---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/02/05: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com) 2. 07:52 AM - Re: Dent in HS skin (Darton Steve) 3. 08:22 AM - Flap position. (Randy's Abros mail) 4. 08:29 AM - Re: Flap position. (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 5. 08:59 AM - Re: Flap position. (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com) 6. 09:10 AM - Re: Flap position. (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 7. 09:14 AM - Re: Flap position. (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 8. 09:15 AM - Re: Dent in HS skin (Dan Checkoway) 9. 09:20 AM - Re: Performance Comparison (Scott Schmidt) 10. 09:21 AM - Re: Flap position. (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com) 11. 09:26 AM - Re: Performance Comparison (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com) 12. 09:29 AM - Re: Flap position. (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 13. 09:30 AM - Re: Dent in HS skin (Ross S) 14. 09:47 AM - Re: Flap position. (Scott Schmidt) 15. 09:55 AM - Re: Dent in HS skin (Scott Schmidt) 16. 10:15 AM - Re: Dent in HS skin (Dan Checkoway) 17. 10:26 AM - Re: Flap position. (Randy DeBauw) 18. 10:27 AM - Re: Flap position. (Larry) 19. 10:35 AM - Rivet Question (Kent Forsythe) 20. 11:01 AM - New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet (Tim Olson) 21. 11:21 AM - Re: Rivet Question (Dan Checkoway) 22. 12:28 PM - Re: Performance Comparison (Tim Olson) 23. 12:48 PM - Re: Rivet Question (Kent Forsythe) 24. 12:54 PM - Re: Dent in HS skin (Scott Schmidt) 25. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Rivet Question (Dan Checkoway) 26. 03:04 PM - Re: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet (John R. Lewis) 27. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: Rivet Question (Wayne Edgerton) 28. 03:24 PM - Re: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet (Tim Olson) 29. 03:38 PM - Re: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet (Dj Merrill) 30. 05:55 PM - Flap Positioning System Documentation (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 31. 06:46 PM - Re: Dent in HS skin (Bill and Tami Britton) 32. 09:19 PM - Re: Narrow Deck Engine (James Laura Riley) 33. 09:33 PM - Re: Flap Positioning System Documentation (Tim Olson) 34. 09:34 PM - Re: Performance Comparison (Rob Campbell) 35. 09:34 PM - Re: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet (Larry) 36. 10:25 PM - Re: Performance Comparison (son hoang) 37. 11:53 PM - Re: Flap Positioning System Documentation (Werner Schneider) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:50 AM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com Dear Lister, Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV10-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV10-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:31 AM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=XNvhwi0XQrSOFJY2qY3taiPedpzwvuhxLy4UmhzrfLmhwkY8HAdC4is9BsudqViebWr55XKSJqg4N+ah+HCTH8tT8myPbHDDXgfwIsBOGmX0JmKm0UIRPPNgmpnDkxNPBJi4M/V4alNM862UiDdjGdFIMvHHFYyxezV23lMmo78= ; From: Darton Steve Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve I would hesitate to drill out any more than just a couple of rivets, especially a continuous row. You just can't drill them out without enlarging/elongating the holes. Also be careful using a rivet gun and a bucking bar or backing block. This can thin the skin in that area and cause a "blister" like deformation. I would leave in the rivets and carefully tap the dent inward with an auto body hammer. You will then have to do some cosmetic filling after. Steve #40212 wings --- Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > While riveting the HS nose ribs in tonight we had an > accident with the bucking bar and accidentally put a > dent in the leading edge of the HS skin. I'll try > to post a picture. If that doesn't happen contact > me if you can offer any ideas and I'll e-mail you > the picture. Meanwhile, any thoughts or suggestions > or do I just let the paint shop work this one out??? > > TIA > Bill Britton > Riveting HS > __________________________________ Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:34 AM PST US From: "Randy's Abros mail" Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:57 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Are you talking about the Van's Flap Control System when you mention the "flap position sensor"? I presume any of us without said system will have to eyeball those positions . . . TDT ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Randy's Abros mail Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. Yes you would have eyeball the position. The flap take 14 seconds from start to finish in full travel. I am very glad that I went to the flap control system. Sorry about calling it the wrong name. It made it confusing. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. Are you talking about the Van's Flap Control System when you mention the "flap position sensor"? I presume any of us without said system will have to eyeball those positions . . . TDT ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Randy's Abros mail Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:55 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Randy or others: Is it possible to also wire in a switch on the stick grip to the Flap positioning system? i.e. so you can use either the switch on the panel or the switch on the stick? TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy's Abros mail Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Would anyone with the Flap Positioning System like to scan in any instructions or drawings that came with it as a PDF file for the rest of us to evaluate? Thanks, TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. Yes you would have eyeball the position. The flap take 14 seconds from start to finish in full travel. I am very glad that I went to the flap control system. Sorry about calling it the wrong name. It made it confusing. Randy _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. Are you talking about the Van's Flap Control System when you mention the "flap position sensor"? I presume any of us without said system will have to eyeball those positions . . . TDT _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Randy's Abros mail Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:45 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > I would hesitate to drill out any more than just a > couple of rivets, especially a continuous row. You > just can't drill them out without enlarging/elongating > the holes. I wouldn't discourage people from drilling out rivets if that's the best course of action. You absolutely CAN drill out rivets without affecting the holes. You just need to know what you're doing. If anybody needs assistance with the technique, holler. And by the way, I don't see the point in drilling out rivets to resolve a dent that has nothing to do with rivets... do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison From: "Scott Schmidt" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" I do know that Van's posts everything in MPH. I converted everything from knots to MPH. But I have reported the cruise speed on my comparison in knots. I will also convert these to knots when I plot them. I don't know why I used mph right now, I probably looked up the Van's numbers first and then just stayed consistent with their units. We need to encourage Van's to get with the aviation units of knots. So do you have any thoughts on fuel burn at cruise (around 10,000 ft.)? Do not archive Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Scott, Quick question...did you take into account that the RV's usually post their speeds in mph, while many others post in Kts? I'm just wondering if you truly know that the below numbers are MPH, or are the digits themselves the only part that you verified? Tim Scott Schmidt wrote: > Good idea. > > OK here is what I have for stall speed: > > RV-10 63 mph > > 182 56 mph > > SR-20 62 mph > > SR-22 62 mph > > > > What do you think for fuel burn for each? They don't list these numbers? > > Fuel Burn > > RV-10 > > 182 > > SR-20 > > SR-22 > > > > Scott Schmidt > > sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim > Dawson-Townsend > *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:53 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison > > > > Scott: > > > > How about adding fuel burn and stall speeds to your charts? > > > > TDT > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Scott > Schmidt > *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:59 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Performance Comparison > > Check out this performance comparison I did with the RV-10, SR-20, > SR-22, and 182. > http://www.freedomflyers.com/Performance%20Comparison.ppt > > The RV-10 is a great all-around plane. > > > > I have updated my website and been working on it for a little > while. The RV-10 has been so easy to build up to this point that I > don't think we have needed much help. The manuals have been great. > Anyway, now that I am getting to the finishing work I will start to > document the work in more detail. www.freedomflyers.com > > > > > Scott Schmidt (#40111, FWF and Finishing Kit) > > Salt Lake City, UT > > Cell: 801-319-3094 > > sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. You could I suppose but you thumb is very busy re trimming as the flap come in. If you had it on the stick as well you would be going back and forth between buttons. Not very efficient. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. Randy or others: Is it possible to also wire in a switch on the stick grip to the Flap positioning system? i.e. so you can use either the switch on the panel or the switch on the stick? TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy's Abros mail Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:24 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. =09 =09 I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:35 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" I will hope to give you an exact number after this weekend. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Subject: RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" --> I do know that Van's posts everything in MPH. I converted everything from knots to MPH. But I have reported the cruise speed on my comparison in knots. I will also convert these to knots when I plot them. I don't know why I used mph right now, I probably looked up the Van's numbers first and then just stayed consistent with their units. We need to encourage Van's to get with the aviation units of knots. So do you have any thoughts on fuel burn at cruise (around 10,000 ft.)? Do not archive Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Scott, Quick question...did you take into account that the RV's usually post their speeds in mph, while many others post in Kts? I'm just wondering if you truly know that the below numbers are MPH, or are the digits themselves the only part that you verified? Tim Scott Schmidt wrote: > Good idea. > > OK here is what I have for stall speed: > > RV-10 63 mph > > 182 56 mph > > SR-20 62 mph > > SR-22 62 mph > > > > What do you think for fuel burn for each? They don't list these numbers? > > Fuel Burn > > RV-10 > > 182 > > SR-20 > > SR-22 > > > > Scott Schmidt > > sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim > Dawson-Townsend > *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:53 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison > > > > Scott: > > > > How about adding fuel burn and stall speeds to your charts? > > > > TDT > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Scott > Schmidt > *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:59 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Performance Comparison > > Check out this performance comparison I did with the RV-10, SR-20, > SR-22, and 182. > http://www.freedomflyers.com/Performance%20Comparison.ppt > > The RV-10 is a great all-around plane. > > > > I have updated my website and been working on it for a little > while. The RV-10 has been so easy to build up to this point that I > don't think we have needed much help. The manuals have been great. > Anyway, now that I am getting to the finishing work I will start to > document the work in more detail. www.freedomflyers.com > > > > > Scott Schmidt (#40111, FWF and Finishing Kit) > > Salt Lake City, UT > > Cell: 801-319-3094 > > sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:12 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" I was wondering if I could have the stick switch wired into the Flap Positioning System, so I could use the "one-touch" feature of the Flap Positioning System from either the panel or the stick. i.e. hit the Flap switch once, then do your trim, etc. TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. You could I suppose but you thumb is very busy re trimming as the flap come in. If you had it on the stick as well you would be going back and forth between buttons. Not very efficient. Randy _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. Randy or others: Is it possible to also wire in a switch on the stick grip to the Flap positioning system? i.e. so you can use either the switch on the panel or the switch on the stick? TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy's Abros mail Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:08 AM PST US From: "Ross S" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin --> RV10-List message posted by: "Ross S" I've found that you can drill a strait hole that doesn't enlarge the hole, the problem however, is that most of the time you enlarge the hole when you squeeze the rivet initially. Therefore, the next rivet has big shoes to fill. Ross Schlotthauer www.experimentalair.com >From: "Dan Checkoway" >Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin >Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:15:29 -0700 > >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > I would hesitate to drill out any more than just a > > couple of rivets, especially a continuous row. You > > just can't drill them out without enlarging/elongating > > the holes. > >I wouldn't discourage people from drilling out rivets if that's the best >course of action. You absolutely CAN drill out rivets without affecting >the >holes. You just need to know what you're doing. > >If anybody needs assistance with the technique, holler. > >And by the way, I don't see the point in drilling out rivets to resolve a >dent that has nothing to do with rivets... > >do not archive >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. From: "Scott Schmidt" You absolutely should be able to. The difficulty comes when you try to have the panel, and both sticks wired. The Inifinity guys told me to put a switch on the panel to select either the co-pilot or pilot. But there must be an easier way to do this. I would really like to have options at all three places. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. I was wondering if I could have the stick switch wired into the Flap Positioning System, so I could use the "one-touch" feature of the Flap Positioning System from either the panel or the stick. i.e. hit the Flap switch once, then do your trim, etc. TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:21 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. You could I suppose but you thumb is very busy re trimming as the flap come in. If you had it on the stick as well you would be going back and forth between buttons. Not very efficient. Randy =09 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:11 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. Randy or others: Is it possible to also wire in a switch on the stick grip to the Flap positioning system? i.e. so you can use either the switch on the panel or the switch on the stick? TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy's Abros mail Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:24 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin From: "Scott Schmidt" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" You can drill out the rivets without enlarging the holes. I have drilled out literally hundreds of rivets on my RV-10 when they didn't come out perfect. The secret is not to touch the skin at all. You actually should be drilling out bad rivets as you go. The technique is this: Drill in the head of the rivet about 1/16" to 1/8" of an inch. That way if you are a little off center you still won't hit the skin. Then take the end of the bit you just drilled with or the proper sized punch and put it in the hole and break of the head of the rivet by pushing the bit over. Once the head of the rivet is broken off you can center punch the rest of the rivet out of the hold. This technique takes practice but you don't have to live with bad rivets on either side of the skin. This works even better on 470 rivets. Good luck. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ross S Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin --> RV10-List message posted by: "Ross S" I've found that you can drill a strait hole that doesn't enlarge the hole, the problem however, is that most of the time you enlarge the hole when you squeeze the rivet initially. Therefore, the next rivet has big shoes to fill. Ross Schlotthauer www.experimentalair.com >From: "Dan Checkoway" >Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin >Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:15:29 -0700 > >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > I would hesitate to drill out any more than just a > > couple of rivets, especially a continuous row. You > > just can't drill them out without enlarging/elongating > > the holes. > >I wouldn't discourage people from drilling out rivets if that's the best >course of action. You absolutely CAN drill out rivets without affecting >the >holes. You just need to know what you're doing. > >If anybody needs assistance with the technique, holler. > >And by the way, I don't see the point in drilling out rivets to resolve a >dent that has nothing to do with rivets... > >do not archive >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:31 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > over. Once the head of the rivet is broken off you can center punch the > rest of the rivet out of the hold. This technique takes practice but you Punching the rivet through once the head is drilled off is often not the best solution. If the flange (i.e. rib, bulkhead, etc.) on the other side is "flimsy" at all, it will bow out away from the skin...which is something you can't really solve easily. If, after breaking the head off, you give it a light tap with the punch and it doesn't come out, it's probably best to use the drill. You can use a 3/32" or 1/8" bit. Just drill it straight and you won't have any problems. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. From: "Randy DeBauw" Yea that should work. ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. I was wondering if I could have the stick switch wired into the Flap Positioning System, so I could use the "one-touch" feature of the Flap Positioning System from either the panel or the stick. i.e. hit the Flap switch once, then do your trim, etc. TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:21 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. =09 =09 You could I suppose but you thumb is very busy re trimming as the flap come in. If you had it on the stick as well you would be going back and forth between buttons. Not very efficient. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:11 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position. =09 =09 Randy or others: Is it possible to also wire in a switch on the stick grip to the Flap positioning system? i.e. so you can use either the switch on the panel or the switch on the stick? TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy's Abros mail Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:24 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Flap position. =09 =09 I have received an off list response from Scott (one of the shop guys that worked on the 10 development) with a much better explanation of the flap workings than I had previously. Here is the skinny. If you have the flap position sensor that Van's sells it has 4 positions. The first position is full up and is the REFLEX POSITION. I think is -3 deg. but I am not sure. This is a position to reduce some drag as it was explained to me. When you hit the flap switch the flap drop to the first position which is 0 flaps. You are suppose to use this position during take-off and climb out lifting them back to reflex as you level off and transition to cruise. The other 2 positions are 15 deg. flaps and 30 deg flaps. This makes a lot of since when you see how little the flaps move when you hit the switch for the first notch. We are all on this learning path at the same time. Randy ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:03 AM PST US From: Larry Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap position. --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Anyone considering using the flap positioning system from Aircraft Extras here: ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:27 AM PST US From: Kent Forsythe Subject: RV10-List: Rivet Question --> RV10-List message posted by: Kent Forsythe The recent posts regarding drilling out rivets has me wondering of the effects when a hole gets enlarged. If this happens, won't the new rivet expand out further to fill the hole and result in the equivalent of a larger diameter rivet. You would lose some length in the process and would probably need to move up to the next longer size rivet but the end result would be a rivet with a little larger diameter which should have equal shear strength (or greater) than the original. I guess you argue that the amount of rivet shop head extending out from the hole would be less but isn't shear strength what is really holding the plane together? I'm fairly new to this so be kind on your responses :-) Just trying to learn. Kent Forsythe 40338 Closing Elevator(s) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:40 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Ok, you're all in for a treat now. Bruce Breckenridge went all out and worked up a fantastic video/audio tribute to Randy's project and sent it to me. It's in VCD format, and I reworked it into a smaller .wmv again as well. I really suggest you download the VCD though if you have the ambition, and burn it to CD to play in your DVD player. For those not familiar with Video CD's, many (not all) DVD players can play videos compressed in slightly lower quality but writted to writeable CD's. Most good CD burning software has the capability to make a VCD. Once burned you can then watch it on TV, instead of a tiny box on your PC. Those small boxes on a PC screen actually turn into great TV pictures. Here's a direct link to the VCD: http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/videos/DeBauwMVCD.mpg If you're going to watch it on a PC though, just go here and get the .wmv. http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/index.html Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:18 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rivet Question --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" From http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/parts.txt ... NAS1097AD3-3 RIVETS (LB) $27.31 NAS1097AD3-3.5 RIVETS (LB) $29.45 NAS1097AD3-4 RIVETS (LB) $23.25 NAS1097AD3-6 RIVETS (LB) $26.95 NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $22.71 NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00 NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00 NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $18.62 The NAS1097 rivet has a smaller manufactured head than AN426 rivets. There are at least two common purposes... 1. If you enlarge a 3/32" hole, i.e. when you drill out a rivet or something, just drill it out to #30. Then you can use an NAS1097AD4-x rivet. That rivet has the same size head as an AN426AD3-x rivet, but the shank is 1/8". You'll never know it's there from the outside...they don't call 'em "OOPS RIVETS" for nothing. 2. When installing nutplates on thin (i.e. .032" or thinner) material, use the NAS1097AD3-x rivets. Since they have a smaller head, you don't need to countersink as deeply. If you were to use an AN426 rivet, you'd probably have to c-sink right through the thin flange...that sucks. When you use an NAS1097 rivet, you can literally just give the hole a few turns with your deburring tool, and that will be "deep enough" for the rivet to sit flush. This kicks butt for nutplates. Faster, easier, less material removed. Keep in mind that nutplates rivets are NON-structural. They only serve to keep the nutplate from rotating while you're turning the fastener. Anyway, do yourself a favor and buy an 1/8 pound each of NAS1097AD3-3.5 rivets for nutplates, and NAS1097AD4-4 rivets for those "oops" situations. You'll thank me later... ;-) But in the meantime, practice drilling out those rivets and you'll never need an oops rivet. I have TWO oops rivets on my RV-7, and the rest are standard! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Forsythe" Subject: RV10-List: Rivet Question > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kent Forsythe > > The recent posts regarding drilling out rivets has me wondering of the effects when a hole gets enlarged. If this happens, won't the new rivet expand out further to fill the hole and result in the equivalent of a larger diameter rivet. You would lose some length in the process and would probably need to move up to the next longer size rivet but the end result would be a rivet with a little larger diameter which should have equal shear strength (or greater) than the original. I guess you argue that the amount of rivet shop head extending out from the hole would be less but isn't shear strength what is really holding the plane together? > > I'm fairly new to this so be kind on your responses :-) > > Just trying to learn. > > Kent Forsythe > 40338 > Closing Elevator(s) > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:05 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Randy sent me this power chart....didn't get it posted until now. See if this helps. http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/power_chart.jpg Tim Scott Schmidt wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" > > I do know that Van's posts everything in MPH. I converted everything > from knots to MPH. But I have reported the cruise speed on my > comparison in knots. I will also convert these to knots when I plot > them. I don't know why I used mph right now, I probably looked up the > Van's numbers first and then just stayed consistent with their units. > We need to encourage Van's to get with the aviation units of knots. > > So do you have any thoughts on fuel burn at cruise (around 10,000 ft.)? > > > Do not archive > > Scott Schmidt > Cell: 801-319-3094 > sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:06 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Scott, > > Quick question...did you take into account that the RV's usually post > their speeds in mph, while many others post in Kts? I'm just wondering > if you truly know that the below numbers are MPH, or are the digits > themselves the only part that you verified? > > Tim > > Scott Schmidt wrote: > >>Good idea. >> >>OK here is what I have for stall speed: >> >>RV-10 63 mph >> >>182 56 mph >> >>SR-20 62 mph >> >>SR-22 62 mph >> >> >> >>What do you think for fuel burn for each? They don't list these > > numbers? > >>Fuel Burn >> >>RV-10 >> >>182 >> >>SR-20 >> >>SR-22 >> >> >> >>Scott Schmidt >> >>sschmidt@ussynthetic.com >> >> > > >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim >>Dawson-Townsend >>*Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:53 PM >>*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison >> >> >> >>Scott: >> >> >> >>How about adding fuel burn and stall speeds to your charts? >> >> >> >>TDT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Scott >> Schmidt >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:59 PM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: Performance Comparison >> >> Check out this performance comparison I did with the RV-10, SR-20, >> SR-22, and 182. >> http://www.freedomflyers.com/Performance%20Comparison.ppt >> >> The RV-10 is a great all-around plane. >> >> >> >> I have updated my website and been working on it for a little >> while. The RV-10 has been so easy to build up to this point that > > I > >> don't think we have needed much help. The manuals have been great. > > >> Anyway, now that I am getting to the finishing work I will start > > to > >> document the work in more detail. www.freedomflyers.com >> >> >> >> >> Scott Schmidt (#40111, FWF and Finishing Kit) >> >> Salt Lake City, UT >> >> Cell: 801-319-3094 >> >> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:18 PM PST US From: Kent Forsythe Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rivet Question --> RV10-List message posted by: Kent Forsythe Dan, That's some great information. I've heard of the Oops rivets but didn't know the specifics on them. Is there any structural difference though between a rivet that is larger diameter from the start, and one that is squeezed to a larger diameter assuming you can squeeze it straight so that the head is centered? Just curious... Kent --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" From http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/parts.txt ... NAS1097AD3-3 RIVETS (LB) $27.31 NAS1097AD3-3.5 RIVETS (LB) $29.45 NAS1097AD3-4 RIVETS (LB) $23.25 NAS1097AD3-6 RIVETS (LB) $26.95 NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $22.71 NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00 NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00 NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $18.62 The NAS1097 rivet has a smaller manufactured head than AN426 rivets. There are at least two common purposes... 1. If you enlarge a 3/32" hole, i.e. when you drill out a rivet or something, just drill it out to #30. Then you can use an NAS1097AD4-x rivet. That rivet has the same size head as an AN426AD3-x rivet, but the shank is 1/8". You'll never know it's there from the outside...they don't call 'em "OOPS RIVETS" for nothing. 2. When installing nutplates on thin (i.e. .032" or thinner) material, use the NAS1097AD3-x rivets. Since they have a smaller head, you don't need to countersink as deeply. If you were to use an AN426 rivet, you'd probably have to c-sink right through the thin flange...that sucks. When you use an NAS1097 rivet, you can literally just give the hole a few turns with your deburring tool, and that will be "deep enough" for the rivet to sit flush. This kicks butt for nutplates. Faster, easier, less material removed. Keep in mind that nutplates rivets are NON-structural. They only serve to keep the nutplate from rotating while you're turning the fastener. Anyway, do yourself a favor and buy an 1/8 pound each of NAS1097AD3-3.5 rivets for nutplates, and NAS1097AD4-4 rivets for those "oops" situations. You'll thank me later... ;-) But in the meantime, practice drilling out those rivets and you'll never need an oops rivet. I have TWO oops rivets on my RV-7, and the rest are standard! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin From: "Scott Schmidt" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" Dan, I agree. But once that head is broken off is much easier to drill a hole straight through the rivet. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > over. Once the head of the rivet is broken off you can center punch the > rest of the rivet out of the hold. This technique takes practice but you Punching the rivet through once the head is drilled off is often not the best solution. If the flange (i.e. rib, bulkhead, etc.) on the other side is "flimsy" at all, it will bow out away from the skin...which is something you can't really solve easily. If, after breaking the head off, you give it a light tap with the punch and it doesn't come out, it's probably best to use the drill. You can use a 3/32" or 1/8" bit. Just drill it straight and you won't have any problems. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:11 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Rivet Question --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" I'm no engineer, but here's my answer... "Fill the hole with some sort of rivet and move on." Don't over-think it. Thankfully Van's over-engineered the structure for us. 99% of the time, one rivet isn't gonna make enough of a difference to worry about it. If in doubt, call Van's. do not archive )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Forsythe" Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rivet Question > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kent Forsythe > > Dan, > > That's some great information. I've heard of the Oops rivets but didn't know the specifics on them. Is there any structural difference though between a rivet that is larger diameter from the start, and one that is squeezed to a larger diameter assuming you can squeeze it straight so that the head is centered? > > Just curious... > > Kent > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > >From http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/parts.txt ... > > NAS1097AD3-3 RIVETS (LB) $27.31 > NAS1097AD3-3.5 RIVETS (LB) $29.45 > NAS1097AD3-4 RIVETS (LB) $23.25 > NAS1097AD3-6 RIVETS (LB) $26.95 > NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $22.71 > NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00 > NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00 > NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $18.62 > > The NAS1097 rivet has a smaller manufactured head than AN426 rivets. There are at least two common purposes... > > 1. If you enlarge a 3/32" hole, i.e. when you drill out a rivet or something, just drill it out to #30. Then you can use an NAS1097AD4-x rivet. That rivet has the same size head as an AN426AD3-x rivet, but the shank is 1/8". You'll never know it's there from the outside...they don't call 'em "OOPS RIVETS" for nothing. > > 2. When installing nutplates on thin (i.e. .032" or thinner) material, use the NAS1097AD3-x rivets. Since they have a smaller head, you don't need to countersink as deeply. If you were to use an AN426 rivet, you'd probably have to c-sink right through the thin flange...that sucks. When you use an > NAS1097 rivet, you can literally just give the hole a few turns with your deburring tool, and that will be "deep enough" for the rivet to sit flush. > This kicks butt for nutplates. Faster, easier, less material removed. Keep in mind that nutplates rivets are NON-structural. They only serve to keep the nutplate from rotating while you're turning the fastener. > > Anyway, do yourself a favor and buy an 1/8 pound each of NAS1097AD3-3.5 rivets for nutplates, and NAS1097AD4-4 rivets for those "oops" situations. > You'll thank me later... ;-) > > But in the meantime, practice drilling out those rivets and you'll never need an oops rivet. I have TWO oops rivets on my RV-7, and the rest are standard! > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:43 PM PST US From: "John R. Lewis" Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet --> RV10-List message posted by: "John R. Lewis" That brought tears to my eyes. Wow. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Ok, you're all in for a treat now. Bruce Breckenridge went all out and worked up a fantastic video/audio tribute to Randy's project and sent it to me. It's in VCD format, and I reworked it into a smaller .wmv again as well. I really suggest you download the VCD though if you have the ambition, and burn it to CD to play in your DVD player. For those not familiar with Video CD's, many (not all) DVD players can play videos compressed in slightly lower quality but writted to writeable CD's. Most good CD burning software has the capability to make a VCD. Once burned you can then watch it on TV, instead of a tiny box on your PC. Those small boxes on a PC screen actually turn into great TV pictures. Here's a direct link to the VCD: http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/videos/DeBauwMVCD.mpg If you're going to watch it on a PC though, just go here and get the .wmv. http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/index.html Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:44 PM PST US From: "Wayne Edgerton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Rivet Question --> RV10-List message posted by: "Wayne Edgerton" I've been told by George Orndorff, GeoBeck, that I could probably screw up 30% of the rivets and the plane would still be stronger than a similar production plane. Like Dan, I figure a couple wouldn't hurt you. Wayne E #40366 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Rivet Question > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > I'm no engineer, but here's my answer... > > "Fill the hole with some sort of rivet and move on." > > Don't over-think it. Thankfully Van's over-engineered the structure for > us. > 99% of the time, one rivet isn't gonna make enough of a difference to > worry > about it. If in doubt, call Van's. > > do not archive > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kent Forsythe" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:47 PM > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rivet Question > > >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kent Forsythe >> >> Dan, >> >> That's some great information. I've heard of the Oops rivets but didn't > know the specifics on them. Is there any structural difference though > between a rivet that is larger diameter from the start, and one that is > squeezed to a larger diameter assuming you can squeeze it straight so that > the head is centered? >> >> Just curious... >> >> Kent >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" >> >> >From http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/parts.txt ... >> >> NAS1097AD3-3 RIVETS (LB) $27.31 >> NAS1097AD3-3.5 RIVETS (LB) $29.45 >> NAS1097AD3-4 RIVETS (LB) $23.25 >> NAS1097AD3-6 RIVETS (LB) $26.95 >> NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $22.71 >> NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00 >> NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00 >> NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $18.62 >> >> The NAS1097 rivet has a smaller manufactured head than AN426 rivets. > There are at least two common purposes... >> >> 1. If you enlarge a 3/32" hole, i.e. when you drill out a rivet or > something, just drill it out to #30. Then you can use an NAS1097AD4-x > rivet. That rivet has the same size head as an AN426AD3-x rivet, but the > shank is 1/8". You'll never know it's there from the outside...they don't > call 'em "OOPS RIVETS" for nothing. >> >> 2. When installing nutplates on thin (i.e. .032" or thinner) material, > use the NAS1097AD3-x rivets. Since they have a smaller head, you don't > need > to countersink as deeply. If you were to use an AN426 rivet, you'd > probably > have to c-sink right through the thin flange...that sucks. When you use > an >> NAS1097 rivet, you can literally just give the hole a few turns with your > deburring tool, and that will be "deep enough" for the rivet to sit flush. >> This kicks butt for nutplates. Faster, easier, less material removed. > Keep in mind that nutplates rivets are NON-structural. They only serve to > keep the nutplate from rotating while you're turning the fastener. >> >> Anyway, do yourself a favor and buy an 1/8 pound each of NAS1097AD3-3.5 > rivets for nutplates, and NAS1097AD4-4 rivets for those "oops" situations. >> You'll thank me later... ;-) >> >> But in the meantime, practice drilling out those rivets and you'll never > need an oops rivet. I have TWO oops rivets on my RV-7, and the rest are > standard! >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:43 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Same here.....almost like it watching a little boy get his FAVORITE toy for Christmas. Wait....that IS what happend. ;) Tim John R. Lewis wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "John R. Lewis" > > That brought tears to my eyes. Wow. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:01 AM > To: RV10 > Subject: RV10-List: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Ok, you're all in for a treat now. Bruce Breckenridge went > all out and worked up a fantastic video/audio tribute to > Randy's project and sent it to me. It's in VCD format, > and I reworked it into a smaller .wmv again as well. > I really suggest you download the VCD though if you have > the ambition, and burn it to CD to play in your DVD player. > For those not familiar with Video CD's, many (not all) DVD > players can play videos compressed in slightly lower quality > but writted to writeable CD's. Most good CD burning software > has the capability to make a VCD. Once burned you can > then watch it on TV, instead of a tiny box on your PC. > Those small boxes on a PC screen actually turn into great > TV pictures. > > Here's a direct link to the VCD: > http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/videos/DeBauwMVCD.mpg > > If you're going to watch it on a PC though, just go here > and get the .wmv. > http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/index.html > > Tim > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:38 PM PST US From: Dj Merrill Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill Tim Olson wrote: > If you're going to watch it on a PC though, just go here > and get the .wmv. > http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/index.html That is just... awesome! -Dj do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:55 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Flap Positioning System Documentation From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" U29tZWJvZHkgcmVxdWVzdGVkIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudGF0aW9uIGZvciB0aGUgVmFuJ3MgZmxhcCBw b3NpdGlvbmluZyBzeXN0ZW0gaW4gLnBkZi4gIFVuZm9ydHVuYXRlbHkgSSBoYXZlIGEgZmV3IGRv bWVzdGljIElUIGlzc3VlcyB0aGF0IHByZXZlbnQgbWUgZnJvbSBkb2luZyB0aGUgY29udmVyc2lv biBidXQgSSd2ZSBhdHRhY2hlZCAuanBnIGZpbGVzIG9mIHRoZSB0d28gcGFnZXMuICBKdXN0IGlu IGNhc2UgdGhlIGxpc3Qgc3RyaXBzIHRoZSBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBJJ3ZlIGNjJ2QgVGltIGFuZCBt YXliZSBoZSBjYW4gcG9zdCB0aGVtLg0KIA0KU29ycnkgYWJvdXQgdGhlIGZpbGUgc2l6ZXMgLSBJ IHdhcyBjb25jZXJuZWQgdGhhdCBpZiBJIGNvbXByZXNzZWQgdGhlbSBmdXJ0aGVyIGl0IHdvdWxk IGNvbXByb21pc2UgdGhlIHJlYWRhYmlsaXR5Lg0KIA0KQm9iICM0MDEwNQ0KIA0K ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:06 PM PST US spamd4.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_5 Message came from 204.96.144-152.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines From: "Bill and Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" Thanks for all the help guys. After careful consideration and re-examining the dent I've decided that it's not that bad. I'll leave it alone for now and see what the paint shop has to recommend if and when I ever get that far. For the meantime, back to the HS. Thanks again, Bill Britton Riveting HS #40137 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darton Steve" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin > --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve > > I would hesitate to drill out any more than just a > couple of rivets, especially a continuous row. You > just can't drill them out without enlarging/elongating > the holes. Also be careful using a rivet gun and a > bucking bar or backing block. This can thin the skin > in that area and cause a "blister" like deformation. I > would leave in the rivets and carefully tap the dent > inward with an auto body hammer. You will then have to > do some cosmetic filling after. > Steve #40212 wings > --- Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > > > While riveting the HS nose ribs in tonight we had an > > accident with the bucking bar and accidentally put a > > dent in the leading edge of the HS skin. I'll try > > to post a picture. If that doesn't happen contact > > me if you can offer any ideas and I'll e-mail you > > the picture. Meanwhile, any thoughts or suggestions > > or do I just let the paint shop work this one out??? > > > > TIA > > Bill Britton > > Riveting HS > > > > > __________________________________ > Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:33 PM PST US From: "James Laura Riley" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Narrow Deck Engine Sam, I have a Jeff Rose electronic ignition system on my IO-360 narrow deck engine. I've flow 150 hours in the past year and a half with no problems what so ever. He offers an excellent system in my opinion. I'm hoping he will come out with a system for the 540's. My engine was built by Bob Barrows (the Bear Hawk guy) out of Virginia. It's been very reliable. I also run premium auto fuel quite often without a hitch. The only thing I've found with the auto fuel is the EGT doesn't run as hot and I'm losing around 3-4 mph top speed. NO BIG DEAL, when I'm saving $20 per tank of gas! Bob recommends using 100LL every third tank to keep the valves running smoothly. My two cents, Jim Riley #40191 finishing wings Does anyone have any experience with Gary Barber of Outlaw Aviation out of Florida? No offense to Floridian's, but the last guy from Florida I dealt with (McClow) was far from reputable! ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:23 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap Positioning System Documentation --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thanks for sending this out Bob. I noticed that the .jpgs to the group came out messed up, but I posted it on my site as well. You can get it off my Tips link (in .jpg or .pdf) from: http://www.myrv10.com/tips or direct here in .pdf http://www.myrv10.com/tips/flap_positioner/FlapPositionerInstall.pdf (The .pdf will be easier to download and read) I also posted some new items that might be of interest to some. I ended up finishing my ordering of large items for the panel today, and quickly wanted to lay out my panel because we're gonna be scrambling to get it cut so it's ready for OSH. To see how the layout would fit, I created the major items in True-size printable .jpg's available on the tips page as well. I taped them up to the panel and tested for fit. I found that with my current layout, the center rib will likely not be an issue, but once again the overall height that Van's provides us with the panel is a very limiting factor. I can make 3-1/8" backup instruments fit, but 2-1/4" fit much better. I have some good photos available on a link off from: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel I'm really starting to wish that they would have made that panel 1" taller. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > Somebody requested the documentation for the Van's flap positioning > system in .pdf. Unfortunately I have a few domestic IT issues that > prevent me from doing the conversion but I've attached .jpg files of > the two pages. Just in case the list strips the attachments I've > cc'd Tim and maybe he can post them. > > Sorry about the file sizes - I was concerned that if I compressed > them further it would compromise the readability. > > Bob #40105 > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:30 PM PST US From: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison --> RV10-List message posted by: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net> Scott, I completely agree with you that aircraft manufacturers should advertise their numbers in knots. They know they should but don't for marketing reasons. Doesn't 200 mph sound better than 176 knots? It does to me. Also, a potential buyer could somehow compare his speed to that of a car (mph) as well as figure mpg, another term we are very familiar with and fond of. If I want to go to Vegas for the weekend and I know it's 200 miles (statute that is) away, then I know my 200 mph airplane will take about an hour to make the flight. Wind is reported in knots, airspeed indicators are in knots, and everything we do when we fly is in knots so why knot report the numbers in knots when advertising the airplane? Marketing, purely marketing. Sad but true. Rob On Jun 2, 2005, at 9:20 AM, Scott Schmidt wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" > > > I do know that Van's posts everything in MPH. I converted everything > from knots to MPH. But I have reported the cruise speed on my > comparison in knots. I will also convert these to knots when I plot > them. I don't know why I used mph right now, I probably looked up the > Van's numbers first and then just stayed consistent with their units. > We need to encourage Van's to get with the aviation units of knots. > > So do you have any thoughts on fuel burn at cruise (around 10,000 > ft.)? > > > Do not archive > > Scott Schmidt > Cell: 801-319-3094 > sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:06 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Scott, > > Quick question...did you take into account that the RV's usually post > their speeds in mph, while many others post in Kts? I'm just > wondering > if you truly know that the below numbers are MPH, or are the digits > themselves the only part that you verified? > > Tim > > Scott Schmidt wrote: > >> Good idea. >> >> OK here is what I have for stall speed: >> >> RV-10 63 mph >> >> 182 56 mph >> >> SR-20 62 mph >> >> SR-22 62 mph >> >> >> >> What do you think for fuel burn for each? They don't list these >> > numbers? > >> >> Fuel Burn >> >> RV-10 >> >> 182 >> >> SR-20 >> >> SR-22 >> >> >> >> Scott Schmidt >> >> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com >> >> >> > -- > >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim >> Dawson-Townsend >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:53 PM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison >> >> >> >> Scott: >> >> >> >> How about adding fuel burn and stall speeds to your charts? >> >> >> >> TDT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Scott >> Schmidt >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:59 PM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: Performance Comparison >> >> Check out this performance comparison I did with the RV-10, >> SR-20, >> SR-22, and 182. >> http://www.freedomflyers.com/Performance%20Comparison.ppt >> >> The RV-10 is a great all-around plane. >> >> >> >> I have updated my website and been working on it for a little >> while. The RV-10 has been so easy to build up to this point that >> > I > >> don't think we have needed much help. The manuals have been >> great. >> > > >> Anyway, now that I am getting to the finishing work I will start >> > to > >> document the work in more detail. www.freedomflyers.com >> >> >> >> >> Scott Schmidt (#40111, FWF and Finishing Kit) >> >> Salt Lake City, UT >> >> Cell: 801-319-3094 >> >> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:45 PM PST US From: Larry Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Randy's Flight video available - the best yet --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry The video was so good I made the entire family watch it. My wife's comment, "I like those seats. They look comfortable." My reply was, "If thats what you want, no problem". I did not mention that they were standard. :-X Larry ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:51 PM PST US From: "son hoang" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison --> RV10-List message posted by: "son hoang" how about visibility..reported in miles !!!!???? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Campbell" <1global@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison > --> RV10-List message posted by: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net> > > Scott, > I completely agree with you that aircraft manufacturers should > advertise their numbers in knots. They know they should but don't > for marketing reasons. Doesn't 200 mph sound better than 176 knots? > It does to me. Also, a potential buyer could somehow compare his > speed to that of a car (mph) as well as figure mpg, another term we > are very familiar with and fond of. If I want to go to Vegas for the > weekend and I know it's 200 miles (statute that is) away, then I know > my 200 mph airplane will take about an hour to make the flight. Wind > is reported in knots, airspeed indicators are in knots, and > everything we do when we fly is in knots so why knot report the > numbers in knots when advertising the airplane? Marketing, purely > marketing. Sad but true. > Rob > > On Jun 2, 2005, at 9:20 AM, Scott Schmidt wrote: > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" > > > > > > I do know that Van's posts everything in MPH. I converted everything > > from knots to MPH. But I have reported the cruise speed on my > > comparison in knots. I will also convert these to knots when I plot > > them. I don't know why I used mph right now, I probably looked up the > > Van's numbers first and then just stayed consistent with their units. > > We need to encourage Van's to get with the aviation units of knots. > > > > So do you have any thoughts on fuel burn at cruise (around 10,000 > > ft.)? > > > > > > Do not archive > > > > Scott Schmidt > > Cell: 801-319-3094 > > sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:06 PM > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > > > Scott, > > > > Quick question...did you take into account that the RV's usually post > > their speeds in mph, while many others post in Kts? I'm just > > wondering > > if you truly know that the below numbers are MPH, or are the digits > > themselves the only part that you verified? > > > > Tim > > > > Scott Schmidt wrote: > > > >> Good idea. > >> > >> OK here is what I have for stall speed: > >> > >> RV-10 63 mph > >> > >> 182 56 mph > >> > >> SR-20 62 mph > >> > >> SR-22 62 mph > >> > >> > >> > >> What do you think for fuel burn for each? They don't list these > >> > > numbers? > > > >> > >> Fuel Burn > >> > >> RV-10 > >> > >> 182 > >> > >> SR-20 > >> > >> SR-22 > >> > >> > >> > >> Scott Schmidt > >> > >> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > >> > >> > >> > > -- > > > >> > >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim > >> Dawson-Townsend > >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:53 PM > >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Performance Comparison > >> > >> > >> > >> Scott: > >> > >> > >> > >> How about adding fuel burn and stall speeds to your charts? > >> > >> > >> > >> TDT > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Scott > >> Schmidt > >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:59 PM > >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > >> *Subject:* RV10-List: Performance Comparison > >> > >> Check out this performance comparison I did with the RV-10, > >> SR-20, > >> SR-22, and 182. > >> http://www.freedomflyers.com/Performance%20Comparison.ppt > >> > >> The RV-10 is a great all-around plane. > >> > >> > >> > >> I have updated my website and been working on it for a little > >> while. The RV-10 has been so easy to build up to this point that > >> > > I > > > >> don't think we have needed much help. The manuals have been > >> great. > >> > > > > > >> Anyway, now that I am getting to the finishing work I will start > >> > > to > > > >> document the work in more detail. www.freedomflyers.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Scott Schmidt (#40111, FWF and Finishing Kit) > >> > >> Salt Lake City, UT > >> > >> Cell: 801-319-3094 > >> > >> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:55 PM PST US From: "Werner Schneider" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap Positioning System Documentation --> RV10-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" Tim, I would avoid to have just one line of switches down there, grouping them in rows of 3-5 depending on the task masks an easy finding in a stressful situation =(;O) which I know will never happen in an RV-10. Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap Positioning System Documentation > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Thanks for sending this out Bob. I noticed that the .jpgs to the group > came out messed up, but I posted it on my site as well. > > You can get it off my Tips link (in .jpg or .pdf) from: > > http://www.myrv10.com/tips > > or direct here in .pdf > http://www.myrv10.com/tips/flap_positioner/FlapPositionerInstall.pdf > (The .pdf will be easier to download and read) > > I also posted some new items that might be of interest to some. I ended > up finishing my ordering of large items for the panel today, and quickly > wanted to lay out my panel because we're gonna be scrambling to get it > cut so it's ready for OSH. To see how the layout would fit, I created > the major items in True-size printable .jpg's available on the tips page > as well. I taped them up to the panel and tested for fit. > > I found that with my current layout, the center rib will likely not be > an issue, but once again the overall height that Van's provides us with > the panel is a very limiting factor. I can make 3-1/8" backup > instruments fit, but 2-1/4" fit much better. I have some good photos > available on a link off from: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel > I'm really starting to wish that they would have made that panel 1" > taller. > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 > Current project: Fuselage > > > Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > > Somebody requested the documentation for the Van's flap positioning > > system in .pdf. Unfortunately I have a few domestic IT issues that > > prevent me from doing the conversion but I've attached .jpg files of > > the two pages. Just in case the list strips the attachments I've > > cc'd Tim and maybe he can post them. > > > > Sorry about the file sizes - I was concerned that if I compressed > > them further it would compromise the readability. > > > > Bob #40105 > > > >