Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:10 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Olson)
2. 05:02 AM - Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Howard Crawford)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
4. 06:38 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John Jessen)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (aeroads@comcast.net)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (John W. Cox)
7. 09:16 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Olson)
8. 09:24 AM - Re: Oshkosh? (Jesse Saint)
9. 09:35 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (brian bollaert)
10. 09:37 AM - arlington flyin (brian bollaert)
11. 10:05 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
12. 10:12 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Olson)
13. 10:42 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John W. Cox)
14. 10:55 AM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (James Ochs)
15. 11:04 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Dan Checkoway)
16. 11:04 AM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John Jessen)
17. 12:35 PM - Re: Oshkosh? (Randy DeBauw)
18. 12:36 PM - Re: arlington flyin (Randy DeBauw)
19. 01:16 PM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (Tim Olson)
20. 01:17 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John W. Cox)
21. 01:22 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John W. Cox)
22. 01:24 PM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (John W. Cox)
23. 01:36 PM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
24. 02:02 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
25. 02:19 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Nikolaos Napoli)
26. 02:20 PM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (Tim Olson)
27. 02:39 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John Jessen)
28. 02:41 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John Jessen)
29. 02:53 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Olson)
30. 04:25 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Rick)
31. 04:42 PM - Panel Rib Mod (Nikolaos Napoli)
32. 05:09 PM - Fw: RV-10 top photos (brian bollaert)
33. 05:17 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (brian bollaert)
34. 05:54 PM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (brian bollaert)
35. 05:55 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (John W. Cox)
36. 06:07 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox)
37. 06:16 PM - Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification (linn walters)
38. 06:49 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (John W. Cox)
39. 07:06 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Greg Young)
40. 07:25 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (Stein Bruch)
41. 07:28 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Greg Young)
42. 07:33 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
43. 07:34 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Greg Young)
44. 07:41 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
45. 07:42 PM - Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals (Tim Olson)
46. 07:52 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Olson)
47. 07:52 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (James Ochs)
48. 08:00 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (Nikolaos Napoli)
49. 08:11 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of James Ochs)
50. 08:19 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
51. 08:21 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (Greg Young)
52. 08:27 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (Tim Olson)
53. 08:29 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve (John W. Cox)
54. 08:33 PM - Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Robin Wessel)
55. 08:41 PM - Re: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals (brian bollaert)
56. 08:52 PM - Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
57. 09:00 PM - Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve ()
58. 09:01 PM - Re: Panel Rib Mod (Tim Olson)
59. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Tim Olson)
60. 10:11 PM - Re: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals (DejaVu)
61. 11:36 PM - Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Robin Wessel)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Any idea of how long it took to get? I'd like to have this
all done this week.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Greg Young wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
>
> You could also replace the fitting on the Andair valve, assuming it's
> one of the side fittings. I got replacements from Andair for ~$12 each.
>
> Greg
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend.
>>Only got started and not finished because as it turns out,
>>the valve that Wicks sells is NOT the one you'd want to do
>>the -10. Van's sells one with 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8"
>>MALE flare. The fix is to send back the Wicks valve and buy
>>one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree swivel
>>Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which
>>way it'll be yet though.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Howard Crawford <crawfordh@mac.panasonic.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com]
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Droopy,
I'll address these as best I can.
GPS: You have my understanding down precisely. I'm not an expert in the
TSO legality area, but from what I've been told, the equipment will be
legal to fly GPS and other approaches....just not WAAS. I will do my
best to find out the true, 100% answer, with something leagalese to
back it up with next week when I can talk to Direct To Avionics. I'll
try to pull some real sold info out of them so we can bury this topic.
Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a great
stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the Sorcerer...
which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
know how nice it would be...or necessary.
EIS: I also think Rob has a fantastic EIS. Everything about it is
spectacular. The only issue (right now) is that it doesn't integrate
into the Chelton if you have it. I don't think you'd lose any EIS
functionality by having the AFS2500....you would be losing out on
some additional Chelton functionality though....(or GRT if you went
that way). The thing is, that 3rd screen, if you put it over on
the right side, isn't JUST an EIS anymore at that point. It's also
a separate HSI, or Attitude display, or Map, or weather screen, or
any of those cool things, for your co-pilot to use. I often fly
with my Father, and we trade flying sometimes. I know I'll likely
not let him fly left seat in my plane....too hard to trust someone
else... :) but, having the 3rd screen will allow him to have all
the info he wants. My wife is also very interested in obtaining
some proficiency in running the maps and stuff. With this in mind,
I view that 3rd screen as being NOT an EIS for quite a bit of time.
I want an attitude, and Map or HSI up most of the time on the
left 2 screens. The right one, well, that will depend on the
situation.....in many cases it might just be an EIS.
I feel I need to apologise to the list for taking up so much bandwidth
on this panel topic...but I think there's a LOT of info out there that
is just not known. And, I think people assume these panels are EXTREME
in cost...so they try to piece together lots of things they want. Some
of the hardest info to come by is good, accurate info on how things
integrate. I've been making this panel my life until I get every
concept pinned down...and I just want to pass along the things I'm
finding out. Hopefully, we can all learn about EVERYONE's system, not
just the Chelton or GRT. I'm not at all a BMA fan anymore, despite
their beautiful Sport screen, but, as we move forward, they will
improve their integration too...so hopefully we can keep some good info
on true capabilities, and keep it current.
From what I've learned recently though, as I HAD to dig the info up
so I could pin down my choices and actually put money into things,
there are really 2 very nice routes to go. The GRT, and the Chelton.
Both will expand your capabilities immensely, and let you have
functions and features not possible in many other combos....and they
enhance the TruTrak as mentioned above...all while saving money.
The Chelton just adds a pile of higher quality and more features on
to the GRT. It's a system for either budget.
Very soon, I'll just sit down and start adding to my panel page. I'll
list known functionalities, with references if possible. That way there
will be a good reference out there without me taking up your bandwidth.
Maybe this weekend I'll get some time, but I'll need to get some
answers yet next week.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Droopy Erickson wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Couple of questions about your panel and the ongoing discussions. First
> off, beautiful panel, similiar in lines to where I'm headed (a couple
> years after you...).
>
> GPS: You mentioned earlier (I'm to lazy to cut and paste from the
> previous messages) that you couple legally fly enroute and terminal
> approaches with the Chelton system, just not WAAS approaches. To do
> that, you have to meet the TSO standards for enroute and terminal GPS.
> Looking through the Chelton literature, it looks like a TSOd GPS
> receiver was only an option on the Pro system. Is this what you're
> getting, or do you know something I don't?
>
> Autopilots: I love the Trutrack autopilots. I'm going with a Dynon as
> my backup gauges vice the round dials (with an appropriate electrical
> system to eliminate single point failures, etc). I feel the autopilot
> gives me a third "backup" to at least get the plane top-side up. The
> only reason I'm personnaly leaning towards the Sorcerer vice the
> Digiflight is ILS capability. The Digiflight does not track ILS
> approaches. My question, however, is whether you've been told the
> Chelton will take the ILS signals, do it's thing to them, then drive the
> Digiflight appropriately? (I guess the other reason for the Sorcerer
> might be the Yaw damper. We'll have to ask Randy as things progress how
> much, if any tail wag this thing has...)
>
> EIS: I really want Rob's AFS2500. Not only do I thing the engine
> display rocks, but I also really like the ability to put checklist pages
> into it. Could you elaborate a little on what Chelton functionality we
> lose if we go with a Chelton 2 screen (the two on the left side of your
> panel) and a 2500 for the engine stuff?
>
> Thanks for the great webpage and the wealth of great info you've
collected!!
>
> John
> #40208 Smelly fuel tanks
Message 3
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used
the origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would
rivet to the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece
which just leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point
where it just meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve
centered in the tunnel with the left point directly left and right
pointing directly right. The problem I am now trying to solve is that
the left inlet to the valve is still too close to the tunnel side that
it is impossible to get the flare connection on a 90 degree fitting in
the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too long to fit. The issue is the
90 degree fitting will not thread far enough into the valve to get
better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90 fitting today that
will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this fitting may have
to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hi all,
I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
it'll be yet though.
I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
read about it in the fuselage section here:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
fuselage interior painting section.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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|
d="scan'208"; a="46444057:sNHT88803932"
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
retrofitting difficulty?
John Jessen
(4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
--> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet to
the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in the
tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly right.
The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve is
still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the flare
connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too
long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far enough
into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90
fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this
fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hi all,
I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
it'll be yet though.
I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
read about it in the fuselage section here:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
fuselage interior painting section.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 5
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|
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
There does not appear to be a delivery or availability problem w/ the fuel valves
but I was prompted to look on the hangar shelf and found a couple of fuel
valves in bags marked 492 013 probably a Cessna part 1/4 NPT ports no
handles photo attached If anyone has a delivery problem I could send them one
Murray Randall
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen"
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
> -->
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
> --
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
There does not appear to be a delivery or availabilityproblemw/ the fuel valves
but I was prompted to look on the hangar shelf and found a couple of fuel valvesin
bags marked 492 013 probably a Cessna part1/4 NPTports no handlesphoto
attachedIf anyone has a delivery problem I could send them one Murray Randall
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <JJESSEN@RCN.COM>
Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
retrofitting difficulty?
John Jessen
(4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
-- RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
-- <RAY.R.DOERR@MAIL.SPRINT.COM>
Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
origal brack to mark t
he position and then made a plate that would rivet to
the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in the
tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly right.
The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve is
still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the flare
connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too
long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far enough
into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90
fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this
fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
<B
R>
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
To: RV10
Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
-- RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <TIM@MYRV10.COM>
Hi all,
I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells
one with
1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
it'll be yet though.
I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
read about it in the fuselage section here:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anywa
==================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
signoff.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
great and valuable service these guys are performing.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
> --> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
Message 8
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|
Sean,
It feels great to be able to sit inside. We have spent our share of time
looking at parts on the shelf, though. We are very excited about flying it.
We had an auto body shop paint it for us. We trailered it over there and
painted it in their shop.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Blair
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh?
Jesse,
The plane looks great!!! What's it like to be able to sit inside instead of
looking at parts on the shelf? Bet you can't wait for the day you fly. Did
you paint it yourself? Very shiny.looks good.
Sean B.
N967SB, reserved
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh?
Here are a few pictures. Now it's time for exhaust and wiring.
N256H #40241
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
Hey Tim :
The -10 is nothing more than John Deer with wings !! , by the way the hing
pin material Per Vans comes in the finishing Kit . Wondering if i should
switch out the fuel selecter valve ? and go with the andair hhhmm .
Brian Bollaert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Good question. Here's my answer:
>
> 1) The standard valve is very ugly
> 2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
> whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
> 3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
> to the left or right position.
> 4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
> just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
> I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
> like to climb around and trade seats.
> 5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
> whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
> STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
> Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
> This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
> led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
> just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
> is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
> 6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
> to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
> flying lawn tractor.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
> >
> > Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
> > retrofitting difficulty?
> >
> > John Jessen
> > (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> > [NTK]
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
> > --> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
> >
> > Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
> > origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet
to
> > the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
> > leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
> > meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in
the
> > tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly
right.
> > The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve
is
> > still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the
flare
> > connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4"
too
> > long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far
enough
> > into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter
90
> > fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that
this
> > fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank You
> > Ray Doerr
> > CDNI Principal Engineer
> > Sprint PCS
> > 16020 West 113th Street
> > Lenexa, KS 66219
> > Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> > (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> > (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> > (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> > Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> > To: RV10
> > Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> > started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> > sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> > 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> > Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> > swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> > it'll be yet though.
> >
> > I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> > from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> > preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> > read about it in the fuselage section here:
> >
> > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
> >
> > Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> > good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> > early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> > me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> > was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
> > tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> > fuselage interior painting section.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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|
Question to the list members, is anyone going to the Arlington Washington Flyin
july 6-10 Vans will have there -10 s up there .
Brian B
Message 11
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
I agree the kit valve leaves a little to be desired, at least the little handle
they've got on it. We're using the regular valve, but may look for a nicer handle
to mount on it down the line, or maybe fab one ourselves . . .
TDT
40025
May finally get a Finish Kit this week!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
> --> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Well Brian, it ain't too late to switch. I don't know how simple
it would be once rudder stuff is all run through, but it may
well be worth the time to make it work, given how that other
valve all came out. I know I'm not comfortable with having the
pointer either point backwards, or using the lever handle
as the pointer and grounding the pointer tip off the valve.
I really think it would be a good time to re-look at that
whole thing. I think that even if you had to put an elbow union
where it goes from tunnel to seat area to make it work out,
it would still be a good opportunity to improve things.
Hmmmm, maybe I should re-work my paint schemes for either
John Deere Green, Ford Tractor Blue, or Catapiller Yellow. ;)
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
brian bollaert wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
>
> Hey Tim :
>
> The -10 is nothing more than John Deer with wings !! , by the way the hing
> pin material Per Vans comes in the finishing Kit . Wondering if i should
> switch out the fuel selecter valve ? and go with the andair hhhmm .
>
> Brian Bollaert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>>Good question. Here's my answer:
>>
>>1) The standard valve is very ugly
>>2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
>>whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
>>3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
>>to the left or right position.
>>4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
>>just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
>>I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
>>like to climb around and trade seats.
>>5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
>>whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
>>STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
>>Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
>>This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
>>led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
>>just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
>>is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
>>6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
>>to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
>>flying lawn tractor.
>>
>>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>>Current project: Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>John Jessen wrote:
>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>>>
>>>Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
>>>retrofitting difficulty?
>>>
>>>John Jessen
>>> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
>>>[NTK]
>>>Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
>>>--> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
>>>
>>>Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
>>>origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet
>
> to
>
>>>the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
>>>leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
>>>meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in
>
> the
>
>>>tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly
>
> right.
>
>>>The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve
>
> is
>
>>>still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the
>
> flare
>
>>>connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4"
>
> too
>
>>>long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far
>
> enough
>
>>>into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter
>
> 90
>
>>>fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that
>
> this
>
>>>fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank You
>>>Ray Doerr
>>>CDNI Principal Engineer
>>>Sprint PCS
>>>16020 West 113th Street
>>>Lenexa, KS 66219
>>>Mailstop KSLNXK0101
>>>(913) 859-1414 (Office)
>>>(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
>>>(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
>>>Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>>Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
>>>To: RV10
>>>Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
>>>started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
>>>sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
>>>1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
>>>Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
>>>swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
>>>it'll be yet though.
>>>
>>>I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
>>>from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
>>>preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
>>>read about it in the fuselage section here:
>>>
>>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>>>
>>>Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
>>>good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
>>>early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
>>>me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
>>>was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
>>>tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
>>>fuselage interior painting section.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Brian, you crack me up on a Monday morning. Just think if N220RV had no
white paint. John Deere Green top and bottom. In reality there is a
lot of Americana attitude that goes with the John Deere design. I can
just hear Toby Keith in the background now shouting from the door of his
Ford Pickup. Even EAA has embraced Green machines.
Unfortunately, just as there is a RV-grin, there is a balancing RV-frown
every time a builder suggests modification of plans, alterations,
improvements or enhancement ideas, more horsepower or changes to their
RV Experimental built aeroplane. Yet my enthusiasm jumps each time I
watch video of Dan Checkoway's flying after he committed Deere blasphemy
by exceeding the 180 hp rule and slipped in that heart thumping 200 hp
Powerplant into his pristine RV-7. I still get a thrill looking at the
HRII or HRIII aesthetically. Lord help anyone suggesting providing
Builder Assist to the congregation during a chant session.
The RV-10 is a great plan, but this is the 21 century and VFR only with
steam gages are indeed slipping the way of classic and antique
aeroplanes of the last century as valued possessions. Tim's panel is a
refreshing perspective of "Being All Your RV-10 Can Be". His willingness
to post progress, ideas, potholes along the road and resources used are
valued.
Three more international certified manufacturers have airframes under
tarp at Garmin-KSLE getting certification for G1000 glass cockpits. I
can smell the roses now - oh that's right... the US Navy fleet just left
Portland from the Rose Festival Weekend. Time to get back to work, but
thanks for the morning smile.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
bollaert
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert"
<bbollaert@comcast.net>
Hey Tim :
The -10 is nothing more than John Deer with wings !! , by the way the
hing
pin material Per Vans comes in the finishing Kit . Wondering if i should
switch out the fuel selecter valve ? and go with the andair hhhmm .
Brian Bollaert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Good question. Here's my answer:
>
> 1) The standard valve is very ugly
> 2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
> whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
> 3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
> to the left or right position.
> 4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
> just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
> I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
> like to climb around and trade seats.
> 5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
> whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
> STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
> Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
> This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
> led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
> just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
> is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
> 6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
> to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
> flying lawn tractor.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
to check each nut against the accepted standards?
Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
Thanks,
James
John W. Cox wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
>Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
>Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
>Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
>signoff.
>
>John - KUAO
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
>To: RV10
>Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
>Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
>
>#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
>preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
>
>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
>
>
>And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
>
> Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
>other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
>come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
>actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
>a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
>so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
>that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
>he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
>of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
>thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
>into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
>probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
>your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
>and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
>least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
>inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
>great and valuable service these guys are performing.
>
>
>
>
--
There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself
at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> RV Experimental built aeroplane. Yet my enthusiasm jumps each time I
> watch video of Dan Checkoway's flying after he committed Deere blasphemy
> by exceeding the 180 hp rule and slipped in that heart thumping 200 hp
Dag bernit...lately every time I get that camera mount set up, ready to go
record some new wacky exploits, some RV builder walks up with his head hung
a little low. I'm on my way out with a gaggle of fun-lovers and this poor
guy has to deburr for another 4 hours. Wanna go? It only takes a minute to
get that camera mount out, and that's how it usually goes.
I need to get some more video going one of these days, though...wish the
camera had been rolling yesterday!!! (lips sealed)
Keep cranking, guys. Do it your way. You're gonna love it!!!
do not archive
)_( Dan "my -10 HS is so long it has two zip codes"
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 16
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|
d="scan'208"; a="49804653:sNHT32569516"
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
They sure did look fine in their dress whites!
do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Brian, you crack me up on a Monday morning. Just think if N220RV had no
white paint. John Deere Green top and bottom. In reality there is a lot of
Americana attitude that goes with the John Deere design. I can just hear
Toby Keith in the background now shouting from the door of his Ford Pickup.
Even EAA has embraced Green machines.
Unfortunately, just as there is a RV-grin, there is a balancing RV-frown
every time a builder suggests modification of plans, alterations,
improvements or enhancement ideas, more horsepower or changes to their RV
Experimental built aeroplane. Yet my enthusiasm jumps each time I watch
video of Dan Checkoway's flying after he committed Deere blasphemy by
exceeding the 180 hp rule and slipped in that heart thumping 200 hp
Powerplant into his pristine RV-7. I still get a thrill looking at the HRII
or HRIII aesthetically. Lord help anyone suggesting providing Builder Assist
to the congregation during a chant session.
The RV-10 is a great plan, but this is the 21 century and VFR only with
steam gages are indeed slipping the way of classic and antique aeroplanes of
the last century as valued possessions. Tim's panel is a refreshing
perspective of "Being All Your RV-10 Can Be". His willingness to post
progress, ideas, potholes along the road and resources used are valued.
Three more international certified manufacturers have airframes under tarp
at Garmin-KSLE getting certification for G1000 glass cockpits. I can smell
the roses now - oh that's right... the US Navy fleet just left Portland from
the Rose Festival Weekend. Time to get back to work, but thanks for the
morning smile.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian bollaert
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert"
<bbollaert@comcast.net>
Hey Tim :
The -10 is nothing more than John Deer with wings !! , by the way the hing
pin material Per Vans comes in the finishing Kit . Wondering if i should
switch out the fuel selecter valve ? and go with the andair hhhmm .
Brian Bollaert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Good question. Here's my answer:
>
> 1) The standard valve is very ugly
> 2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
> whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
> 3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
> to the left or right position.
> 4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
> just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
> I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
> like to climb around and trade seats.
> 5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
> whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
> STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
> Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
> This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
> led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
> just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
> is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
> 6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
> to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
> flying lawn tractor.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
Message 17
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Very nice Jesse! I like your color choice. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh?
Sean,
It feels great to be able to sit inside. We have spent our share of
time looking at parts on the shelf, though. We are very excited about
flying it. We had an auto body shop paint it for us. We trailered it
over there and painted it in their shop.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Blair
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh?
Jesse,
The plane looks great!!! What's it like to be able to sit inside
instead of looking at parts on the shelf? Bet you can't wait for the
day you fly. Did you paint it yourself? Very shiny...looks good.
Sean B.
N967SB, reserved
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh?
Here are a few pictures. Now it's time for exhaust and wiring.
N256H #40241
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 18
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As it turns out, I won't make it to Arlington. I will be out of town
until Sunday Aft. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
bollaert
Subject: RV10-List: arlington flyin
Question to the list members, is anyone going to the Arlington
Washington Flyin july 6-10 Vans will have there -10 s up there .
Brian B
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I believe on all nuts you should see something like 2 or 3 threads
showing of the bolt that protrude completely through the nut...in all
locations. Gary said that yes, nyloc nuts are available in a thinner
design. I haven't looked for them yet though. You also could in
some cases go to a "-L" washer (light=thin) and get back some
of your threads. The problem is, the nuts in question on mine were
part of the threads that are on the fitting that makes up the end
of the aileron lever mechanism at the wing root. So, it isn't as
simple as adding a longer bolt...you'd have to have a new custom
fitting made. So, a thinner nut it is.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
James Ochs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>
> Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
> to check each nut against the accepted standards?
>
> Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
> pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>>
>> Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
>> Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
>> Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
>> signoff.
>>
>> John - KUAO
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
>> To: RV10
>> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
>>
>> #1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
>> preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
>>
>>
>> And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
>>
>> Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
>> other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
>> come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
>> actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
>> a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
>> so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
>> that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
>> he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
>> of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
>> thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
>> into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
>> probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
>> your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
>> and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
>> least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
>> inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
>> great and valuable service these guys are performing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
"Do it your way - 2005". And you haven't been banished to an isolated
colony in the hinterlands?
This must be a strange Monday. Guess I can put away that fifty-five
gallon pail (drum) of Green Water Tower Paint.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> RV Experimental built aeroplane. Yet my enthusiasm jumps each time I
> watch video of Dan Checkoway's flying after he committed Deere
blasphemy
> by exceeding the 180 hp rule and slipped in that heart thumping 200 hp
Dag bernit...lately every time I get that camera mount set up, ready to
go
record some new wacky exploits, some RV builder walks up with his head
hung
a little low. I'm on my way out with a gaggle of fun-lovers and this
poor
guy has to deburr for another 4 hours. Wanna go? It only takes a
minute to
get that camera mount out, and that's how it usually goes.
I need to get some more video going one of these days, though...wish the
camera had been rolling yesterday!!! (lips sealed)
Keep cranking, guys. Do it your way. You're gonna love it!!!
do not archive
)_( Dan "my -10 HS is so long it has two zip codes"
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
That's what my 25 year old daughter said after her visit with four girl
friends to Camp Pendleton on Memorial Day and then back in time for Rose
Festival. But she knows all the right patriotic verses, and she loves
flying in a four passenger 21st century aeroplane.
Some wonder why my hair went from Brown to Shock White in such a short
period.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
They sure did look fine in their dress whites!
do not archive.
Message 22
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| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Longer bolts are best. Randy was going to post the multiple locations
where nuts were replaced to allow more "Thread Show". Both Randy and I
had kid's graduate from University of Oregon this Saturday so he is
probably still in shock over the reality.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
to check each nut against the accepted standards?
Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
Thanks,
James
[John Cox] DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 23
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| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
You can't put a longer bolt in the location because It isn't a bolt at
all. It is the torque tube end that you drill and pop rivet into the
steel tube. The other end has a threaded stud machined on it. You may
not have to use a thinner nut or a high temp self locking nut like I did
depending on what washer combo you end up with to get the spacing
correct. Randy
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Longer bolts are best. Randy was going to post the multiple locations
where nuts were replaced to allow more "Thread Show". Both Randy and I
had kid's graduate from University of Oregon this Saturday so he is
probably still in shock over the reality.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
to check each nut against the accepted standards?
Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
Thanks,
James
[John Cox] DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 24
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
In my mind #3&4 below are the primary reasons to switch valves. The
Andair valve has positive detents only at the 2 fuel tank locations. To
switch the valve you have to lift a button in the middle of the selector
and twist to the off position where it locks.
One other factor for folks that worry stuff is that the valve mechanism
is "make before brake". This means that there isn't a position between
the two tank selections where there is no fuel flowing.
You can absolutely get by with the one in the kit, and most RV builders
have. You can also get by with only a simple set of steam gauges and a
VFR only GPS/COM in the panel. Switching to the Andair valve WILL cost
you some money and time over using the kit supplied valve. However,
when you're finished it won't look like you've adapted a steam valve
from the Queen Mary for use as a fuel selector :)
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all
this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray
R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
> --> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used
the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would
rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which
just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it
just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in
the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly
right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the
valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the
flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" -
1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far
enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter
90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that
this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder
cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put
some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
Message 25
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|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=peeOfv+N6pg4iXUSecCgDswWYoU5wv23A1XPbgsjSGfQIxWeFvwEqq8FJJKUhJ5XDmLYczPlumYbGLXIIongqwH41uqbbA+vASrO4Wcq6om8JO1pBUBs2hCI1aKSX8NFZ+Ij4LTnfG8deK5u9rgb2mBzKIS+aEaIOerY0ogzHUc=
;
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
Hey Tim,
Don't mean to criticize your work, however, I felt I had to mention this. I looked
at the pictures of the cut ribs. The curved surface of the modified ribs
is not capable of carrying much load. The modified rib appears to be much weaker
than the original rib even with the curved stiffener. Without knowing much
about your configuration or how much load it has to carry, I would suggest
at least a doubler on the rib. If you would like you can give me a call my phone
number is in the SunNFun list.
By the way, my background is in Aerospace Engineering specifically structural analysis
of aircraft.
Niko
Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
Hi all,
I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
it'll be yet though.
I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
read about it in the fuselage section here:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
fuselage interior painting section.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Good info Randy.
The moral of the story is: Next time you order from Vans
or Aircraft Spruce, add a bunch of lower profile locknuts in
AN3 and AN4 sizes. Now, if I'd only heeded that advice
this a.m.
Here is a link to some nuts that might make good ones, but
I'm not a hardware expert.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an363.php
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Randy DeBauw wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> You can't put a longer bolt in the location because It isn't a bolt at
> all. It is the torque tube end that you drill and pop rivet into the
> steel tube. The other end has a threaded stud machined on it. You may
> not have to use a thinner nut or a high temp self locking nut like I did
> depending on what washer combo you end up with to get the spacing
> correct. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Longer bolts are best. Randy was going to post the multiple locations
> where nuts were replaced to allow more "Thread Show". Both Randy and I
> had kid's graduate from University of Oregon this Saturday so he is
> probably still in shock over the reality.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:52 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>
> Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
> to check each nut against the accepted standards?
>
> Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
> pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> [John Cox] DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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d="scan'208"; a="49892415:sNHT35470604"
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Thanks. The only RV's I've personally helped with have installed these
valves. They are very well built.
John Jessen
(Amazed at how poorly SW988 sprays on, must be doing something wrong)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
--> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
In my mind #3&4 below are the primary reasons to switch valves. The Andair
valve has positive detents only at the 2 fuel tank locations. To switch the
valve you have to lift a button in the middle of the selector and twist to
the off position where it locks.
One other factor for folks that worry stuff is that the valve mechanism is
"make before brake". This means that there isn't a position between the two
tank selections where there is no fuel flowing.
You can absolutely get by with the one in the kit, and most RV builders
have. You can also get by with only a simple set of steam gauges and a VFR
only GPS/COM in the panel. Switching to the Andair valve WILL cost you some
money and time over using the kit supplied valve. However, when you're
finished it won't look like you've adapted a steam valve from the Queen Mary
for use as a fuel selector :)
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all
this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray
R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
> --> <Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com>
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used
the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would
rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which
just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it
just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in
the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly
right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the
valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the
flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" -
1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far
enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter
90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that
this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder
cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr@mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to read
> about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it was
> mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put
some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
Message 28
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|
d="scan'208,217"; a="49893133:sNHT34507554"
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
When you two figure this out, PLEASE let us know the result. I think we are
all cutting these in some form or other and an example, even though not the
same, since all panels will differ, will certainly benefit all. If there is
an excel spreadsheet that can help out, that would be icing on the cake.
John Jessen
(beginning to like Chilton's, darn)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
Hey Tim,
Don't mean to criticize your work, however, I felt I had to mention this. I
looked at the pictures of the cut ribs. The curved surface of the modified
ribs is not capable of carrying much load. The modified rib appears to be
much weaker than the original rib even with the curved stiffener. Without
knowing much about your configuration or how much load it has to carry, I
would suggest at least a doubler on the rib. If you would like you can give
me a call my phone number is in the SunNFun list.
By the way, my background is in Aerospace Engineering specifically
structural analysis of aircraft.
Niko
Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
Hi all,
I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
it'll be yet though.
I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
read about it in the fuselage section here:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
Also, I did my interior painting today. My end
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Understood. But, let me ask a question back. #1, the rib is
now effectively "doubled" by more than it's original thickness
in the vertical plane. It used to have a thin horizontal bend
on the bottom of the rib, made out of the rib itself. This
piece surely isn't very structural at those bends, but it is
a .063 angle, which is thicker than the rib material orignally
was....and since it's actually aluminum angle it should be
pretty strong on the other half. If someone were to want to
go for a little more strength, by just not bending the
aluminum strip, you'd probably gain way more back than the
original rib had. The way it sits now, I don't feel that it's
too terribly different than original. About the only weaker
dimension would be if you were to pull directly downward
on that rib, and managed to fold the rib along one of those
curved areas. Another option as you noted would be to actually
put a doubler plate over that rib in addition. This would
increase the strength a lot too. When I cut the rib out,
before I put the new piece in, I pulled on that rib a bit
and with the upper skin riveted everywhere as well, and in
that arched curve shape, it seems to be very stiff anyway
and should be pretty resistant to any type of bend.
I'm not saying it shouldn't have any more added to it than
it does...you'd know better than me with your background.
I do think it should be plenty adequate, but it could also
be improved on. I'll look at it a little more tonight.
The everyday loads on that part aren't that big at all.
It would only be in the extreme crash scenario where I'd
have any question at all. Remember that there's more
structure in place once you tie the cross piece under the panel
into the airframe, and the panel itself would prevent that rib
from bending down.
But, your comments are well taken and are exactly the kinds
of things I want to hear and are nice to see on this list.
I may just call you tonight if I get time.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Nikolaos Napoli wrote:
> Hey Tim,
>
> Don't mean to criticize your work, however, I felt I had to mention
> this. I looked at the pictures of the cut ribs. The curved surface of
> the modified ribs is not capable of carrying much load. The modified
> rib appears to be much weaker than the original rib even with the curved
> stiffener. Without knowing much about your configuration or how much
> load it has to carry, I would suggest at least a doubler on the rib. If
> you would like you can give me a call my phone number is in the SunNFun
> list.
>
> By the way, my background is in Aerospace Engineering specifically
> structural analysis of aircraft.
>
> Niko
>
>
>
> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end
Message 30
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
John,
Isn't it a lot more comforting to relate to the number of rivets left in lbs/oz???
Cool response!!!
Rick S.
40185
Wings
do not archive
Message 31
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=L8n2o77n9gzjwz+zpXb60T2/wcRRR5ZmO5dQxOFofNiuNd43+RIAU0It7V4hkbhHb8wFxLnzeEjvuZOcpoba4EHPbEO3kkFgYtSCdzkWRzIRlGPxW4kKo4S/3JK/+r1kD7tF2miTZfMdCCB6sZ4SQ50NrIJZWa52CbBYAvAX/U0=
;
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
Message 32
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| Subject: | Fw: RV-10 top photos |
To the group :
For others that may have trouble figureing where to trim these pieces on the
fiberglass top .
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Risan " <scottr@vansaircraft.com>
Subject: RV-10 top photos
> here's a couple photos with approximate trim lines. If you can't see
> the scribe lines, leave this proud so that you can trim a little as
> the installation progresses.
>
> regards, scott at van's
>
>
----
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> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
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> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
>
> ---- File information -----------
> File: Door2.jpg
> Date: 13 Jun 2005, 13:01
> Size: 83279 bytes.
> Type: JPEG-image
>
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> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
> If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
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> ---- File information -----------
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> Date: 13 Jun 2005, 12:31
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
Well said John (glad i could bring a smile with coffee ) Tim is very much an
asset , with all his contributions as are all who do so ! this area is very
much a online university and free at that (just your time )
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Brian, you crack me up on a Monday morning. Just think if N220RV had no
> white paint. John Deere Green top and bottom. In reality there is a
> lot of Americana attitude that goes with the John Deere design. I can
> just hear Toby Keith in the background now shouting from the door of his
> Ford Pickup. Even EAA has embraced Green machines.
>
> Unfortunately, just as there is a RV-grin, there is a balancing RV-frown
> every time a builder suggests modification of plans, alterations,
> improvements or enhancement ideas, more horsepower or changes to their
> RV Experimental built aeroplane. Yet my enthusiasm jumps each time I
> watch video of Dan Checkoway's flying after he committed Deere blasphemy
> by exceeding the 180 hp rule and slipped in that heart thumping 200 hp
> Powerplant into his pristine RV-7. I still get a thrill looking at the
> HRII or HRIII aesthetically. Lord help anyone suggesting providing
> Builder Assist to the congregation during a chant session.
>
> The RV-10 is a great plan, but this is the 21 century and VFR only with
> steam gages are indeed slipping the way of classic and antique
> aeroplanes of the last century as valued possessions. Tim's panel is a
> refreshing perspective of "Being All Your RV-10 Can Be". His willingness
> to post progress, ideas, potholes along the road and resources used are
> valued.
>
> Three more international certified manufacturers have airframes under
> tarp at Garmin-KSLE getting certification for G1000 glass cockpits. I
> can smell the roses now - oh that's right... the US Navy fleet just left
> Portland from the Rose Festival Weekend. Time to get back to work, but
> thanks for the morning smile.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> John - KUAO
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
> bollaert
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:33 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert"
> <bbollaert@comcast.net>
>
> Hey Tim :
>
> The -10 is nothing more than John Deer with wings !! , by the way the
> hing
> pin material Per Vans comes in the finishing Kit . Wondering if i should
> switch out the fuel selecter valve ? and go with the andair hhhmm .
>
> Brian Bollaert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> > Good question. Here's my answer:
> >
> > 1) The standard valve is very ugly
> > 2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
> > whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
> > 3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
> > to the left or right position.
> > 4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
> > just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
> > I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
> > like to climb around and trade seats.
> > 5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
> > whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
> > STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
> > Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
> > This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
> > led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
> > just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
> > is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
> > 6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
> > to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
> > flying lawn tractor.
> >
> > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> > Current project: Fuselage
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
Hi James :
an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and looked
over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not comfortable
with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the nut (makes sense
to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6 threads shoul be visable
he said .
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>
> Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
> to check each nut against the accepted standards?
>
> Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
> pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> >
> >Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
> >Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
> >Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
> >signoff.
> >
> >John - KUAO
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> >Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
> >To: RV10
> >Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
> >
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> >Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
> >
> >#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
> >preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
> >
> >http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
> >
> >
> >And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
> >
> > Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
> >other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
> >come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
> >actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
> >a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
> >so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
> >that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
> >he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
> >of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
> >thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
> >into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
> >probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
> >your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
> >and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
> >least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
> >inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
> >great and valuable service these guys are performing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw
yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to
the Galaxy'
>
>
Message 35
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|
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated.
However, your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal
edge into four independent and separate elements. Tim's work introduced
bends into this (diagonal curved) edge without cuts clear through, which
would decrease strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which
were effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There
must be a computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled
design with comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the
weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and the
effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down
force on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs
F-1045-L & R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the
instrument panel and sunscreen to give the widest range of ergonomically
placed and visually oriented safety equipment. It creates a conundrum
on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's stuff so stylishly without
engineering compromise.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos
Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however,
unless I knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace
the original strength.
Niko
40188
Message 36
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|
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any material
from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
________________________________
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated. However,
your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent
and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends into this (diagonal
curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease strength yet
his cuts were only on the vertical which were effectively doubled back into
the original rib vertical. There must be a computer analysis that could computate
the revised doubled design with comparison to the original rib. We could
calculate the weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology)
and the effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force
on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L &
R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and sunscreen
to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety
equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's
stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
You can answer a lot of fastener questions by going to AC 43.13 which is
here:
<http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument&Highlight=43>
and has everything you need to know about repairs (also applies to
original construction) in all kinds of medium. Chapter 4 covers metal
structure, welding and brazing. I should keep my copy next to the john,
but it stays in my hangar. ;-)
Linn
do not archive
brian bollaert wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
>
>Hi James :
>
>an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and looked
>over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not comfortable
>with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the nut (makes sense
>to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6 threads shoul be visable
>he said .
>
>Brian B
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:52 AM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>>
>>Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
>>to check each nut against the accepted standards?
>>
>>Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
>>pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>James
>>
>>John W. Cox wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>>>
>>>Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
>>>Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
>>>Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
>>>signoff.
>>>
>>>John - KUAO
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
>>>To: RV10
>>>Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>>Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
>>>
>>>#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
>>>preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
>>>
>>>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
>>>
>>>
>>>And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
>>>
>>> Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
>>>other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
>>>come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
>>>actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
>>>a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
>>>so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
>>>that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
>>>he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
>>>of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
>>>thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
>>>into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
>>>probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
>>>your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
>>>and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
>>>least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
>>>inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
>>>great and valuable service these guys are performing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw
>>
>>
>yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to
>the Galaxy'
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
"Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib subassembly
OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward) Fuselage Rib is not
allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT of said components.
I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft portions on F-1044
Center Subassembly towards the PIC at F-1003C-Left, Center and Right from
F-1068B Center going AFT on F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT on F- 1045
Right would be reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's modification is within
the scope of current written instructions on Page 41-2 dated July 21, 2004.
Good news for pursuit of 21st Century instruments.
I must still be missing something.
On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue room for Chelton,
BMA, GRapids or other glass components while keeping the music "On Key".
It is a great discussion point and demonstrates the value of this forum.
John - $00.02
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any material
from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated. However,
your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent
and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends into this (diagonal
curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease strength yet
his cuts were only on the vertical which were effectively doubled back into the
original rib vertical. There must be a computer analysis that could computate
the revised doubled design with comparison to the original rib. We could calculate
the weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and
the effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force
on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L &
R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and sunscreen
to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety
equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's
stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
Message 39
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Can't help you there - I got mine at their booth at Oshkosh last year.
You might try some of the vendors like Spruce, Avery, Cleaveland.
Greg
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Any idea of how long it took to get? I'd like to have this
> all done this week.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Greg Young wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
> >
> > You could also replace the fitting on the Andair valve,
> assuming it's
> > one of the side fittings. I got replacements from Andair
> for ~$12 each.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Message 40
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|
d="scan'208"; a="1014167796:sNHT53464912"
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Anyone on this list that built a slider RV6, 7 or 9 of past will recall
exactly the same issues. In fact, a very large majority of anyone who put
anything other than 2 instruments in their panel had to modify those ribs.
The design is nearly identical, and the issue is nearly identical. It's
been pretty common practice for quite a number of years now to modify those
ribs FORWARD of the sub panel (not behind) to accomodate a variety of
instruments - NOT just glass, which brings up the second subject...the sub
panel itself. Give the depth of many radios, transponders, etc... sometimes
people have to hack holes in the sub-panel as well. No nearly as big of a
deal in the -10 because of the room, but the 3 panel ribs have the same
issue the rest of the fleet has had for years. Anyone who put a radio stack
in the center of the panel usually had to gently "modify" for that reason as
well.
Standard practice has pretty much become to do nearly exactly what Tim O did
(or variation thereof). Van's may not openly endorse such practices, but
that's what's happened over the years. If you build a panel like Van's does
with nothing in it, it's not a problem, but the other 99% of us that put
more than 4 gauges in the panel will end up dealing with it sooner or later
in some form or another.
Not saying any way is better than another to do the mods, but from a
"strength" standpoint, Tim's ribs probably ended up stronger than the
original, as did many who modified them in similar ways.
Anyway, just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
"Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib
subassembly OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward)
Fuselage Rib is not allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT of
said components.
I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft portions
on F-1044 Center Subassembly towards the PIC at F-1003C-Left, Center and
Right from F-1068B Center going AFT on F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT
on F- 1045 Right would be reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's
modification is within the scope of current written instructions on Page
41-2 dated July 21, 2004. Good news for pursuit of 21st Century
instruments.
I must still be missing something.
On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue room for
Chelton, BMA, GRapids or other glass components while keeping the music "On
Key". It is a great discussion point and demonstrates the value of this
forum.
John - $00.02
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any
material from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated.
However, your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge
into four independent and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends
into this (diagonal curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would
decrease strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which were
effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There must be a
computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled design with
comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the weight of desired
safety components (glass cockpit technology) and the effective arm down to
00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L
& R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and
sunscreen to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually
oriented safety equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able
to mount Randy's stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I
knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original
strength.
Niko
40188
Message 41
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
Speaking of John Deere schemes... It's nice to have a graphic artist
working for you8-)
Greg
Do not archive
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should re-work my paint schemes for either
> John Deere Green, Ford Tractor Blue, or Catapiller Yellow. ;)
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 42
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Heh, heh. When you guys say "forward of the sub panel" you actually mean "aft
of the sub panel", right? (i.e. toward the rear of the aircraft . . .)
TDT
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Anyone on this list that built a slider RV6, 7 or 9 of past will recall
exactly the same issues. In fact, a very large majority of anyone who put
anything other than 2 instruments in their panel had to modify those ribs.
The design is nearly identical, and the issue is nearly identical. It's
been pretty common practice for quite a number of years now to modify those
ribs FORWARD of the sub panel (not behind) to accomodate a variety of
instruments - NOT just glass, which brings up the second subject...the sub
panel itself. Give the depth of many radios, transponders, etc... sometimes
people have to hack holes in the sub-panel as well. No nearly as big of a
deal in the -10 because of the room, but the 3 panel ribs have the same
issue the rest of the fleet has had for years. Anyone who put a radio stack
in the center of the panel usually had to gently "modify" for that reason as
well.
Standard practice has pretty much become to do nearly exactly what Tim O did
(or variation thereof). Van's may not openly endorse such practices, but
that's what's happened over the years. If you build a panel like Van's does
with nothing in it, it's not a problem, but the other 99% of us that put
more than 4 gauges in the panel will end up dealing with it sooner or later
in some form or another.
Not saying any way is better than another to do the mods, but from a
"strength" standpoint, Tim's ribs probably ended up stronger than the
original, as did many who modified them in similar ways.
Anyway, just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
"Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib
subassembly OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward)
Fuselage Rib is not allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT of
said components.
I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft portions
on F-1044 Center Subassembly towards the PIC at F-1003C-Left, Center and
Right from F-1068B Center going AFT on F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT
on F- 1045 Right would be reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's
modification is within the scope of current written instructions on Page
41-2 dated July 21, 2004. Good news for pursuit of 21st Century
instruments.
I must still be missing something.
On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue room for
Chelton, BMA, GRapids or other glass components while keeping the music "On
Key". It is a great discussion point and demonstrates the value of this
forum.
John - $00.02
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any
material from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated.
However, your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge
into four independent and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends
into this (diagonal curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would
decrease strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which were
effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There must be a
computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled design with
comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the weight of desired
safety components (glass cockpit technology) and the effective arm down to
00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L
& R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and
sunscreen to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually
oriented safety equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able
to mount Randy's stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I
knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original
strength.
Niko
40188
Message 43
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
Cute.
How about some Navion-style tip tanks on an RV-10? That might look good . . .
TDT
do not archive
________________________________
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
Speaking of John Deere schemes... It's nice to have a graphic artist
working for you8-)
Greg
Do not archive
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should re-work my paint schemes for either
> John Deere Green, Ford Tractor Blue, or Catapiller Yellow. ;)
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
My McDonald-Douglas Navion friends are out in the parking lot drinking
beers, shouting Toby Kieth verse and getting ready to paint that water
tower right now. Guess they beat us to it.
John
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
Speaking of John Deere schemes... It's nice to have a graphic artist
working for you8-)
Greg
Do not archive
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should re-work my paint schemes for either
> John Deere Green, Ford Tractor Blue, or Catapiller Yellow. ;)
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
If anyone else got confused by this, let me know so I don't
feel like such a moron....
So, I assembled my rudder pedals, and riveted them nicely.
primed in between the pedal and doubler, and decided I
wanted nice shiny silver pedals. So, I only painted the
"back" side. Which side is the back??? Well, of course,
the rudder pedal with it's raised edges will cup your shoe
of course, right? NOT!! Tonight I went to actually
bolt in those pedals. I found that things weren't looking
quite right per-plans. I thought perhaps the plans were
off....until I looked at Randy's photos (worth a million
bucks if you ask me). Sure as shinola those pedals go
in so that they do not cup your feet....the concave side
goes away from your foot. The thing that really confused
it is that they show the doubler riveted onto what
seemed to be the "back" side (really the front). So, my
nice round-head rivets were on the back of the pedal in
reality, and my foot would go on the shop head. Randy
didn't rivet his per plans, from what I can tell. He put
the doubler on the concave side of the pedal. This gives
a smoother looking pedal since it doesn't have that ridge
around the doubler in view. I see no issue with this.
So, I drilled out each one of those rivets, and now I have
to rivet them and paint them before I continue again...and
they won't be that shiny silver anymore, but will have to
match my interior paint.
Oh well. Just thought I'd bring it up so that future
builders don't have to make that mistake.
Am I the only one?
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Tell me that's photoshop, not real!!!!!! Around the prop I think
I can tell it was altered....but man that's a good job! Even
has the right lighting effects!
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Greg Young wrote:
> Speaking of John Deere schemes... It's nice to have a graphic artist
> working for you8-)
>
> Greg
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>>Hmmmm, maybe I should re-work my paint schemes for either
>>John Deere Green, Ford Tractor Blue, or Catapiller Yellow. ;)
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>>Current project: Fuselage
>>
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 47
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
I know it would be non-trivial, and I haven't really looked at how that area
goes together (still working on my HS) but maybe one way to deal with it is
to build some sort of truss, like with aluminum tubing or with I beams or
something other than the ribs, so that you could get the same or better
strength and use up less real estate.
What are those ribs actually supporting? Just the glare shield and
instruments? Or are they taking some of the loading from the canopy /
firewall?
I do have to say that Van's (the company in general) attitude towards
instrumentation is, in my opinion, short-sighted and unrealistic, and is
bordering on annoying the crap out of me ;) It seems that the whole reason
they put out the 10 is so that people could have a solid x-country plane
that carries passengers. This is going to obviate the desire for IFR and
new instrumentation. Even if they didn't think about it to begin with, then
I would think that enough customers saying "hey, we can't get anything but
the minimums for vfr flight in the panel and this is a problem" would
motivate them to redesign or suggest ways to work around the current design.
Do not archive
James
#40400
Countersinking the HS spars
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Anyone on this list that built a slider RV6, 7 or 9 of past will recall
exactly the same issues. In fact, a very large majority of anyone who put
anything other than 2 instruments in their panel had to modify those ribs.
The design is nearly identical, and the issue is nearly identical. It's
been pretty common practice for quite a number of years now to modify those
ribs FORWARD of the sub panel (not behind) to accomodate a variety of
instruments - NOT just glass, which brings up the second subject...the sub
panel itself. Give the depth of many radios, transponders, etc... sometimes
people have to hack holes in the sub-panel as well. No nearly as big of a
deal in the -10 because of the room, but the 3 panel ribs have the same
issue the rest of the fleet has had for years. Anyone who put a radio stack
in the center of the panel usually had to gently "modify" for that reason as
well.
Standard practice has pretty much become to do nearly exactly what Tim O did
(or variation thereof). Van's may not openly endorse such practices, but
that's what's happened over the years. If you build a panel like Van's does
with nothing in it, it's not a problem, but the other 99% of us that put
more than 4 gauges in the panel will end up dealing with it sooner or later
in some form or another.
Not saying any way is better than another to do the mods, but from a
"strength" standpoint, Tim's ribs probably ended up stronger than the
original, as did many who modified them in similar ways.
Anyway, just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
"Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib
subassembly OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward)
Fuselage Rib is not allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT of
said components.
I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft portions
on F-1044 Center Subassembly towards the PIC at F-1003C-Left, Center and
Right from F-1068B Center going AFT on F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT
on F- 1045 Right would be reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's
modification is within the scope of current written instructions on Page
41-2 dated July 21, 2004. Good news for pursuit of 21st Century
instruments.
I must still be missing something.
On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue room for
Chelton, BMA, GRapids or other glass components while keeping the music "On
Key". It is a great discussion point and demonstrates the value of this
forum.
John - $00.02
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any
material from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated.
However, your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge
into four independent and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends
into this (diagonal curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would
decrease strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which were
effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There must be a
computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled design with
comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the weight of desired
safety components (glass cockpit technology) and the effective arm down to
00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L
& R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and
sunscreen to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually
oriented safety equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able
to mount Randy's stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I
knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original
strength.
Niko
40188
Message 48
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=4sLUPEsawyB/m1xIDS+nqjNzGyEJOWghDQHGhfR7R6021/AlbOAFwpV9ssYPFhC5M1eW/lbvHnCrwHNMdSpGP/ietXknLRLMenSBDQrvVMSTXsxHrFhb42HIIDBYgIRvpz7C/uGA2A8BnMvHtqLbweAGthH1LByyaP4hc3vphcM=
;
Keep in mind that I have not studied the area in question. I have simply spent
a few minutes looking at Tims drawings and realized that a good portion of the
original strength of the part was not there. In fact I am not sure how the
joints look at either end of the rib which could turn out to be very significant.
In the sketch I am intending to show the horizontal stiffener as a single piece
from front to back. It will carry the axial load resulting from the bending
moment and tranfer some of it to the diagonal member and shear the rest into the
web. This member combined with the diagonal and vertical members creates a
truss structure. The vertical member at the deep end of the rib helps distribute
the load from the horizontal member to the top and bottom members as I doubt
the adjoining rib has any significant structure where the horizontal member
ends.
I have not sized any of these members, however, I suspect the horizontal member
would have to be pretty beefy compared to what was there originally. If one
took the original rib and simply reduced its height by a factor of 2 the resulting
bending strength would be 1/4 of the original thus I would be expecting
to add a lot of material in the narrow section. Maybe not 4 times as much if
done smartly. What I am saying here is that the bending stress in the part is
a quadratic function of the height. All things being equal, If you half the
height you need 4 times the thickness.
At the regions I pointed out (mod 1) the vertical leg of the stiffener is not
there and the horizontal leg is curved which makes it not very effective. An
example would be to look at a straight angle and imagine you are standing it
up on its edge an applying a compressive load like a column. If you took that
same angle and put a large bend in it along its length it would only carry a
small fraction of its original load. Essentially the stiffener at the bottom
of the rib, having a large curvature, can't carry much axial load thats why you
rarely see curved stiffeners in an aircraft. When they have to be curved additional
support has to be provided to support the curvature. About the only
thing the curved stiffener in mod#1 can do effectively is keep that edge of the
rib from buckling. Of course maybe thats the only thing it has to do.
Thus if you combine about a 75% reduction in strength due to the loss of height
with another loss due to the fact that the stiffener is curved you end up with
very little strength compared to the original part. Is the remaining strength
sufficient? I don't know. Currently I have no idea what the actual loads
are and what direction they are in or the details of the structure here. Vans
does have a tendency to overdesign a lot of areas so it could be that the stresses
here are very low.
Can the static loads be estimated and an analysis performed to see if the part
is adequate statically? Yes it can, its not that difficult. A bigger question
would be the vibratory environment its subjected to. That introduces a very
large number of very small loads. Under such environment the allowable fatigue
stresses in alluminum are very low and you don't get the benefit of material
yielding you typically get under static loading. You could possibly expect
the part to be fine under static loads but develop cracks shortly after its put
to use. At that point if one has a hard landing they might find a whole bunch
of equipment sitting on their lap or worse. Analysis for dynamic loads could
be done, however, it would be a lot more involved and time consuming.
Look at it this way. A person can withstand a 10g crash. With the current seat
lets say the aircraft is seeing 15g and the person is seeing 10g (just a guess
not based on anything). A 10lb piece of equipment will exert a 150lb load.
If it lets go and hits someone that person will not do very well as the force
of impact will be even greater.
Having done this for more than 20 yrs now on both military and commercial aircraft
I feel a lot more comfortable replacing the original strength than trying
to figure out what the actual static and vibratory loads are especially as it
appears the drawings are warning against mods here. I am planning on taking
a better look at this area to see if I am missing any of the details. An item
of importance would be how the rib flanges are attached, if they are, to the
rest of the structure.
Niko
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated. However,
your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent
and separate elements. Tims work introduced bends into this (diagonal
curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease strength yet
his cuts were only on the vertical which were effectively doubled back into the
original rib vertical. There must be a computer analysis that could computate
the revised doubled design with comparison to the original rib. We could
calculate the weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and
the effective arm down to 00.01 then couldnt you derive the lever down force
on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L &
R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and sunscreen
to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety
equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randys
stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
Message 49
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|
On the other hand, the design they had was fairly tried and true, and they had
hundreds of people chanting, "Ship us kits! Ship us kits!" - so there are always
compromises . . .
TDT
do not archive
________________________________
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
I know it would be non-trivial, and I haven't really looked at how that area
goes together (still working on my HS) but maybe one way to deal with it is
to build some sort of truss, like with aluminum tubing or with I beams or
something other than the ribs, so that you could get the same or better
strength and use up less real estate.
What are those ribs actually supporting? Just the glare shield and
instruments? Or are they taking some of the loading from the canopy /
firewall?
I do have to say that Van's (the company in general) attitude towards
instrumentation is, in my opinion, short-sighted and unrealistic, and is
bordering on annoying the crap out of me ;) It seems that the whole reason
they put out the 10 is so that people could have a solid x-country plane
that carries passengers. This is going to obviate the desire for IFR and
new instrumentation. Even if they didn't think about it to begin with, then
I would think that enough customers saying "hey, we can't get anything but
the minimums for vfr flight in the panel and this is a problem" would
motivate them to redesign or suggest ways to work around the current design.
Do not archive
James
#40400
Countersinking the HS spars
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Anyone on this list that built a slider RV6, 7 or 9 of past will recall
exactly the same issues. In fact, a very large majority of anyone who put
anything other than 2 instruments in their panel had to modify those ribs.
The design is nearly identical, and the issue is nearly identical. It's
been pretty common practice for quite a number of years now to modify those
ribs FORWARD of the sub panel (not behind) to accomodate a variety of
instruments - NOT just glass, which brings up the second subject...the sub
panel itself. Give the depth of many radios, transponders, etc... sometimes
people have to hack holes in the sub-panel as well. No nearly as big of a
deal in the -10 because of the room, but the 3 panel ribs have the same
issue the rest of the fleet has had for years. Anyone who put a radio stack
in the center of the panel usually had to gently "modify" for that reason as
well.
Standard practice has pretty much become to do nearly exactly what Tim O did
(or variation thereof). Van's may not openly endorse such practices, but
that's what's happened over the years. If you build a panel like Van's does
with nothing in it, it's not a problem, but the other 99% of us that put
more than 4 gauges in the panel will end up dealing with it sooner or later
in some form or another.
Not saying any way is better than another to do the mods, but from a
"strength" standpoint, Tim's ribs probably ended up stronger than the
original, as did many who modified them in similar ways.
Anyway, just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
"Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib
subassembly OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward)
Fuselage Rib is not allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT of
said components.
I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft portions
on F-1044 Center Subassembly towards the PIC at F-1003C-Left, Center and
Right from F-1068B Center going AFT on F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT
on F- 1045 Right would be reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's
modification is within the scope of current written instructions on Page
41-2 dated July 21, 2004. Good news for pursuit of 21st Century
instruments.
I must still be missing something.
On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue room for
Chelton, BMA, GRapids or other glass components while keeping the music "On
Key". It is a great discussion point and demonstrates the value of this
forum.
John - $00.02
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any
material from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated.
However, your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge
into four independent and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends
into this (diagonal curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would
decrease strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which were
effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There must be a
computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled design with
comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the weight of desired
safety components (glass cockpit technology) and the effective arm down to
00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L
& R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and
sunscreen to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually
oriented safety equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able
to mount Randy's stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I
knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original
strength.
Niko
40188
Message 50
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
My post was the verbatim company mantra.... Forward of the sub panel "No touchy".
Aft is not prohibited. Stein clarifies that the design goes back to the 20th
century, does not reflect current aircraft instrumentation technology and
led many previous builders to do what was needed - sing off tune. Even if on
the wrong side of the Mason-Dixon line. You might say "McFly... McFly is anyone
there?" but then we would have to modify for the Flux Capacitor too. You're
the builder, make it work even if it requires work arounds.
If you're still reading the music, then were on the verse that begins "the builder
should read this section in its entirety before selecting equipment." Then
attend OSH-05, the year of the RV-10 and smell the roses... I mean, see the
forward thinking trends and decide which side of the century mark you want to
embrace. I embrace the equipment to meet the mission and fit into my budget that's
why the 10 is so darn attractive from many perspectives. Back to earning
income to pay for that passion.
John - $00.02
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Heh, heh. When you guys say "forward of the sub panel" you actually mean "aft of
the sub panel", right? (i.e. toward the rear of the aircraft. . .)
TDT
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Anyone on this list that built a slider RV6, 7 or 9 of past will recall
exactly the same issues. In fact, a very large majority of anyone who put
anything other than 2 instruments in their panel had to modify those ribs.
The design is nearly identical, and the issue is nearly identical. It's
been pretty common practice for quite a number of years now to modify those
ribs FORWARD of the sub panel (not behind) to accommodate a variety of
instruments - NOT just glass, which brings up the second subject...the sub
panel itself. Give the depth of many radios, transponders, etc... sometimes
people have to hack holes in the sub-panel as well. No nearly as big of a
deal in the -10 because of the room, but the 3 panel ribs have the same
issue the rest of the fleet has had for years. Anyone who put a radio stack
in the center of the panel usually had to gently "modify" for that reason as
well.
Standard practice has pretty much become to do nearly exactly what Tim O did
(or variation thereof). Van's may not openly endorse such practices, but
that's what's happened over the years. If you build a panel like Van's does
with nothing in it, it's not a problem, but the other 99% of us that put
more than 4 gauges in the panel will end up dealing with it sooner or later
in some form or another.
Not saying any way is better than another to do the mods, but from a
"strength" standpoint, Tim's ribs probably ended up stronger than the
original, as did many who modified them in similar ways.
Anyway, just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
Message 51
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Yeah, it's Photoshop. My guy's really good, particularly if I give him
enough time. He even got me on this one. I had some concerns about the
security of my hubcaps and when I saw the yellow wheels I thought I had
lost one. I had to run out to the hangar and check (our office is next
to my hangar.) He grabbed wheels from an ad and stuck them on it. Some
of his other schemes are at http://oplnk.net/~gyoung/Navion-Pictures.htm
Greg
Do not archive
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Tell me that's photoshop, not real!!!!!! Around the prop I
> think I can tell it was altered....but man that's a good job!
> Even has the right lighting effects!
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: Panel Rib Mod |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
And being that their attitude is that this is a great VFR X/C
plane, I'd rather have them just think that happy little
thought to theirselves rather than have them not make the
kit in the first place. I suppose the liability aspect is
probably the main driver in their motivations.....Flying IFR
isn't really a small deal and does take lots of skill to
do right without killing yourself. So, they sell a plane,
make it a little tough to turn into a hard IFR plane, and
then they can use the defense "well, it wasn't designed
for that", whenever someone bites the dust. Make no mistake
about it....we have 4 flying RV-10's already, but by the time
we hit 1000 or two of them, I truly expect that at least one of
them will have gone down in flames. It's just a statistical
near-inevitability. I'll be hoping it isn't me, and you'll
all probably be hoping the same thing.... (that it's not me. ;) )
Anyway, I can see how they possibly form their
opinion...maybe. I don't feel that way myself.
At least with today's instrumentation, you can still get an
IFR panel in that space, as I'm trying to prove.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> On the other hand, the design they had was fairly tried and true, and
> they had hundreds of people chanting, "Ship us kits! Ship us kits!"
> - so there are always compromises . . .
>
> TDT
>
> do not archive
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of James Ochs
> Sent: Mon 6/13/2005 10:52 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
> RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
>
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
>
> I know it would be non-trivial, and I haven't really looked at how
> that area goes together (still working on my HS) but maybe one way to
> deal with it is to build some sort of truss, like with aluminum
> tubing or with I beams or something other than the ribs, so that you
> could get the same or better strength and use up less real estate.
>
> What are those ribs actually supporting? Just the glare shield and
> instruments? Or are they taking some of the loading from the canopy
> / firewall?
>
> I do have to say that Van's (the company in general) attitude towards
> instrumentation is, in my opinion, short-sighted and unrealistic,
> and is bordering on annoying the crap out of me ;) It seems that the
> whole reason they put out the 10 is so that people could have a solid
> x-country plane that carries passengers. This is going to obviate
> the desire for IFR and new instrumentation. Even if they didn't
> think about it to begin with, then I would think that enough
> customers saying "hey, we can't get anything but the minimums for vfr
> flight in the panel and this is a problem" would motivate them to
> redesign or suggest ways to work around the current design.
>
> Do not archive
>
> James #40400 Countersinking the HS spars
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
> Bruch Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 7:27 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Anyone on this list that built a slider RV6, 7 or 9 of past will
> recall exactly the same issues. In fact, a very large majority of
> anyone who put anything other than 2 instruments in their panel had
> to modify those ribs. The design is nearly identical, and the issue
> is nearly identical. It's been pretty common practice for quite a
> number of years now to modify those ribs FORWARD of the sub panel
> (not behind) to accomodate a variety of instruments - NOT just glass,
> which brings up the second subject...the sub panel itself. Give the
> depth of many radios, transponders, etc... sometimes people have to
> hack holes in the sub-panel as well. No nearly as big of a deal in
> the -10 because of the room, but the 3 panel ribs have the same issue
> the rest of the fleet has had for years. Anyone who put a radio
> stack in the center of the panel usually had to gently "modify" for
> that reason as well.
>
> Standard practice has pretty much become to do nearly exactly what
> Tim O did (or variation thereof). Van's may not openly endorse such
> practices, but that's what's happened over the years. If you build a
> panel like Van's does with nothing in it, it's not a problem, but the
> other 99% of us that put more than 4 gauges in the panel will end up
> dealing with it sooner or later in some form or another.
>
> Not saying any way is better than another to do the mods, but from a
> "strength" standpoint, Tim's ribs probably ended up stronger than the
> original, as did many who modified them in similar ways.
>
> Anyway, just my 2 cents as usual!
>
> Cheers, Stein
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W.
> Cox Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:49 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> "Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib
> subassembly OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward)
> Fuselage Rib is not allowed." There is no mention of the portion
> AFT of said components.
>
> I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft
> portions on F-1044 Center Subassembly towards the PIC at
> F-1003C-Left, Center and Right from F-1068B Center going AFT on
> F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT on F- 1045 Right would be
> reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's modification is within the
> scope of current written instructions on Page 41-2 dated July 21,
> 2004. Good news for pursuit of 21st Century instruments.
>
> I must still be missing something.
>
> On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue
> room for Chelton, BMA, GRapids or other glass components while
> keeping the music "On Key". It is a great discussion point and
> demonstrates the value of this forum.
>
>
> John - $00.02
>
> ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:06 PM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
>
> Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to
> remove any material from any of these three ribs . . .
>
> TDT
>
>
> ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox Sent:
> Mon 6/13/2005 8:40 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
> RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod Niko, your illustration drives home the
> point and is most appreciated. However, your illustration shows an
> actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent and
> separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends into this (diagonal
> curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease
> strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which were
> effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There must
> be a computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled
> design with comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the
> weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and
> the effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever
> down force on the instrument face.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs
> F-1045-L & R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the
> instrument panel and sunscreen to give the widest range of
> ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety equipment. It
> creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's stuff so
> stylishly without engineering compromise.
>
> John
>
> ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos
> Napoli Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:42 PM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
>
> Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however,
> unless I knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to
> replace the original strength.
>
> Niko 40188
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 53
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
My data shows that Greg had his graphic artist carefully remove the
telltale N number from 5221K to protect the loyal owner of that green
machine down in Texas. What say you Greg? Tim can tell it was the real
photo not a variant cause of the lighting.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Tell me that's photoshop, not real!!!!!! Around the prop I think
I can tell it was altered....but man that's a good job! Even
has the right lighting effects!
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 54
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|
| Subject: | RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
....Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a great
stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the Sorcerer...
which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
know how nice it would be...or necessary.. . . .
I talked to peter at Direct2Avionics regarding their Chelton SV system. I am
definitely intrigued by their EFIS system especially the synthetic vision,
TSO grade SW and significantly higher resolution display (GRT is only 240
lines horizontal and does not
Here are some the answers I got regarding their system (in my words not
Direct2Avionics)-
Q:Can the Chelton take the SL30 glideslope and convert it into VNAV guidance
for the GPS?
A:Currently their system does not support this functionality although you
can get VNAV guidance via a GPS overlay or synthetic approach. So while the
Chelton may give vertical guidance for a approach, it is not based on the
glideslope. Peter at Direct2 said that it could be possible in a future SW
release.
-If and when the SW upgrade is provided, the Sorcerer A/P is probably
the only way to get a true couple precision approach. I am not sure if a
"synthetic" approach is as good a real ILS. Probably don't want to find out
when breaking out at minimums (not that I ever do that on purpose anyway).
Q:What about about SW updates for the Chelton?
A:Chelton uses Jepp data for the database. Cost is slightly higher than
Garmin and uses smartmedia cards programmed on your PC. Firmware upgrades
are free as long as they do not require new HDW.
-GRT is free but requires a IFR GPS that requires an update assuming you
want to fly GPS approaches. Probably a wash.
Q: Can the Chelton drive a GPS or MFD (i.e. drive an MX20 or program the
flight plan of a 430) or can a IFR GPS drive the Chelton?
A: No, the Chelton is a self contained FMS and uses its own GPS.
-This puts a single screen Chelton w/IFR GPS out the running for a lower
cost EFIS solution for IFR.
Q: Is the EIS included in the system?
A: The Chelton includes an Airdata module that is essentially a EIS minus
the engine monitor features.
-Need to add the cost of an engine monitor when comparing to GRT
Q: What is the difference between the FAA approved SW and the experimental
SW?
A: The FAA approved SW does not include among other things the enhanced 3D
terrain, WSI integration, and enhanced VNAV support.
-Probably no big deal since the important parts of the code are likely
isolated branches.
Robin Wessel
RV-10, wings and fuse
Tigard, OR
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
Ha indeed i almost did that also , som a friend of mine was helping me that
day and said i was putting them togeather the wrong way !! (saved me )
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> If anyone else got confused by this, let me know so I don't
> feel like such a moron....
>
> So, I assembled my rudder pedals, and riveted them nicely.
> primed in between the pedal and doubler, and decided I
> wanted nice shiny silver pedals. So, I only painted the
> "back" side. Which side is the back??? Well, of course,
> the rudder pedal with it's raised edges will cup your shoe
> of course, right? NOT!! Tonight I went to actually
> bolt in those pedals. I found that things weren't looking
> quite right per-plans. I thought perhaps the plans were
> off....until I looked at Randy's photos (worth a million
> bucks if you ask me). Sure as shinola those pedals go
> in so that they do not cup your feet....the concave side
> goes away from your foot. The thing that really confused
> it is that they show the doubler riveted onto what
> seemed to be the "back" side (really the front). So, my
> nice round-head rivets were on the back of the pedal in
> reality, and my foot would go on the shop head. Randy
> didn't rivet his per plans, from what I can tell. He put
> the doubler on the concave side of the pedal. This gives
> a smoother looking pedal since it doesn't have that ridge
> around the doubler in view. I see no issue with this.
> So, I drilled out each one of those rivets, and now I have
> to rivet them and paint them before I continue again...and
> they won't be that shiny silver anymore, but will have to
> match my interior paint.
>
> Oh well. Just thought I'd bring it up so that future
> builders don't have to make that mistake.
>
> Am I the only one?
> Tim
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
I can certainly see the value in HITS (highway in the sky), but I can't get really
excited about the synthetic terrain, unless I'm trying to drop a bomb on a
SAM site on the other side of a ridge . . .
If you're flying IFR, and you keep it in the HITS pathway, then you are ipso facto
clear of terrain. And if you do wander off, a "flat" terrain depiction (TAWS-like)
does just as well or better at showing you where you are and where you
need to not be . . .
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robin Wessel
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
....Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a great
stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the Sorcerer...
which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
know how nice it would be...or necessary.. . . .
I talked to peter at Direct2Avionics regarding their Chelton SV system. I am definitely
intrigued by their EFIS system especially the synthetic vision, TSO grade
SW and significantly higher resolution display (GRT is only 240 lines horizontal
and does not
Here are some the answers I got regarding their system (in my words not Direct2Avionics)-
Q:Can the Chelton take the SL30 glideslope and convert it into VNAV guidance for
the GPS?
A:Currently their system does not support this functionality although you can get
VNAV guidance via a GPS overlay or synthetic approach. So while the Chelton
may give vertical guidance for a approach, it is not based on the glideslope.
Peter at Direct2 said that it could be possible in a future SW release.
-If and when the SW upgrade is provided, the Sorcerer A/P is probably the
only way to get a true couple precision approach. I am not sure if a "synthetic"
approach is as good a real ILS. Probably don't want to find out when breaking
out at minimums (not that I ever do that on purpose anyway).
Q:What about about SW updates for the Chelton?
A:Chelton uses Jepp data for the database. Cost is slightly higher than Garmin
and uses smartmedia cards programmed on your PC. Firmware upgrades are free as
long as they do not require new HDW.
-GRT is free but requires a IFR GPS that requires an update assuming you want
to fly GPS approaches. Probably a wash.
Q: Can the Chelton drive a GPS or MFD (i.e. drive an MX20 or program the flight
plan of a 430) or can a IFR GPS drive the Chelton?
A: No, the Chelton is a self contained FMS and uses its own GPS.
-This puts a single screen Chelton w/IFR GPS out the running for a lower cost
EFIS solution for IFR.
Q: Is the EIS included in the system?
A: The Chelton includes an Airdata module that is essentially a EIS minus the engine
monitor features.
-Need to add the cost of an engine monitor when comparing to GRT
Q: What is the difference between the FAA approved SW and the experimental SW?
A: The FAA approved SW does not include among other things the enhanced 3D terrain,
WSI integration, and enhanced VNAV support.
-Probably no big deal since the important parts of the code are likely isolated
branches.
Robin Wessel
RV-10, wings and fuse
Tigard, OR
Message 57
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| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
What can I say? I've got a bunch of sets of vinyl overlays so I can
change the scheme to suit my mood. It's part of my pre-flight to pick
the scheme-du-jour;-)
Greg
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> My data shows that Greg had his graphic artist carefully
> remove the telltale N number from 5221K to protect the loyal
> owner of that green machine down in Texas. What say you
> Greg? Tim can tell it was the real photo not a variant cause
> of the lighting.
>
> John
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Tell me that's photoshop, not real!!!!!! Around the prop I
> think I can tell it was altered....but man that's a good job!
> Even has the right lighting effects!
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 58
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|
| Subject: | Re: Panel Rib Mod |
James Ochs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
>
> I know it would be non-trivial, and I haven't really looked at how that area
> goes together (still working on my HS) but maybe one way to deal with it is
> to build some sort of truss, like with aluminum tubing or with I beams or
> something other than the ribs, so that you could get the same or better
> strength and use up less real estate.
>
When you get there, you'll see that this above idea although good
structural thinking, is probably way overkill.
> What are those ribs actually supporting? Just the glare shield and
> instruments? Or are they taking some of the loading from the canopy /
> firewall?
Basically just the glareshield and instruments, and even there, it's
not really supporting it as much as it is acting as a rib to keep
the top of the glareshield formed properly. The canopy loads are
through the fiberglass areas on the sides of the windshields, and
the metal bar to the top of the canopy, through the center rib,
not these outer ones. I attached probably the crappiest drawing
I've ever done on a PC to show you the side view of some other
things that are all tied in on this. The panen itself helps
support the rib. The lower subpanel under the panel helps
support the panel. The skin itself will provide a lot of support
for the panel Actually, you could probably mount that panel without
any of the ribs, only the skin and the lower subpanel, and you'd
probably have plenty of support for the panel itself until
something pretty catastrophic happened....something that would
crush the entire top of the canopy.
I don't buy the "all modifications should be approved by Van's"
thing. While I even agree with them on powerplant logic for the
most part, I think that they are not very likely to approve
much of anything that they would be predisposed against
in the first place. How many times do we have to hear
that people don't need all those instruments.... This whole
mod is actually so insignificant from what I can see that
it's just not worth lots of time and effort to try to
systematically prove it. That would be like trying to prove
that the RV-10 is capable of 8 G's.....sure, it might be,
by why do I care if my entire flying time in it will be
less than 3. Or, consider that I'm not putting a 5 point
harness in the rear seat, but going to do a 4 point instead.
How can I prove that a 4 will handle a 15 G crash with a 250lb
man. Sure, it's mathematically do-able, but is it seriously
something I care to pursue? And what if it only handled 12 G's?
Again, I'm not suggesting anyone do this mod, or use anything
I say about it. Just look at the pretty pictures and when you
get to that stage yourself, think about what you feel is reasonable.
If you feel you should call Van's for approval, go ahead
and do it, and please post the response to the list. I myself
am just very happy with how this turned out, and even if I
could go back tomorrow and add structure here and there and
make it twice as strong, for as strong as it is now, I don't
see the point. Like I said, it seems much stronger than
the original.
.jpg below
Tim
do not archive
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I'm BCC'in Josh and Direct2Avionics on this one so that he can
follow the questions and clarify if possible. I'll report back
what he says. My comments are inline.
<see below>
Robin Wessel wrote:
> ....Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a
> great
>
> stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
>
> the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
>
> because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
>
> GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
>
> get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the
> Sorcerer...
>
> which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
>
> list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
>
> the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
>
>
> I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
>
>
> know how nice it would be...or necessary.. . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> I talked to peter at Direct2Avionics regarding their Chelton SV
> system. I am definitely intrigued by their EFIS system especially the
> synthetic vision, TSO grade SW and significantly higher resolution
> display (GRT is only 240 lines horizontal and does not
>
>
>
> Here are some the answers I got regarding their system (in my words
> not Direct2Avionics)-
>
>
>
> Q:Can the Chelton take the SL30 glideslope and convert it into VNAV
> guidance for the GPS?
>
>
>
> A:Currently their system does not support this functionality although
> you can get VNAV guidance via a GPS overlay or synthetic approach.
> So while the Chelton may give vertical guidance for a approach, it is
> not based on the glideslope. Peter at Direct2 said that it could be
> possible in a future SW release.
>
>
Hold the phone.... Why are you referring to "into VNAV guidance
for the GPS"? Where does this come into play?? I'm not concerned
if it can take ILS glideslope data and use it for a GPS approach.
I want it to take the ILS glideslope and display it as a pair
of needles. That it will do. What it won't do is let you
fly a non-GPS overlaid approach, using the HITS boxes. i.e.
when you fly an ILS, you need to use the needles, not the
boxes. Is this your understanding, or what am I missing?
>
> -If and when the SW upgrade is provided, the Sorcerer A/P is
> probably the only way to get a true couple precision approach. I am
> not sure if a "synthetic" approach is as good a real ILS. Probably
> don't want to find out when breaking out at minimums (not that I ever
> do that on purpose anyway).
>
>
Precision approach meaning GPS WAAS, or ILS? It should be able
to do an ILS right now, with the Digiflight II VSGV. If this isn't
true, I'd sure like to hear where I was mistaken from what was
said previously.
>
> Q:What about about SW updates for the Chelton?
>
>
>
> A:Chelton uses Jepp data for the database. Cost is slightly higher
> than Garmin and uses smartmedia cards programmed on your PC. Firmware
> upgrades are free as long as they do not require new HDW.
>
>
>
> -GRT is free but requires a IFR GPS that requires an update assuming
> you want to fly GPS approaches. Probably a wash.
>
>
Correct there. The Chelton system will actually run you quite a bit
more money for updates than, say, a GNS-480. The thing is, you're
getting terrain and nav data updates for a more sophisticated
system.
>
> Q: Can the Chelton drive a GPS or MFD (i.e. drive an MX20 or program
> the flight plan of a 430) or can a IFR GPS drive the Chelton?
>
> A: No, the Chelton is a self contained FMS and uses its own GPS.
>
>
Accurate as to what I was told. The only real radios it interoperates
with from a "programming" standpoint are the SL-30 and SL-40.
Why would you want to program your flight plan in the 430 though,
when the chelton has it's own flight planning system in it.
If you own a Chelton, you'll probably do it there anyway.
As for the GPS driving the Chelton, I am not sure how to put this
in an understandable way, but I believe the GNS480 and FreeFlight
GPS can provide the necessary legal precision GPS data to the
Chelton to allow you to fly your WAAS approach. If this
is not true, then again, I would like to clarify where this
does not fit with what I was told previously. If this is not
true, it would make no sense to even add the GNS480 thinking
you get WAAS legal capability in the system...which doesn't
jibe with what was told to me earlier. But yes, it
does have it's own GPS.
>
> -This puts a single screen Chelton w/IFR GPS out the running for a
> lower cost EFIS solution for IFR.
>
Lets see if i get a respons to the point directly above this one.
>
>
> Q: Is the EIS included in the system?
>
>
>
> A: The Chelton includes an Airdata module that is essentially a EIS
> minus the engine monitor features.
>
>
>
> -Need to add the cost of an engine monitor when comparing to GRT
>
Correct, you get the GRT EIS, sold as a unit for use with the
Chelton, so you get all the necessary programming and probes to
make it all work. It's the same EIS basically that the GRT uses.
And, as a plug for Rob, he says by OSH 2005 he will have his
interface ready for interoperability with the Chelton too.
>
>
> Q: What is the difference between the FAA approved SW and the
> experimental SW?
>
>
>
> A: The FAA approved SW does not include among other things the
> enhanced 3D terrain, WSI integration, and enhanced VNAV support.
>
>
>
> -Probably no big deal since the important parts of the code are
> likely isolated branches.
>
>
Probably easier to test some of those add-ons in a non-certified
version...makes sense. I'm sure they'll show up on all models
eventually.
Thanks for bringing this thread back Robin. You bring up some
good points and concerns that are a little scary considering
you got your info from the same company I did. Now I'd like to
get further clarification so that we can know the 100% answer.
Josh, can you drop me a line after you read this?
Tim
>
>
>
> Robin Wessel
>
> RV-10, wings and fuse
>
> Tigard, OR
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu" <wvu@mail.ameritel.net>
Just checked the instructions and they show the doublers on the same side as
the master cylinders. A good idea to put them behind the brake pedals so
that your feet make contact with the pedals and not the doublers. I think
it's cosmetic and I'm leaving them because they're shiny!
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
>
> Ha indeed i almost did that also , som a friend of mine was helping me
that
> day and said i was putting them togeather the wrong way !! (saved me )
>
> Brian B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: "RV10" <RV10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 7:41 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> > If anyone else got confused by this, let me know so I don't
> > feel like such a moron....
> >
> > So, I assembled my rudder pedals, and riveted them nicely.
> > primed in between the pedal and doubler, and decided I
> > wanted nice shiny silver pedals. So, I only painted the
> > "back" side. Which side is the back??? Well, of course,
> > the rudder pedal with it's raised edges will cup your shoe
> > of course, right? NOT!! Tonight I went to actually
> > bolt in those pedals. I found that things weren't looking
> > quite right per-plans. I thought perhaps the plans were
> > off....until I looked at Randy's photos (worth a million
> > bucks if you ask me). Sure as shinola those pedals go
> > in so that they do not cup your feet....the concave side
> > goes away from your foot. The thing that really confused
> > it is that they show the doubler riveted onto what
> > seemed to be the "back" side (really the front). So, my
> > nice round-head rivets were on the back of the pedal in
> > reality, and my foot would go on the shop head. Randy
> > didn't rivet his per plans, from what I can tell. He put
> > the doubler on the concave side of the pedal. This gives
> > a smoother looking pedal since it doesn't have that ridge
> > around the doubler in view. I see no issue with this.
> > So, I drilled out each one of those rivets, and now I have
> > to rivet them and paint them before I continue again...and
> > they won't be that shiny silver anymore, but will have to
> > match my interior paint.
> >
> > Oh well. Just thought I'd bring it up so that future
> > builders don't have to make that mistake.
> >
> > Am I the only one?
> > Tim
> > --
> > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> > Current project: Fuselage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
Hold the phone.... Why are you referring to "into VNAV guidance
for the GPS"? Where does this come into play?? I'm not concerned
if it can take ILS glideslope data and use it for a GPS approach.
I want it to take the ILS glideslope and display it as a pair
of needles. That it will do. What it won't do is let you
fly a non-GPS overlaid approach, using the HITS boxes. i.e.
when you fly an ILS, you need to use the needles, not the
boxes. Is this your understanding, or what am I missing?
Tim-
Sorry if I was not clear in my comments about the VNAV guidance with the
Chelton. What I should have said is "VNAV guidance for the A/P." As you
know, the Digiflight A/P can only steer based on NMEA and ARINC signals not
analog +/-150mV signals. I was really hoping that the Chelton would convert
the SL30 glideslope data coming in digitally and convert it into VNAV
commands for the Digiflight. This would eliminate the need for the expensive
Sorcerer in order to get a true coupled ILS. As a credit to Peter at
Direct2avioncs, he felt that adding this capability would be something to
consider. Hopefully by the time I need to plunk down the cash, this
capability will be included.
robin
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