36 AM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders (William Curtis) 32. 12:38 PM - Re: Flap mounting holes (Dave & Brenda Emond) 33. 02:16 PM - Re: Which bucking bar (Albert Gardner) 34. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Capacitance fuel senders (Wentz, Don) 35. 02:31 PM - Oxygen systems (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 36. 02:50 PM - Re: Oxygen systems (John Jessen) 37. 04:10 PM - Re: Oxygen systems (Brcue Patton) 38. 05:35 PM - Re: Which bucking bar (JOHN STARN) 39. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Alternator? (McGANN, Ron) 40. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: Flap Motor (Richard Sipp) 41. 08:26 PM - Re: Alternator? (Garmin install manuals) (William Curtis) 42. 08:38 PM - Re: stupid compressor tricks (NYTerminat@aol.com) 43. 09:09 PM - Re: Which bucking bar () 44. 09:12 PM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders () 45. 09:17 PM - Re: Flap mounting holes () 46. 09:24 PM - Re: stupid compressor tricks () 47. 10:58 PM - Re: RV10--List: Capacitance fuel senders (Dan Benua) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:11 AM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: Rob Kermanj I have a old fashion fuel sender in my RV6 and found that if coupled with vans gages, it works very well. It is consistent and accurate at vans gauge markings. Rob. On May 24, 2005, at 1:48 PM, James Ochs wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs > > My (limited) experience with float sensors has pretty much been in > Cessna's and my conclusion is that it's probably better not to have > fuel gauges at all. They stick, they read the wrong values, they move > around so much that the reading is pretty much useless. If the tank is > too full they read empty (this is a behaviour I've noticed in the post > 2000 models they have at my local FBO). All kinds of stupid. I think > they took it to heart when the FAA said the only place it needs to be > accurate is at 0 (which is pretty dumb if you ask me) > > When I get to the point of putting together my tanks, panel and engine > there will be fuel flow / totalizer all that good stuff + fuel gauges. > I also generally dip the tanks if there is any question about how much > fuel is in there on a visual inspection because I am really anal about > fuel... I also tend to be a bit obsessive-compulsive about measuring > devices... if it ain't accurate, whats the point? > > But that's just me ;) > > BTW, I emailed vans about the plates for the -10 and they said: > > they are in the engineering 'hopper' at this time but we don't have a > definitive target date. I'd guess at least a couple months. van's > > James > > John Jessen wrote: > >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" >> >> Question: Why use capacitance over float? Other than some degree of >> accuracy? Why not go with something more fool proof, such as a dip >> stick? >> Then use fuel flow? In short, wouldn't floats be "accurate enough?" >> Read >> that as accurate enough to indicate full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 and empty? >> John Jessen >> -> Emp (2%) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs >> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 4:01 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders >> >>  >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs >> >> Hi All, >> >> I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find any >> definitive >> solutions in the previous posts... I'd prefer capacitance fuel >> senders to >> floats for my 10, and as I'm getting ready to order the wings I'm >> trying to >> figure out what to do about it. Has anyone put any in their 10 yet? >> Any >> ideas? Should I just go with one of the probe type with the >> concentric tubes >> as opposed to waiting for the plates for the 10? Anyone heard from >> vans >> recently on this issue? >> >> Thanks, >> James >> #40400 >> >> -- >> There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to >> throw >> yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers >> Guide to >> the Galaxy' >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to > throw yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The > Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:35 AM PST US From: "James Ochs" Subject: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks Hi all, I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and have a couple of questions about what it=92s doing=85 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. It=92s a crappy valve that is about =BD=94 in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a way to replace it with something that works a bit better? 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days I=92ve noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with suspended rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I should be worried about? 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it is done draining? You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention in the tank :P Thanks all=85 James #40400 Just completed prosealing the rudder=85. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:39 AM PST US From: Subject: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes I mounted the left flap tonight and found the holes in the flap hinge, the portion that attaches to the wing has a larger hole than the flap brackets (AN-4 bolt) that are on the flap itself. I referenced the plans and could not find if it gets bushed anywhere. Is this normal for anyone else? I can't believe that this is the way it should be for final assembly. The wings plans don't indicate to drill out those brackets only to deburr the holes. I can't imagine I drilled them larger at some point for no reason. Rick S. 40185 Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Bruce, don't worry I picked up the slack watching when you left. Randy has still not eaten much. Pulling the plane out then back between thundershowers was a hoot. Tim James flying GIB with Rob Hickman in Robs RV-4 have captured some inspirational inflight Aircraft to Aircraft video. Rob and Randy are downloading the data points from the ACS2500 right now. Way too cool. The smell of the new engine is a unique memory. Digital video will be forwarded to Tim Olson for final presentation after Randy gets dinner. Went out again this afternoon. The absolute kick in the pants was asking Randy to pull up at VANS when he got back from his hour and a half run dodging the cells. Dick was coming out of the building to jump in the RV-9 and head home. He did a big U turn back into the building and out came the entire staff to give Randy and his family kudos they so richly deserve for completing the entire aircraft and making sure every single system worked. No high speed passes with this owner. Still digitals images of the event will be sent to Tim as well. I have to get my wet clothes off and change into something dry... But they say it's a warm rain here this time of year. John Cox - KUAO From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BBreckenridge@att.net Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:55 PM To: RV10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Ok, like this is really driving me crazy. I'm only now, 5 hours later, starting to "feel normal" again. I can't imagine how Randy feels!! I mean, he probably won't tell you about his restless night, getting up at 4:30am, not eating a good breakfast, etc... so, I am. He spent some family time around the lunch hour with plans to do some more flying while the weather was clear. He's probably still out there flying around incoming cells. It was an exhilarating experience to be there. As many have said before, keep pounding those rivets -you're in for the ride of your life!! Bruce Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:58 AM PST US From: "Jim Combs" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Randy's First Flight Video by Bruce --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" OUTSTANDING! I love the comment after the most excellent landing! "That's One!" So calm, collected! The teamwork and the assist from the chase plane - Way good! And the many thanks for all the work in making the movie video's and getting them posted! Congratulations! Job(s) well done to all. Jim Combs #40192 - Fuselage (Almost, still a little to do on the fuel tanks!) Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:33 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: RE: Alternator? If I remember, you want to have the boss mount for the RV-10. I originally ordered the alternator from Van's but found out that the Van's alternator is a rebuilt automotive alternator. I also found out that the controller that B&C sells won't work with it. The more I have talked with people who have used the Van's alternator the less confident I was. The Van's alternator has a return value of $160 and the B&C costs $595 (I think). Anyway, you can call B&C and they will be able to tell you. Are you planning on using a B&C or other brand? Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: Alternator? Browsing around, what's the difference between "case mount" and "boss mount" alternators? And is there a difference between different IO-540 models, or are they all one or the other? TDT 40025 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" We've got some capactive probes from Skysports (http://www.airstuff.com/fuelmon.html). We haven't tested them out yet, but here's hoping! Skysports will do custom lengths and custome "bendable" sections. We got 8 inches bendable, then 8 inches of measuring. Skysports will also custom tweak the output circuit for you to be resistive, voltage, etc., for your particular output range (within reason). I think ours were $75 each. The above webpage has lots of info. Ours bend down from the entry point, then bend back up and run diagonally across the width of the first bay of the tank. TDT 40025 still waiting on a friggin' Finish Kit! ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of James Ochs Subject: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs Hi All, I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find any definitive solutions in the previous posts... I'd prefer capacitance fuel senders to floats for my 10, and as I'm getting ready to order the wings I'm trying to figure out what to do about it. Has anyone put any in their 10 yet? Any ideas? Should I just go with one of the probe type with the concentric tubes as opposed to waiting for the plates for the 10? Anyone heard from vans recently on this issue? Thanks, James #40400 -- There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:43 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Those get bushings. I couldn't insert and attach them yet because you have to put them in after the bottom skin is on and complete. They're pressed in bushings, so you don't want to take them in and out if un-necessary. Remember the plans revisions that show the bushings?? Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ricksked@earthlink.net wrote: > I mounted the left flap tonight and found the holes in the flap hinge, > the portion that attaches to the wing has a larger hole than the flap > brackets (AN-4 bolt) that are on the flap itself. I referenced the plans > and could not find if it gets bushed anywhere. Is this normal for anyone > else? I can't believe that this is the way it should be for final > assembly. The wings plans don't indicate to drill out those brackets > only to deburr the holes. I can't imagine I drilled them larger at some > point for no reason. > > Rick S. > 40185 > Wings > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* John W. Cox > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 6:06 PM > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 > > Bruce, dont worry I picked up the slack watching when you left. > Randy has still not eaten much. Pulling the plane out then back > between thundershowers was a hoot. Tim James flying GIB with Rob > Hickman in Robs RV-4 have captured some inspirational inflight > Aircraft to Aircraft video. Rob and Randy are downloading the data > points from the ACS2500 right now. Way too cool. The smell of the > new engine is a unique memory. Digital video will be forwarded to > Tim Olson for final presentation after Randy gets dinner. > > > > Went out again this afternoon. The absolute kick in the pants was > asking Randy to pull up at VANS when he got back from his hour and a > half run dodging the cells. Dick was coming out of the building to > jump in the RV-9 and head home. He did a big U turn back into the > building and out came the entire staff to give Randy and his family > kudos they so richly deserve for completing the entire aircraft and > making sure every single system worked. No high speed passes with > this owner. Still digitals images of the event will be sent to Tim > as well. > > > > I have to get my wet clothes off and change into something dry.. > But they say its a warm rain here this time of year. > > > > John Cox - KUAO > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *BBreckenridge@att.net > *Sent:* Friday, May 20, 2005 3:55 PM > *To:* RV10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 > > > > **Ok, like this is really driving me crazy. I'm only now, 5 hours > later, starting to "feel normal" again. I can't imagine how Randy > feels!! I mean, he probably won't tell you about his restless > night, getting up at 4:30am, not eating a good breakfast, etc... so, > I am. He spent some family time around the lunch hour with plans to > do some more flying while the weather was clear. He's probably > still out there flying around incoming cells. It was an > exhilarating experience to be there. As many have said before, keep > pounding those rivets -you're in for the ride of your life!!** > > > > **Bruce** > > > > **Do not archive** > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:36 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Flap Motor --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson OOoooooh no. I wouldn't risk that motor burning out... Increasing the voltage on a motor will change things fairly drastically. What I would do is to get that stepped down with a simple regulator circuit. I'm betting there are 3-pin regulators out there that could either handle the load themselves, or maybe a group of 3 or 4 could do it. Probably would only cost a few bucks. Why don't you throw this question to the aero-electric list. You'll get some well-educated lessons from them. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > For various reasons, we're going to have a 24 V bus system in our -10, which can be a pain sometimes, like with the 12 V flap motor. > > For the short duration that the Flap motor runs, what about the crazy idea of just going ahead and running that sucker on 24 volts? Might speed up the Flap deployment, too. Or is that just a stupid way to burn out the motor? > > While we're on the subject, is anyone doing a simple limit-switch "one-touch" flap retraction arrangement? Where are you mounting the limit switch? On the flaps themselves, or is there any way to do it on the flap motor or actuator assembly? > > TDT > 40025 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:25 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which bucking bar --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson That special bucking bar starts coming in when you rivet the elevator skins to the rear of the elevator spar. The 2 skins are facing you like 2 big reed valves, and you need a bar that can get in between them and get down on the rivets. With 2 people, that part of the construction went really well for me. I don't think it was for the nose ribs. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > Which bucking bar are you guys using for the HS-905 nose ribs on the > HS??? Is this where the special RV-10 bucking bar comes into play??? > > TIA > Bill Britton > RV-10 Emp #40137 > Riveting HS ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:25 AM PST US From: Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Yup...I found, knew that something had to be missing,, Thanks Timmy!! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:27 AM PST US spamd3.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_4 Message came from 63.163.37-39.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines From: "Bill and Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" Bob, I guess I'm not familiar with totalizers. Could you explain them further. How do they differ from the senders??? Bill Britton RV-10 Emp #40137 ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" > > James > > I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. After a > short learning session, they will be more accurate than either type of fuel > sender.. > Bob K > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:01 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs > > Hi All, > > I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find any definitive > solutions in the previous posts... I'd prefer capacitance fuel senders > to floats for my 10, and as I'm getting ready to order the wings I'm > trying to figure out what to do about it. Has anyone put any in their 10 > yet? Any ideas? Should I just go with one of the probe type with the > concentric tubes as opposed to waiting for the plates for the 10? Anyone > heard from vans recently on this issue? > > Thanks, > James > #40400 > > -- > There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw > yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to > the Galaxy' > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:16 AM PST US From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" They attach inline in the fuel system and measure the fuel that goes by. I little chip in the controls actually train the totalizer in burn rate and fuel remaining. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" Bob, I guess I'm not familiar with totalizers. Could you explain them further. How do they differ from the senders??? Bill Britton RV-10 Emp #40137 ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" > > James > > I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. After a > short learning session, they will be more accurate than either type of fuel > sender.. > Bob K > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:01 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs > > Hi All, > > I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find any definitive > solutions in the previous posts... I'd prefer capacitance fuel senders > to floats for my 10, and as I'm getting ready to order the wings I'm > trying to figure out what to do about it. Has anyone put any in their 10 > yet? Any ideas? Should I just go with one of the probe type with the > concentric tubes as opposed to waiting for the plates for the 10? Anyone > heard from vans recently on this issue? > > Thanks, > James > #40400 > > -- > There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw > yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to > the Galaxy' > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:39 AM PST US From: Mark Grieve Subject: Re: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks James, I would start with replacing the drain valve. I have a 60 gallon upright that cost $400 but it came with the standard $.25 valve. Useless! You should be able to unthread the valve to get it out of the tank. Take that piece to the plumbing department to match the pipe size and pick up a street elbow, 6 inch nipple and ball valve for that size pipe. It is probably 1/4 inch. Thread the pieces all together using the pipe sealant of your choice and it should be very easy to drain the tank. Additional pieces may be added to direct the discharge into a catch basin. If you want to get really fancy, I believe that Grainger carries a valve that burps the tank drain every time the motor kicks in. I think I need one, of course, but they are a bit pricey. The next compressor.... in the next shop.... Here is another idea. Go to this site http://www.tptools.com/ and search for compressor drain. They list one with a pull cord. I have never seen one but it sounds interesting. The quantity of discharge sounds excessive and I am wondering where you live. Hawaii? Portland? Here in Illinois it is very humid in the summer and I don't get all that much condensation. I drain my compressor at the start of use only because that is when I remember to do it. Warm air will hold more moisture then cold so waiting till the next session may yield even more discharge. The orange tint means the tank is rusting which is going to happen with unprotected steel in the presence of moisture. The tank will eventually rust through and, compared to a replacement compressor, the cost won't be worth it. Not sure what you can do here. There is a sealant available for steel fuel tanks and that might work. Should you worry? Yes, but only at the level that you worry about your roof wearing out. Perhaps others have some good ideas here. Once you replumb the valve, just open it until you get a steady stream of air. Drain it again before you shut off the lights if you like. Mark 7 empennage James Ochs wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and > have a couple of questions about what it's doing... > > > > 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. It's a crappy > valve that is about " in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have > to get the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is > there a way to replace it with something that works a bit better? > > 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I > drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days > I've noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with > suspended rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I > should be worried about? > > 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when > it is done draining? > > > > You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an > airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a > good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention > in the tank :P > > > > Thanks all... > > > > James > > #40400 > > Just completed prosealing the rudder.... > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:12 AM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=RrQSYgFt66CEjhhvGquZ+4YJj9cDpputCsB4+UfjuYqoQczcIhl3GL9LddC9/V1aI7PmOSvyJlI5qeDWtApcOiCsYtNtRCf57UP3wnAVEE3cTQcevEGUaIQUqSJbUjxwF9fK7fmiQ1aVtMA/y39CL3NVj+IMJuNCBChZ4xWUOBY= ; From: Darton Steve Subject: Re: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve James, The rusty water is normal and is just a byproduct of compressing the moisture out of the ambient air. I installed an automatic drain on my compressor tank, it opens briefly each time the compressor cycles. It is easy to install and was about $10 from Harbor Freight. Steve 40212 wings --- James Ochs wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I have one of those craftsman compressors with the > 26 gallon tank and have a > couple of questions about what its doing > > > > 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. > Its a crappy valve > that is about in diameter and no ears, and I > sometimes have to get the > channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this > normal? Is there a way to > replace it with something that works a bit better? > > 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it > when I drain it. I drain > it every day when I am done with it, and the last > couple of days Ive > noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color > with suspended rust > particles in it. Is this normal or is it something > I should be worried > about? > > 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or > closing it when it is > done draining? > > > > You would think that if it is possible for someone > to build an airplane in > their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to > put a good drain valve > on the compressor and do some kind of rust > prevention in the tank :P > > > > Thanks all > > > > James > > #40400 > > Just completed prosealing the rudder. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:27 AM PST US spamd2.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_4 Message came from 63.163.37-39.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines From: "Bill and Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" These would be hooked up to your fuel computer, right??? So, if a guy wanted you could have the totalizer and either the float or capacitance senders hooked up to gauges since the totalizer has nothing to do with the fuel quantity gauges, right??? Sorry for the beginner questions. My SB wing's on it's way in about a month and a half and I'm just trying to get a feel for what I'm going to be needing. I did order the float senders from Vans when I ordered the kit. Bill Britton ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" > > They attach inline in the fuel system and measure the fuel that goes by. I > little chip in the controls actually train the totalizer in burn rate and > fuel remaining. > > Bob K > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami > Britton > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:35 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" > > Bob, I guess I'm not familiar with totalizers. Could you explain them > further. How do they differ from the senders??? > > Bill Britton > RV-10 Emp #40137 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bob.kaufmann" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:46 PM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" > > > > James > > > > I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. After > a > > short learning session, they will be more accurate than either type of > fuel > > sender.. > > Bob K > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs > > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:01 PM > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs > > > > Hi All, > > > > I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find any definitive > > solutions in the previous posts... I'd prefer capacitance fuel senders > > to floats for my 10, and as I'm getting ready to order the wings I'm > > trying to figure out what to do about it. Has anyone put any in their 10 > > yet? Any ideas? Should I just go with one of the probe type with the > > concentric tubes as opposed to waiting for the plates for the 10? Anyone > > heard from vans recently on this issue? > > > > Thanks, > > James > > #40400 > > > > -- > > There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw > > yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide > to > > the Galaxy' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:25 AM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=f0z909GdHeISWZRJR1SYGzEzsZUEwLFeiTHcDSgKkeICapN678ac+70qqDvB3hTTM7vlRgBMj+gfzg/Dyj8U1r7IoulT7AKAd3v3fPlYDmLa7hyxraX6U658Mh6WepBnANM1KO2RDjELfcRJYYd9xgdARZYpUuLzXbi43syRViQ= ; From: Nikolaos Napoli Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders The only negative about this is that if there is a fuel leak upstream of the flow measuring device you might not know it until you run out of fuel. Niko "bob.kaufmann" wrote: --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" James I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. After a short learning session, they will be more accurate than either type of fuel sender.. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs Subject: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs Hi All, I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find any definitive solutions in the previous posts... I'd prefer capacitance fuel senders to floats for my 10, and as I'm getting ready to order the wings I'm trying to figure out what to do about it. Has anyone put any in their 10 yet? Any ideas? Should I just go with one of the probe type with the concentric tubes as opposed to waiting for the plates for the 10? Anyone heard from vans recently on this issue? Thanks, James #40400 -- There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:14 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I'll agree with what your other reply from Mark said. Just replace the valve...should be a couple bucks and a few minutes. I don't get much water in the winter months, but in the summer I get a ton. It's all a factor of the humidity in the air....ALL compressors do it. I spent years owning a SCUBA operation...those compressors have the same issues. Many people spend lots of money on auto drain valves...probably not worth it for a small home compressor. The water will be orange because of surface rust. It's probably not at all severe. Many many compressors will do that. My ancient compressor is still just fine, and it's always had water in it. I actually went 2 or 3 years without draning it. It's really probably no big deal that it comes out a bit orange. Also, the more often you drain it the less you'll probably notice it. One thing that would help kill the rust is if the tank obtained an oily coating inside. Sometimes this happens naturally over time with an oil lubed pump. Not necessarily a good thing for when you plan to paint, but it would help the tank out. I think the tank will last many many many years no matter what you do. As for draining, I drain every couple days in the summer, every week or month in the winter...just depends on how much I run the compressor. Wheny ou drain it, just let it slowly drain (Not wide open) until the water is mostly stopped, then close it and leave it. This really illustrates why a water separator inline is a good idea. Last summer on hot and humid days, my hand tools would have air moist enough to have a slight mist coming out sometimes. I put in an FRL (left off the "L") and it's much better now. I have the lubricator plumbed on a separate line that I plug in only when I use my high flowing rotary tools, like the drill and die grinder. Everything else runs oil free. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE James Ochs wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and > have a couple of questions about what its doing > > > > 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. Its a crappy valve > that is about in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get > the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a > way to replace it with something that works a bit better? > > 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I > drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days > Ive noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with suspended > rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I should be > worried about? > > 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it > is done draining? > > > > You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an airplane > in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a good drain > valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention in the tank :P > > > > Thanks all > > > > James > > #40400 > > Just completed prosealing the rudder. > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:40 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. After a > short learning session, they will be more accurate than either type of fuel > sender.. > Bob K Bob, Check the FARs... Part 91.205 *requires* fuel quantity indication for each tank. 91.205(b)(9) reads: (9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Couple of other things to note here. My 60gal compressor sits in air conditioned space here in the DFW area that also has a dehumidifier in it. RH probably sits around 20 - 40 % I also have a water separator coming off the compressor. Even with all of that moisture removal, in a fairly dry climate, the second the air lines hit my warmer workshop I tend to get condensate. I finally picked up another water separator and put quick connects on it and put it on right before my flexible hose. Took out a bunch more water during the winter months. Also, if you have a small compressor tank and you don't drain regularly in a humid environment, you will find that your compressor runs much more often. Remember, water is not compressible so if you end up with a large amount of water in your tank, you are effectively decreasing the size of the tank. Michael Sausen RV-10 #40352 Elevators -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I'll agree with what your other reply from Mark said. Just replace the valve...should be a couple bucks and a few minutes. I don't get much water in the winter months, but in the summer I get a ton. It's all a factor of the humidity in the air....ALL compressors do it. I spent years owning a SCUBA operation...those compressors have the same issues. Many people spend lots of money on auto drain valves...probably not worth it for a small home compressor. The water will be orange because of surface rust. It's probably not at all severe. Many many compressors will do that. My ancient compressor is still just fine, and it's always had water in it. I actually went 2 or 3 years without draning it. It's really probably no big deal that it comes out a bit orange. Also, the more often you drain it the less you'll probably notice it. One thing that would help kill the rust is if the tank obtained an oily coating inside. Sometimes this happens naturally over time with an oil lubed pump. Not necessarily a good thing for when you plan to paint, but it would help the tank out. I think the tank will last many many many years no matter what you do. As for draining, I drain every couple days in the summer, every week or month in the winter...just depends on how much I run the compressor. Wheny ou drain it, just let it slowly drain (Not wide open) until the water is mostly stopped, then close it and leave it. This really illustrates why a water separator inline is a good idea. Last summer on hot and humid days, my hand tools would have air moist enough to have a slight mist coming out sometimes. I put in an FRL (left off the "L") and it's much better now. I have the lubricator plumbed on a separate line that I plug in only when I use my high flowing rotary tools, like the drill and die grinder. Everything else runs oil free. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE James Ochs wrote: > Hi all, > > > I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and > have a couple of questions about what it's doing... > > > 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. It's a crappy valve > that is about =BD" in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get > the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a > way to replace it with something that works a bit better? > > 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I > drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days > I've noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with > suspended rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I > should be worried about? > > 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it > is done draining? > > > You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an > airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a > good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention > in the tank :P > > > Thanks all... > > > James > > #40400 > > Just completed prosealing the rudder.... > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Which bucking bar From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" I'm pretty sure that I used an Avery #610 for almost all of the tail stuff, if it wasn't that it was the #620. It was NOT the "special" one. That one is actually called out in the manual and there's an option to either use that or blind rivets. Bob #40105 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: RV10-List: Which bucking bar Which bucking bar are you guys using for the HS-905 nose ribs on the HS??? Is this where the special RV-10 bucking bar comes into play??? TIA Bill Britton RV-10 Emp #40137 Riveting HS ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:42 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" I think just about all compressors come with that setup for draining. I replaced it with an elbow, short section of pipe, a standard shutoff valve and then a 45 elbow to direct flow toward the floor. I think the fittings are =BC NPT. Really nice to be able to just reach down and open the valve... Bob #40105 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs Subject: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks Hi all, I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and have a couple of questions about what it's doing... 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. It's a crappy valve that is about =BD" in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a way to replace it with something that works a bit better? 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days I've noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with suspended rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I should be worried about? 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it is done draining? You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention in the tank :P Thanks all... James #40400 Just completed prosealing the rudder.... ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks From: "Randy DeBauw" Normal stuff James. Go back to working on the plane. The more you run the compressor in humid weather the more moisture you will pick up. As it dries out this summer the water content will drop. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs Subject: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks Hi all, I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and have a couple of questions about what it's doing... 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. It's a crappy valve that is about =BD" in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a way to replace it with something that works a bit better? 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days I've noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with suspended rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I should be worried about? 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it is done draining? You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention in the tank :P Thanks all... James #40400 Just completed prosealing the rudder.... ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes From: "Randy DeBauw" The plans don't show it but you need to use the bushings supplied. Look in your bags and you will find some bushings already the correct size. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked@earthlink.net Subject: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes I mounted the left flap tonight and found the holes in the flap hinge, the portion that attaches to the wing has a larger hole than the flap brackets (AN-4 bolt) that are on the flap itself. I referenced the plans and could not find if it gets bushed anywhere. Is this normal for anyone else? I can't believe that this is the way it should be for final assembly. The wings plans don't indicate to drill out those brackets only to deburr the holes. I can't imagine I drilled them larger at some point for no reason. Rick S. 40185 Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Bruce, don't worry I picked up the slack watching when you left. Randy has still not eaten much. Pulling the plane out then back between thundershowers was a hoot. Tim James flying GIB with Rob Hickman in Robs RV-4 have captured some inspirational inflight Aircraft to Aircraft video. Rob and Randy are downloading the data points from the ACS2500 right now. Way too cool. The smell of the new engine is a unique memory. Digital video will be forwarded to Tim Olson for final presentation after Randy gets dinner. Went out again this afternoon. The absolute kick in the pants was asking Randy to pull up at VANS when he got back from his hour and a half run dodging the cells. Dick was coming out of the building to jump in the RV-9 and head home. He did a big U turn back into the building and out came the entire staff to give Randy and his family kudos they so richly deserve for completing the entire aircraft and making sure every single system worked. No high speed passes with this owner. Still digitals images of the event will be sent to Tim as well. I have to get my wet clothes off and change into something dry..... But they say it's a warm rain here this time of year. John Cox - KUAO =09 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BBreckenridge@att.net Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:55 PM To: RV10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Ok, like this is really driving me crazy. I'm only now, 5 hours later, starting to "feel normal" again. I can't imagine how Randy feels!! I mean, he probably won't tell you about his restless night, getting up at 4:30am, not eating a good breakfast, etc... so, I am. He spent some family time around the lunch hour with plans to do some more flying while the weather was clear. He's probably still out there flying around incoming cells. It was an exhilarating experience to be there. As many have said before, keep pounding those rivets -you're in for the ride of your life!! Bruce Do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:05 AM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV10-List: milestone #1 Good post. I like these "basic" posts. I need them! Keep them coming, Ladies and Gents. The accumulated posts should be the definitive resource, or at least definitive opinion. John J Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Subject: RV10-List: milestone #1 Just finished the Vertical Stab! 29 hours, which included rattle can priming. Is it just me or does it always take longer to rivet than you think? I figured that would be one of the faster parts of the build, but just the VS took me a full 10 hours to rivet. Maybe I just needed a steep learning curve on technique. Oh, I also contacted my local EAA Tech Counselor last Friday, and met him at a local Fly-in on Saturday. I wanted to establish contact with a TC and get my work on the VS looked at before I closed it up. He said good to go and we filled out the form. As a side note, he told me that if you get at least 3 TC inspections done during the course of your build, EAA's insurance program will cover you on first flight (I guess provided you get the coverage; it's not automatic), and he recommended that RVs only need 5-6 inspections during build. I assume some of you know this and may be able to expound some. I thought it a good idea to share with the rest of us in the early stages to get plugged in. It also helps to have that second set of experienced eyes looking over your work! Rob Wright #40392 N524RX Reserved Emp kit ~15% done ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: milestone #1 P.S. I was told for our RV-10 that EAA will cover you (or at least me!) only if you have 1000 hours total time. I thought EAA was supposed to be on our side? TDT ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Jessen Subject: RE: RV10-List: milestone #1 Good post. I like these "basic" posts. I need them! Keep them coming, Ladies and Gents. The accumulated posts should be the definitive resource, or at least definitive opinion. John J Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:20 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: milestone #1 =09 =09 Just finished the Vertical Stab! 29 hours, which included rattle can priming. Is it just me or does it always take longer to rivet than you think? I figured that would be one of the faster parts of the build, but just the VS took me a full 10 hours to rivet. Maybe I just needed a steep learning curve on technique... Oh, I also contacted my local EAA Tech Counselor last Friday, and met him at a local Fly-in on Saturday. I wanted to establish contact with a TC and get my work on the VS looked at before I closed it up. He said good to go and we filled out the form. As a side note, he told me that if you get at least 3 TC inspections done during the course of your build, EAA's insurance program will cover you on first flight (I guess provided you get the coverage; it's not automatic), and he recommended that RVs only need 5-6 inspections during build. I assume some of you know this and may be able to expound some. I thought it a good idea to share with the rest of us in the early stages to get plugged in. It also helps to have that second set of experienced eyes looking over your work! Rob Wright #40392 N524RX Reserved Emp kit ~15% done ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:05 AM PST US From: "Jim Combs" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Flap Motor --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" Tim, I would not drive the flap motor directly from the 24 volt bus. Bad things WILL happen. I would also be carefull about how you reduce the voltage. An off the shelf linear voltage regulator will overheat. You need a switching type of voltage regulator to drop the voltage. Not a big deal to do. Jim C #40192 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:21 AM PST US From: James Ochs Subject: Re: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs Ok, I feel better. Thanks for all the responses... I'm going to go get the parts to replace that valve tonight. I live in the bay area in California, and we are just coming off of a very wet rainy season so its been fairly humid (well by California standards anyway) and thats probably what it is. I have an inline water trap and oiler in my shop setup. BTW, just to keep me from doing something stupid I buy blue and red hoses... all blue hoses are used before the oiler, all the red ones are used after the oiler. That way its really easy for me keep from using the oiled line with a sprayer or blower ;) As another side note, I just bought one of those nifty rivet squeezers and part of the instructions they sent with it suggest to *NOT* put any oil in the tool because it uses a fair bit of grease on the moving parts inside the cylinders and that the oil will act as a solvent on the grease, then you will need to get it rebuilt again much sooner... Thanks, James Randy DeBauw wrote: > Normal stuff James. Go back to working on the plane. The more you run > the compressor in humid weather the more moisture you will pick up. As > it dries out this summer the water content will drop. Randy > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *James Ochs > *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2005 10:24 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks > > Hi all, > > I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and > have a couple of questions about what its doing > > 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. Its a crappy valve that > is about in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get the > channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a way to > replace it with something that works a bit better? > > 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I drain it > every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days Ive > noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with suspended > rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I should be > worried about? > > 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it is > done draining? > > You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an > airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a > good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention > in the tank :P > > Thanks all > > James > > #40400 > > Just completed prosealing the rudder. > -- There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks From: "Scott Schmidt" I drain mine about every 2 weeks. I also get about a cup of water. I have my compressor in the basement and I've piped the air up into my garage. I also have a switch both in the garage and in the basement to turn it off and on. There have been many nights though it has turned on and woke me up "forgot to turn it off.....again" It's great my wife puts up with me sometimes. The air in my basement is cold and it is more humid down there too which is why I'm sure I get so much water. But it was been really nice not to have the compressor in the garage. Anyway, I just drain it and close it back off. If you aren't going to use it for awhile it would probably be best to leave it open during that time. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs Subject: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks Hi all, I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and have a couple of questions about what it's doing... 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. It's a crappy valve that is about =BD" in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a way to replace it with something that works a bit better? 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days I've noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with suspended rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I should be worried about? 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it is done draining? You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention in the tank :P Thanks all... James #40400 Just completed prosealing the rudder.... ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:25 AM PST US From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" Subject: RV10-List: Instrument Flightschool overstock sale For some reason, Builder's Bookstore has become way overstocked on Jeppesen's Instrument FliteSchool CD. If you are considering an instrument rating, these FliteSchool CDs is a neat way to get started with the knowledge portion. Fliteschool is an interactive homestudy course with graphics, animation, and video. It also includes electronic versions of the Jeppesen Instrument textbook, the FAR/AIM, and a testprep program giving all the FAA written questions, answers and explanations. It lets you take practice tests, and once you've passed, your scores are sent to Jeppesen and you get a written sign-off to take the actual FAA test. This is normally a $160 item, but I've got 15 to sell for $99.95. We'll keep this going till the end of the week or until they sell out sell out. Here's the web address with more details http://www.buildersbooks.com/instrument_fliteschool_jeppesen.htm If you want to order one on-line, write "price $99.95 per Andy" in the order form special instruction box, or jest call and order by phone at 800 780-4115 Thanks, Andy Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com 800 780-4115 do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:45 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Which bucking bar From: matronix.rv10@4sythe.com --> RV10-List message posted by: matronix.rv10@4sythe.com I first tried to use the special HS bucking bar on the nose ribs but the angle was never right on any of the sides. I ended up using a short one that I have that has a 45 degree angle on it. It was easier then to get that angled side parallel with the skin. Make sure you use plenty of pressure on the bucking bar in this area. Also, on the rivets just aft of the front spar. If you don't apply good back pressure here, the mushroom set on the rivet gun hits just near the spar. The spar isn't moving and without good back pressure and attention, you can get some nice dents here. Kent Forsythe 40338 Elevators Wings (to be delivered tomorrow..yipeeee) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server.at.matronics.com@matronix.rv10.at.4sythe. com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which bucking bar --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson That special bucking bar starts coming in when you rivet the elevator skins to the rear of the elevator spar. The 2 skins are facing you like 2 big reed valves, and you need a bar that can get in between them and get down on the rivets. With 2 people, that part of the construction went really well for me. I don't think it was for the nose ribs. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > Which bucking bar are you guys using for the HS-905 nose ribs on the > HS??? Is this where the special RV-10 bucking bar comes into play??? > > TIA > Bill Britton > RV-10 Emp #40137 > Riveting HS ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:46 AM PST US From: William Curtis Subject: RV10-List: RE: Capacitance fuel senders > I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. > After a short learning session, they will be more accurate than either > type of Fuel sender.. > Bob K Bob, Totalizers are fine and I plan to use one also but they dont tell you if you have a leak. I would still put in the resistive senders. In the old days before the Flowscan, accurate readings from capacitance senders were preferred. Today resistance senders AND totalizers are fine. Do not archive William #40237 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:26 PM PST US From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes Rick I had the same problem, turns out that there are bushes that go in here. Regards Dave #40159 ----- Original Message ----- From: ricksked@earthlink.net To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:57 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes I mounted the left flap tonight and found the holes in the flap hinge, the portion that attaches to the wing has a larger hole than the flap brackets (AN-4 bolt) that are on the flap itself. I referenced the plans and could not find if it gets bushed anywhere. Is this normal for anyone else? I can't believe that this is the way it should be for final assembly. The wings plans don't indicate to drill out those brackets only to deburr the holes. I can't imagine I drilled them larger at some point for no reason. Rick S. 40185 Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Bruce, don't worry I picked up the slack watching when you left. Randy has still not eaten much. Pulling the plane out then back between thundershowers was a hoot. Tim James flying GIB with Rob Hickman in Robs RV-4 have captured some inspirational inflight Aircraft to Aircraft video. Rob and Randy are downloading the data points from the ACS2500 right now. Way too cool. The smell of the new engine is a unique memory. Digital video will be forwarded to Tim Olson for final presentation after Randy gets dinner. Went out again this afternoon. The absolute kick in the pants was asking Randy to pull up at VANS when he got back from his hour and a half run dodging the cells. Dick was coming out of the building to jump in the RV-9 and head home. He did a big U turn back into the building and out came the entire staff to give Randy and his family kudos they so richly deserve for completing the entire aircraft and making sure every single system worked. No high speed passes with this owner. Still digitals images of the event will be sent to Tim as well. I have to get my wet clothes off and change into something dry... But they say it's a warm rain here this time of year. John Cox - KUAO From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BBreckenridge@att.net Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:55 PM To: RV10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Ok, like this is really driving me crazy. I'm only now, 5 hours later, starting to "feel normal" again. I can't imagine how Randy feels!! I mean, he probably won't tell you about his restless night, getting up at 4:30am, not eating a good breakfast, etc... so, I am. He spent some family time around the lunch hour with plans to do some more flying while the weather was clear. He's probably still out there flying around incoming cells. It was an exhilarating experience to be there. As many have said before, keep pounding those rivets -you're in for the ride of your life!! Bruce Do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:00 PM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which bucking bar --> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" You can use almost anything as a bucking bar. The surface should be smooth and the object needs only enough mass to do the job. I've used steel collars, flat bars clamped to other bars to provide mass, and found some very useful ones at body shop supply houses-only they call them dollys. Albert Gardner RV-9A 872RV Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:26 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Capacitance fuel senders From: "Wentz, Don" Agree with William, especially when you forget to reset the totalizer after a fill-up (ask me how I know ;-) dw RV-6 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Subject: RV10-List: RE: Capacitance fuel senders > I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. > After a short learning session, they will be more accurate than either > type of Fuel sender.. > Bob K Bob, Totalizers are fine and I plan to use one also but they don't tell you if you have a leak. I would still put in the resistive senders. In the old days before the Flowscan, accurate readings from capacitance senders were preferred. Today resistance senders AND totalizers are fine. Do not archive William #40237 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:35 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Oxygen systems From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" And now for something somewhat different..... So I've looked through the archives on this subject and found that many people use oxygen in a permanent or portable manner. Aerox and Mountain High seem to be the most popular systems (no surprise there) but what I haven't been able to find is a good comparison. Being that I am building an RV-10 and I currently expect the average trip to be in the 1000 mile and 3 person area, I plan on installing a permanent mount system and transfill the tank myself (please, let's not go down that discussion path). So my big question is does anyone have a comparison between the two systems. I found an old Aviation Consumer article on the Nelson site but it's a bit outdated. What I really want to know is if the Mountain High EDSip Pulse Demand System really conserves oxygen well enough and has enough benefits to justify a 6k+, 4 seat system. I haven't been able to find any endurance numbers on their site. I have a while before I need to make this decision but curiosity has been bugging me on it. I'm willing to pay a premium for a more advanced system that allows me to go 2-3 times longer between fills but I want the numbers to back it up. Michael Sausen #40352 Elevators ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:01 PM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oxygen systems I would post this on the Lancair LML site. If you're not a member of that, I can do it for you. They have had discussions about this very thing, so a search of the LML archives might worthwhile. lml@lancaironline.net John Jessen -> Emp (2%) _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Subject: RV10-List: Oxygen systems And now for something somewhat different..... So I've looked through the archives on this subject and found that many people use oxygen in a permanent or portable manner. Aerox and Mountain High seem to be the most popular systems (no surprise there) but what I haven't been able to find is a good comparison. Being that I am building an RV-10 and I currently expect the average trip to be in the 1000 mile and 3 person area, I plan on installing a permanent mount system and transfill the tank myself (please, let's not go down that discussion path). So my big question is does anyone have a comparison between the two systems. I found an old Aviation Consumer article on the Nelson site but it's a bit outdated. What I really want to know is if the Mountain High EDSip Pulse Demand System really conserves oxygen well enough and has enough benefits to justify a 6k+, 4 seat system. I haven't been able to find any endurance numbers on their site. I have a while before I need to make this decision but curiosity has been bugging me on it. I'm willing to pay a premium for a more advanced system that allows me to go 2-3 times longer between fills but I want the numbers to back it up. Michael Sausen #40352 Elevators ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:10 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=zc09hFP9MWBSyxSY98lWqnrOzv20lVB2gwzNQ60ClMonIZcYecg8SYRrnvHM8QjkETtM0vZ/wxJoFrf0Sv2NKl8S02A4dNjajVEP/EmGYdTevN4/OEyEkSFKAsH8EXgzh10PD3pbeBa14xj/wFxFb1Q6JMGZ+RtISiegLxykPr0= ; From: Brcue Patton Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oxygen systems I use the Mountain High system in my glider. It reduces oxygen consumption to a minimum. Rebreather cannula's are good, but this is a whole order of magnitude better. Their in-panel system looks very good, but expensive. Probably worth the cost, especially in the RV aircraft since you can get into oxygen altitudes so easily. I like to use oxygen above about 9,000 to reduce fatigue and a headache. I have a rebreather cannula and a small hand bottle in the -6A, and does not have major endurance. My glider has an 18 cf bottle and might last the whole season. Filling you own bottle is great if you can get at it easily to remove. We use welders oxygen all the time and don't get flash burns. Bruce Patton John Jessen wrote: I would post this on the Lancair LML site. If you're not a member of that, I can do it for you. They have had discussions about this very thing, so a search of the LML archives might worthwhile. lml@lancaironline.net John Jessen -> Emp (2%) --------------------------------- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Subject: RV10-List: Oxygen systems And now for something somewhat different..... So I've looked through the archives on this subject and found that many people use oxygen in a permanent or portable manner. Aerox and Mountain High seem to be the most popular systems (no surprise there) but what I haven't been able to find is a good comparison. Being that I am building an RV-10 and I currently expect the average trip to be in the 1000 mile and 3 person area, I plan on installing a permanent mount system and transfill the tank myself (please, let's not go down that discussion path). So my big question is does anyone have a comparison between the two systems. I found an old Aviation Consumer article on the Nelson site but it's a bit outdated. What I really want to know is if the Mountain High EDSip Pulse Demand System really conserves oxygen well enough and has enough benefits to justify a 6k+, 4 seat system. I haven't been able to find any endurance numbers on their site. I have a while before I need to make this decision but curiosity has been bugging me on it. I'm willing to pay a premium for a more advanced system that allows me to go 2-3 times longer between fills but I want the numbers to back it up. Michael Sausen #40352 Elevators ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:57 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which bucking bar <000c01c5616e$f49a0ac0$d7f6af45@Albert> --> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" We had a "form" stake. Very dense metal about 1/4" thick, 2" wide & 30" long with nail holes along its flat side for putting up concrete pour forms. Cleaned up an abused one, polished the pointed tip, used two hands to hold it in place, one in the middle, one on the beaten end. Able to reach into tight areas to set rivets. It takes time & two people to set every rivet BUT it is possible. Construction firms are using more wooden stakes but there should a concrete contractor in your area that has an old, well worn, beaten & bent one laying around. The one we had didn't rust either. KABONG (GBA & GWB) Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which bucking bar > You can use almost anything as a bucking bar. The surface should be smooth > and the object needs only enough mass to do the job. I've used steel > collars, > Albert Gardner > RV-9A 872RV > Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:02 PM PST US From: "McGANN, Ron" Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Alternator? --> RV10-List message posted by: "McGANN, Ron" G'day all, Currently planning my antenna installation. I will be going with a GNS430 and SL30 for all Nav/Comms. Bent whip on belly, straight whip on top for comms. I will be using the Archer nav antenna(s) in the wingtip. I was thinking of one in each side for dual redundancy and optimum performance. Is this overkill? I also notice that there is not much info in the way of installation material for Garmin products on the Garmin website. Anyone know of a source of such material? TIA Ron 40187 Wings ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:32 PM PST US s=test1; d=earthlink.net; b=Wis/0rkTL/AsCa2gl5XwUCo9hXA5LhW3c7lSr4JM7B2kNZE45kwldU4nA2ASSD8u; From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Flap Motor --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" Hi Tim: I wouldn't venture a guess on running the 12 motor at 24 volts. Van sells a flap position switch sytem that I believe does provide the one click up function you mention. See http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1117073011-52-705&browse=airframe&product=fps Dick Sipp 40065 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Subject: RV10-List: RE: Flap Motor For various reasons, we're going to have a 24 V bus system in our -10, which can be a pain sometimes, like with the 12 V flap motor. For the short duration that the Flap motor runs, what about the crazy idea of just going ahead and running that sucker on 24 volts? Might speed up the Flap deployment, too. Or is that just a stupid way to burn out the motor? While we're on the subject, is anyone doing a simple limit-switch "one-touch" flap retraction arrangement? Where are you mounting the limit switch? On the flaps themselves, or is there any way to do it on the flap motor or actuator assembly? TDT 40025 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:52 PM PST US From: William Curtis Subject: RV10-List: RE: Alternator? (Garmin install manuals) >I also notice that there is not much info in the way of installation >material for Garmin products on the Garmin website. Anyone know of > a source of such material? > >TIA >Ron >40187 Wings Ron, Garmin took most of their installation manuals off the "public" side of their website a while back. I have most of the Garmin install manuals however. Let me know which one(s) you need. William #40237 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:10 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks Harbor Freight and Salvage makes an automatic drain valve that is inexpensive. I bought one but have not installed it yet. Bob Spudis ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:20 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which bucking bar Bill, The special bar is not for the nose but for the elevator rear spar and you will most likely need it, try to borrow one if you can, three of us swapped one around here in Las Vegas. On the leading edge HS I used a bar that has a rounded nose, Avery number 610. It almost matched the shape of the leading edge. I also have found the following handy thru almost completing the wings. Avery #'s 620, 635, 670, 690 and I borrowed a 685 to get the wing top skins to rear spar completed. Hope that helps. Rick S. 40185 Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill and Tami Britton To: RV10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: RV10-List: Which bucking bar Which bucking bar are you guys using for the HS-905 nose ribs on the HS??? Is this where the special RV-10 bucking bar comes into play??? TIA Bill Britton RV-10 Emp #40137 Riveting HS ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:41 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: Bill, Basically your engine monitor (or whatever you plan to use to manage fuel) if capable, gets a signal from a flow sensor that calcs amount of fuel flowing through the fuel line, it will calculate GPH and total fuel used. It's how the fighters and transports do it. Be advisded it needs ot be calibrated and setup for your aircraft. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill and Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" > > > Bob, I guess I'm not familiar with totalizers. Could you explain them > further. How do they differ from the senders??? > > Bill Britton > RV-10 Emp #40137 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bob.kaufmann" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:46 PM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders > > >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" >> >> James >> >> I decided to go with totalizers, and not put senders in the tanks. After > a >> short learning session, they will be more accurate than either type of > fuel >> sender.. >> Bob K >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs >> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:01 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV10-List: Capacitance fuel senders >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs >> >> Hi All, >> >> I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find any definitive >> solutions in the previous posts... I'd prefer capacitance fuel senders >> to floats for my 10, and as I'm getting ready to order the wings I'm >> trying to figure out what to do about it. Has anyone put any in their 10 >> yet? Any ideas? Should I just go with one of the probe type with the >> concentric tubes as opposed to waiting for the plates for the 10? Anyone >> heard from vans recently on this issue? >> >> Thanks, >> James >> #40400 >> >> -- >> There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw >> yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide > to >> the Galaxy' >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:17 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes Thanks Dave, I found the bushings, and thanks to Tim I didn't install them. They are too wide to get the bottom skins over to install. I'm still looking for the revision to the plans....I know it's here somewhere. Mike Howe referenced a step #13 on his web page.....not in my step 13 though. I know I read about a revision somewhere, maybe on Van's page. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave & Brenda Emond To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:37 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes Rick I had the same problem, turns out that there are bushes that go in here. Regards Dave #40159 ----- Original Message ----- From: ricksked@earthlink.net To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:57 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flap mounting holes I mounted the left flap tonight and found the holes in the flap hinge, the portion that attaches to the wing has a larger hole than the flap brackets (AN-4 bolt) that are on the flap itself. I referenced the plans and could not find if it gets bushed anywhere. Is this normal for anyone else? I can't believe that this is the way it should be for final assembly. The wings plans don't indicate to drill out those brackets only to deburr the holes. I can't imagine I drilled them larger at some point for no reason. Rick S. 40185 Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Bruce, don't worry I picked up the slack watching when you left. Randy has still not eaten much. Pulling the plane out then back between thundershowers was a hoot. Tim James flying GIB with Rob Hickman in Robs RV-4 have captured some inspirational inflight Aircraft to Aircraft video. Rob and Randy are downloading the data points from the ACS2500 right now. Way too cool. The smell of the new engine is a unique memory. Digital video will be forwarded to Tim Olson for final presentation after Randy gets dinner. Went out again this afternoon. The absolute kick in the pants was asking Randy to pull up at VANS when he got back from his hour and a half run dodging the cells. Dick was coming out of the building to jump in the RV-9 and head home. He did a big U turn back into the building and out came the entire staff to give Randy and his family kudos they so richly deserve for completing the entire aircraft and making sure every single system worked. No high speed passes with this owner. Still digitals images of the event will be sent to Tim as well. I have to get my wet clothes off and change into something dry... But they say it's a warm rain here this time of year. John Cox - KUAO From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BBreckenridge@att.net Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:55 PM To: RV10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Re: Randy #006 - 2nd Flying RV-10 Ok, like this is really driving me crazy. I'm only now, 5 hours later, starting to "feel normal" again. I can't imagine how Randy feels!! I mean, he probably won't tell you about his restless night, getting up at 4:30am, not eating a good breakfast, etc... so, I am. He spent some family time around the lunch hour with plans to do some more flying while the weather was clear. He's probably still out there flying around incoming cells. It was an exhilarating experience to be there. As many have said before, keep pounding those rivets -you're in for the ride of your life!! Bruce Do not archive ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:05 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks James, It's normal, the inside of the tank is bare steel, as air is compressed it gives up it's moisture, (hence the rust and brown water) the higher the humidity the more condensation forms and the more the tank fills. I drain mine every few days because the RH here is about 10 percent, in a place like Florida your tank can fill considerable with water. If anynoe remembers James McClow, he has several gallons in his tank and could not figure out why he was running out of air until he found the drain....He was in Seminole Florida. I drain the water under pressure, run the compressor a minute to completely purge and then close the valve. I use a pair of duck bill pliers because my valve is stubborn as well. Most manufactuers recommend draining the tank after each days use. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: James Ochs To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:23 PM Subject: RV10-List: stupid compressor tricks Hi all, I have one of those craftsman compressors with the 26 gallon tank and have a couple of questions about what it's doing. 1) the drain valve is very difficult to turn. It's a crappy valve that is about =BD" in diameter and no ears, and I sometimes have to get the channel locks out to get it to turn. Is this normal? Is there a way to replace it with something that works a bit better? 2) I get A LOT of water draining out of it when I drain it. I drain it every day when I am done with it, and the last couple of days I've noticed the water coming out has a nice orange color with suspended rust particles in it. Is this normal or is it something I should be worried about? 3) Should I be leaving the drain valve open or closing it when it is done draining? You would think that if it is possible for someone to build an airplane in their garage, the tool guys could figure out how to put a good drain valve on the compressor and do some kind of rust prevention in the tank :P Thanks all. James #40400 Just completed prosealing the rudder.. ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:36 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=CGM50VTDlOJq/CKIA0kWBd+FDe+nRX4rAzLxopzYPjlqtfbAzlgCeb71Afc7bYSjpCVAFQWReRmT5GnQC59YqwIoLR3Mu8WTpOxoesm7OiZ+bS1Ethxxk79LfMPzN41s15CMhKxOkcKnI/KMP+HtxLo8ExSsX/YDidto+1789a4= ; From: Dan Benua Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10--List: Capacitance fuel senders --> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Benua Hi James, I've installed capacitive senders in my RV-10 tanks. Van's won't provide a kit for quite some time (next year?) but you can make your own by adapting the kit they provide for the other RV models. I chose capacitive senders to get improved accuracy and reliability. Float senders have given me problems with both characteristics, so I wanted to try something different. That kit provides two aluminum plates supported by insulated spacers next to the most inboard and most outboard interior ribs of the tank. As the tank fills, the capacitance between the plates and the tank ribs increases because of the difference in the dielectric constants of air and fuel. The installation is not difficult, but requires careful sealing of the back end of the BNC connector installed in the inboard tank end rib. (I had a leak there in one of my tanks!) I made a few "improvements" in the standard kit aimed at increasing the maximum (full) capacitance and increasing the ratio between the full and empty capacitance values. My hope is to improve accuracy and noise margin compared to the stock design. The first change was to reduce the spacing between the plates and the ribs from 3/8" to 1/4". This increases both the empty and full capacitance values. The second change was to move the wire connecting the plates and the BNC connector away from the tank vent tube. This reduces the "fixed" capacitance caused by wrapping the wire around the vent tube. Once you see the drawings and instructions in Van's kit this description should become more clear. One caution is that these modifications have not yet been tested with fuel in the tank and a capacitive fuel gauge. I have talked with Rob Hickman and his engine monitor should be able to accommodate my design changes. I'll give a little introduction since this is my first post to this group (I've been lurking since the beginning!) I'm a repeat offender with an RV-6A that has been flying for almost six years. (It has float senders!) I'm also a Technical Counselor with EAA Chapt 105 in Hillsboro, Oregon (also known as the Home Wing of Van's Airforce). I'm currently working on the control surfaces of my slow-build wings. And yes, I was the first person to order an RV-10 empa-cone! - Dan Benua #40001 __________________________________