Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: skin crease (Chris , Susie McGough)
2. 03:22 AM - Re: Filling pin holes (Jesse Saint)
3. 03:28 AM - Re: Filling pin holes (Jesse Saint)
4. 03:28 AM - Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Jesse Saint)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Greg Young)
6. 07:08 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Tim Olson)
7. 07:28 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (linn walters)
8. 07:28 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (John Kirkland)
9. 07:35 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
10. 07:52 AM - Re: More Missing QB Fuse Parts (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
11. 08:34 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
12. 08:36 AM - TruTrak / Chelton functionality update (Tim Olson)
13. 08:37 AM - Re: Filling pin holes (Dj Merrill)
14. 08:44 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
15. 08:57 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
16. 09:02 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (linn walters)
17. 09:15 AM - Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update (Wayne Edgerton)
18. 09:29 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
19. 09:39 AM - Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update (Tim Olson)
20. 09:43 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
21. 10:08 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Greg Young)
22. 10:31 AM - Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
23. 11:19 AM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
24. 11:27 AM - Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost (Tim Olson)
25. 11:32 AM - Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update (Mark & Kelly)
26. 11:36 AM - Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update (Mark & Kelly)
27. 12:03 PM - Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
28. 12:11 PM - Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update (Tim Olson)
29. 12:20 PM - Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
30. 12:56 PM - Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost (Tim Olson)
31. 12:57 PM - Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost (Tim Olson)
32. 01:12 PM - IO VS O-540s (Marcus Cooper)
33. 01:13 PM - IO vs O-540s (Marcus Cooper)
34. 01:30 PM - Rear Headset Jacks (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
35. 01:55 PM - If you are getting close to flying read this! (Randy's Abros mail)
36. 03:05 PM - Re: Rear Headset Jacks (Tim Olson)
37. 03:08 PM - Re: Rudder Trim (Randy DeBauw)
38. 03:11 PM - Re: Rudder Trim (Randy DeBauw)
39. 03:52 PM - Re: Filling pin holes (Randy DeBauw)
40. 04:05 PM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (tax issue) (Brian)
41. 04:15 PM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Randy DeBauw)
42. 04:30 PM - Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update (Randy DeBauw)
43. 04:31 PM - Re: Tank skin to baffle rivet question (Rick)
44. 04:41 PM - Narrow Deck Engine (Sam Marlow)
45. 04:45 PM - Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (Randy DeBauw)
46. 04:54 PM - Re: Rudder Trim (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
47. 04:57 PM - Re: Rear Headset Jacks (Randy DeBauw)
48. 05:55 PM - Misc Fuel system parts (Tim Olson)
49. 06:29 PM - Re: Misc Fuel system parts (Randy DeBauw)
50. 08:12 PM - Re: Misc Fuel system parts (Tim Olson)
51. 08:13 PM - Re: QB Fuse - Hinges (Mike Kraus)
52. 08:38 PM - Re: Rear Headset Jacks (DejaVu)
53. 08:40 PM - Rudder Trailing Edge (Shawn Moon)
54. 09:07 PM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge (Tim Olson)
55. 10:50 PM - Dent in HS skin (Bill and Tami Britton)
56. 11:31 PM - Re: Dent in HS skin (McGANN, Ron)
57. 11:41 PM - Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost ()
Message 1
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Vans are sending a new skin + a replacement rib that was unusable due to it
looked like it had been hit with a hammer and 1 part that was missing....all
very good service ofcourse
Chris Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: skin crease
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
> Chris,
>
> Mine was perfect, cloco it on and see what happens, if not get with vans
> to replace, the skin contribute greatly to the strength of the entire
> assembly. Take a phot, email it to Vans and see if it is OK. If it is
> minor they may say it's good but the final call is yours and they have
> been good about standing behind bum parts and such with me.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Flaps
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:42 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: skin crease
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough"
>> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>>
>> I have started VS and have noticed the VS skin about 2-3 inches fron
>> leading edge has a slight skin crease in it from top to bottom only on
>> one side..anyone else had this
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Filling pin holes |
We used Smooth Prime by Poly Fiber. It fills the pinholes very well and
sands easy. We used a squeegee to put it on the first coat and if we had to
do it again we would squeegee on a second coat as well to finish filling.
We had 0 pinholes when we primed after this. If you prime with pinholes in
the fiberglass they will show up like crazy. If you Smooth Prime, then
prime, then use some kind of filler (could be smooth prime again) to fill in
any pinholes that show up, that should work.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: RV10-List: Filling pin holes
What's everyone doing/using to fill the pin holes? I use epoxy with mircro
baloons. I don't mind sanding but this stuff is hard as a rock after it
cures and a bear to sand. Of course I have filler over 75% of the working
surface because I see pin holes everywhere. Can smaller holes be ignored
because the primer will fill them later? I'm thinking there might be an
easier way or softer filler available to speed up the sanding.
Anh
#141
Message 3
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| Subject: | Filling pin holes |
We used Smooth Prime by Poly Fiber. It fills the pinholes very well and
sands easy. We used a squeegee to put it on the first coat and if we had to
do it again we would squeegee on a second coat as well to finish filling.
We had 0 pinholes when we primed after this. If you prime with pinholes in
the fiberglass they will show up like crazy. If you Smooth Prime, then
prime, then use some kind of filler (could be smooth prime again) to fill in
any pinholes that show up, that should work.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: RV10-List: Filling pin holes
What's everyone doing/using to fill the pin holes? I use epoxy with mircro
baloons. I don't mind sanding but this stuff is hard as a rock after it
cures and a bear to sand. Of course I have filler over 75% of the working
surface because I see pin holes everywhere. Can smaller holes be ignored
because the primer will fill them later? I'm thinking there might be an
easier way or softer filler available to speed up the sanding.
Anh
#141
Message 4
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off process
in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register the airplane
before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you actually have to
have your certificate of registration back from the FAA before you can get
signed off to fly? I was told that I have to get a bill-of-sale from Van's
to accompany my registration. From my research, no bill of sale is required
if I built more than 50% of the plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very
highly resembles a plane that over 400 other people are working on, but I
built it and I can call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the
builder so I don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I
need a copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the affidavit to
be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of registration, attach a
letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6 weeks for a certificate."
Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent in?
Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I keep) copy of
the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
Thanks!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 5
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the inspection.
Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules" for kit planes some time
ago to require it. You'll also need the affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've
got a lot of time to kill as you could risk getting your registration delayed.
Call Van's and ask for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will
probably have it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR
he should be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program letter.)
The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't plan on being able
to expedite the process. Just get all the paperwork right the first time and
get it subemitted as quickly as possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
Greg
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off process in
the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register the airplane before
you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you actually have to have your certificate
of registration back from the FAA before you can get signed off to fly?
I was told that I have to get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration.
From my research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than
50% of the plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can call it
an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I don't need a bill-of-sale?
Some places it seems to say that I need a copy of my builder's log and
pictures or drawings of the 3 different views of the plane. Other places it
just says, "fill out the affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate
of registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait
3-6 weeks for a certificate."
Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent in? Can I
not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I keep) copy of the certificate
of registration for my sign-off?
Thanks!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Greg,
I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
is this:
When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and
small from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale
from Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine,
plus one from the Avionics suppliers?
Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since
I should soon be able to request that from Van's just to get
a jump on gathering papers and forms.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Greg Young wrote:
> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>
> Greg
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>
>
>
> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
> that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can
> call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I
> don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a
> copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
> affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of
> registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6
> weeks for a certificate."
>
>
>
> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Keep in mind that most states scan the FAA database on new registrations
to get the cost listed on the bill of sale. The states then use this
documented cost to charge you sales tax on the unreported purchase. You
may even be subject to penalties if they want to get nastier. Some
states even have their own 'schedule' .... and will use a comparable
airframe (like a 4-place Cessna .... I know that's not comparable, but
state Gov't does what it wants) as a basis for the tax. Be afraid .....
be very afraid. And careful what you supply the Feds.
Linn
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
> The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
> for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
> is this:
>
> When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
> Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and
> small from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
> Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale
> from Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine,
> plus one from the Avionics suppliers?
>
> Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since
> I should soon be able to request that from Van's just to get
> a jump on gathering papers and forms.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> Greg Young wrote:
>
>> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
>> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
>> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
>> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
>> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
>> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
>> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
>> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
>> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
>> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
>> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
>> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
>> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
>> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
>> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
>> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
>> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
>> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
>> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
>> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
>> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
>> that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can
>> call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I
>> don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a
>> copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
>> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
>> affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of
>> registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6
>> weeks for a certificate."
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
>> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
>> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>>
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>>
>> www.itecusa.org
>>
>> W: 352-465-4545
>>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>>
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Kirkland" <jskirkland@webpipe.net>
Seems like the FAA registry site says you use the invoice/receipt for the
kit manufacturer as the bill of sale. The FAA website has all the forms in a
downloadable format, and all the ACs that are in the info packet, in pdf
format on their website. They also have examples of how they expect the
forms to be filled out. The Airworthiness Inspector at your local FAA FSDO
is a person one should be talking to during the building process so you know
what to expect at the end when you actually get inspected. Sign-off is way
too late, IMHO. My local FSDO guys were glad to talk to me and discuss what
they expected to see on an IFR-operated homebuilt.
John Kirkland
#40333
Jesse Saint writes:
> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off process
> in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register the airplane
> before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you actually have to
> have your certificate of registration back from the FAA before you can get
> signed off to fly? I was told that I have to get a bill-of-sale from Van's
> to accompany my registration. From my research, no bill of sale is required
> if I built more than 50% of the plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very
> highly resembles a plane that over 400 other people are working on, but I
> built it and I can call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the
> builder so I don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I
> need a copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the affidavit to
> be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of registration, attach a
> letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6 weeks for a certificate."
>
>
>
> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent in?
> Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I keep) copy of
> the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Note that one of the forms is in triplicate or something, so the FAA will not accept
a version printed from an electronic file. You must get the original form
from the FAA. (I can't recall the number off the top of me head . . .)
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Kirkland
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Kirkland" <jskirkland@webpipe.net>
Seems like the FAA registry site says you use the invoice/receipt for the
kit manufacturer as the bill of sale. The FAA website has all the forms in a
downloadable format, and all the ACs that are in the info packet, in pdf
format on their website. They also have examples of how they expect the
forms to be filled out. The Airworthiness Inspector at your local FAA FSDO
is a person one should be talking to during the building process so you know
what to expect at the end when you actually get inspected. Sign-off is way
too late, IMHO. My local FSDO guys were glad to talk to me and discuss what
they expected to see on an IFR-operated homebuilt.
John Kirkland
#40333
Jesse Saint writes:
> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off process
> in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register the airplane
> before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you actually have to
> have your certificate of registration back from the FAA before you can get
> signed off to fly? I was told that I have to get a bill-of-sale from Van's
> to accompany my registration. From my research, no bill of sale is required
> if I built more than 50% of the plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very
> highly resembles a plane that over 400 other people are working on, but I
> built it and I can call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the
> builder so I don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I
> need a copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the affidavit to
> be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of registration, attach a
> letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6 weeks for a certificate."
>
>
>
> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent in?
> Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I keep) copy of
> the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | More Missing QB Fuse Parts |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Tim,
A little minor help - the blocks that F-6114B&C are made from were
actually supplied as part of the tail kits. The parts aren't marked by
number but the dimensions are there to match up. Time to dust off that
stuff...
> F-6114B and F-6114C: These are blocks that go in the rear baggage
> wall...I think for friction prevention where the seat belt cables come
> through the rear wall. 2 each are required on P. 33-10, none are in
> inventory.
Bob #40105
Message 11
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
This actually brings up an interesting subject. I would like to hear other peoples
experience with the states knocking on their door for the taxes. I have
heard everything from "never asked for a dime" to "wouldn't let me register until
I paid". My immediate concern is for Texas and Wisconsin. I'm currently
in Texas but might be back in Wisconsin by the time I finish it. Which also
makes me wonder if I can get away with not having to pay taxes on the parts I
got in TX should I move to WI (doubt it but worth attempting). I don't recall
but I believe people have suggested that TX doesn't usually bother collecting
on experimental unless you do something to really draw attention, like build
a IV-P. I'm not going to try and avoid the taxman but I'm certainly not going
looking for him either and this is always a very gray area from state to state.
Maybe Tim can keep a table on his site with states and if taxes were collected.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Keep in mind that most states scan the FAA database on new registrations to get
the cost listed on the bill of sale. The states then use this documented cost
to charge you sales tax on the unreported purchase. You may even be subject
to penalties if they want to get nastier. Some states even have their own 'schedule'
.... and will use a comparable airframe (like a 4-place Cessna .... I
know that's not comparable, but state Gov't does what it wants) as a basis for
the tax. Be afraid .....
be very afraid. And careful what you supply the Feds.
Linn
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
> The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
> for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
> is this:
>
> When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
> Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and small
> from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
> Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale from
> Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine, plus one
> from the Avionics suppliers?
>
> Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since I should
> soon be able to request that from Van's just to get a jump on
> gathering papers and forms.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> Greg Young wrote:
>
>> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
>> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
>> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
>> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
>> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
>> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
>> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
>> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
>> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
>> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
>> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
>> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
>> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
>> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
>> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
>> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
>> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
>> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
>> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
>> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
>> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
>> that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can
>> call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I
>> don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a
>> copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
>> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
>> affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of
>> registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6
>> weeks for a certificate."
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
>> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
>> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>>
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>>
>> www.itecusa.org
>>
>> W: 352-465-4545
>>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>>
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 12
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| Subject: | TruTrak / Chelton functionality update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I just got off the phone with Andrew at TruTrak to verify
a bit of functionality regarding Autopilot selection esp. in
regards to the Chelton system that I got.
I now have the 100% answer that yes, IF you have a Chelton system,
and a Digiflight II VSVG, you will be able to fly an ILS approach
with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly a GPS approach
with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly to a VOR
using a NAV signal. If you do NOT have a Chelton system not all of
this is possible at this time (Although I believe the GRT stuff will
let you do the lateral navigation...just not the vertical at this time).
The issue is that the TruTrak is a digital autopilot, and therefore
needs a digital signal. The ILS is an analog signal out of the
Nav Radio. But, if you interface something like the SL-30 to the
Chelton, now the Chelton receives the NAV signal, and you use the
Chelton to control the autopilot digitally. So, you now have the
capability.
He also verified that IF you have a Chelton, there is nothing
that you will gain of any significance by going to a Sorcerer
at this time, since you obtain a full feature set in conjunction
with the Chelton. "Save your money" was the word. Of course,
you can spend the extra if you wish.
Yes, the Digiflight IIVSVG WITH the Chelton can do Altitude Pre-select
right now. The DFIIVSVG will also be getting an upgrade in the
near future to add Altitude pre-select to it directly, without
the Chelton.
One other area that is still fuzzy was this: The GNS480 may possibly
be able to also control the DFIIVSVG Vertical nav control. It will
depend on if the GNS480 outputs a digital signal for the GPS approach
and the ILS approach, or just the GPS. If I learn more I'll pass
it on.
He was also in agreement with my plan to have a selection switch on
my panel that allows me to select which system is the input to my
Autopilot. Like a switch for "Chelton <---> GNS480". That way
you can lose the Chelton and still have whatever function in relation
to the GNS480 that you have.
As far as his stance on the legality of this all, he feels it's legal
to fly their autopilot coupled to the Chelton's system for an ILS,
or a GPS approach. He understands (as I have been finding) that some
of these issues depend on who you talk to, because there is always
the person on each extreme...one who insists the whole panel must
be TSO'd, and one who thinks that since we're homebuilt that anything
goes. I don't know that we'll ever 100% conclusively answer those
questions. I hesitate to take a manufacturer's word on it, but hey,
it's not like even people at the FAA haven't had differing opinions
from time to time, right? Anyway, this email isn't really about
legal status's, but functionality.
So, those who spend the money on a Chelton, can save over $3,000 up
front on their autopilot because they won't need the sorcerer.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Filling pin holes |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
DejaVu wrote:
> What's everyone doing/using to fill the pin holes? I use epoxy with
> mircro baloons. I don't mind sanding but this stuff is hard as a rock
> after it cures and a bear to sand. Of course I have filler over 75% of
> the working surface because I see pin holes everywhere. Can smaller
> holes be ignored because the primer will fill them later? I'm thinking
> there might be an easier way or softer filler available to speed up the
> sanding.
> Anh
> #141
I was just reading an article last night in the
new Kitplanes about this (about painting your aircraft,
but it talks about this). Ted Setzer from Glasair Aviation
recommended using spackle, believe it or not.
You might want to read over the article to get more
detail out of it. From what I read, you do want to
fill them in, as the they will show through the
paint later if you don't.
Bear in mind I am just repeating what I remember
from the article - I have ZERO experience with this myself.
-Dj
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
If you can believe it, out here in "Taxachusetts" we actually have a sales tax
exemption for all aircraft and aircraft parts . . .
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
This actually brings up an interesting subject. I would like to hear other peoples
experience with the states knocking on their door for the taxes. I have
heard everything from "never asked for a dime" to "wouldn't let me register until
I paid". My immediate concern is for Texas and Wisconsin. I'm currently
in Texas but might be back in Wisconsin by the time I finish it. Which also
makes me wonder if I can get away with not having to pay taxes on the parts I
got in TX should I move to WI (doubt it but worth attempting). I don't recall
but I believe people have suggested that TX doesn't usually bother collecting
on experimental unless you do something to really draw attention, like build
a IV-P. I'm not going to try and avoid the taxman but I'm certainly not going
looking for him either and this is always a very gray area from state to state.
Maybe Tim can keep a table on his site with states and if taxes were collected.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Keep in mind that most states scan the FAA database on new registrations to get
the cost listed on the bill of sale. The states then use this documented cost
to charge you sales tax on the unreported purchase. You may even be subject
to penalties if they want to get nastier. Some states even have their own 'schedule'
.... and will use a comparable airframe (like a 4-place Cessna .... I
know that's not comparable, but state Gov't does what it wants) as a basis for
the tax. Be afraid .....
be very afraid. And careful what you supply the Feds.
Linn
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
> The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
> for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
> is this:
>
> When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
> Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and small
> from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
> Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale from
> Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine, plus one
> from the Avionics suppliers?
>
> Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since I should
> soon be able to request that from Van's just to get a jump on
> gathering papers and forms.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> Greg Young wrote:
>
>> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
>> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
>> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
>> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
>> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
>> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
>> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
>> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
>> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
>> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
>> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
>> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
>> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
>> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
>> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
>> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
>> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
>> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
>> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
>> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
>> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
>> that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can
>> call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I
>> don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a
>> copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
>> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
>> affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of
>> registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6
>> weeks for a certificate."
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
>> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
>> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>>
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>>
>> www.itecusa.org
>>
>> W: 352-465-4545
>>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>>
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
RV10-List Email Forum -
bsp;
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 15
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
The FAA form 8050-2:
It's done in duplicate with the physical form or could be processed from
the web at http://registry.faa.gov/docs/8050-2.pdf. A lot of FBOs that
have planes for sale keep an inventory supply of them in printed version
or you can attempt a trip to your FSDO which keeps a supply, if you make
an appointment (Post 9/11). Don't know if they are now rejecting their
pdf format version electronically.
John Cox - retired DPE
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Note that one of the forms is in triplicate or something, so the FAA
will not accept a version printed from an electronic file. You must get
the original form from the FAA. (I can't recall the number off the top
of me head . . .)
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Kirkland
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Kirkland"
<jskirkland@webpipe.net>
Seems like the FAA registry site says you use the invoice/receipt for
the
kit manufacturer as the bill of sale. The FAA website has all the forms
in a
downloadable format, and all the ACs that are in the info packet, in pdf
format on their website. They also have examples of how they expect the
forms to be filled out. The Airworthiness Inspector at your local FAA
FSDO
is a person one should be talking to during the building process so you
know
what to expect at the end when you actually get inspected. Sign-off is
way
too late, IMHO. My local FSDO guys were glad to talk to me and discuss
what
they expected to see on an IFR-operated homebuilt.
John Kirkland
#40333
Jesse Saint writes:
> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
process
> in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register the
airplane
> before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you actually have
to
> have your certificate of registration back from the FAA before you can
get
> signed off to fly? I was told that I have to get a bill-of-sale from
Van's
> to accompany my registration. From my research, no bill of sale is
required
> if I built more than 50% of the plane myself, which I did. Yes, it
very
> highly resembles a plane that over 400 other people are working on,
but I
> built it and I can call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am
the
> builder so I don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say
that I
> need a copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3
different
> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
affidavit to
> be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of registration,
attach a
> letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6 weeks for a
certificate."
>
>
>
> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
in?
> Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I keep)
copy of
> the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> This actually brings up an interesting subject. I would like to hear
> other peoples experience with the states knocking on their door for
> the taxes. I have heard everything from "never asked for a dime" to
> "wouldn't let me register until I paid". My immediate concern is for
> Texas and Wisconsin. I'm currently in Texas but might be back in
> Wisconsin by the time I finish it. Which also makes me wonder if I
> can get away with not having to pay taxes on the parts I got in TX
> should I move to WI (doubt it but worth attempting). I don't recall
> but I believe people have suggested that TX doesn't usually bother
> collecting on experimental unless you do something to really draw
> attention, like build a IV-P. I'm not going to try and avoid the
> taxman but I'm certainly not going looking for him either and this is
> always a very gray area from state to state.
>
> Maybe Tim can keep a table on his site with states and if taxes were
> collected.
>
> Michael
>
Probably should have said ..... I'm in FL, and they definitely do want
their share. I buy/sell airplanes in a little brokers business, and on
every one I buy I get a letter a few months later from the tax man. I
just reply that it's for resale (it is the business after all!) and it's
a non-issue. The other way state gov'ts find out what came into the
state is through the trucking companies that deliver your stuff. Not
sure how or where the data is transferred, but some friends of mine got
tax bills on computers they bought over the internet! Sly devels, those
tax guys!
Linn ..... Valkaria Aircraft Brokers
do not archive
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter@grandecom.net>
Thanks for the research info Tim. You may have just saved me some money that
I can spend on Tequila :>} It's different than what they told me when I
talked to them at Sun-N-Fun, but maybe I had to much Tequila that day.
Wayne E RV-10 #336
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I just got off the phone with Andrew at TruTrak to verify
> a bit of functionality regarding Autopilot selection esp. in
> regards to the Chelton system that I got.
>
> I now have the 100% answer that yes, IF you have a Chelton system,
> and a Digiflight II VSVG, you will be able to fly an ILS approach
> with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly a GPS approach
> with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly to a VOR
> using a NAV signal. If you do NOT have a Chelton system not all of
> this is possible at this time (Although I believe the GRT stuff will
> let you do the lateral navigation...just not the vertical at this time).
>
> The issue is that the TruTrak is a digital autopilot, and therefore
> needs a digital signal. The ILS is an analog signal out of the
> Nav Radio. But, if you interface something like the SL-30 to the
> Chelton, now the Chelton receives the NAV signal, and you use the
> Chelton to control the autopilot digitally. So, you now have the
> capability.
>
> He also verified that IF you have a Chelton, there is nothing
> that you will gain of any significance by going to a Sorcerer
> at this time, since you obtain a full feature set in conjunction
> with the Chelton. "Save your money" was the word. Of course,
> you can spend the extra if you wish.
>
> Yes, the Digiflight IIVSVG WITH the Chelton can do Altitude Pre-select
> right now. The DFIIVSVG will also be getting an upgrade in the
> near future to add Altitude pre-select to it directly, without
> the Chelton.
>
> One other area that is still fuzzy was this: The GNS480 may possibly
> be able to also control the DFIIVSVG Vertical nav control. It will
> depend on if the GNS480 outputs a digital signal for the GPS approach
> and the ILS approach, or just the GPS. If I learn more I'll pass
> it on.
>
> He was also in agreement with my plan to have a selection switch on
> my panel that allows me to select which system is the input to my
> Autopilot. Like a switch for "Chelton <---> GNS480". That way
> you can lose the Chelton and still have whatever function in relation
> to the GNS480 that you have.
>
> As far as his stance on the legality of this all, he feels it's legal
> to fly their autopilot coupled to the Chelton's system for an ILS,
> or a GPS approach. He understands (as I have been finding) that some
> of these issues depend on who you talk to, because there is always
> the person on each extreme...one who insists the whole panel must
> be TSO'd, and one who thinks that since we're homebuilt that anything
> goes. I don't know that we'll ever 100% conclusively answer those
> questions. I hesitate to take a manufacturer's word on it, but hey,
> it's not like even people at the FAA haven't had differing opinions
> from time to time, right? Anyway, this email isn't really about
> legal status's, but functionality.
>
> So, those who spend the money on a Chelton, can save over $3,000 up
> front on their autopilot because they won't need the sorcerer.
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Mike, a large number of California owned aircraft are illegally registered in Oregon
to attempt tax avoidance back home. Some have gotten past the system. Each
state is different. Oregon is about to implement a computerized registration
system to identify and pursue the perps from out of state. We had a big problem
with Recreational vehicles a few years ago. The advantageous Cirrus SR22
federal investment tax code last year had lots of hangar's storing these shiney
new aircraft, as the factory was pushing them out the door to beat the deadline.
One friend kept three Cirrus out of the collectors eye.
Look at Rule 138, Chapter 1 State Board of Equalization - for CA. Also read Assessor's Handbook Section 577 - Assessment of General Aircraft. Copies of the revised draft are posted on the Board's Web site at www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/ah577sch.htm. Chapter 2 is about Discovery and their methods for finding and dealing with the perps. Many states are looking to the revenue enhancement used by California as a role model for their state. And to think California can't track illegal aliens. In Colorado, it was beneficial to declare it early during the kit process and establish a lower base with the VANS invoice dollar number. Several states have gotten wiser with the Ebay post a while back of $285,000 for the "yet to be completed" RV-10. Do your research, seek competent tax counsel. It can be money well spent on panel upgrades.
John Cox - KUAO
Licensed Tax Preparer
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
This actually brings up an interesting subject. I would like to hear other peoples
experience with the states knocking on their door for the taxes. I have heard
everything from "never asked for a dime" to "wouldn't let me register until
I paid". My immediate concern is for Texas and Wisconsin. I'm currently in Texas
but might be back in Wisconsin by the time I finish it. Which also makes
me wonder if I can get away with not having to pay taxes on the parts I got in
TX should I move to WI (doubt it but worth attempting). I don't recall but I
believe people have suggested that TX doesn't usually bother collecting on experimental
unless you do something to really draw attention, like build a IV-P.
I'm not going to try and avoid the taxman but I'm certainly not going looking
for him either and this is always avery grayarea from state to state.
Maybe Tim can keep a table on his site with states and if taxes were collected.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Keep in mind that most states scan the FAA database on new registrations to get
the cost listed on the bill of sale. The states then use this documented cost
to charge you sales tax on the unreported purchase. You may even be subject to
penalties if they want to get nastier. Some states even have their own 'schedule'
.... and will use a comparable airframe (like a 4-place Cessna .... I know
that's not comparable, but state Gov't does what it wants) as a basis for the
tax. Be afraid .....
be very afraid. And careful what you supply the Feds.
Linn
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
> The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
> for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
> is this:
>
> When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
> Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and small
> from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
> Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale from
> Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine, plus one
> from the Avionics suppliers?
>
> Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since I should
> soon be able to request that from Van's just to get a jump on
> gathering papers and forms.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> Greg Young wrote:
>
>> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
>> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
>> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
>> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
>> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
>> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
>> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
>> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
>> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
>> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
>> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
>> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
>> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
>> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
>> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
>> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
>> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
>> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
>> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
>> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
>> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
>> that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can
>> call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I
>> don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a
>> copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
>> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
>> affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of
>> registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6
>> weeks for a certificate."
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
>> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
>> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>>
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>>
>> www.itecusa.org
>>
>> W: 352-465-4545
>>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>>
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
====================================
RV10-List Email Forum -
bsp;
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
No problem, if you still have any doubts, feel free to contact them
directly and they said they'd be more than happy to answer the
questions. If you're ever in a situation where you just have too
much money and don't need any more tequila, I'll send you my
address so you can just mail me some. ;)
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Wayne Edgerton wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter@grandecom.net>
>
> Thanks for the research info Tim. You may have just saved me some money
> that I can spend on Tequila :>} It's different than what they told me
> when I talked to them at Sun-N-Fun, but maybe I had to much Tequila
> that day.
>
> Wayne E RV-10 #336
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: "RV10" <RV10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:36 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I just got off the phone with Andrew at TruTrak to verify
>> a bit of functionality regarding Autopilot selection esp. in
>> regards to the Chelton system that I got.
>>
>> I now have the 100% answer that yes, IF you have a Chelton system,
>> and a Digiflight II VSVG, you will be able to fly an ILS approach
>> with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly a GPS approach
>> with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly to a VOR
>> using a NAV signal. If you do NOT have a Chelton system not all of
>> this is possible at this time (Although I believe the GRT stuff will
>> let you do the lateral navigation...just not the vertical at this time).
>>
>> The issue is that the TruTrak is a digital autopilot, and therefore
>> needs a digital signal. The ILS is an analog signal out of the
>> Nav Radio. But, if you interface something like the SL-30 to the
>> Chelton, now the Chelton receives the NAV signal, and you use the
>> Chelton to control the autopilot digitally. So, you now have the
>> capability.
>>
>> He also verified that IF you have a Chelton, there is nothing
>> that you will gain of any significance by going to a Sorcerer
>> at this time, since you obtain a full feature set in conjunction
>> with the Chelton. "Save your money" was the word. Of course,
>> you can spend the extra if you wish.
>>
>> Yes, the Digiflight IIVSVG WITH the Chelton can do Altitude Pre-select
>> right now. The DFIIVSVG will also be getting an upgrade in the
>> near future to add Altitude pre-select to it directly, without
>> the Chelton.
>>
>> One other area that is still fuzzy was this: The GNS480 may possibly
>> be able to also control the DFIIVSVG Vertical nav control. It will
>> depend on if the GNS480 outputs a digital signal for the GPS approach
>> and the ILS approach, or just the GPS. If I learn more I'll pass
>> it on.
>>
>> He was also in agreement with my plan to have a selection switch on
>> my panel that allows me to select which system is the input to my
>> Autopilot. Like a switch for "Chelton <---> GNS480". That way
>> you can lose the Chelton and still have whatever function in relation
>> to the GNS480 that you have.
>>
>> As far as his stance on the legality of this all, he feels it's legal
>> to fly their autopilot coupled to the Chelton's system for an ILS,
>> or a GPS approach. He understands (as I have been finding) that some
>> of these issues depend on who you talk to, because there is always
>> the person on each extreme...one who insists the whole panel must
>> be TSO'd, and one who thinks that since we're homebuilt that anything
>> goes. I don't know that we'll ever 100% conclusively answer those
>> questions. I hesitate to take a manufacturer's word on it, but hey,
>> it's not like even people at the FAA haven't had differing opinions
>> from time to time, right? Anyway, this email isn't really about
>> legal status's, but functionality.
>>
>> So, those who spend the money on a Chelton, can save over $3,000 up
>> front on their autopilot because they won't need the sorcerer.
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
Tim's webpage data:
For the 2005-07 Biennium, Oregon will remain at $50 for Single-engine
Fixed Wing Aircraft (piston or turboprop), Multi-engine Piston $75,
Multi-engine turboprop $100, piston helicopters $50, turbine helicopters
$100. Then they hit you with the fuel tax on every gallon. No wonder
Oregon has such a poorly maintained airport system. Sounds a little like
Massachusetts (with no tax) and is probably why Artex, Garmin, Lancair,
Columbia, VANS, Oregon Aero and Composites Unlimited are on this coast
in our sleepy little state.
John - KUAO
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
This actually brings up an interesting subject. I would like to hear
other peoples experience with the states knocking on their door for the
taxes. I have heard everything from "never asked for a dime" to
"wouldn't let me register until I paid". My immediate concern is for
Texas and Wisconsin. I'm currently in Texas but might be back in
Wisconsin by the time I finish it. Which also makes me wonder if I can
get away with not having to pay taxes on the parts I got in TX should I
move to WI (doubt it but worth attempting). I don't recall but I
believe people have suggested that TX doesn't usually bother collecting
on experimental unless you do something to really draw attention, like
build a IV-P. I'm not going to try and avoid the taxman but I'm
certainly not going looking for him either and this is always a very
gray area from state to state.
Maybe Tim can keep a table on his site with states and if taxes were
collected.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Keep in mind that most states scan the FAA database on new registrations
to get the cost listed on the bill of sale. The states then use this
documented cost to charge you sales tax on the unreported purchase. You
may even be subject to penalties if they want to get nastier. Some
states even have their own 'schedule' .... and will use a comparable
airframe (like a 4-place Cessna .... I know that's not comparable, but
state Gov't does what it wants) as a basis for the tax. Be afraid .....
be very afraid. And careful what you supply the Feds.
Linn
do not archive
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
Don't freak on the Bill of Sale. It's the FAA carbon paper triplicate form that
forms the basis of the ownership trail. It does not contain a dollar figure.
You need the "official" form which Van's will provide. They type "Kit Plane" across
the top and their name as seller and yours as buyer (actually it make be
blank, it's been a while) and send it to you. All you need to provide them is
your builder number and confirm your address. I believe they want you to have
ordered the finish kit before they will send it. Make sure the form has the legal
name(s) the way you want to register the aircraft. All other forms following
it will need to match the names and aircraft exactly. There is a bunch of
info on registering in the RV-List archives. This is certainly an area where you
guys can take advantage of the 2-place (remember them?:-) archives rather than
re-learning the process.
Greg
________________________________
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Greg,
I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
is this:
When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and
small from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale
from Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine,
plus one from the Avionics suppliers?
Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since
I should soon be able to request that from Van's just to get
a jump on gathering papers and forms.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Greg Young wrote:
> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>
> Greg
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost |
Tim, you and I seem to be at the same sport. I ended up doing
the same thing for the nutplates on the baggage door jam. I drilled the
rivet hole to come out the back and then enlarged this hole to 1/4" and
back riveted it using a hammer and punch on a backing plate.
As for the most forward rivet on the rear side seat pans, I also
left this rivet out. I called Van's about it and explain to Bruce there
is no way to get this rivet because you can't get to either side of the
rivet with the gun. He went on to say you can use a pop rivet at a 15
degree angle, but I said it would be more like a 70 degree angle and it
wouldn't work. If you look at the drawing that show the rear floor pan,
you will notice they don't even show this hole exists, so I wonder if
this was added later not thinking about how it would be set.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 Floor Pans all rivet on.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I found 2 "impossible" rivets, and the solution to one of them. QB
fuse, by the way.
#1 is on the baggage door latch bracket that goes on the fuselage.
There are 2 nutplates to attach. 2 of those 4 rivets are not
accessible by squeezer or bucking bar. I did, however,
find that I have a very small flat squeezer set and I could drill
a hole and enlarge with a unibit in the flange underneath the
rivet, and get the squeezer through. I just don't know how else
you'd do it. Here's a couple of photos.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260017.html
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260016.html
The other impossible rivets are on the very forward hole of the
rear seat panels, on the sidewalls. There are holes that are completely
inaccessible by rivet gun, or pop rivet tool. This photo shows the
location, a couple inches NorthEast of the rivet set.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505250013.html
Short of drilling a hole through my seat bracket, which is NOT
worth it, I can't find a way to fill that hole. The ones on the
other side of the floor panel by the tunnel could be popped in
from the tunnel side I suppose, but you'd have an ugle rivet
sticking into the seating area. For now I'm just going to leave
them empty. If I got desperate, I'd GLUE in a rivet for looks...
then everyone would think I figured out the secret. :)
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
The bill of sales from Van's does not have any prices for any kits on
it. It merely states that you purchased a kit with the model number.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Greg,
I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
is this:
When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and
small from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale
from Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine,
plus one from the Avionics suppliers?
Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since
I should soon be able to request that from Van's just to get
a jump on gathering papers and forms.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Greg Young wrote:
> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>
> Greg
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>
>
>
> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
> that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can
> call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I
> don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a
> copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
> affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of
> registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6
> weeks for a certificate."
>
>
>
> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, we really are at the same exact spot! Hey, can you send your
photos again? The first one came out all screwy.
Very pretty inside with that gold primer. I wish I'd have gone
that route on the fuselage I think. All of my green will be hidden
though, and at least it'll be easy to see stuff leaking on it.
You're QB or slow build? Must be quick to be that far, huh?
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> Tim, you and I seem to be at the same sport. I ended up doing
> the same thing for the nutplates on the baggage door jam. I drilled the
> rivet hole to come out the back and then enlarged this hole to 1/4" and
> back riveted it using a hammer and punch on a backing plate.
> As for the most forward rivet on the rear side seat pans, I also
> left this rivet out. I called Van's about it and explain to Bruce there
> is no way to get this rivet because you can't get to either side of the
> rivet with the gun. He went on to say you can use a pop rivet at a 15
> degree angle, but I said it would be more like a 70 degree angle and it
> wouldn't work. If you look at the drawing that show the rear floor pan,
> you will notice they don't even show this hole exists, so I wonder if
> this was added later not thinking about how it would be set.
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250 Floor Pans all rivet on.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:16 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I found 2 "impossible" rivets, and the solution to one of them. QB
> fuse, by the way.
>
> #1 is on the baggage door latch bracket that goes on the fuselage.
> There are 2 nutplates to attach. 2 of those 4 rivets are not
> accessible by squeezer or bucking bar. I did, however,
> find that I have a very small flat squeezer set and I could drill
> a hole and enlarge with a unibit in the flange underneath the
> rivet, and get the squeezer through. I just don't know how else
> you'd do it. Here's a couple of photos.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260017.html
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260016.html
>
>
> The other impossible rivets are on the very forward hole of the
> rear seat panels, on the sidewalls. There are holes that are completely
> inaccessible by rivet gun, or pop rivet tool. This photo shows the
> location, a couple inches NorthEast of the rivet set.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505250013.html
> Short of drilling a hole through my seat bracket, which is NOT
> worth it, I can't find a way to fill that hole. The ones on the
> other side of the floor panel by the tunnel could be popped in
> from the tunnel side I suppose, but you'd have an ugle rivet
> sticking into the seating area. For now I'm just going to leave
> them empty. If I got desperate, I'd GLUE in a rivet for looks...
> then everyone would think I figured out the secret. :)
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1@swbell.net>
"I now have the 100% answer that yes, IF you have a Chelton system,
and a Digiflight II VSVG, you will be able to fly an ILS approach
with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly a GPS approach
with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly to a VOR
using a NAV signal."
Tim,
Thanks for the report. I wonder where the Digiflight gets it's vertical
guidance for a GPS approach. Is it from the HITS? I know with HITS, any
runway can be chosen and it will give you the nice little boxes down to the
TDZ. Maybe this is where it comes from?
Mark
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1@swbell.net>
Tim, I posted this message earlier, but it never showed up, so here it is
again:
"I now have the 100% answer that yes, IF you have a Chelton system,
and a Digiflight II VSVG, you will be able to fly an ILS approach
with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly a GPS approach
with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly to a VOR
using a NAV signal."
Thanks for the report. I wonder where the Digiflight gets it's vertical
guidance for a GPS approach. Is it from the HITS? I know with HITS, any
runway can be chosen and it will give you the nice little boxes down to the
TDZ. Maybe this is where it comes from?
Mark
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost |
Give me a call any time on my Cell. 913) 226-0106
I'm slow build all the way. It has taken me 3 months and 300
hours to get the fuse to the Quick Build stage. I figure that means I
made $5350/300 or $17.83 an hour. The primer is PPG Armor Grip and I
love the way it looks and applies. It sticks very well to just a clean
alcad surface.
I currently have 890 hours in on my project. I'm thinking I am
almost at the half way point. I am expecting to be flying in 2000 hours
with everything painted and completed. I am targeting fall of 06 for
first flight, how about you?
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, we really are at the same exact spot! Hey, can you send your
photos again? The first one came out all screwy.
Very pretty inside with that gold primer. I wish I'd have gone
that route on the fuselage I think. All of my green will be hidden
though, and at least it'll be easy to see stuff leaking on it.
You're QB or slow build? Must be quick to be that far, huh?
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> Tim, you and I seem to be at the same sport. I ended up doing
> the same thing for the nutplates on the baggage door jam. I drilled
the
> rivet hole to come out the back and then enlarged this hole to 1/4"
and
> back riveted it using a hammer and punch on a backing plate.
> As for the most forward rivet on the rear side seat pans, I also
> left this rivet out. I called Van's about it and explain to Bruce
there
> is no way to get this rivet because you can't get to either side of
the
> rivet with the gun. He went on to say you can use a pop rivet at a 15
> degree angle, but I said it would be more like a 70 degree angle and
it
> wouldn't work. If you look at the drawing that show the rear floor
pan,
> you will notice they don't even show this hole exists, so I wonder if
> this was added later not thinking about how it would be set.
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250 Floor Pans all rivet on.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:16 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I found 2 "impossible" rivets, and the solution to one of them. QB
> fuse, by the way.
>
> #1 is on the baggage door latch bracket that goes on the fuselage.
> There are 2 nutplates to attach. 2 of those 4 rivets are not
> accessible by squeezer or bucking bar. I did, however,
> find that I have a very small flat squeezer set and I could drill
> a hole and enlarge with a unibit in the flange underneath the
> rivet, and get the squeezer through. I just don't know how else
> you'd do it. Here's a couple of photos.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260017.html
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260016.html
>
>
> The other impossible rivets are on the very forward hole of the
> rear seat panels, on the sidewalls. There are holes that are
completely
> inaccessible by rivet gun, or pop rivet tool. This photo shows the
> location, a couple inches NorthEast of the rivet set.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505250013.html
> Short of drilling a hole through my seat bracket, which is NOT
> worth it, I can't find a way to fill that hole. The ones on the
> other side of the floor panel by the tunnel could be popped in
> from the tunnel side I suppose, but you'd have an ugle rivet
> sticking into the seating area. For now I'm just going to leave
> them empty. If I got desperate, I'd GLUE in a rivet for looks...
> then everyone would think I figured out the secret. :)
>
> Tim
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I should clarify that....for a GPS approach, I'm intending to
mean GPS WAAS where there is a "glideslope" to fly via GPS.
A plain-vanilla GPS approach wouldn't necessarily be
included. You're right about the HITS though. Basically,
you leave the AP in a mode that is used for GPSS and GPS
control, and it will take both lateral and vertical commands
from the Chelton. So whatever you tell the chelton to fly
should be able to be flown by the autopilot....including
minimum altitude on the chelton, and such. Your Chelton
system is in command of the autopilot. That's why I'd still
put in the switch to allow you to have the autopilot
controlled directly from the GNS480....gives you more
options.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Mark & Kelly wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1@swbell.net>
>
> "I now have the 100% answer that yes, IF you have a Chelton system,
> and a Digiflight II VSVG, you will be able to fly an ILS approach
> with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly a GPS approach
> with vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly to a VOR
> using a NAV signal."
>
> Tim,
> Thanks for the report. I wonder where the Digiflight gets it's vertical
> guidance for a GPS approach. Is it from the HITS? I know with HITS,
> any runway can be chosen and it will give you the nice little boxes down
> to the TDZ. Maybe this is where it comes from?
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Count me also as in almost exactly the same spot (all slow build). I
just got to the section where brake pedals are made. I want to get
paint on the interior before much gets in the way so I'll probably
pause, put the rear seat backs together and then get paint on the
interior before continuing.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RE: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
Give me a call any time on my Cell. 913) 226-0106
I'm slow build all the way. It has taken me 3 months and 300
hours to get the fuse to the Quick Build stage. I figure that means I
made $5350/300 or $17.83 an hour. The primer is PPG Armor Grip and I
love the way it looks and applies. It sticks very well to just a clean
alcad surface.
I currently have 890 hours in on my project. I'm thinking I am
almost at the half way point. I am expecting to be flying in 2000 hours
with everything painted and completed. I am targeting fall of 06 for
first flight, how about you?
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, we really are at the same exact spot! Hey, can you send your
photos again? The first one came out all screwy.
Very pretty inside with that gold primer. I wish I'd have gone
that route on the fuselage I think. All of my green will be hidden
though, and at least it'll be easy to see stuff leaking on it.
You're QB or slow build? Must be quick to be that far, huh?
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> Tim, you and I seem to be at the same sport. I ended up doing
> the same thing for the nutplates on the baggage door jam. I drilled
the
> rivet hole to come out the back and then enlarged this hole to 1/4"
and
> back riveted it using a hammer and punch on a backing plate.
> As for the most forward rivet on the rear side seat pans, I also
> left this rivet out. I called Van's about it and explain to Bruce
there
> is no way to get this rivet because you can't get to either side of
the
> rivet with the gun. He went on to say you can use a pop rivet at a 15
> degree angle, but I said it would be more like a 70 degree angle and
it
> wouldn't work. If you look at the drawing that show the rear floor
pan,
> you will notice they don't even show this hole exists, so I wonder if
> this was added later not thinking about how it would be set.
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250 Floor Pans all rivet on.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:16 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I found 2 "impossible" rivets, and the solution to one of them. QB
> fuse, by the way.
>
> #1 is on the baggage door latch bracket that goes on the fuselage.
> There are 2 nutplates to attach. 2 of those 4 rivets are not
> accessible by squeezer or bucking bar. I did, however,
> find that I have a very small flat squeezer set and I could drill
> a hole and enlarge with a unibit in the flange underneath the
> rivet, and get the squeezer through. I just don't know how else
> you'd do it. Here's a couple of photos.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260017.html
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260016.html
>
>
> The other impossible rivets are on the very forward hole of the
> rear seat panels, on the sidewalls. There are holes that are
completely
> inaccessible by rivet gun, or pop rivet tool. This photo shows the
> location, a couple inches NorthEast of the rivet set.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505250013.html
> Short of drilling a hole through my seat bracket, which is NOT
> worth it, I can't find a way to fill that hole. The ones on the
> other side of the floor panel by the tunnel could be popped in
> from the tunnel side I suppose, but you'd have an ugle rivet
> sticking into the seating area. For now I'm just going to leave
> them empty. If I got desperate, I'd GLUE in a rivet for looks...
> then everyone would think I figured out the secret. :)
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
====================================
====================================
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Man you're killin' me! I'm heading for the mid 600's for hours right
now, and I was hoping that I was about 1/2 way there...figured I was
just about that far. But, my overall estimate is that I'd be
at about 1600 when completed. I guess this isn't really that far
off from you, but I was really hoping that my target date would
be something closer to March 2006.....and if I really hustled,
perhaps the end of 2005. I absolutely want to have it done
by this time next year, one way or the other. If I have to,
I'll pick up those guys at wal-mart holding up the "will work
for food" signs, and bring them home and put them to their word. ;)
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
>
> I'm slow build all the way. It has taken me 3 months and 300
> hours to get the fuse to the Quick Build stage. I figure that means I
> made $5350/300 or $17.83 an hour. The primer is PPG Armor Grip and I
> love the way it looks and applies. It sticks very well to just a clean
> alcad surface.
> I currently have 890 hours in on my project. I'm thinking I am
> almost at the half way point. I am expecting to be flying in 2000 hours
> with everything painted and completed. I am targeting fall of 06 for
> first flight, how about you?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:27 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Wow, we really are at the same exact spot! Hey, can you send your
> photos again? The first one came out all screwy.
>
> Very pretty inside with that gold primer. I wish I'd have gone
> that route on the fuselage I think. All of my green will be hidden
> though, and at least it'll be easy to see stuff leaking on it.
>
> You're QB or slow build? Must be quick to be that far, huh?
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
>
>> Tim, you and I seem to be at the same sport. I ended up doing
>>the same thing for the nutplates on the baggage door jam. I drilled
>
> the
>
>>rivet hole to come out the back and then enlarged this hole to 1/4"
>
> and
>
>>back riveted it using a hammer and punch on a backing plate.
>> As for the most forward rivet on the rear side seat pans, I also
>>left this rivet out. I called Van's about it and explain to Bruce
>
> there
>
>>is no way to get this rivet because you can't get to either side of
>
> the
>
>>rivet with the gun. He went on to say you can use a pop rivet at a 15
>>degree angle, but I said it would be more like a 70 degree angle and
>
> it
>
>>wouldn't work. If you look at the drawing that show the rear floor
>
> pan,
>
>>you will notice they don't even show this hole exists, so I wonder if
>>this was added later not thinking about how it would be set.
>>
>>
>>
>>Thank You
>>Ray Doerr
>>40250 Floor Pans all rivet on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:16 PM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>>I found 2 "impossible" rivets, and the solution to one of them. QB
>>fuse, by the way.
>>
>>#1 is on the baggage door latch bracket that goes on the fuselage.
>>There are 2 nutplates to attach. 2 of those 4 rivets are not
>>accessible by squeezer or bucking bar. I did, however,
>>find that I have a very small flat squeezer set and I could drill
>>a hole and enlarge with a unibit in the flange underneath the
>>rivet, and get the squeezer through. I just don't know how else
>>you'd do it. Here's a couple of photos.
>>
>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260017.html
>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260016.html
>>
>>
>>The other impossible rivets are on the very forward hole of the
>>rear seat panels, on the sidewalls. There are holes that are
>
> completely
>
>>inaccessible by rivet gun, or pop rivet tool. This photo shows the
>>location, a couple inches NorthEast of the rivet set.
>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505250013.html
>>Short of drilling a hole through my seat bracket, which is NOT
>>worth it, I can't find a way to fill that hole. The ones on the
>>other side of the floor panel by the tunnel could be popped in
>>from the tunnel side I suppose, but you'd have an ugle rivet
>>sticking into the seating area. For now I'm just going to leave
>>them empty. If I got desperate, I'd GLUE in a rivet for looks...
>>then everyone would think I figured out the secret. :)
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
That was EXACTLY what I was thinking....get those seats done, then
paint...in fact, I'm leaving work right now to go to the paint
shop to see what color I might be liking.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> Count me also as in almost exactly the same spot (all slow build). I
> just got to the section where brake pedals are made. I want to get
> paint on the interior before much gets in the way so I'll probably
> pause, put the rear seat backs together and then get paint on the
> interior before continuing.
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 2:02 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> Give me a call any time on my Cell. 913) 226-0106
>
> I'm slow build all the way. It has taken me 3 months and 300
> hours to get the fuse to the Quick Build stage. I figure that means I
> made $5350/300 or $17.83 an hour. The primer is PPG Armor Grip and I
> love the way it looks and applies. It sticks very well to just a clean
> alcad surface.
> I currently have 890 hours in on my project. I'm thinking I am
> almost at the half way point. I am expecting to be flying in 2000 hours
> with everything painted and completed. I am targeting fall of 06 for
> first flight, how about you?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:27 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Wow, we really are at the same exact spot! Hey, can you send your
> photos again? The first one came out all screwy.
>
> Very pretty inside with that gold primer. I wish I'd have gone
> that route on the fuselage I think. All of my green will be hidden
> though, and at least it'll be easy to see stuff leaking on it.
>
> You're QB or slow build? Must be quick to be that far, huh?
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
> Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
>
>> Tim, you and I seem to be at the same sport. I ended up doing
>>the same thing for the nutplates on the baggage door jam. I drilled
>
> the
>
>>rivet hole to come out the back and then enlarged this hole to 1/4"
>
> and
>
>>back riveted it using a hammer and punch on a backing plate.
>> As for the most forward rivet on the rear side seat pans, I also
>>left this rivet out. I called Van's about it and explain to Bruce
>
> there
>
>>is no way to get this rivet because you can't get to either side of
>
> the
>
>>rivet with the gun. He went on to say you can use a pop rivet at a 15
>>degree angle, but I said it would be more like a 70 degree angle and
>
> it
>
>>wouldn't work. If you look at the drawing that show the rear floor
>
> pan,
>
>>you will notice they don't even show this hole exists, so I wonder if
>>this was added later not thinking about how it would be set.
>>
>>
>>
>>Thank You
>>Ray Doerr
>>40250 Floor Pans all rivet on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:16 PM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>>I found 2 "impossible" rivets, and the solution to one of them. QB
>>fuse, by the way.
>>
>>#1 is on the baggage door latch bracket that goes on the fuselage.
>>There are 2 nutplates to attach. 2 of those 4 rivets are not
>>accessible by squeezer or bucking bar. I did, however,
>>find that I have a very small flat squeezer set and I could drill
>>a hole and enlarge with a unibit in the flange underneath the
>>rivet, and get the squeezer through. I just don't know how else
>>you'd do it. Here's a couple of photos.
>>
>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260017.html
>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260016.html
>>
>>
>>The other impossible rivets are on the very forward hole of the
>>rear seat panels, on the sidewalls. There are holes that are
>
> completely
>
>>inaccessible by rivet gun, or pop rivet tool. This photo shows the
>>location, a couple inches NorthEast of the rivet set.
>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505250013.html
>>Short of drilling a hole through my seat bracket, which is NOT
>>worth it, I can't find a way to fill that hole. The ones on the
>>other side of the floor panel by the tunnel could be popped in
>>from the tunnel side I suppose, but you'd have an ugle rivet
>>sticking into the seating area. For now I'm just going to leave
>>them empty. If I got desperate, I'd GLUE in a rivet for looks...
>>then everyone would think I figured out the secret. :)
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I searched the archives but couldn't find a specific discussion on this, so
I apologize if it's redundant. I'm trying to decide on an O-540 vs IO-540
for my RV-10. Some thoughts I had were:
Pluses for the IO-540:
No icing problems
More even burn between cylinders
Pluses for the O-540
Cheaper to overhaul the fuel system
Lower pressure aux fuel pump (ie much cheaper)
Potential to use auto fuel
I've had an IO-540 C4B5 before on my Skybolt and it was a great engine and I
am leaning toward that for the RV-10. However I'd sure appreciate any other
considerations, ideas and suggestions.
Thanks,
Marcus
QB fuselage will be here Thursday!
Message 33
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I searched the archives but couldn't find a specific discussion on this, so
I apologize if it's redundant. I'm trying to decide on an O-540 vs IO-540
for my RV-10. Some thoughts I had were:
Pluses for the IO-540:
No icing problems
More even burn between cylinders
Pluses for the O-540
Cheaper to overhaul the fuel system
Lower pressure aux fuel pump (ie much cheaper)
Potential to use auto fuel
I've had an IO-540 C4B5 before on my Skybolt and it was a great engine so I
am leaning toward that for the RV-10. However I'd sure appreciate any other
considerations, ideas and suggestions.
Thanks,
Marcus
QB fuselage will be here Thursday!
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Rear Headset Jacks |
Here's a question for those that are almost finished - where are you
locating the rear seat headset jacks? Has anybody noticed where Van's
has them in the factory planes?
Bob #40105
Message 35
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| Subject: | If you are getting close to flying read this! |
I just wanted anyone who is getting close you need to make sure that you
send in you registration form with your 5:00. This form is a must BEFORE YOU
CAN HAVE AN INSPECTION!!. I know Doug has got caught on this and is waiting
until the form comes back. It takes (best case) 3 weeks and figure on a
month before you get the white Registration card back with the serial number
of the air craft registered in your name. Randy
By the way as of Monday night I have 18 hours on the plane and everything is
working fine.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Headset Jacks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I'm thinking probably on that armrest just below the air vents
and up close to that vertical support.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
> Heres a question for those that are almost finished where are you
> locating the rear seat headset jacks? Has anybody noticed where Vans
> has them in the factory planes?
>
>
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
>
Message 37
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
You need some rudder in climb out but on Monday I did a climb to 9500
ft. and leveled off. I was still climbing at 1000 ft a min. at 9500 ft.
I have myself and an additional 175 lbs of shot bags, 25 lbs of
paperwork and laptop, and full fuel. That was cool seeing that climb
rate that high. I think that the climb outs will be so short and the
amount of rudder pressure is so light that it won't be worth the
addition. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Kirkland
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trim
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Kirkland"
--> <jskirkland@webpipe.net>
Hope Randy sees this now that there's a flying airplane in the group. I
was wondering if anyone that has flown one of the RV-10's has thought
that it needed a means of rudder trim? After flying 4.2 hrs XC yesterday
it occurred to me that stepping on the ball during climbout gets old
after a while, and I like the Cessna 182 rudder rim wheel so you can
center the ball once climb is established and you're not so busy. Not
sure if anyone would notice this in a quick demo flight, but by now I'm
sure Randy would know!
John Kirkland
#40333
Message 38
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
I talked to the factory guys about this and they think that every 10
will need almost the same amount of trim block or something else mounted
on the rudder. This came after my comment that the plane fly's so much
like the factory plane. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hasbrouck
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rudder Trim
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck"
--> <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
If you look at both of Vans -10s they have a fixed wedge screwed to the
trailing edge of the rudder on the left side I think. I assume this was
to provide some trim for right rudder deflection. Anyone else notice
these.....
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 39
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| Subject: | Filling pin holes |
I have what might be the best method. We use this method now and it
works out very nice. Take some 3M Flowable finishing putty. Use 3M
brand it is much easier to sand then the others. Mix it as usual and
then thin it with Acetone until it is the consistency of paint. Use a
small paint roller about 3" wide and roll it on a sanded cowl. If it
isn't completely filled in spots you will see them and add another coat.
This stuff sands easy. Use 150 grit and them prime with K36 or what
ever high build primer you want. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: RV10-List: Filling pin holes
What's everyone doing/using to fill the pin holes? I use epoxy with
mircro baloons. I don't mind sanding but this stuff is hard as a rock
after it cures and a bear to sand. Of course I have filler over 75% of
the working surface because I see pin holes everywhere. Can smaller
holes be ignored because the primer will fill them later? I'm thinking
there might be an easier way or softer filler available to speed up the
sanding.
Anh
#141
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft (tax issue) |
RE: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built AircraftAs much as I hate it, I am making
a point of reporting my purchase to the state of Tennessee. The good news
is that the federal govt. passed legislation last year that makes some of the
state sales tax deductible on federal returns (our state for sure...maybe others).
Follow the link below and read down on the left hand side looking for
the link to the story "The sales tax gotcha".
http://www.tvrvbg.org/
Brian S.
Nashville, TN
Tailcone in progress...QB wings, fuse, and finish in August???
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
This actually brings up an interesting subject. I would like to hear other
peoples experience with the states knocking on their door for the taxes. I have
heard everything from "never asked for a dime" to "wouldn't let me register
until I paid". My immediate concern is for Texas and Wisconsin. I'm currently
in Texas but might be back in Wisconsin by the time I finish it. Which also
makes me wonder if I can get away with not having to pay taxes on the parts
I got in TX should I move to WI (doubt it but worth attempting). I don't recall
but I believe people have suggested that TX doesn't usually bother collecting
on experimental unless you do something to really draw attention, like build
a IV-P. I'm not going to try and avoid the taxman but I'm certainly not going
looking for him either and this is always a very gray area from state to state.
Maybe Tim can keep a table on his site with states and if taxes were collected.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:30 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Keep in mind that most states scan the FAA database on new registrations to get
the cost listed on the bill of sale. The states then use this documented cost
to charge you sales tax on the unreported purchase. You may even be subject
to penalties if they want to get nastier. Some states even have their own
'schedule' .... and will use a comparable airframe (like a 4-place Cessna ....
I know that's not comparable, but state Gov't does what it wants) as a basis
for the tax. Be afraid .....
be very afraid. And careful what you supply the Feds.
Linn
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
> The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
> for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
> is this:
>
> When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
> Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and small
> from Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
> Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale from
> Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine, plus one
> from the Avionics suppliers?
>
> Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since I should
> soon be able to request that from Van's just to get a jump on
> gathering papers and forms.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
>
> Greg Young wrote:
>
>> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
>> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
>> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
>> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
>> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
>> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
>> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
>> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
>> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
>> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
>> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the
>> paperwork right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as
>> possible and hope for the best. Good luck.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
>> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
>> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
>> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
>> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
>> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
>> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
>> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
>> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane
>> that over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can
>> call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I
>> don't need a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a
>> copy of my builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different
>> views of the plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the
>> affidavit to be named as the builder, fill out a certificate of
>> registration, attach a letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6
>> weeks for a certificate."
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
>> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
>> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>>
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>> jesse@itecusa.org
>>
>> www.itecusa.org
>>
>> W: 352-465-4545
>>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>>
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
RV10-List Email Forum -
bsp;
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 41
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
My reply is in red. Randy
I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register the
airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the FAA
before you can get signed off to fly?
Yes you have to have it in hand.
I was told that I have to get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my
registration.
Yes you have to call Van's and they will mail you a certified Bill of
Sale.
From my research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50%
of the plane myself, which I did.
Not true by what I was told.
Yes, it very highly resembles a plane that over 400 other people are
working on, but I built it and I can call it an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I
want, right?
Yes you can call it what ever you want.
I am the builder so I don't need a bill-of-sale?
Wrong. You need the bill of sale proving whom you bought the Kit from.
Some places it seems to say that I need a copy of my builder's log and
pictures or drawings of the 3 different views of the plane.
Yes you need 3 photos of the plane completed. One from each side with
the N numbers in place and one from the front. The FAA keeps these on
file for identification purposes.
Other places it just says, "fill out the affidavit to be named as the
builder
You need to have the affidavit sent in with your registration form. The
FAA uses the name on the affidavit as the builder. DO NOT PUT VAN'S OR
VAN'S AIRCRAFT AS THE BUILDER. You are the builder is DEBAUW, RANDEL J.
Model is RV10A
fill out a certificate of registration, attach a letter to request a
special N-number, wait 3-6 weeks for a certificate
The registration form is only available at a FSDO or have it mailed to
you by the FAA. You can't download it because it has carbon copy's
Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent in?
Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I keep)
copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
No you can't use the pink. It is not usable unless the you are changing
registration of an existing plane.
I will try to help anyone through this. It isn't easy but I did it so
anyone can. Randy
Thanks!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 42
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| Subject: | TruTrak / Chelton functionality update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Good info Tim. I can tell everyone that now that I am using the
Digiflight II VSG that it is very slick. It works just like you want it
to. When you want it to do another function like climb at 500 ft a min.
you just push ALT button and turn the knob to 500 ft up. If you want to
descend turn the know the other direction. There is a little arrow
showing which direction you want it to go up or down. If you want it to
just keep you on present course just turn it on and it sees what course
you are on an keeps you there with alt hold already on until you tell it
to do something different. Hit the mode button and it tracks the gps.
Hit mode again and it tracks the heading you are on again. Very Very
easy to use. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: TruTrak / Chelton functionality update
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I just got off the phone with Andrew at TruTrak to verify a bit of
functionality regarding Autopilot selection esp. in regards to the
Chelton system that I got.
I now have the 100% answer that yes, IF you have a Chelton system, and a
Digiflight II VSVG, you will be able to fly an ILS approach with
vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly a GPS approach with
vertical guidance, and you will be able to fly to a VOR
using a NAV signal. If you do NOT have a Chelton system not all of
this is possible at this time (Although I believe the GRT stuff will let
you do the lateral navigation...just not the vertical at this time).
The issue is that the TruTrak is a digital autopilot, and therefore
needs a digital signal. The ILS is an analog signal out of the Nav
Radio. But, if you interface something like the SL-30 to the Chelton,
now the Chelton receives the NAV signal, and you use the Chelton to
control the autopilot digitally. So, you now have the capability.
He also verified that IF you have a Chelton, there is nothing that you
will gain of any significance by going to a Sorcerer at this time, since
you obtain a full feature set in conjunction with the Chelton. "Save
your money" was the word. Of course, you can spend the extra if you
wish.
Yes, the Digiflight IIVSVG WITH the Chelton can do Altitude Pre-select
right now. The DFIIVSVG will also be getting an upgrade in the near
future to add Altitude pre-select to it directly, without the Chelton.
One other area that is still fuzzy was this: The GNS480 may possibly be
able to also control the DFIIVSVG Vertical nav control. It will depend
on if the GNS480 outputs a digital signal for the GPS approach and the
ILS approach, or just the GPS. If I learn more I'll pass it on.
He was also in agreement with my plan to have a selection switch on my
panel that allows me to select which system is the input to my
Autopilot. Like a switch for "Chelton <---> GNS480". That way you can
lose the Chelton and still have whatever function in relation to the
GNS480 that you have.
As far as his stance on the legality of this all, he feels it's legal to
fly their autopilot coupled to the Chelton's system for an ILS, or a GPS
approach. He understands (as I have been finding) that some of these
issues depend on who you talk to, because there is always the person on
each extreme...one who insists the whole panel must be TSO'd, and one
who thinks that since we're homebuilt that anything goes. I don't know
that we'll ever 100% conclusively answer those questions. I hesitate to
take a manufacturer's word on it, but hey, it's not like even people at
the FAA haven't had differing opinions from time to time, right?
Anyway, this email isn't really about legal status's, but functionality.
So, those who spend the money on a Chelton, can save over $3,000 up
front on their autopilot because they won't need the sorcerer.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Tank skin to baffle rivet question |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Narrow Deck Engine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sam Marlow <sam@fr8dog.net>
Just wondered if any one has experience on using Light Speed Ignition on
a narrow deck IO540? Or any solid state ignition on a narrow deck engine.
Sam Marlow
Fuselage
Message 45
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| Subject: | Registration of Home-Built Aircraft |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Tim there is only one bill of sale and that is for the tail kit number.
It is up to you when you get the bill of sale. They don't send them out
automatically because everyone was loosing before they needed them.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Greg,
I have now put my money down on all majory components from Van's.
The Airframe is completely delivered, I have the FWF kit paid
for an coming, and the Prop has a deposit down. My question
is this:
When asking for the Bill of Sale, which numbers do I really want?
Should I get a complete bill of sale for all parts large and small from
Van's, or only the major airframe sub-kits?
Like when I fill in the FAA paperwork, will I need a Bill of Sale from
Van's for all items, plus one from Aerosport for the engine, plus one
from the Avionics suppliers?
Just trying to get a feel for what I should be getting, since I should
soon be able to request that from Van's just to get a jump on gathering
papers and forms.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Greg Young wrote:
> Yes, you need to have it registered and have the original before the
> inspection. Yes, you need a bill of sale. They changed the "rules"
> for kit planes some time ago to require it. You'll also need the
> affidavit. Don't fight it unless you've got a lot of time to kill as
> you could risk getting your registration delayed. Call Van's and ask
> for the BOS - they are set up to do it quickly and will probably have
> it in your hands in a couple days. If you plan to use a DAR he should
> be able to provide you with a packet of info on all the steps you'll
> need to take before he shows up (there are others such as the program
> letter.) The FAA also has an info packet on the process. I wouldn't
> plan on being able to expedite the process. Just get all the paperwork
> right the first time and get it subemitted as quickly as possible and
> hope for the best. Good luck.
>
> Greg
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Tue 5/31/2005 5:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject:
> RV10-List: Registration of Home-Built Aircraft
>
>
>
> I have been learning a lot about this airplane registration/sign-off
> process in the last 2 days. I had no idea that you had to register
> the airplane before you could get the sign-off. Is it true that you
> actually have to have your certificate of registration back from the
> FAA before you can get signed off to fly? I was told that I have to
> get a bill-of-sale from Van's to accompany my registration. From my
> research, no bill of sale is required if I built more than 50% of the
> plane myself, which I did. Yes, it very highly resembles a plane that
> over 400 other people are working on, but I built it and I can call it
> an RV-10 or a JS-1 if I want, right? I am the builder so I don't need
> a bill-of-sale? Some places it seems to say that I need a copy of my
> builder's log and pictures or drawings of the 3 different views of the
> plane. Other places it just says, "fill out the affidavit to be named
> as the builder, fill out a certificate of registration, attach a
> letter to request a special N-number, wait 3-6 weeks for a
> certificate."
>
>
>
> Can anybody help me understand the steps and what all has to be sent
> in? Can I not operate with the pink (or yellow, or whatever copy I
> keep) copy of the certificate of registration for my sign-off?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
Message 46
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John,
I initially put electric rudder trim in my -6 and found that the only
time I used it was to trim for full cruise speed, then never needed it.
So I removed it and use the tab as an 'adjustable fixed' tab.
Attached is a picture of it, if you feel compelled to do one.
I installed it in the rudder stab spar in a manner similar to the old
electric aileron trim that Van's used to sell.
The tray slides in thru a gusseted slot in the rudder stab and screws in
place. There is a 1/4 scale model aircraft pushrod that fits from the
end of the 'bellcrank' to the actual tab at the trailing edge of the
rudder.
It looked really cool and worked great, but was useless and extra weight
in my -6 since I seldom travel xcountry nor do extended climbs.
I haven't missed it since it's removal.
Another, possibly better solution, would be an adjustable trim spring
attached to the rudder pedals, to pre-load the right rudder needed in
climb. This could be done similar to the Van's manual aileron trim
spring, very inexpensively.
Dw
N790DW 858hrs
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Trim
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
You need some rudder in climb out but on Monday I did a climb to 9500
ft. and leveled off. I was still climbing at 1000 ft a min. at 9500 ft.
I have myself and an additional 175 lbs of shot bags, 25 lbs of
paperwork and laptop, and full fuel. That was cool seeing that climb
rate that high. I think that the climb outs will be so short and the
amount of rudder pressure is so light that it won't be worth the
addition. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Kirkland
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trim
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Kirkland"
--> <jskirkland@webpipe.net>
Hope Randy sees this now that there's a flying airplane in the group. I
was wondering if anyone that has flown one of the RV-10's has thought
that it needed a means of rudder trim? After flying 4.2 hrs XC yesterday
it occurred to me that stepping on the ball during climbout gets old
after a while, and I like the Cessna 182 rudder rim wheel so you can
center the ball once climb is established and you're not so busy. Not
sure if anyone would notice this in a quick demo flight, but by now I'm
sure Randy would know!
John Kirkland
#40333
Message 47
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| Subject: | Rear Headset Jacks |
Right on top of the rear panels Bob. Same place that I put them. They
are out of the way and won't get kicked. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: RV10-List: Rear Headset Jacks
Here's a question for those that are almost finished - where are you
locating the rear seat headset jacks? Has anybody noticed where Van's
has them in the factory planes?
Bob #40105
Message 48
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| Subject: | Misc Fuel system parts |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wondering....
I see the ES Airflow Fuel Pump is not included in the kit,
and either is the Flo-Scan fuel flow transducer (IF Flo-Scan Mount Kit)
or the ES Airflow Filter.
Are these items I should just get from Van's, or are they normally
bought with something else? I'll have to verify that the Flo-Scan
is what I'd need with the GRT EIS that ties in to the Chelton too...
anyone know the answer?
In addition, I'm going to attempt an uninterrupted string of
productivity for a while, and would like a heads-up on anything
else that's optional or might hold me up during the sections of
* Fuel System
* Brake Pedals and system
* Rudder controls
* Control system
....anything that I would probably want at that point that just
might not be with the kit.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Message 49
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| Subject: | Misc Fuel system parts |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Fuel pump is from Van's. You can't get it cheaper. The transducer is
from your engine monitor company. I also bought about 2 ft of 1 1/2 scat
tube and reduced the tube going to the rear heater. It is impossible to
squeeze down the 2" stuff to fit on top of the fuel selector and I could
squeeze the 1 1/2" stuff. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Misc Fuel system parts
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wondering....
I see the ES Airflow Fuel Pump is not included in the kit, and either is
the Flo-Scan fuel flow transducer (IF Flo-Scan Mount Kit) or the ES
Airflow Filter.
Are these items I should just get from Van's, or are they normally
bought with something else? I'll have to verify that the Flo-Scan
is what I'd need with the GRT EIS that ties in to the Chelton too...
anyone know the answer?
In addition, I'm going to attempt an uninterrupted string of
productivity for a while, and would like a heads-up on anything else
that's optional or might hold me up during the sections of
* Fuel System
* Brake Pedals and system
* Rudder controls
* Control system
....anything that I would probably want at that point that just might
not be with the kit.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Misc Fuel system parts |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Great tip, Randy. I'll order the SCAT and have it ready in case I
can't get the 2" to fit either. Also, glad to hear you're up to
18 successful hours! Can't wait to hear it's flown off. Is your
wife going to be your first passenger?
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Randy DeBauw wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> Fuel pump is from Van's. You can't get it cheaper. The transducer is
> from your engine monitor company. I also bought about 2 ft of 1 1/2 scat
> tube and reduced the tube going to the rear heater. It is impossible to
> squeeze down the 2" stuff to fit on top of the fuel selector and I could
> squeeze the 1 1/2" stuff. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 5:51 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Misc Fuel system parts
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Wondering....
> I see the ES Airflow Fuel Pump is not included in the kit, and either is
> the Flo-Scan fuel flow transducer (IF Flo-Scan Mount Kit) or the ES
> Airflow Filter.
>
> Are these items I should just get from Van's, or are they normally
> bought with something else? I'll have to verify that the Flo-Scan
> is what I'd need with the GRT EIS that ties in to the Chelton too...
> anyone know the answer?
>
> In addition, I'm going to attempt an uninterrupted string of
> productivity for a while, and would like a heads-up on anything else
> that's optional or might hold me up during the sections of
> * Fuel System
> * Brake Pedals and system
> * Rudder controls
> * Control system
> ....anything that I would probably want at that point that just might
> not be with the kit.
>
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | QB Fuse - Hinges |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
My recommendation would be to buy about 10 each of every an3 bolt, an4
bolt, nuts, washers, etc. It will only cost about $30 and you will use
them. I'd also order some extra hinge, .063 extruded angle, and .032
bent angle and a couple feet extra of various aluminum sheet stock.
That is a little more expensive, but by the time you are done you will
want to fab a door or extra pocket or something and really need this
stuff. It'll also save you a lot of time searching for basic stock
parts.
Just my $0.02 worth.....
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 Flying
RV-10 Finishing Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: QB Fuse - Hinges
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
This missing parts thing really irritates me...
In my QB Fuse I have one length of AN257-P3 that is 3' long.
I also have 9' of 1/8 Piano Hinge.
The QB fuse came with the bottom half of the rear seat hinges
temporarily riveted in place. There were no top halves of the hinge.
The 3' piece supplied is about the perfect length if I cut it in half,
and throw away half of the hinge.
But, now I have my baggage door. It specifies the AN257-P3 hinge. It
doesn't require all 3' of it. Makes me suspicious because Van's usually
doesn't give you much excess, and 3' would be excess.
I then look ahead regarding the piano hinge at 9', for the cowl stuff.
There is only enough for the cowl job there. Besides that, it says in
Van's guide to hinges here:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Hinge_id.pdf
that on all 1/8" piano hinge, the pin is to be removed and discarded,
and they supply a different pin. I don't have any different pin.
What the heck is going on with all that? From the looks of it, I was
shorted my rear seat hinge halves. But, they supplied enough with that
3' hinge to do it. In that case, I was shorted my baggage
door hinge. As far as the 9' hinge pin, I do see that my
finishing kit includes:
AN257-P3 6'
Hinge Piano 063x3' Leg fairing hinge
Hinge Piano 063x6' 063 piano hinge
SSP-090x6' Stainless Steel Pin
SSP-120x6' Stainless Steel Pin
I don't see that I have 9' of hinge pin in the Finishing Kit.
What am I missing here? It really bugs me that I have to waste
an hour of time flipping back and forth in the plans, skimming through
the inventory, and measuring everything....only to have it turn out that
it sure looks like I was shorted a baggage door hinge, or my rear seat
hinge halves. I just GOT a care package with some bolts I needed that I
was shorted.
Anyone with a QB fuse who's further than me, I'd love your help in
figuring out what's going on. It WAS going to be a productive day
today...hope it still will be.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Headset Jacks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu" <wvu@mail.ameritel.net>
Van's has them there too. I took some video at SNF and just saw that Van's
also has something else mounted on the vertical that Tim mentioned which I
don't know what it is. It looks like one of those window carbon security
"stick".
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Headset Jacks
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm thinking probably on that armrest just below the air vents
> and up close to that vertical support.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
> > Heres a question for those that are almost finished where are you
> > locating the rear seat headset jacks? Has anybody noticed where Vans
> > has them in the factory planes?
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob #40105
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 53
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|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=iBT7SWxrCx7TyWsFBwobop8hDKutoMeucuhcuGw8s8gR37S3duMVTpiKZJcU6jGgriZQ1VyifZ1mYE28NDsyrDJKvP/kk76JnPsidwEKThSsAYUVeZV3ZbKQnX60KhuOBRJn8weF1PCrWyYWKKb/TWRNfpz0LdtLFqNPdYfsIoE=
;
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge |
For all those who used the proseal method for the trailing edge, what do you do
if you start to develop a slight bow? I started developing a bow in the bottom
12 inches of the rudder, but I think the repeated warnings in the plans has
me spooked a little so I don't think it is all that bad. Before I go on setting
the rest of the rivets (I only have about half of them half way set) I would
like to know what to do to correct it. Thanks for your thoughts.
--Shawn
40366
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I didn't have a bowing problem myself...used proseal, and the long piece
of angle iron to cleco it to method. But, if you were bowing, I'd
think that a possible solution is to put every other rivet in from the
opposite side. That would even out the forces I'd think. No guarantee,
but that's what I did on my rudder.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Shawn Moon wrote:
> For all those who used the proseal method for the trailing edge, what do
> you do if you start to develop a slight bow? I started developing a bow
> in the bottom 12 inches of the rudder, but I think the repeated warnings
> in the plans has me spooked a little so I don't think it is all that
> bad. Before I go on setting the rest of the rivets (I only have about
> half of them half way set) I would like to know what to do to correct
> it. Thanks for your thoughts.
>
>
> --Shawn
> 40366
>
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
> <http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html>
Message 55
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spamd4.ruraltel.net
* -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_5 Message came from 204.96.144-152.x network
* 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay
* lines
While riveting the HS nose ribs in tonight we had an accident with the bucking
bar and accidentally put a dent in the leading edge of the HS skin. I'll try
to post a picture. If that doesn't happen contact me if you can offer any ideas
and I'll e-mail you the picture. Meanwhile, any thoughts or suggestions or
do I just let the paint shop work this one out???
TIA
Bill Britton
Riveting HS
Message 56
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
Hi Bill,
Welcome to the club ;-)
This happened to me on about the sixth rivet I set on the VS. I have a few
more birthmarks on various skins (mostly due to trying to buck/shoot solo,
and a really crap extended back rivet set that should be outlawed . . . ).
If the ding does not include the rib behind the skin, you can fashion a
dolly from hardwood, place it on the inside of the skin and use a plastic
faced mallet to tap the dent back in. I have not had much success reducing
these if the ding presses the rib into the skin. I am just not game enough
to whack the skin as hard as it appears necessary to push both skin and rib
back into shape.
I too would be very interested in any tricks that other listers may have for
these 'birthmarks'.
cheers,
Ron
#187 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill and Tami
Britton
Subject: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin
While riveting the HS nose ribs in tonight we had an accident with the
bucking bar and accidentally put a dent in the leading edge of the HS skin.
I'll try to post a picture. If that doesn't happen contact me if you can
offer any ideas and I'll e-mail you the picture. Meanwhile, any thoughts or
suggestions or do I just let the paint shop work this one out???
TIA
Bill Britton
Riveting HS
Message 57
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| Subject: | The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost |
This is off topic - but I am impressed with the quality of the pictures
given their small size except, for no 2 which apparently suffered a minor
mishap. What camera did you use or better still - did you process the photos
in any way to get them so small yet so crisp and clear? I use the 1.8 mega
pixel photo capability on my camcorder - pictures weigh 500+ kb and do not
exhibit the crispness of yours.
Thanks,
Michle
RV8 - Fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:30 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> Tim, you and I seem to be at the same sport. I ended up doing
> the same thing for the nutplates on the baggage door jam. I drilled the
> rivet hole to come out the back and then enlarged this hole to 1/4" and
> back riveted it using a hammer and punch on a backing plate.
> As for the most forward rivet on the rear side seat pans, I also
> left this rivet out. I called Van's about it and explain to Bruce there
> is no way to get this rivet because you can't get to either side of the
> rivet with the gun. He went on to say you can use a pop rivet at a 15
> degree angle, but I said it would be more like a 70 degree angle and it
> wouldn't work. If you look at the drawing that show the rear floor pan,
> you will notice they don't even show this hole exists, so I wonder if
> this was added later not thinking about how it would be set.
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250 Floor Pans all rivet on.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:16 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: The impossible rivets - 1 won, 1 lost
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I found 2 "impossible" rivets, and the solution to one of them. QB
> fuse, by the way.
>
> #1 is on the baggage door latch bracket that goes on the fuselage.
> There are 2 nutplates to attach. 2 of those 4 rivets are not
> accessible by squeezer or bucking bar. I did, however,
> find that I have a very small flat squeezer set and I could drill
> a hole and enlarge with a unibit in the flange underneath the
> rivet, and get the squeezer through. I just don't know how else
> you'd do it. Here's a couple of photos.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260017.html
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505260016.html
>
>
> The other impossible rivets are on the very forward hole of the
> rear seat panels, on the sidewalls. There are holes that are completely
> inaccessible by rivet gun, or pop rivet tool. This photo shows the
> location, a couple inches NorthEast of the rivet set.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050530/RV200505250013.html
> Short of drilling a hole through my seat bracket, which is NOT
> worth it, I can't find a way to fill that hole. The ones on the
> other side of the floor panel by the tunnel could be popped in
> from the tunnel side I suppose, but you'd have an ugle rivet
> sticking into the seating area. For now I'm just going to leave
> them empty. If I got desperate, I'd GLUE in a rivet for looks...
> then everyone would think I figured out the secret. :)
>
> Tim
>
> --
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>
>
>
> ====================================
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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